Premades ruin PvP

[AwesomeTacoCat]

18 hours ago, winpersec said:

Got like 80% winrate on arenas during the day and I was in queue for 14 hours straight as I felt like I can have a day off every social activity once in a lifetime. There was literally one 3 man premade across the day that mattered.
I just don't understand this thread. Play smarter, pick good targets or heal better. And learn to kite.
You won't need any excuse like premades. It will be only "I sucked this match" or "I carried this match".

First off, the premade problem appears to be far more pronounced in warzones than arenas. I had at least 10 warzones yesterday where the other team had four people in the same pvp guild dominating. It’s blatantly obvious that this is a premade when you see them together for many wzs in a day. And this isn’t a skill gap issue, most of the premades on my server are like mid-grade ranked players - these guys wouldn’t dominate if they solo qued because they aren’t that good. But no matter how good I or other solo q’ers are, it’s just impossible to carry 3-4 completely clueless players when you’re up against a 4 man premade. So the “git gud” argument just holds no water in this case bro. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by AwesomeTacoCat

[Screaming_Ziva]

On 2/4/2023 at 4:32 PM, winpersec said:

Got like 80% winrate on arenas during the day and I was in queue for 14 hours straight as I felt like I can have a day off every social activity once in a lifetime. There was literally one 3 man premade across the day that mattered.
I just don't understand this thread. Play smarter, pick good targets or heal better. And learn to kite.
You won't need any excuse like premades. It will be only "I sucked this match" or "I carried this match".

So because you only saw a single 3 man premade that means the problem doesn't exist?

[winpersec]

20 hours ago, Screaming_Ziva said:

So because you only saw a single 3 man premade that means the problem doesn't exist?

Because I only saw a premade that changed the match outcome once, yes, I think the problem doesn't exist.

[darksidenerd]

On 2/4/2023 at 2:32 PM, winpersec said:

Got like 80% winrate on arenas during the day and I was in queue for 14 hours straight as I felt like I can have a day off every social activity once in a lifetime. There was literally one 3 man premade across the day that mattered.
I just don't understand this thread. Play smarter, pick good targets or heal better. And learn to kite.
You won't need any excuse like premades. It will be only "I sucked this match" or "I carried this match".

Same, I work from home, when the Fiancé is at work I'm in SWTOR wasting my life away doing PvP all day. I don't run into them often. If I do, we either win or lose like any other match, then move on to the next Que lol. I'm not sure why this has become such a large thread. I think people just don't like losing and need to finger point? They're beatable, you just need a smart team.. idk man. blown..up..

 

[TrixxieTriss]

17 minutes ago, darksidenerd said:

Same, I work from home, when the Fiancé is at work I'm in SWTOR wasting my life away doing PvP all day. I don't run into them often. If I do, we either win or lose like any other match, then move on to the next Que lol. I'm not sure why this has become such a large thread. I think people just don't like losing and need to finger point? They're beatable, you just need a smart team.. idk man. blown..up..

 

I think it depends on your server, what queue you choose, what days you play & what time of day. All of those will affect how many premades are in the queue & how often. 
On some servers, it only takes 1 or 2 premades to ruin the pug queue for everyone in it. And that can last for hours at a time. 

If the only time you play is during those hours, you will see those premades constantly because a lot of the queue depopulates. Which means you’ll likely see them every match or ever other match because of low queue numbers. This is emphasised if there is only one premade in the queue & matchmaking has no one to even try & pair them with.

If you don’t play when the premades do, then you’re perception will be different to everyone here who is seeing them. That doesn’t make their experience any less relevant than yours. It just makes it different. Please don’t belittle other peoples bad experiences just because you don’t see it. Try having a little empathy for their situation instead. 

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[ZUHFB]

3 hours ago, winpersec said:

Because I only saw a premade that changed the match outcome once, yes, I think the problem doesn't exist.

does it matter if you feel like this though?

many players have said they just don't like being against one, I think most premades are pretty bad - doesn't mean I like playing against them. Many players share this sentiment - mine is only specific for arenas, but I don't go around saying it doesn't exist in warzones 

[Sappharan]

On 2/7/2023 at 10:16 AM, winpersec said:

Because I only saw a premade that changed the match outcome once, yes, I think the problem doesn't exist.

Solipsistic drivel. 

[Beyrahl]

Here's a perfect example of how 5-7man groups break the queue for solo players.
I was one of potentially 3, I think 2. Players not grouped versus two full 4man groups. 
In no way should this be happening and this isn't the only time it does either. This is a more relaxed version of it as this premade group on my team was slightly bigger. But even if it was smaller (I have experienced this in the past few days, taking up to 19,000 damage per second) go against larger groups. Limiting it back to 4 would fix a lot of issues.
I highly doubt they'll just remove premades altogether but at least limit it back to how it used to be or give solo players the option to not be filled into a mostly premade only game specifically. If you're grouped you should have to deal with this, if you're not you shouldn't have to deal with it in this severe of a case.

Another thing that'd help quite a lot is removing the ability to just decline pops, I know people will say no one ever does that, but I know for a fact people sit there and wait for pops and decline if the person they want to play with / against didn't get one. Or used in reverse where they'll wait till they get a pop and queue. Or just decline the pop if the players they don't want to face get the pop. I hate for this to punish people but in premade groups it's very much so abused to avoid other groups and really manipulates the queue altogether. Another extremely abusive thing that ruins matches before they even start is healers and tanks sitting there just declining pops. An impact of a healer and tank is often times way larger than a DPS so this immediately screws a match from the start if the enemies healer or tank is doing well. This happens not only accidentally but by mistake too, so I totally get it. But sometimes it's used intentionally to grief. This was a thing in solo ranked too.

The system is just too easy to manipulate and abuse. There's really just a flat out lack of things in place to help prevent this.
For example no match will ever be truly equal, so why not invest into making an activatable mercy rule once one team gets too much of a lead? We've got this already implemented if too many leave. Extend it for large leads too. 

[Darias]

Bioware tried to make the game 'feel' more MMO but failed on PvP part.

The problem is , there 2-3 guilds out there who just some of their members done ranked warzones in the past, but that was 10 years ago! New generation of players never experienced intense pvp as was on old pvp servers.

80%+ of pvpers have left the game already more than 5 years, and now some who returned  ruined the pvp all over with full 8 man op teams. Because of that,  the new players who start playing the game disappointed   and left for good.

The fix is to return to 4-man teams. When a pug team or a full 4 man team, faces entire 8-man premade, is not easy to handle the game. Because the  4 team premade will do the job, the pugs will get frustrated and will not que again. The results already is disastrous:

1 Many players stop queing , some already left the game to find elsewhere to play and have fun.

2. The full op teams, discouraged  a large amount of players don't want to pvp anymore

3 Because of some 'genius' who say ' is MMO so group'  I will tell you this :

On old pvp servers  wasn't a problem, because there people chose to pvp and become better. After 6 years the pvp servers wiped out, there no much veteran pvpers anymore. Plus to teach a new player few things , will take a lot time, and few pvp small guilds who already exist, don't have the time to 'teach'. Don't forget,  now the community is ' mixed' are much more pve/RP players than pvpers, and the 8 op team for pvp make no sense.

4 Full op teams from MVP's or G-synchs have members not only exploit but  toxic as  hell, mocking and laughing to pug players , make them discourage them to pvp anymore.

Conclusion: Bioware, remove the full 8-man Op pvp teams NOW , otherwise enjoy your empty servers in 2-3 months

I play this game from beta. On Tomb of Freedon Nadd server i enjoyed the ranked warzones because guilds there was build for that. Now the new servers are not.

Want to keep full op teams ? Allow them to que in different instance , like on past. Op teams ONLY as ranked warzones , NOT in regular ones.

[DeannaVoyager]

1 hour ago, Darias said:

Bioware tried to make the game 'feel' more MMO but failed on PvP part.

The problem is , there 2-3 guilds out there who just some of their members done ranked warzones in the past, but that was 10 years ago! New generation of players never experienced intense pvp as was on old pvp servers.

80%+ of pvpers have left the game already more than 5 years, and now some who returned  ruined the pvp all over with full 8 man op teams. Because of that,  the new players who start playing the game disappointed   and left for good.

The fix is to return to 4-man teams. When a pug team or a full 4 man team, faces entire 8-man premade, is not easy to handle the game. Because the  4 team premade will do the job, the pugs will get frustrated and will not que again. The results already is disastrous:

1 Many players stop queing , some already left the game to find elsewhere to play and have fun.

2. The full op teams, discouraged  a large amount of players don't want to pvp anymore

3 Because of some 'genius' who say ' is MMO so group'  I will tell you this :

On old pvp servers  wasn't a problem, because there people chose to pvp and become better. After 6 years the pvp servers wiped out, there no much veteran pvpers anymore. Plus to teach a new player few things , will take a lot time, and few pvp small guilds who already exist, don't have the time to 'teach'. Don't forget,  now the community is ' mixed' are much more pve/RP players than pvpers, and the 8 op team for pvp make no sense.

4 Full op teams from MVP's or G-synchs have members not only exploit but  toxic as  hell, mocking and laughing to pug players , make them discourage them to pvp anymore.

Conclusion: Bioware, remove the full 8-man Op pvp teams NOW , otherwise enjoy your empty servers in 2-3 months

I play this game from beta. On Tomb of Freedon Nadd server i enjoyed the ranked warzones because guilds there was build for that. Now the new servers are not.

Want to keep full op teams ? Allow them to que in different instance , like on past. Op teams ONLY as ranked warzones , NOT in regular ones.

 

Just don't allow premades in same queue with solo players, and that's it. Your suggestion to limit them to 4m groups will make soloing arena matches just as impossible as it is solo anything at the moment. 

 

Pvp should also be made less serious and more casual friendly. Getting 1 point from losing a match and 3 points from winning makes it too serious, which makes the environment toxic. It shouldn't take several hours to finish the weekly missions. One hour should be enough, and you won't get it done in one hour if you lose just one match. That's when people start looking for someone (else) to blame and toxicity lifts off. 

[Darias]

1 hour ago, Whiteprince said:

We at MVP's have no toxic ppl. We kick them. So please don't blackmail our name. 

 

We additionally welcome any  newcomers who is willing to join our full premades. 

Well full premades must be off. Period. So play yourselves in 2-3 months only. If that continue.

As for if they toxic or no, asked your guildmates what happened 2 days ago ...

Edited February 12, 2023 by Darias

[Monhnich]

4 hours ago, Whiteprince said:

We at MVP's have no toxic ppl. We kick them. So please don't blackmail our name. 

 

We additionally welcome any  newcomers who is willing to join our full premades. 

I'm sorry but that's a big No No. Game is wrong for allowing that.  A Group that knows how to play v. Casual players who some of them are children Who happend to love the game because they're fans of StarWars They're not gamers just ppl to have a good time.. and groups like yours make the game Miserable for them..No No..devs need to stop this

[Exly]

5 hours ago, Whiteprince said:

We at MVP's have no toxic ppl. We kick them. So please don't blackmail our name. 

 

We additionally welcome any  newcomers who is willing to join our full premades. 

The idea of allowing people to group up for pvp is not the problem.  The problem is that mixing premade groups with pug groups creates a situation where those in the casual group are treated like trash mobs in pve content that are only there to be farmed.  Sure, they provide entertainment value for premade groups, but they do so by taking advantage of others.  

If premades were grouped against other premades then that would make sense.  But premades against pug groups are toxic by nature.

[ZUHFB]

10 hours ago, Exly said:

If premades were grouped against other premades then that would make sense.  But premades against pug groups are toxic by nature.

Absolutely agree! 

The issue is that MVPs only seem to be doing 4s. In a way they are the perfect example, good enough to farm randoms but that's about it. I had a few games against them and they lost all of them, I was solo queueing obviously. They did try to tank tunnel even, in a tank healer game 

But that's just the thing, it's still not fun to be against them. The only reason I was able to win is because most of my team was in the possession of hands, if my team would've been any worse I'd just have /stucked in in spawn, preferable both rounds but cd is too long. 

It's not that we can't beat a premade if we want to, it's that I and probably many others, just don't want to try to beat these tryhards, it's just not worth my time. 

If any premades gets beaten, no matter who: be embarrassed. 

[AwesomeTacoCat]

17 hours ago, Whiteprince said:

Absolutely agree with you. Thanks for writing it. 

Solo group can win against full premade.  Premade has no advantage other that being in same discord and having fun talking to each other. 

Bioware should promote encourage ppl to join pvp guilds. 

 

Thanks again for clarifying that you can beat premades.

 

Ps we mainly going 8 man wzs. 

You do understand that the ability to communicate is a massive advantage? And that more often than not premades are composed of geared, semi-skilled players? Which makes it very easy to beat a team of undergeared noobs (along with the token 2-3 decent players matchmaker sticks with the bots to make it “fair”)…

 

If you can’t understand that maybe don’t post in this thread. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by AwesomeTacoCat

[Yusta]

i would like different queque.

there is basic 2 different situation i meet when put against premade.

the first it's the premade who will play to win as fast as they can, this will only last for few minute so it's semi-ok if that happen once in a while, but very annoying if you are unlucky and meet them 3-4 times in a row.

the second it's the premade that only wish kill farm and will drag thing out the most they can, this case it's boring and frustating even once.

don't realy get the point of all those who don't like obejctive warzone but stick with it, if you only wish to kill there is arena.

[ZUHFB]

21 minutes ago, Whiteprince said:

When we do full premade system looks for another premade for about 30 min. Only then we get a pop against randoms. 

 

So, in other word. For solo player every 3d wz will be against premade. (if one in the q) 

That is wrong, not only does it mean that 33% of the games are boring. It also means that the other 67% are vs. another premade, which isn't matched against you because well they are still in the match

[Monhnich]

22 minutes ago, Whiteprince said:

 

 

So, in other word. For solo player every 3d wz will be against premade. (if one in the q) 

Not True. Every wz is going to be against premade. There is not enough participants to not go against premade.  Problem is that bioware never saw the financial loss cause by behavior of players like you. Casual player do invest money in this game i.e subscriptions , cartel package ets,  And then there's ppl like you Who chase them away.  Players like you had tried to ruined other mmo games but guess what.. Phrrr!! sorry, too many subscribers and too many servers.. So for you players is back to the whole you all came from SWTOR. 

 

 

[Yusta]

2 hours ago, Whiteprince said:

When we do full premade system looks for another premade for about 30 min. Only then we get a pop against randoms. 

 

So, in other word. For solo player every 3d wz will be against premade. (if one in the q) 

 i dunno how macthmaking work , but few day ago there was a streamer in a 7 man premade theyr queque was only around 5 min, not even once against another premade, dunno if other premade were there tho.

[TrixxieTriss]

9 hours ago, Whiteprince said:

They did try different queue. 10 years ago. 

It didn't work then and won't work now. 

 

 

 

Actually that’s blatantly not true & misleading on purpose.

The queue they tried 10 years ago was an 8v8 ranked queue. You had to have 8 members in each premade. Which isn’t what people are suggesting here. So please stop spreading false information.

What’s is being asked for is a queue for solo players only. No premades allowed & a queue for premades of any size. 

But for it to work, I think the premade queue would need one other restriction. People would need to queue up in even numbers because odd number premades would still require solo players to make the teams even. 

My proposal is a premade queue for objective pvp that allows 2, 4, 6 or 8 man teams. But also allows the queue to pop without a full 8 man compliment. That way “if” there are 2x 6 man teams in the queue & no 2 man teams, the game makes 6v6 matches. 

For Arena, the queue would allow 2 or 4 man premades. But the matchmaking would only put 4 man teams against other 4 man teams. And a 2 man team could be 2x 2 man teams on each side to make 4v4 or it could pop 2v2 if there aren’t enough 2 man teams in the queue.

If premades are really as popular as people here say they are, then both queues should have no problem populating. Especially since BioWare have now lifted the PVP restrictions for F2P & preferred players. And because they have added pvp seasons for the masses. 

If BioWare really want to build up pvp numbers, this is the way to do it. If they want to drive every solo player away from pvp, then they are on the right track allowing 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 man premades to play against solo players. 

And if BioWare really cared. They would do a survey & ask the players what they want instead of forcing their “own vision” on us all the time. Because we all know how well their “own vision” has worked at alienating players from the game. Which mostly causes people to leave. 😞🤷🏻‍♀️.

Edited February 15, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[-Garmonbozia]

There's an 8 man that runs nightly from around 7pm on Satele, not extraordinary players, but they steamroll pug groups because there's no real resistance. Randos mostly don't attempt to form up super premades and when they do, it's to do objectives, while premades like this are there to farm.  Form up a group of better players though and these people log out.

While I love to premade with friends as much as anyone, I tend to run super groups only rarely because it's boring mowing down everyone in our path and it sucks for the other team. What BW has missed with allowing these super groups into queue with the general population is the fact a lot of these types of players just want to be in situations where they are the bullies for once and given a taste of no longer being bottom feeders in a game or in life, it becomes an addiction. 

No changes they make to the reward system is going to change the way they play. It's not what they're in game for. They're in game to make themselves feel better. Like Trixxie keeps saying, some kind of separation needs to happen. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by -Garmonbozia

[Yusta]

1 hour ago, Whiteprince said:

Game does not recognize 7 players as premade. 

 

It must be a full group of 8 for wz and 4 for arena. 

goctha, didin't know that.

but this it's than another big problem since it can be easily abused.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Yusta

[TrixxieTriss]

7 hours ago, Whiteprince said:

Game does not recognize 7 players as premade. 

 

It must be a full group of 8 for wz and 4 for arena. 

More misinformation from you 🤦‍♀️

How come nearly everyone of your posts in this thread has misinformation in it 🤷🏻‍♀️

1. A premade in objective pap can be formed with 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 people. 

2. A premade in arena pvp can be 2, 3 or 4 people in the group.

*** IT DOES NOT NEED TO BE A FULL PREMADE GROUP OF 8 for objective pvp OR A FULL PREMADE GROUP OF 4 for arena ***

So it wouldn’t be hard to see a 7 man premade in a stream with some poor random solo player being stuck with them each match.

Please stop posting false information.

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

5 hours ago, Yusta said:

goctha, didin't know that.

but this it's than another big problem since it can be easily abused.

He is spreading false information again. Please see my response to his post. 

[Nee-Elder]

16 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

So it wouldn’t be hard to see a 7 man premade in a stream with some poor random solo player being stuck with them each match.

Yep it's happened to me a few times, although i certainly didn't feel  "poor"  nor  "stuck" .

Silly me, i really enjoy winning matches & medals way more than i do losing.

p.s. Best part about being queue-placed onto premade is:  No one talks in chat.  They just go about their business of playing the game, focus firing their targets, and shielding their healer (me) .  Hey RNG queue-gods: Feel free to label me "carried"  all day and twice on sunday, no prob!