Premades ruin PvP

[SentinalMasterWW]

Last night played a Quesh Huttball against a premade, 2 Slingers running Saboteur both running the meme tactical. They had Tanks, and Stealthers. As soon as you spawn in and run out you just get ganged up on. Everyone on my team agreed that we'll just sit in our endzone kill anyone that comes by, but we basically stopped caring and let them win the match. 

The Premade called us out for it saying were losers and other insults. 

TBH, I don't blame my team, I told them don't go out in the map and get farmed by sweats. Don't feed the Premade's Egos, If they want to # farm, were just going to waste their team and not give them any satisfaction. 

This right here is the heart of why Solo Q's detest Premades, they exist to farm kills and generally ruin the fun for the people who Q solos. It's also why I stopped Qing Arena, too many premades nowadays as well.  

I think most solos would gladly wait longer Q times for PVP if It meant that Premade's would have to be grouped against other premades, or they would have to Q for a seperate Group Warzone and Arenas.  

2 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

That’s what the people arguing for premades are afraid of. 

For all their bluster about forming your own premade to counter them to the argument that this is an MMO & get some friends, their whole argument comes down to this one basic principle. They are scared it won’t pop.

If you split premades into a seperate queue, that premade queue might never pop or the pop would be a lot slower than the solo queue. Which means they get less games. It doesn’t matter wether  the system is fair or not, it’s about them not getting enough games as premade players.

Never forget that most premades aren’t up to fighting other organised premades. And human competitive nature is to always try & have an advantage. Which means there are people who premade with the main intention to mostly play against pugs so they have an advantage. 

If these premade players could only play other premades to make it more fair, they would stop premading & only play solos. That’s the part they won’t say out loud because it sinks their whole premade argument of getting friends & superior attitude of “git gud”.

I don’t really even need to argue this is the case because deep down we all know this is the real reason they don’t want seperate queues. 

But we also know there are those who will attack me for saying these quiet parts out loud. So I will provide a demonstrated example of why I’m right.

You only need to look at the history of the game. Before arena we had 8 man premades that could only play other premades. This queue died off quickly as soon as the “Alpha teams” joined the queue. It wasn’t as popular as BioWare planned. Yes there were some servers & some teams that played this exclusively. But eventually it was pulled from the game in favour of arena because of reasons (BioWare pvp mistake 1).

BioWare replaced it with ranked Arena split into 2 queues, Premade & solo because they knew it wasn’t fair to put premades against pugs in a competitive environment. But they ran into the same problem that as soon the “Alpha teams” joined the queue, they would dominate it all the time. Leaving only a couple of teams per server to play this format regularly. The majority of ranked players moved to solo ranked so they still had a chance of winning. Group Ranked pretty much died & never came back strong unless there were great rewards to play it. And even then, most of them just wintraded to get the rewards.

Most people arguing for premades to play solo pugs don’t want fair matches or even the perception of fair matches. They want an advantage to win & flex their superior “skillz” so they can tell others to “git gud” (the toxic attitude I mentioned in my earlier post).

Of course there are some who just want to play with their friends in a group socially. But usually these guys can’t beat dedicated premade players. So they need pugs to play against or they’d never win. 

The bottom line is premade players know they have an unfair advantage over pugs. Any that say they don’t are lying for their own benefit. Wether it’s so they can get faster pops or wether it’s to dominate other players. At the end of the day, they are scared a seperate premade queue will die because the best players always congregate together to form the best teams to dominate the queue. 

This entire post right here is a Perfect Shutdown argument for any in favor of saying Premades should stay in the game.

[ZUHFB]

I 100% agree, there aren't any premades left were its playing with friends. The current premades on DM premade to win, not to get faster weeklies, not to get faster achievements, they just do it because they can't take any L's. It's not good for the game.

It is an MMO and you should be able to play with friends, but maybe not in pvp as long as there aren't seperated queues, matching premades against each other will not help one bit, it has to be seperate queues or removal to make pvp fun again. I am not playing a game I know I lose in spawn, just so someone can support their fragile ego. As I said, I would love to fight some people of those premades in a 4v4 with 3 randoms on each side because its fun, its a game worth playing. Me + random vs. 4 tryhards is not a match worth playing, I just leave. I am in no favor of even giving them the impression that they have fair games because its 4v4.

Edited January 21, 2023 by ZUHFB

[DeannaVoyager]

7 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

That’s what the people arguing for premades are afraid of. 

For all their bluster about forming your own premade to counter them to the argument that this is an MMO & get some friends, their whole argument comes down to this one basic principle. They are scared it won’t pop.

If you split premades into a seperate queue, that premade queue might never pop or the pop would be a lot slower than the solo queue. Which means they get less games. It doesn’t matter wether  the system is fair or not, it’s about them not getting enough games as premade players.

Never forget that most premades aren’t up to fighting other organised premades. And human competitive nature is to always try & have an advantage. Which means there are people who premade with the main intention to mostly play against pugs so they have an advantage. 

If these premade players could only play other premades to make it more fair, they would stop premading & only play solos. That’s the part they won’t say out loud because it sinks their whole premade argument of getting friends & superior attitude of “git gud”.

I don’t really even need to argue this is the case because deep down we all know this is the real reason they don’t want seperate queues. 

But we also know there are those who will attack me for saying these quiet parts out loud. So I will provide a demonstrated example of why I’m right.

You only need to look at the history of the game. Before arena we had 8 man premades that could only play other premades. This queue died off quickly as soon as the “Alpha teams” joined the queue. It wasn’t as popular as BioWare planned. Yes there were some servers & some teams that played this exclusively. But eventually it was pulled from the game in favour of arena because of reasons (BioWare pvp mistake 1).

BioWare replaced it with ranked Arena split into 2 queues, Premade & solo because they knew it wasn’t fair to put premades against pugs in a competitive environment. But they ran into the same problem that as soon the “Alpha teams” joined the queue, they would dominate it all the time. Leaving only a couple of teams per server to play this format regularly. The majority of ranked players moved to solo ranked so they still had a chance of winning. Group Ranked pretty much died & never came back strong unless there were great rewards to play it. And even then, most of them just wintraded to get the rewards.

Most people arguing for premades to play solo pugs don’t want fair matches or even the perception of fair matches. They want an advantage to win & flex their superior “skillz” so they can tell others to “git gud” (the toxic attitude I mentioned in my earlier post).

Of course there are some who just want to play with their friends in a group socially. But usually these guys can’t beat dedicated premade players. So they need pugs to play against or they’d never win. 

The bottom line is premade players know they have an unfair advantage over pugs. Any that say they don’t are lying for their own benefit. Wether it’s so they can get faster pops or wether it’s to dominate other players. At the end of the day, they are scared a seperate premade queue will die because the best players always congregate together to form the best teams to dominate the queue. 

 

I've reacted to too many posts so I have to quote instead. Thank you for posting this. It's a very accurate analysis of the situation and should give the devs something to think about. 

 

 

[Nee-Elder]

7 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

But we know the Devs don’t read the forums or we wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with

They don't ?   hmm... 

• Lead Dev-->  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/926403-ui-problems-after-72/?do=findComment&comment=9733282 
• Dev -->  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/927276-pvp-map-and-medals-feedback/  
• Dev -->  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/927292-feedback-request-galactic-season-4-and-into-the-future/  
• Dev proxy-->  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/926879-pvp-challenges-for-skirmish-and-guild-challenge-no-longer-functioning-bug-possibly-as-of-72-challenge-can-be-issued-queue-pops-but-nothing-happens-when-you-click-enter/?do=findComment&comment=9737454 
• Dev--> https://forums.swtor.com/topic/926631-pvp-seasons-level-points-stuff/?do=findComment&comment=9734720  
• Dev-->  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/926563-bioware-we-need-to-talk-about-warzone-medals/?do=findComment&comment=9734073 
• Lead Dev again--> https://forums.swtor.com/topic/926287-follow-ups-on-pvp-in-72/

...  Care to revise your inaccurate statement now?

What you should've said was: They don't post enough.

But it would seem  now that a certain bug was not only personally addressed to YOU, but also ostensibly resolved for you & select few edge-cases,  you're just right back to your same ole hyperbolic melodramatic tricks, Trixx.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Nee-Elder

[Anyaka_Jedi]

18 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

They don't ?   hmm... 

• Lead Dev-->  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/926403-ui-problems-after-72/?do=findComment&comment=9733282 
• Dev -->  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/927276-pvp-map-and-medals-feedback/  
• Dev -->  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/927292-feedback-request-galactic-season-4-and-into-the-future/  
• Dev proxy-->  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/926879-pvp-challenges-for-skirmish-and-guild-challenge-no-longer-functioning-bug-possibly-as-of-72-challenge-can-be-issued-queue-pops-but-nothing-happens-when-you-click-enter/?do=findComment&comment=9737454 
• Dev--> https://forums.swtor.com/topic/926631-pvp-seasons-level-points-stuff/?do=findComment&comment=9734720  
• Dev-->  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/926563-bioware-we-need-to-talk-about-warzone-medals/?do=findComment&comment=9734073 
• Lead Dev again--> https://forums.swtor.com/topic/926287-follow-ups-on-pvp-in-72/

...  Care to revise your innaccurate statement now?

What you should've said was: They don't post enough.

But it would seem  now that a certain bug was not only personally addressed to YOU, but also ostensibly resolved for you & select few edge-cases,  you're just right back to your same ole hyperbolic melodramatic tricks, Trixx.

now now, how dare u be reasonable and post links to the contrary. The unsub threat will most likely be used if you're not careful...

[ferreyrolajedi]

Solo q should go against solo q.

Premades ( i don´t care if its you and youre friends) should go against othre premades.

Otherwise its not a fair fight. 

Right now im qing solo and i keap going agaist a double premade with 2 tanks, 2heals, and top dps.  The word Farming doesnt come close. 

[Samcuu]

20 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

For all their bluster about forming your own premade to counter them to the argument that this is an MMO & get some friends, their whole argument comes down to this one basic principle. They are scared it won’t pop.

It's true, there really aren't that many premades queueing that often so yeah the pop would be dead, most ppl play swtor casually, and organizing an 8 v 8 is hard. Ppl queue premades with far less than 8 ppl a majority of the time. So really zero reason for bioware to implement an 8 v 8 premade queue. They eliminated the 8 v 8 ranked ranked queue cuz less than 1% of the population (at the time was probably a lot bigger than now) was playing the game mode. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Samcuu

[Samcuu]

20 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Never forget that most premades aren’t up to fighting other organised premades. And human competitive nature is to always try & have an advantage. Which means there are people who premade with the main intention to mostly play against pugs so they have an advantage. 

Yeah ur right and nobody is hiding this lol. It's called star wars not Star Must Have a Fair Fight. If the goal is to win a match why not be smart and use all the tools like picking ur own team, and getting in voice comms? I mean it's not brain surgery lmaooo

 

20 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

If these premade players could only play other premades to make it more fair, they would stop premading & only play solos. That’s the part they won’t say out loud because it sinks their whole premade argument of getting friends & superior attitude of “git gud”.

Again nobody is denying this. If there's an extremely stacked team then yeah ur gonna lose. In season 9 I played granked arenas and there were a lot of great matches. Ya win some ya lose some. When a team that's just extremely good queues and farms the queue then u just log. It is what it is. Of course this could be remedied if there were cross sever queues because then in theory you should have a lot of matches going on at once. 8 v 8 is completely different tho because you can respawn and continue to help ur team, plus the other many variables that can happen in an objective match as opposed to a 4 v 4 death match. Another issue in 4 v 4s which lead to the ultimate stacked team is that in that type of match the class imbalances are amplified. So there's a very good team probably playing a meta comp and its very difficult to win if ur team isn't on the same skill level, don't play as well as a coordinated team, or aren't playing the OP classes. In 8 v 8s there are roles for many classes even if they aren't an s tier class. 

 

[Samcuu]

21 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Most people arguing for premades to play solo pugs don’t want fair matches or even the perception of fair matches. They want an advantage to win & flex their superior “skillz” so they can tell others to “git gud” (the toxic attitude I mentioned in my earlier post).

Again this is completely true in fact I've seen a bunch of premade players say in this and other threads how much they enjoy crushing bads in 8s. Again tho, u don't have to cry to the devs and ask them to take away the same advantages u can have as well. In fact it's entirely up to you, you have all the same tools these players have to queue against them and beat them. Trust me many of the premades u see running around are very beatable. There's a very small amount of premades that you'll never beat. An 8 man premade with a bunch of former ranked players u probably won't beat no matter at you do, but they aren't in queue 24/7. 

And to ur final point. They don't have an unfair advantage. If you make the decision to jump solo into a game mode where u know ppl are teaming up and in voice comms ect then that's on you. It's not like bioware is making ppl pay to premade or something. The same advantages are available to you, your decision to take advantage of them or not. Simple tbh. 

 

 

[ZUHFB]

34 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

In fact it's entirely up to you, you have all the same tools these players have to queue against them and beat them

Ah, and what if I do not like the removed gamemode called teamranked? What if I enjoy solo ranked? What do I do then? 

35 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

If you make the decision to jump solo into a game mode where u know ppl are teaming up and in voice comms ect then that's on you.

Yeah, this is the problem exactly. The only option I have is to not play PvP - thank you, very helpful. 

 

Again, premades can be good and should be allowed I - just - don't - want - to - be - against - them - and - I - will - leave.

[Samcuu]

2 minutes ago, ZUHFB said:

Ah, and what if I do not like the removed gamemode called teamranked? What if I enjoy solo ranked? What do I do then? 

Yeah, this is the problem exactly. The only option I have is to not play PvP - thank you, very helpful. 

 

Again, premades can be good and should be allowed I - just - don't - want - to - be - against - them - and - I - will - leave.

I never said the current system is good. But removing more pvp content isn't the correct solution. My solution is to fix the matchmaking so u can be queued against like minded players. Matchmaking is only gonna work with a decent population queueing tho, so the next fix is cross server queues. If that happens premades will be far less of an issue. 

 

[TrixxieTriss]

57 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

It's true, there really aren't that many premades queueing that often so yeah the pop would be dead, most ppl play swtor casually, and organizing an 8 v 8 is hard. Ppl queue premades with far less than 8 ppl a majority of the time. So really zero reason for bioware to implement an 8 v 8 premade queue. They eliminated the 8 v 8 ranked ranked queue cuz less than 1% of the population (at the time was probably a lot bigger than now) was playing the game mode. 

There was no reason for BioWare to add 8 man premades to the queue to start with. Nobody asked for that. It’s a stupid move & idea. Once again BioWare didn’t listen to what players had actually been discussing for years. Which was to bring back 8v8 ranked, either as premade vs premade or as a solo queue.

And People had also been complaining for just as many years how 4 man premades in 8 man pugs isn’t fair. So instead of BioWare actually understanding the issue, they made it worse for solo pugs. They also refuse to constructively engage in the premade topic & explain their reasoning for not splitting the queue or adding 8 man premades vs pugs.

The obvious solution isn’t to create a dedicated 8v8 premade queue (because that wouldn’t work), but to create a seperate “premade queue” that can have any mix of premades. Wether they are 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3 or 2 man premades. Then the queue makes matches the same as it does now, but solo players aren’t included in the mix. 

Then people who want a solo experience can play with other solo players. The match making system would be less strained doing this & you could have more balanced matches. 

It’s a win-win for everyone except those people who only premade to stomp pugs. 

[TrixxieTriss]

10 minutes ago, ZUHFB said:

Again, premades can be good and should be allowed I - just - don't - want - to - be - against - them - and - I - will - leave.

Agreed. No reasonable person is suggesting they ban premades entirely. Just that they give them their own space to play away from solo players.

[TrixxieTriss]

9 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

I never said the current system is good. But removing more pvp content isn't the correct solution. My solution is to fix the matchmaking so u can be queued against like minded players. Matchmaking is only gonna work with a decent population queueing tho, so the next fix is cross server queues. If that happens premades will be far less of an issue. 

 

BioWare already removed pvp content by eliminating ranked premade 8v8 & both ranked 4v4 formats. Now they are  allowing 8v8 premades to be in pugs. Something that’s never been in the game (ever).

All those decisions were wrong & illogical to do. All of those decisions drove players from the pvp game, the same as adding 8 man premades will also drive players away from pvp. Especially when solo players can’t leave matches anymore to escape situations like that, without getting a lockout 🤦‍♀️

The whole situation is utterly ridiculous. 
They couldn’t get matchmaking to work in 10 years when it was only 4 man premades in the Pug queue & they’ve proved they still can’t. Adding 8 man premades just made it exponentially harder. So I’m not sure how you think they have the skills to improve matchmaking with 8 man premades in the queue. It’s a pipe dream, the same as cross server.

The solution is what I suggested in my previous post. Give solo players a seperate queue & allow premades of any size to have their own queue. 

I’ll go out on a limb & say that I believe the solo queue will be more popular. Not only because it will more fair, but because it will have better matchmaking & competition than the premade queue. 

[Samcuu]

14 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I’ll go out on a limb & say that I believe the solo queue will be more popular. Not only because it will more fair, but because it will have better matchmaking & competition than the premade queue. 

Creating a solo ranked queue was probably the single worst decision the devs have ever made regarding pvp. The point has been made ad nauseum, swtor is an mmo. Mmos are meant to be played in a group with guilds/friends. It's not a single player game. Bioware clearly agrees with this because as u said it was an interesting decision to increase the queue size from 4 to 8. Either they don't know what they are doing (which is possible but not logical) or they are encouraging ppl to join groups/guilds to accomplish pvp goals AS AN ORGANIZED TEAM, as opposed to a bunch of bots running around a match like headless chickens. 

[TrixxieTriss]

Just now, Samcuu said:

Creating a solo ranked queue was probably the single worst decision the devs have ever made regarding pvp. The point has been made ad nauseum, swtor is an mmo. Mmos are meant to be played in a group with guilds/friends. It's not a single player game. Bioware clearly agrees with this because as u said it was an interesting decision to increase the queue size from 4 to 8. Either they don't know what they are doing (which is possible but not logical) or they are encouraging ppl to join groups/guilds to accomplish pvp goals AS AN ORGANIZED TEAM, as opposed to a bunch of bots running around a match like headless chickens. 

See that’s where I think you’re wrong.

The idea that you need to form a group in an MMO when you have a queue system is nonsensical.

By definition you are playing with other people in that queue, so you are already fulfilling the MMO definition. Premade grouping should obviously be an option always, but not the default.

Nearly every competitive pvp game has the option for both, but not many put the 2 together in the same queue like swtor does.

And the games that do successfully combine the 2 modes in one queue, have their own built in microphone communication system with in the game for pugs to use.

I think BioWares biggest mistake with ranked was not trialing a legit 8v8 premade ranked season along side a solo 8v8 ranked system.

There was a lot of interest in 8v8 ranked. But BioWare decided to go with a death match format for reasons we can only speculate on. That decision caused a large amount of players interested objective ranked pvp to leave the game entirely. 

That was BioWares first massive pvp mistake in swtor. 

[Weswhitebore]

4 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

There was no reason for BioWare to add 8 man premades to the queue to start with. Nobody asked for that. It’s a stupid move & idea. Once again BioWare didn’t listen to what players had actually been discussing for years.

If anyone did ask for this, raise your hands or link the posts specifically asking for this.

 

4 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

The obvious solution isn’t to create a dedicated 8v8 premade queue (because that wouldn’t work), but to create a seperate “premade queue” that can have any mix of premades. Wether they are 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3 or 2 man premades. Then the queue makes matches the same as it does now, but solo players aren’t included in the mix. 

Agree, agree, I stated that somewhere on this forum but not sure if it was this post or not.

 

3 hours ago, Samcuu said:

Creating a solo ranked queue was probably the single worst decision the devs have ever made regarding pvp.

Disagree. The worst decision they ever made towards pvp dealing with ranked was when they stopped moderating it for awhile and allowed win trading/ toxicity to run around. Honestly, the removal of Expertise might be one of them as well. Most people seemingly enjoy Solo Ranked and the experiences they had while playing, well....those who actually played Solo ranked and sticked around to play, not the ones who cried wolf. I think most people's gripe was they disliked how their solo rating is not necessarily reflective of their personal performance, but their group's performance. Sure how that individual played had a massive role in it but it is still a team mode, which actually still fits your MMO speak, they are just being rated on an individual level.

 

As far as match making, the group compositions in ranked matches have been pretty even as far as role distribution. However, the rating composition has not been. Solo Ranked has it's problems but it was still a nice thing for what it was.

 

3 hours ago, Samcuu said:

Mmos are meant to be played in a group with guilds/friends. It's not a single player game

They had Team Ranked, but we already know what happened with Team Ranked, it's been said enough in this thread, no need to beat a dead horse.

 

3 hours ago, Samcuu said:

Either they don't know what they are doing (which is possible but not logical)

They in part know what they're doing, now if they understand the impact/ perception of what they are doing from the eyes of people who actually play the game is a different story.

 

3 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

There was a lot of interest in 8v8 ranked. But BioWare decided to go with a death match format for reasons we can only speculate on. That decision caused a large amount of players interested objective ranked pvp to leave the game entirely. 

If I remember correctly, part of how that went down hill is that there would be like 3 established teams or guilds that would come in and crush everyone with a premade system. However, a solo 8 vs 8 ranked system does sound like it would've been a nice objective to follow before Bioware switched to an Arena death match format.

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Weswhitebore said:

If I remember correctly, part of how that went down hill is that there would be like 3 established teams or guilds that would come in and crush everyone with a premade system. However, a solo 8 vs 8 ranked system does sound like it would've been a nice objective to follow before Bioware switched to an Arena death match format.

There were some dedicated guilds & teams on specific servers that specialised in 8 man team ranked. On those servers there were more than 3 or 4 of these groups. 

The issue is they were spread across too many servers. If BioWare had been able to implement cross server queues for each individual region (not cross region), there would have been enough teams. 

I don’t think we even had server transfers then. So they couldn’t even offer players a way to organise themselves onto one server.

And as we know, they never even tried a 8 man ranked solo queue 😞

If the devs were so keen on the arena format, they still could have kept 8 man ranked too & run it along side it 🤷🏻‍♀️

[ZUHFB]

9 hours ago, Samcuu said:

Creating a solo ranked queue was probably the single worst decision the devs have ever made regarding pvp. The point has been made ad nauseum, swtor is an mmo. Mmos are meant to be played in a group with guilds/friends. It's not a single player game.

Neither is solo ranked. Solo ranked just has the aspect of me not knowing if I win or lose before I enter the game which teamranked never offered. Solo ranked was better than teamranked, as can be seen by its higher population. Teamranked was boring. That is all there is to it. I don't want to wait for 3 other players to walk their dogs just so I can enjoy myself a match of PvP that isn't filled with players who walk their dog during the match. I played over 30 teamranked games last season, do you want to know how many times I played against a healer? Zero. Sounds like a really good gamemode! 

All teamranked games are decided in spawn, not all solo ranked games are like this. I also just enjoy the gamble aspect of it. 

And as a matter of fact: All of this doesn't matter, because I just simply don't want to be against a premade REGARDLESS of how my team looks like. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to premade, but I am saying I'm queue dodging premades. I never had to queue dodge in solo ranked... don't understand why I have to start doing it now. 

If you want to premades, play against other premades. Playing against me and then complaining to me on discord how "bad" I am for not trying to win against the meta quad premade with my team of 301 GS arsenal mercs who tank tunnel - AND ACTUALLY KILL THE TANK, like nah - just nah, get the stuff of my screen I don't want anything to do with this. 

I feel like many people don't care if they lose or win, they just don't want to feel like they are losing because the enemy team is a sweaty meta comp of people who can't take an L. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by ZUHFB

[MillerMillerasd]

it's almost like they removed the ranked pvp where the premade would have been playing...

[imthespamman]

47 minutes ago, MillerMillerasd said:

it's almost like they removed the ranked pvp where the premade would have been playing...

You seem kinda obsessed with ranked pvpers, are you ok?

[Samcuu]

7 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

Neither is solo ranked. Solo ranked just has the aspect of me not knowing if I win or lose before I enter the game which teamranked never offered. Solo ranked was better than teamranked, as can be seen by its higher population. Teamranked was boring. That is all there is to it. I don't want to wait for 3 other players to walk their dogs just so I can enjoy myself a match of PvP that isn't filled with players who walk their dog during the match. I played over 30 teamranked games last season, do you want to know how many times I played against a healer? Zero. Sounds like a really good gamemode! 

My reasoning in saying that solo ranked was the worst thing to happen to swtor pvp is because I witnessed the death of pvp guilds and the need for them when 8 v 8 ranked was scrapped in favor of 4 v 4 death matches. The other contributing factor was allowing cross faction queueing. It took a lot of the rivalry out of pub/imp as well which was a motivating factor in guilds and guild groups. Once pvp guilds were gone there was no good place for ppl interested in pvp to turn for advice and be taught how to pvp. 

I personally disliked solo queue because you had little to no effect on ur teammates. I enjoyed 4 v 4 granked better and had a good ranking, and never had a solid team most the of the time. However at least I could choose the ppl on my team. I personally didn't have time to queue dodge throwers in solos ect. At the end of the day everyone has their own play style and it's impossible to make everyone happy. The true culprit of the downfall of pvp which has lead to most of these decisions is a dwindling game population, which let's face it was doomed from day one thanks to the game engine. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Samcuu

[Monhnich]

On 12/19/2022 at 6:15 PM, Screaming_Ziva said:

Been trying to finish 45 medals for the seasonal objective and it is absolutely ridiculous playing PvP against premades.  You see the same 5 or 6 people all moving and working as a team against a group of PUGs that are just all over the place.  I really don't see how Bioware thought the PvP changes would entice more people to play PvP when it's probably going to have the opposite effect.  Nobody wants to walk into WZs or Arenas just to get ganked over and over again.

Before people say "make some PvP friends" or "make your own group", I shouldn't have to.  Separate group and solo queues should have been implemented from the beginning and Bioware refusing to add them won't make PvP better any time soon.

I mean not funny what game allow premades to get away with.  Been playing all weekend and most of the average player that play on weekends are 'Clickers' players who do not know how to key-bind. Assuming those average players only have time to play on weekends...i.e Work, life..etc. .and those premades just abuse those players. I happened to randomly end in one of their teams, and No.. 

Not having any fun playing pvp against players who barely knows how to install the game. Yes they queue for it, but still Why would Devs allow premades to group up against less than average players.  Those premades used discord and play rehearse coordinated attacks against less than average players.  How insane is that???? But is not entirely their fault.  Seen like the game likes to foment such practice and behavior.  I do play other mmo games. Maybe is time to prioritize other game and maybe keep the subscription of this one. 

Easy to tell the current stage of this game When I go on stream and see an abundant of channels of players steaming from the most popular mmo games, but this game only has like 5 - 6 streamers at the very most. 

 

[Weswhitebore]

4 hours ago, MillerMillerasd said:

it's almost like they removed the ranked pvp where the premade would have been playing...

Majority of the premades aren't even ranked players, they're Reg stars, some of them just happen to include Ranked players.  Premades were a thing before Ranked was taken away and now that Bioware has increased and encouraged it, it is even more of a thing after Ranked was taken away. Now the only PVP those players who didn't leave now has is WZs, which majority would want to play with their friends, some of which are also ranked players.

2 hours ago, Samcuu said:

personally disliked solo queue because you had little to no effect on ur teammates.

On the contrary. your "solo" rating as mentioned earlier wasn't reflective nor dependent on your own performance but your team's as well. You very much had an effect on your teammates, which is why people queuing under geared or without any knowledge got told to stop queuing and such, then they run and cry wolf. The only difference between Team Ranked and Solo Ranked was you were queuing up by yourself and the team was put together for you, you didn't pick the team, which means you can have skill gaps since the matchmaking rating system wasn't that good. I was early in my ranked career getting matched against guys like Biggs, E-Girl, and Nikana in my first few matches, knowing full well each of them was a far better player than me, which had an direct negative effect on my teammates and team. Then I got coached up by Biggs and Prum, and it had an massive positive impact on my team.

 

1 minute ago, Monhnich said:

Easy to tell the current stage of this game When I go on stream and see an abundant of channels of players steaming from the most popular mmo games, but this game only has like 5 - 6 streamers at the very most. 

They had more, especially PVP streamers, but then they killed their hopes/ dreams so said streamers left to play other games. Another problem is Bioware doesn't promote their own in-game content. You wanna know what WoW is promoting right now on their official Youtube page?? AWC Dragonflight Cup 1, a PVP event. You know what Bioware/ Swtor hasn't been promoting?? PVP events. Even when some of their biggest PVP streamers got together and did a PVP tournament for the community, Swtor didn't really promote that tournament. If they saw the amount of opportunities and profit they missed/ are missing out on, then they would actually regret their decisions.

[Beyrahl]

Hypothetically.
A pure solo queue would still be pretty much at mercy to good players, not saying that's a bad thing but it's going to be some of those same players you saw in groups. 
I wouldn't say it'd be much more fair it'd just be less stacked, a win for sure, one I think would be nice because people usually just give up the moment some ones better than them and cry wolf premade!!!

Worst thing to come of it would be less and less healers actually playing as it'd truly be a match of whose healing better, there will definitely be head to head matches but usually there is always a disparity premade or not. 
Thankfully though, I don't think tanks would go anywhere as impactful as they are they're still incredibly fun to play. A healer, I can't quite say the same when pugs don't care to peel. 

I think if anything 8man should be removed flat out, 4 man is already unfair against pugs, 8 just complicates it further. When there's other big groups going they will want to face each other, this inevitably fills in solo players into these matches to fill their gaps. I feel bad for those players because they are most likely not up to it. I have played quite a bit of 5mans so far it's nice to just have that one extra person but often times team DPS is in the 60ks meaning literally everything's just dead all the time. The only case it isn't is if there's enough support roles to stop it or another group can stop it. 

I see it this way, do you fill group and never lose to those even larger sorcerer/range premades? Or do you stick to 4-5 which is still already overkill. If pugs were more reliable it'd be different, largest problem with 4man in my experience was that my co group would not want to play while there'd be two groups on the enemy team, mostly leaving it to be a 4v8. It's difficult, I see no solution that'll make everyone happy.

I am for both group and solo queue as I enjoy them both tremendously. 
Really not an easy topic.