Follow-ups on PvP in 7.2

[EricMusco]

Hey folks, 

We’re seeing a lot of chatter about the changes coming to PvP in both the PTS and PvP sub-forums. To consolidate conversations, I’m posting a thread here rather than responding to several threads with similar information. I’ll break down the main points that we’re seeing and address them accordingly. 

Why are we making these changes to PvP?

We talked about this during the 7.2 livestream, but I will reiterate the goals here. There are three main goals we want to achieve with this revamp: 

• Create a positive and engaging PvP experience for all players
• Increase the overall participation and quality of PvP matches 
• Offer new incentives that benefit everyone who participates in PvP

With these goals in mind, this is why we moved to the PvP Revamp as you know it. Which includes the new PvP seasonal structure, queues being condensed into 8v8 (Warzones) and 4v4 (Arenas), and the rest of the changes we have been discussing.

Why not keep some form of the Leaderboards active? 

This is a good question and there is a lot that went into this decision so let me talk you through it.

First, a big one, Combat Styles! Our Ranked Leaderboards were built to pretty explicitly take your class into account, hence why it was organized (and rewards even) were based on Class. That got thrown for a big loop in 7.0 as now you could have more than one "class" (now Combat Style) and change between them. This would have meant even just for the leaderboards to continue as is, would have taken a large rewrite to how we handled player data.

Second, the leaderboards did not help in creating a positive environment. We absolutely can attribute quite a bit of this to the top 96 rewards as there was incentive for breaking into the top 3 of each class. However, even with that the leaderboards were very frequently used as a method of harassment against other players. These behaviors led to violations of our Terms of Service, harassment and spam being directed to both players and support staff, and required a substantial amount of moderation and investigation.

These all led to our decision to no longer support leaderboards. Now, with that said we very much understand that being able to flex and compete is a cornerstone of PvP. That is what we are leaning into the Battle Record for, as a way for players to track and share their stats.

The competitive nature of PvP 

PvP on any level is naturally competitive as is implied in its own name, Player vs Player. Due to that competition there are always going to be things that happen that aren’t entirely positive. Especially in situations where there are questions of teammates skill or intentions, or just some good ole “smack talking.” We get it. However, our own supporting PvP systems and environment should do everything they can to encourage positive play. The revamp allows us the opportunity to invite more players to participate in PvP while removing sources that generated negative behaviors such as the leaderboards and even PvP flags. 

With that in mind I want to end on an important note. This is Season ONE of the PvP revamp. We know it won’t be perfect but that is always the benefit of a live service. It gives us the opportunity to read feedback, see player data, and more to continue to improve the system, its rewards, and even consider additional features to support our goals for PvP. We hope you dive into this first season and we look forward to continuing the conversation on supporting and growing the PvP community going forward.

-eric
 

EDIT: Adding the PvP Revamp article here for more visibility. 

[RikuvonDrake]

Great news thank u, special shoutout to KappaChris

Edited December 8, 2022 by RikuvonDrake

[JediMasterAlex]

23 minutes ago, EricMusco said:

This would have meant even just for the leaderboards to continue as is, would have taken a large rewrite to how we handled player data.

God forbid Bioware had to do any work to improve pvp.

26 minutes ago, EricMusco said:

Second, the leaderboards did not help in creating a positive environment. We absolutely can attribute quite a bit of this to the top 96 rewards as there was incentive for breaking into the top 3 of each class. However, even with that the leaderboards were very frequently used as a method of harassment against other players. These behaviors led to violations of our Terms of Service, harassment and spam being directed to both players and support staff, and required a substantial amount of moderation and investigation.

These are outright lies. Virtually no one cared about leaderboard positioning outside of top 3s. Furthermore, reports for wintrading and throwing were not "spam," though it makes sense in hindsight that that's how Bioware viewed them. Finally, there was no moderation or investigation regarding wintrading or throwing in ranked over the last few years. The only actions that people were punished for were account sharing and hate speech, which can occur in any part of the game.

30 minutes ago, EricMusco said:

Now, with that said we very much understand that being able to flex and compete is a cornerstone of PvP. That is what we are leaning into the Battle Record for, as a way for players to track and share their stats

How will those stats mean anything when people can just exclusively play in premades and fight solos?

31 minutes ago, EricMusco said:

PvP on any level is naturally competitive as is implied in its own name, Player vs Player. Due to that competition there are always going to be things that happen that aren’t entirely positive. Especially in situations where there are questions of teammates skill or intentions, or just some good ole “smack talking.” We get it. However, our own supporting PvP systems and environment should do everything they can to encourage positive play. The revamp allows us the opportunity to invite more players to participate in PvP while removing sources that generated negative behaviors such as the leaderboards and even PvP flags. 

Spoken like someone that doesn't even remotely "get it" lol.

[SteveTheCynic]

28 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

God forbid Bioware had to do any work to improve pvp.

Be careful of the difference between "this is work" and "this is a *lot* of work"...

28 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

These are outright lies.

May I advise caution when accusing people of lying?

28 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

Virtually no one cared about leaderboard positioning outside of top 3s.

Except maybe numbers 4, 5, 6, 7, etc., but especially number 4.

28 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

Furthermore, reports for wintrading and throwing were not "spam," though it makes sense in hindsight that that's how Bioware viewed them. Finally, there was no moderation or investigation regarding wintrading or throwing in ranked over the last few years. The only actions that people were punished for were account sharing and hate speech, which can occur in any part of the game.

That's a strong accusation, although I agree that posts about this subject have been absent from the DevTracker for a while now.

28 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

How will those stats mean anything when people can just exclusively play in premades and fight solos?

Yeah, everyone plays in premades and fights solos.  Wait, which solos are they, if everyone plays in premades?

28 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

Spoken like someone that doesn't even remotely "get it" lol.

No need to be rude.

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

1 hour ago, EricMusco said:

These behaviors led to violations of our Terms of Service, harassment and spam being directed to both players and support staff, and required a substantial amount of moderation and investigation
 

Is that why pvp team took a grand total of 0 actions since past 2 years? Is that why pvpreports email has been inactive for 2 years? How did it require any moderation if the reports weren't even being opened? I still have videos which I sent over a year ago, to pvpreports, support, and communitysupport that are sitting at 0 views. 

 

But regardless, those issues are still going to be in the game, are you saying that by removing leaderboards you no longer are going to investigate/moderate reports? That doesn't sound like a very good way to "incentivize new players"  😄

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

2 minutes ago, SteveTheCynic said:

May I advise caution when accusing people of lying?

That's a strong accusation, although I agree that posts about this subject have been absent from the DevTracker for a while now.

anyone with eyes can see that devs did NOTHING to moderate ranked pvp for past 2 years lol

It got to the point where bioware official content creators, were streaming themselves creating reports, and still nothing happened. But yeah they did "a lot of work"  🤣

[JediMasterAlex]

1 minute ago, SteveTheCynic said:

May I advise caution when accusing people of lying?

I chose my words deliberately, thanks for your concern though.

2 minutes ago, SteveTheCynic said:

Except maybe numbers 4, 5, 6, 7, etc., but especially number 4.

You're just being pedantic. The point is, top 3s did drive a decent amount of toxicity. Many, probably most, ranked players supported the removal of top 3s, which would have solved virtually all of Bioware's stated goals. I never saw the leaderboards in general create toxicity, and I played many thousands of ranked matches over the last few years.

4 minutes ago, SteveTheCynic said:

That's a strong accusation, although I agree that posts about this subject have been absent from the DevTracker for a while now.

More importantly, it's a true accusation.

4 minutes ago, SteveTheCynic said:

Yeah, everyone plays in premades and fights solos.  Wait, which solos are they, if everyone plays in premades?

The point is, any winrate stats will be utterly meaningless when premades and solos are in the same queues. Person A queues exclusively in a premade and has a 70% winrate. Person B queues exclusively solo and has a 60% winrate. How could those possibly be fairly compared lol.

6 minutes ago, SteveTheCynic said:

No need to be rude.

I strongly disagree. I wish I could use much stronger language, but their forum moderation rules are ridiculously soft.

[Achnaattwo]

1 hour ago, EricMusco said:

we are leaning into the Battle Record

will the battle records  be visible to everyone ?

specially in a competitive environment, you want to know who you're playing with/against.

 

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

Just now, Achnaattwo said:

will the battle records  be visible to everyone ?

specially in a competitive environment, you want to know who you're playing with/against.

 

on PTS you cannot see someone's battle record unless they share it with you
 

and it is a meaningless record anyway since the game mode has no matchmaking or moderation

[Achnaattwo]

1 minute ago, Mycroft-Tarkin said:

on PTS

what did it show ?

[Weswhitebore]

You guys said you wanted a more positive experience. Respectfully, how is this more positive for anyone? Now that you don't really have to put any effort into the pvp community is that more positive for you? What do the players really get out of this? Why should someone log in everyday to pvp without the proper incentive. Without something meaningful to work towards why would anyone stay? Yes SWTOR PVP was before this change, the best mmo pvp out there, but are you betting on players to not give up? This doesn't feel like a PVP revamp. Rather instead you're removing a system because you don't want to invest proper resources to make ranked pvp more accessible to new players, and provide something for casuals. So you're just removing it. What I think you failed to realize Mr. Musco  is that you need to have mountains to climb, you need some kind of challenge for people to want to complete. When you don't have those mountains to climb, as in you say later in your post, live service, people get unhappy. Adding a leaderboard system would have been a good compromise for the removal of ranked. If done right, it would drive competition and give players a reason to improve and get better. There have been suggestions on how this could be implemented and they have been explain throughout the forum.

1 hour ago, EricMusco said:

First, a big one, Combat Styles! Our Ranked Leaderboards were built to pretty explicitly take your class into account, hence why it was organized (and rewards even) were based on Class. That got thrown for a big loop in 7.0 as now you could have more than one "class" (now Combat Style) and change between them. This would have meant even just for the leaderboards to continue as is, would have taken a large rewrite to how we handled player data.

Combat Styles, so you shot yourselves in the foot, created a problem for yourselves, and now have a hole that instead of digging yourselves out of with hard work, would prefer just to wait until someone strolls along with a rope to throw to you. Could this not have been tackle pre-emptively prior to your decision to input Combat Styles into 7.0?? As you said ", would have taken a large rewrite to how we handled player data.", it sounds like you're just trying to avoid allocating the proper resources or admitting this could've been prevented.

 

1 hour ago, EricMusco said:

the leaderboards did not help in creating a positive environment. We absolutely can attribute quite a bit of this to the top 96 rewards as there was incentive for breaking into the top 3 of each class. However, even with that the leaderboards were very frequently used as a method of harassment against other players.

If you listen to one thing the community has ever said for PvP,  you would not be able to hide behind the excuse of toxic behavior behind a leaderboard. I have never seen anyone complain about having a leaderboard, and no one has whined about their spot on said board. Conquest has a leaderboard, makes no sense not to have one for pvp.  Raiding achievements drive toxic behavior and elitist attitudes to people who don't have the same clears, you gonna get rid of those too? . Adding a leaderboard system would have been a good compromise for the removal of ranked and provided actual incentive to play. Something as simple as removing the Top 96 Rewards  for a season or two would have gone a long way to reducing these toxic behaviors or even, hear me out, proper moderation of the game mode. Your Battle Record is a meaningless record since the game mode has no matchmaking or moderation and cannot be seen unless shared by that person.

 

1 hour ago, EricMusco said:

These behaviors led to violations of our Terms of Service, harassment and spam being directed to both players and support staff, and required a substantial amount of moderation and investigation.

 

What moderation and investigation??  You haven't moderated anything in the last 2 years involving PVP and i'm sure others would agree. There are plenty of players you haven't banned from this game that have been reported. Some of them are evenly openly admitting so in the forums. Take accountability in the fact that Bioware’s lack of success or attempts at moderating these behaviors, as well as their refusal to address the issues before now, is part of the issue and made you give up. You can't even moderate the behavior in the fourms properly. Since the announcement of the removal of Ranked, more ‘casual’ players and those who don’t even PvP have been mocking Ranked players and/or insisting that it deserved to be removed (and various other opinions in between). These attitudes demonstrate the same theme, hatred of top-tier competitive players, players who worked hard for what they achieved. A sort of jealousy really when it comes down to it.

For the longest, PVP has been neglected by you and the rest of the Dev team to finally reach this end result. If you really wanted to make PVP a better place you could've been making these improvements along the way that you left unaddressed, that would've helped fix/improve the PVP experience. Some of these are displayed here:

1. Lowbie PVP was an imbalanced dumpster fire: Don't get me wrong lowbie PVP can be fun as everyone is kind of a noobie and it makes games more interesting, but the problem arises when you have to deal with level 75+ players. The problem is that there were way more powerful than say a level 67 toon. You will get matches with a level 79 player who has full 306 Gear from their alts, and their tactical. Just having their tactical alone makes the matches imbalanced. While endgame PVP can have one sided matches depending on how good your team is and if there is a premade on the other (More on that later) the matches are generally pretty even as everyone has around 320-328 gear and has their tactical. You don't get that in lowbies, I've just seen game modes where one team slaughters another because of the gear and level difference.  Just earlier today as a level 70 I was struggling with level 75s who had their full abilities, tacticals, etc.

2. The Meta Classes require no skill: The top Performing PVP classes; Deception, Lethality, PT, and The Mara/Sentinel Classes Require arguably no skill to play. I'm probably going to get flak, but I've myself and countless others have played almost every spec in PVP and these are the "turn off brain and people die" classes. Deception/Lethality fall under the stealth meta, where if they want they get the "Get out of jail card" with popping stealth again, (twice with two cloaks for sins).  Not to mention Lethality can just off heal no problem, whereas deception has two stuns, abilites that can stack their crits, etc. Finally the Mara/Sentinel classes just have high damage, a semi stealth ability (Glad Defel got nerfed) and have utilities out the wazoo. Before 7.0 you could play well with all classes, and all specs were decently viable, now its just "play the meta."  

3. The skill gap and learning environment is a completely steep cliff, there is a massive learning curve. You could've made 4 vs 4 Unranked practice arenas, or even combine the Queues while having an opt-in system, you could've done this before now. You gave us a baby that needed to take a bath, gave us the bath, and then threw out the baby, making the bath worthless. To a new level 80, trying to explain a nim raid or how PVP works is like a nuclear scientist trying to explain their job to someone who has no idea what they do. You need a freaking flight manual to understand Swtor mechanics and instead of Bioware teaching it to you they're just like "We'll make content easier, taking away your incentive to learn, but also, if you wanna learn how things actually work to be able to do end game content well, then we can't help you". The skill gaps are too great, if you aren't a somewhat seasoned player then you have a lot of catching up to do in order to catch the multi-year vets who stood at the top in Ranked or were in the queues because the player pool is not massive enough to always get paired with someone your skill level, especially as a new player that tried to get into Ranked.

 

1 hour ago, EricMusco said:

PvP on any level is naturally competitive as is implied in its own name, Player vs Player. Due to that competition there are always going to be things that happen that aren’t entirely positive. Especially in situations where there are questions of teammates skill or intentions, or just some good ole “smack talking.” We get it. However, our own supporting PvP systems and environment should do everything they can to encourage positive play. The revamp allows us the opportunity to invite more players to participate in PvP while removing sources that generated negative behaviors such as the leaderboards and even PvP flags. 

You're never going to create a entirely "safespace" in PvP. PvP is inherently a competition between two players. Trying to remove competition from PvP to establish a safespace is completely counter-productive to the nature of the game mode. Now things like removing pvp flags is insulting, just as insulting as offering Ranked rewards as participation trophies for the new GS PVP track. A lot of players spend hundreds of hours improving and building their skills to earn those rewards. If you really wanted to fix toxicity through emotes or actions 98% of the emotes would be gutted. None of your reasoning is any justification to remove players' hard earned rewards. By the same logic you're using, Wings of the Nihrot (the new mount that has a .01% drop rate from HM R4) should be removed from the game since you can collect or flex those in chat .Matter in fact  you're literally bringing flags as a reward in the PvP Season Track, but removing ranked flags. Planting a flag was privilege for the elite (those who deserved it)... now everyone and their dog can plant a flag, congrats,  10x more toxicity.

1 hour ago, EricMusco said:

The revamp allows us the opportunity to invite more players to participate in PvP while removing sources that generated negative behaviors such as the leaderboards and even PvP flags. 

The game lacks a functional pathway to incorporate new participants into any kind of  endgame content, not just to include PVP. . Bioware also does not invest in promoting their own end-game or even game content outside of certain Swtor Youtubers like Swtorista, who showcases mostly casual content, even though she is more PVE and never really touches PVP content. Biggs, Kogass, and Prum were getting engagement in PvP, doing tournaments and stuff, but it was mostly self-sustained by the players, a decent amount of their audience is already in the upper tier while Biggs does have somewhat of an casual audience. The same goes for the Raider community and Nim raiders and things like SFRC, the big Nim race the high tiers in the raid community come together to do. If these types of content had an actual platform, it would make Swtor more appealing and the game would do better, more people would be interested in doing these type of content. Your changes had more negative effects that good, it even forced your PVP content creators that brought more awareness and help to PVP, to quit. Biggs, Prum, Ragequit,  I think even Noble, I haven't seen Kogass stream in a bit, Scooby is also a raider, don't know how he feels, but most of the PvPers that brought traction, are leaving.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Weswhitebore
Adding that your PVP Content creators had quit.

[assatrap]

Keep it constructive and concise guys. These wall of texts don't help. This is the first time in ages devs engaging in PVP forums and open to feedback.

I'm giving feedback after I play 7.2 for a few weeks. I will reserve my judgement for now. 

I think the "Battle Record" idea is very good. Sorta like a "Valor" expanded. PVP players needs to be able to express their skill/flex
somehow this is a good step lets see how it plays out.

[alasamaya]

Some things that come to my mind with this:

- How are you going to create a positive enviroment in PVP? You could have said wintrading was an issue before. What prevents big conquest guild to keep doing two teams between guildies and taking gear off to "make the match end faster" and be rewarded cause of it? You dont see the issue here? This wintrading issue wasnt exclusively a ranked problem. Is a moderation issue related with the entire PVP system. People afking in GSF, not doing any damage and selfdestructing to be "active" again and, therefore, cant be kicked. People afking in PVP and get the same rewards that people really trying to win a match. Big guilds letting their other groups win to get extra conquest and fastest PVP seasons tokens. Does this sounds to you like a positive enviroment? Or a positive experience? The issue with PVP has been for a really long LACK OF MODERATION. And this isnt exclusively related with ranked.

-You said you want to increase PVP participation. Getting rid of ranked players is not going to increase it. Many FTP players will be able to do regular warzones now, which is fine, and will increase endgame participation, but this idea could have been perfectly aplicable keeping ranked. You guys make zero sense here on what you want and what you are doing.

-The incentives to increase PVP participation, again, could have been perfectly used by keeping ranked.

 

Like people already stated, conquest leaderboards also conduct to cheating. Some guilds have agreement to not invade the same planets to make sure they will conquest it. Other guilds do wintrading in ranked to get the more possible points they can to achieve their conquest - and nothing will change for their "wintrade" to do the same behavior (taking their gear off) in the new regular arenas for conquest. Or just AFK Galactic Starfighter matches to get their conquest! Does this sound like positive enviroment to you, Eric? Im telling this to prove that the state of PVP isnt particular ranked problem. This is a system issue, coming from the zero moderation you guys are putting into it. 

You claimed ranked requires too much moderation and sometimes it was spam reports that requires too much resources. Eric, with all the respect here, I sent videos that were NEVER WATCHED. Either GSF afkers, ranked throwers....How can you say you are investing resources when nothing has been done for the longest time?  Again, sorry I repeat myself: This IS NOT specific content issue. Is you guys not policing your own game IN ANY ASPECT OF IT.

Removing content is just a terrible idea, and it shows you guys dont see what the problem is. Is trying to deny all responsability on the lack of actions and effort you are putting into the game, and make it appear like "is the players responsability. Shame on them". But, to be honest, anybody can see what the reality is here. You just stopped caring about the game.

Edited December 8, 2022 by alasamaya

[Weswhitebore]

2 minutes ago, assatrap said:

hese wall of texts don't help. This is the first time in ages devs engaging in PVP forums and open to feedback.

If they want feedback, they are going to get it. If they are actually interested in detailed feedback, they will read these walls of text. If they didn't want walls of text with details they wouldn't have made us able to make them. The fact that they limit reactions to post is counter-productive to their "Give us your feedback" narrative that they seemingly push. At the end of the day, they are going to do whatever they want, if they wanted, they could say they're listening, and not be listening at all. Even a live Q&A between the dev team and content creators to voice the major concerns of the community would be a sure fire way to make sure we are heard and would restore some faith that they are listening. They are not above criticism. 

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

17 minutes ago, assatrap said:

Keep it constructive and concise guys. These wall of texts don't help. This is the first time in ages devs engaging in PVP forums and open to feedback.

I'm giving feedback after I play 7.2 for a few weeks. I will reserve my judgement for now. 

I think the "Battle Record" idea is very good. Sorta like a "Valor" expanded. PVP players needs to be able to express their skill/flex
somehow this is a good step lets see how it plays out.

I hope you know that posting here requires paying bioware money, and for the past 11 months pvp players have been waiting, many of them still subscribed and doing preseason, anticipating ranked season 15 only to be finally told "gtfo" by bioware

In fact so many people are already unsubbed and cannot give their "feedback" at all, so please don't give nonsense responses like telling others not to give feedback when bioware specifically requested it

[krackcommando]

3 hours ago, Mycroft-Tarkin said:

Is that why pvp team took a grand total of 0 actions since past 2 years? Is that why pvpreports email has been inactive for 2 years? How did it require any moderation if the reports weren't even being opened? I still have videos which I sent over a year ago, to pvpreports, support, and communitysupport that are sitting at 0 views. 

 

But regardless, those issues are still going to be in the game, are you saying that by removing leaderboards you no longer are going to investigate/moderate reports? That doesn't sound like a very good way to "incentivize new players"  😄

did you catch someone playing the objectives in a WZ? that bastard! 😃

[krackcommando]

3 hours ago, JediMasterAlex said:

The point is, any winrate stats will be utterly meaningless when premades and solos are in the same queues. Person A queues exclusively in a premade and has a 70% winrate. Person B queues exclusively solo and has a 60% winrate. How could those possibly be fairly compared lol.

supposedly they're matching teams with overall balanced "ratings." so in theory, it works as (in)effectively as rated arenas. meaning it will eventually show separation. but the greater concern here is that every. single. WZ. is easy to cheese. is packed with players who have no idea how the maps work and/or how their class works and/or how their class works in pvp.

I just don't see the point. these maps have been worthless since...gawd. how long? season 2 or 3? when did DPS start getting tank level dcds and movement boosts? and the desync in many of those maps is just impossible. you can't have games that matter with that severe an issue. I know when and where it's going to happen, but it doesn't change the fact that players are untouchable for 3-6s at a clip. that's a lifetime on a HB map.

[krackcommando]

3 hours ago, Mycroft-Tarkin said:

it is a meaningless record anyway since the game mode has no matchmaking or moderation

supposedly, there's been matchmaking in regs for years. I sometimes see it. I think it's a very "gentle" thing that gives precedence to pop rate. but it's kinda hard to balance regs with the wide range of abilities and the wide range of interest in actually achieving the game's win conditions.

sorry for all the posts. I find this new forum onerous for multiple quoting even though it's designed to make that easier.

Edited December 9, 2022 by krackcommando
multiple posts

[krackcommando]

2 hours ago, Weswhitebore said:

You guys said you wanted a more positive experience. Respectfully, how is this more positive for anyone? Now that you don't really have to put any effort into the pvp community is that more positive for you?

it's more positive for the vast majority of their player base and the ppl who queue for pvp. that population is the GS space barbie hamster wheel population. it just is. this game has been that vector for a very long time. in that regard, it's no surprise at all that their big 7.2 pvp revamp is to eliminate competitive pvp. it's eerily similar to the event leading up to season one of ranked WZs...which turned into the elimination of ranked WZs entirely.

[waisting]

Thank you for taking the time to share Eric. I hope it's true with the emphasis about this being season one, and feedback will be taken going forward. It definitely seems like the general feedback from the most devoted PVPers is to incentivize higher skill ceiling rewards. Perhaps a harder to complete rewards track based on medals / kills / damage (actual contribution) that rewards only high level play and not simply participation. 

Participation is fantastic of course but as you say, PVP is by nature competitive. Therefore the highest rewards should go to the people who contribute / win the most. Similar to how the highest rewards in raiding are not given out in story mode operations.

Edited December 9, 2022 by waisting

[Jbotheman]

Removing flags wont solve the toxicity , forcing ppl to queue with "friends" is a major problem, the solo player as my self that don't support pre-made will get 'farmed' this is  truely promoting premades that don't do Objectives, they are dedicated only to farm dps numbers and kills. pushing out the players because is frustrating trying to play when you have a grp of ppl queueing for the sole purpose of bully abuse others. SO AGAIN thinking like elites , you solve this issue by fixing even more the classes and assign 8v8 4v4 and whoever want to queue solo gets into a 8v8 with oother 7 ppl and not allowing 4 ppl in premade , don't nerf classes bring every class to the same lvl example Arsenal need lot's of work still , electronet used to be 12 sec got nerf and is 9 seconds taking out rock out for hydrolics is dumb af taking out the dmg reduction was a bad idea , taking out the armor penetration was a nerf in top of all the crap that has done in the past, but again EVERYTHING is working as intended ( this phrase is calling us MORONS, when you don't know whats going on). YOU are the reason that this game is lossing players.

 

[Raazmir]

Age is why the game is losing players.

 

Solo ranked and arena format is why PVP is a graveyard.  Separating the queues and removing solo queue is the first step in trying to revive pvp.  They actually have to appeal to people who aren't currently pvpers in order to grow pvp.  That means doing a lot of things the .01% of the population that took ranked semi seriously is going to hate because they've put too much of their feelings of self worth into a video game.

[alasamaya]

23 minutes ago, Raazmir said:

Age is why the game is losing players.

Thats not the reason they are losing players. Final Fantasy 14 is as old as SWTOR, and yet they managed to grow a lot in these years, meanwhile SWTOR has been doing nothing but losing players. The key there is how much effort devs from both games are putting into the game. Thats the real difference. 

 

25 minutes ago, Raazmir said:

Solo ranked and arena format is why PVP is a graveyard.  Separating the queues and removing solo queue is the first step in trying to revive pvp.  They actually have to appeal to people who aren't currently pvpers in order to grow pvp.  That means doing a lot of things the .01% of the population that took ranked semi seriously is going to hate because they've put too much of their feelings of self worth into a video game.

They could keep the ranked system while doing their revamp. There was literally no problem to keep both systems at all. You can incentive new players/pvers into PVP while keeping the competitive mode. There was literally no reason to remove it, appart of the "Oh god, is too much work" part. 

[Raazmir]

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Thats not the reason they are losing players. Final Fantasy 14 is as old as SWTOR, and yet they managed to grow a lot in these years, meanwhile SWTOR has been doing nothing but losing players. The key there is how much effort devs from both games are putting into the game. Thats the real difference. 

FF14 had a HUGE rework and is a property popular in china.  Star wars is pretty much the west and basically zero reworks on a similar scale.

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They could keep the ranked system while doing their revamp. There was literally no problem to keep both systems at all. You can incentive new players/pvers into PVP while keeping the competitive mode. There was literally no reason to remove it, appart of the "Oh god, is too much work" part. 

 

Nope,  A proper ranked system doesn't have separate queues.  Now your rank is your rank based on all the pvp you do and it can be divided between TDM and Objective play.  Matchmaking may actually happen now. 

[JediMasterAlex]

9 minutes ago, Raazmir said:

Nope,  A proper ranked system doesn't have separate queues.  Now your rank is your rank based on all the pvp you do and it can be divided between TDM and Objective play.  Matchmaking may actually happen now. 

There is no way you can actually believe this. If you think that Bioware will actually implement a functional matchmaking system that even remotely captures skill accurately when there are premades vs solos, you are going to be terribly disappointed.

Bioware hasn't even acknowledged whether arenas will be role mirrored or not. I suspect not lol.