Premades ruin PvP

[Chryptyk]

personally, i would love a solo queue "bracket" for 8s, since i don't do arenas anyways.  i almost always solo queue and would rather face off against 8 randoms than a 4m or 8m premade.  not because i'm good or anything.  i'd just prefer randoms facing other randoms, so that neither side has an advantage.

[DeannaVoyager]

2 hours ago, Chryptyk said:

personally, i would love a solo queue "bracket" for 8s, since i don't do arenas anyways.  i almost always solo queue and would rather face off against 8 randoms than a 4m or 8m premade.  not because i'm good or anything.  i'd just prefer randoms facing other randoms, so that neither side has an advantage.

 

If the weeklies would be like 4 matches max (like GSF), I might consider grouping up with people to get it done faster. I don't even know how many matches the weeklies are these days, but I'm pretty sure it's more than 4. I don't want to tie myself into a group for who knows for how long, where some people only need 1 match to finish, someone else needs 2 and so on. Chances are I won't have group long enough to finish mine so trying to group up for a weekly would be waste of time. I don't start things I already know I can't finish. That's why I also prefer q'ing solo. I can play when I want to and I don't have to wait for everyone in the group to have a bio break every 10 minutes, answering phones, going to see who's at the door, feeding cats, taking dogs out, patching up a kid who hurt themselves, or anything that involves having to wait for other people who can't focus on what we are supposed to be doing. So yes, solo queue would be my choice for sure. It's my playtime, I don't want to waste it on waiting for other people dealing with their RL stuff. 

 

And of course I like having a level playfield. Solo queue against other random solo players is the only way to do that. No-one has an advantage over others, only skill matters. That's what PVP should be. Balanced pvp is fun, unbalanced is not. I honestly don't understand how BW thought putting premades against solo players would be a good idea.

 

I won't be touching pvp as long as premades are put against solo players. I'd like arenas to be solo queue too. I really like objective pvp on 8m, but the risk of getting huttball is too much.  

[Bullyabass]

Premades are boring and queue killers and make match making pretty much impossible

Playing against them is boring, playing as a premade is also boring but you do get the compensation of believing you're a pvp god. At least until you queue without your premade and it all comes crashing down.

Separate out a solos only queue.

If you want faster pops then queue in general, if you want a fun, competitive match then queue in solos

Edited January 1, 2023 by Bullyabass

[Alphex]

Grouping up for pvp isn't for me so I'm not going to. My winnings are starting to drop below 50% and I might not continue if this goes on. I'm quite competitive but it has to be fair.

[Weswhitebore]

5 hours ago, Alphex said:

Grouping up for pvp isn't for me so I'm not going to. My winnings are starting to drop below 50% and I might not continue if this goes on. I'm quite competitive but it has to be fair.

So you're going to go against the way Bioware has encouraged players to PVP and put yourself as an disadvantage, making it either too competitive or a one-sided affair, also making it, not fair??

[Chryptyk]

premades should be forced to play other premades, plain and simple, even if it takes longer for their queue to pop.  most people queue solo for whatever reason.  they don't wanna queue with other people.

[Katushe]

1 hour ago, Chryptyk said:

premades should be forced to play other premades, plain and simple, even if it takes longer for their queue to pop.  most people queue solo for whatever reason.  they don't wanna queue with other people.

It might make all que to pop much more seldomly. In an already shrinking population. See it as a server merge. It is troublesome, but necessary.

[Alphex]

6 hours ago, Weswhitebore said:

So you're going to go against the way Bioware has encouraged players to PVP and put yourself as an disadvantage, making it either too competitive or a one-sided affair, also making it, not fair??

If this is how Bioware wants pvp that's completely fine, I just won't be playing then. If one team has an advantage (willing or not) that the other team does not I indeed call that unfair competition.

[MarkusBiggus]

PvP has been effectively ruined for PUG players with groups from ranked being queued against PUGs.

It's almost impossible to get 8 medals, you'll always be focussed at least 2 vs 1 often 3 or 4 vs one, depends on how may in pre-made are cheating on voice chat.

It's such a dead give away, usually a melee and ranged on you at same time, no way to survive or get a kill. If they get into trouble 2 or more appear just in time, every time.

From my little ranked experience, the player into pre-made groups are the most toxic people I've ever encountered. So desperate to win at any cost, hence the cheating on voice chat.

If your intention was to destroy PvP for all but the ex ranked players and their toxic culture, I can't imagine what else you could do that you haven't already.

[Samcuu]

Nope I'm gonna disagree, this looks like a lot of qq'ing to me. First off why penalize players who are smart and want to win? This is an mmo you group to do content it's not a solo player game. Should bioware throw pugs a bone? Sure...that bone is cross server queuing so the matchmaking has an easier time queueing premades against premades. However I'm sorry to break this to you, in the mean time because ur lazy or just don't want to group u get to be cannon fodder for the players who are outgoing and meet other players who are good, in turn group up and win easily cuz the competition is lazy and don't want to put forth maximum effort in a competitive game mode.

Another solution is to join a pvp guild and be able to find ppl to queue with all hours of the day/night and an established voice comms channel. I promise you that you'd have a lot more fun in pvp playing this way. I've played since launch and had countless legendary nights of pvp. Not solo queuing mind you, the nights I solo queued are hard to remember. When you play with friends is when it's memorable. 

 

 

[Chryptyk]

the thing is a lot of people pvping don't really wanna be there.  the actual pvp community is pretty small.  everyone else pvping is doing it for seasons, conquest, or cheevos.  otherwise, they wouldn't be there.

[Samcuu]

1 hour ago, Chryptyk said:

the thing is a lot of people pvping don't really wanna be there.  the actual pvp community is pretty small.  everyone else pvping is doing it for seasons, conquest, or cheevos.  otherwise, they wouldn't be there.

It's quite the vicious cycle isn't it? Go into pvp just for the rewards with a low skill level, most likely not being the best at playing a class or knowing a rotation/counters to other classes. Get destroyed. Dislike pvp. As opposed to doing what I suggested. Joining a group of ppl who can help you learn to play your class better, be grouped in a comp that can help u win matches and be competitive against other premades, and actually maybe have fun and win a lot. Your choice tbh. 

[Quetzerxi]

3 hours ago, Samcuu said:

It's quite the vicious cycle isn't it? Go into pvp just for the rewards with a low skill level, most likely not being the best at playing a class or knowing a rotation/counters to other classes. Get destroyed. Dislike pvp. As opposed to doing what I suggested. Joining a group of ppl who can help you learn to play your class better, be grouped in a comp that can help u win matches and be competitive against other premades, and actually maybe have fun and win a lot. Your choice tbh. 

win dont equal learn. Only soloq ranked arenas and duels can teach you how to play

[Chryptyk]

people who don't wanna group just aren't gonna do it.  if you need a group, then you're scared you can't win on your own with a bunch of randoms.  change it so no one can queue with groups.  you can still hang out in voice and talk all the trash you want.    either that or separate the group and solo queuers and people will be happy.

[AwesomeTacoCat]

It’s a truly broken system right now. I hate queing as a group because it’s not fun just stomping everyone into the ground. But if I try to solo q I swear I get healers doing 2k hps in arenas, tanks who don’t know what guard is, and dps who basic attack. So you force us into grouping up to stomp everyone. 
 

Edit: perhaps the hidden ELO feature is to blame? If you win a bunch with a premade then solo q you’re put with idiots to create even matches? 

Edited January 14, 2023 by AwesomeTacoCat

[Samcuu]

8 hours ago, Quetzerxi said:

win dont equal learn. Only soloq ranked arenas and duels can teach you how to play

There's a difference between being carried and being taught. The reason I suggest a pvp guild is because better players aren't going to want to carry players who aren't skilled but many ppl are willing to teach other players how to be better at their class, use keybinds instead of clicking ect. 

At the end of the day iron sharpens iron so in order to advance you do need to play against better players to hone ur ability, but the more pressing need for about 90% of the player base is to raise the ceiling of the average player. Overall skill level is far too low imho.

[AwesomeTacoCat]

3 hours ago, Samcuu said:

the more pressing need for about 90% of the player base is to raise the ceiling of the average player. Overall skill level is far too low imho.

^ This. Skill gap is just far too immense most of the time these days. You get people coming in doing 6 apms. Just gotta get people to commit to actually learning the basics somehow. 

[Weswhitebore]

2 hours ago, AwesomeTacoCat said:

^ This. Skill gap is just far too immense most of the time these days. You get people coming in doing 6 apms. Just gotta get people to commit to actually learning the basics somehow. 

If only Bioware promoted their content creators, especially their PVP content creators, the same ones that when they were here, were part of their little influencer program that got left in shambles as to who was in it within the past 2 years. Maybe if they could bring that back to life and promote the people who make game life easier the skill levels would raise. Watching 1 single Mark Biggs video can teach and have taught people alot. Sadly, he is one of the best ones Swtor hurt, causing him to leave.

[Samcuu]

8 hours ago, AwesomeTacoCat said:

^ This. Skill gap is just far too immense most of the time these days. You get people coming in doing 6 apms. Just gotta get people to commit to actually learning the basics somehow. 

Funny enough this is the reason I left the satele shan sever. I mostly solo queue and it was really difficult to be facing premades when ur team hardly ever even pop dcds. The skill level on SS two years ago for the average player was already terrible. When I swapped to SF the matches were more fun, seemed like the player base was slightly better overall, and you'd get a lot of premade vs premade matches because the population was healthier. 

To me, whether intended or not, bioware with the 7.2 pvp update I think had grouping in mind. I've seen ppl on fleet asking to find pvp guilds again. In the 8 v 8 days this is where newer players could learn a lot to become more competitive in pvp. I wish I had the time to start a pvp guild up again and help and these ppl who need tips and groups so they could actually enjoy the pvp seasons. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Samcuu

[illgot]

1 hour ago, Samcuu said:

Funny enough this is the reason I left the satele shan sever. I mostly solo queue and it was really difficult to be facing premades when ur team hardly ever even pop dcds. The skill level on SS two years ago for the average player was already terrible. When I swapped to SS the matches were more fun, seemed like the player base was slightly better overall, and you'd get a lot of premade vs premade matches because the population was healthier. 

To me, whether intended or not, bioware with the 7.2 pvp update I think had grouping in mind. I've seen ppl on fleet asking to find pvp guilds again. In the 8 v 8 days this is where newer players could learn a lot to become more competitive in pvp. I wish I had the time to start a pvp guild up again and help and these ppl who need tips and groups so they could actually enjoy the pvp seasons. 

I played a few games against a premade guild that used to rank PvP on SS and just went back to SF. I won't even bother finishing the PvP season on that server. Premades against pugs is basically two levels of stupid. The first is letting premades and pugs be put up against each other. There is a reason why Team and Solo queues for ranked were separated. The second is me thinking I could get away with solo queuing for PvP.

Edited January 15, 2023 by illgot

[Dyne-]

On 1/13/2023 at 8:07 PM, Samcuu said:

Nope I'm gonna disagree, this looks like a lot of qq'ing to me. First off why penalize players who are smart and want to win? This is an mmo you group to do content it's not a solo player game. Should bioware throw pugs a bone? Sure...that bone is cross server queuing so the matchmaking has an easier time queueing premades against premades. However I'm sorry to break this to you, in the mean time because ur lazy or just don't want to group u get to be cannon fodder for the players who are outgoing and meet other players who are good, in turn group up and win easily cuz the competition is lazy and don't want to put forth maximum effort in a competitive game mode.

Another solution is to join a pvp guild and be able to find ppl to queue with all hours of the day/night and an established voice comms channel. I promise you that you'd have a lot more fun in pvp playing this way. I've played since launch and had countless legendary nights of pvp. Not solo queuing mind you, the nights I solo queued are hard to remember. When you play with friends is when it's memorable. 

Gonna go ahead and cosign this. This man gets it.

// For clarity I'm speaking to the people complaining about premades. //

99% of my PvP time is as a solo player. Playing with friends or in a PvP guild is much more enjoyable than playing solo, and I *like* playing solo. Also, playing solo has next to no bearing on my fun or my winrate.

The biggest issue these days is the skill gap. Skill is at an all-time low in this game right now. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you can't confidently win 99% of the duels you're in (regardless of the class you're fighting) you're going to have a bad time when the 8v8s start getting competitive or the premades come out. If you know the ins and outs of your class and the classes that you're playing against, then the game is pretty much cake.

Combat will become routine, and the game will only start feeling competitive when you're engaged in outnumbered fights. If you're doing it right those outnumbered fights will be *fun*. You won't be on the forums complaining about ranked players or premades because you'll realize that fighting against them is about the only time the game will be competitive. They're fun to play with and against.

Bioware doesn't need to ruin players ability to play with their friends in an MMO to appease the vocal minority on the forums that refuse to make friends, start a PvP guild, or heaven forbid get better at their respective classes. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Dyne-

[illgot]

Just now, Dyne- said:

Gonna go ahead and cosign this. This man gets it.

99% of my PvP time is as a solo player. Playing with friends or in a PvP guild is much more enjoyable than playing solo, and I *like* playing solo. Also, playing solo has next to no bearing on my fun or my winrate.

The biggest issue these days is the skill gap. Skill is at an all-time low in this game right now. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you can't confidently win 99% of the duels you're in (regardless of the class you're fighting) you're going to have a bad time when the 8v8s start getting competitive or the premades come out. If you know the ins and outs of your class and the classes that you're playing against, then the game is pretty much cake.

Combat will become routine, and the game will only start feeling competitive when you're engaged in outnumbered fights. If you're doing it right those outnumbered fights will be *fun*. You won't be on the forums complaining about ranked players or premades because you'll realize that fighting against them is about the only time the game will be competitive. They're fun to play with and against.

Bioware doesn't need to ruin players ability to play with their friends in an MMO to appease the vocal minority on the forums that refuse to make friends, start a PvP guild, or heaven forbid get better at their respective classes. 

the biggest issue is skill gap and the majority of players grouping up for PvP know what they are doing way more than a PUG. Premades also use voice chat and can coordinate their combat classes with each other for synergy. None of that exists for pugs.

Premade teams should be allowed to play... against other premades.

[DeannaVoyager]

13 hours ago, Chryptyk said:

people who don't wanna group just aren't gonna do it.  if you need a group, then you're scared you can't win on your own with a bunch of randoms.  change it so no one can queue with groups.  you can still hang out in voice and talk all the trash you want.    either that or separate the group and solo queuers and people will be happy.

Back in the days when I used to pvp, we usually had a group of 5-6 people playing together. We weren't able to group up and include everyone, so we all just queued solo while talking trash in voice. It made it also very interesting because we had friends and enemies in same voice chat, and everyone was having fun. Everyone - even the losing team. 

 

 

[Alphex]

On 1/14/2023 at 4:07 AM, Samcuu said:

Nope I'm gonna disagree, this looks like a lot of qq'ing to me. First off why penalize players who are smart and want to win? This is an mmo you group to do content it's not a solo player game. Should bioware throw pugs a bone? Sure...that bone is cross server queuing so the matchmaking has an easier time queueing premades against premades. However I'm sorry to break this to you, in the mean time because ur lazy or just don't want to group u get to be cannon fodder for the players who are outgoing and meet other players who are good, in turn group up and win easily cuz the competition is lazy and don't want to put forth maximum effort in a competitive game mode.

Another solution is to join a pvp guild and be able to find ppl to queue with all hours of the day/night and an established voice comms channel. I promise you that you'd have a lot more fun in pvp playing this way. I've played since launch and had countless legendary nights of pvp. Not solo queuing mind you, the nights I solo queued are hard to remember. When you play with friends is when it's memorable. 

I don't think the goal of pvp is to group up and have easy victories. Solo and group pvp should be separated.

[Samcuu]

30 minutes ago, Alphex said:

I don't think the goal of pvp is to group up and have easy victories. Solo and group pvp should be separated.

You missed my point. It's not about easy victories it's about experienced players helping inexperienced players learn how to play their class and bring the average skill level up a few notches. Teaching a man how to fish instead of giving him a fish ect. Again nobody is interested in carrying bad players. I'd love to group with some players who might not be the most skilled, need some guidance, but are interested and have fun in pvp. The better u get the more fun it becomes. Queuing just to get the rewards will get old after a while. 

Doesn't matter if ur in a group if ur not good at pvp. I saw an 8 man guild premade the other night and my team of pugs 3 capped them in a civil war lol.  So yeah grouping just to group doesn't work...