Premades ruin PvP

[TrixxieTriss]

33 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

Yep it's happened to me a few times, although i certainly didn't feel  "poor"  nor  "stuck" .

Silly me, i really enjoy winning matches & medals way more than i do losing.

p.s. Best part about being queue-placed onto premade is:  No one talks in chat.  They just go about their business of playing the game, focus firing their targets, and shielding their healer (me) .  Hey RNG queue-gods: Feel free to label me "carried"  all day and twice on sunday, no prob!

Now imagine being put on a team with 7 people in a premade who don’t play to win 😞

That also happens sometimes & they drag out the whole match longer than it needs to just to farm kills. To eventually lose because they can’t even leave one team member to guard a node or come help when you’re solo guarding the only node you have.

Its a complete waste of your time being stuck with these guys. And I do use the word “stuck” because if you leave, you end up with a time out. 

Is that the norm? I honestly can’t say. But it does happen & it doesn’t make what I said previously any less relevant just because your premades carried you.

At the end of the day, that other poster has consistently spread misinformation through out this thread. But you want to make a point about my post for saying someone is “stuck” because they got put with a 7 man premade 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Nee-Elder]

14 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

. But you want to call me out for saying someone is “stuck” because they got put with a 7 man premade .

Wasn't  calling you out, Trixx.

Just used your quote to make an alternative point....and to make a funny.

14 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

And do you play pvp to be carried or do you play to have competitive fun?

How 'bout a mix of both?  ( btw, truth is everyone is carried by eachother in MMO's governed by the 'holy trinity' of tank-->healer-->dps )

Winning is fun.  It's supposed to be a MMO (group) video game after all.

14 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Where is the fun being ignored by your team mates & letting them do everything like you’re not even part of the team

Not sure if you read my reply ( or even if you're referring to my specific example ) but in my few times, i wasn't "ignored" .  To the contrary:  i was included.  After keeping a them alive longer with heals, aka doing my job, i remember a couple times when 1 premade even cleared a path so i could click/unlock every door in Voidstar to the very last terminal.

Again, it was just simply FUN.  A nice change of pace from the typical solo randomosity atrosity.

( i still think the 'matchmaking' algorithm should be tweaked a bit though, as i've already mentioned before )

Edited February 16, 2023 by Nee-Elder
Reason: nuance is so very difficult to articulate sometimes

[meddani]

1 hour ago, Whiteprince said:

Do you personally play 8 man premade wz? 

i like how you didn't even back up your claim because you know it's rubbish lol.

trixxie is right and you're wrong.

[_Miriya_]

I hope something finally is resolved with this subject that has been around since ever. 

As part of balancing pvp and making it more open.

And no, it doesnt mean that premades are bad, or that "making friends" is bad. Just separate the queues so everybody can have a more balanced experience, premades aswell.

[Grindnmosh]

@biowaredevs just look at data between matches that had a premade and matches that didnt and tell me which matches were most balanced. TBH you already have and know and dont care.

[Peiper-kgr-gd]

Please Bioware remove this premade listing from solo q , there is no fun anymore in PvP

thanks

[Tharianus]

No they do not! 🤷‍♂️

[ZUHFB]

On 2/18/2023 at 1:05 PM, Tharianus said:

No they do not! 🤷‍♂️

the fact that this thread has 8 pages proves players think it is an issue and are willing to go out of their way to represent that opinion

my opinion is that its not my problem how to solve this, I don't want to be against a premade FULLSTOP, nothing more should be needed

all points for premades are made by people looking for easy wins, its not that all premades are bad - it's that some are! No thank you, I don't want a challenge in normal games to beat people I have played against in ranked for years in a 1v4, its a pointless endeavor and typing /stuck as to not validate the match. I want a challenge, I want ranked. People who say "they are just afraid of a challenge" are weird, where were they when ranked was there huh?

premades like mvp, q-sync are pathetic - I do understand why people like vlad premade when they're healing. Being a healer and queueing with a friend is fine, I don't want to heal people actively trying to die neither

but again, its not my problem how to fix it, I just don't want 15minutes of my in game time wasted by people who think everyone is bad and meanwhile they hide behind their group, just not fun.

[SoontirMorillo]

30 minutes ago, ZUHFB said:

the fact that this thread has 8 pages proves players think it is an issue and are willing to go out of their way to represent that opinion

dude, please... we have this discussion since game launch. we have multiple threads about premades ruining the game, way over 8 pages long, way over 50 pages long, way over 100 pages long.

and this prove only one thing... individuals - not "players" - are complaining since a decade... and bioware deems this topic not important enough to act. most likely their choice is backed up by a ton of metrics.

just because 15 individuals discuss in a circle on 8 pages on the forums means nothing, when we have a thousand daily pvp'ers, that simply don't care, and no metric shows any decline in participation or displeasure.

[ZUHFB]

20 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

and no metric shows any decline in participation

except that steam charts are still dropping, so yes if we ignore the data then there is no problem at hand

and also, why try to change something? why vote? you're one voice won't make the difference? Why live even, not like any of us will be remembered 50 years after we die? its a problem I see and I want to change premades vs. solos, that is why we are typing, you don't make laws with direct vote of everybody, you listen to expert opinions and then things change... or something

[SoontirMorillo]

1 hour ago, ZUHFB said:

except that steam charts are still dropping, so yes if we ignore the data then there is no problem at hand

Steam charts showing a drop since BioWare announced a push back one week before the release of 7.0. They delivered 2 months later with only 2 hours of content, followed by another half year of content drought.

The connection you want to make with this and the pvp changes is marginal and most likely caused by ranked players dropping the game, and not some regstars leaving. Players finished GS and are leaving, is a reasonable explanation for still dwindling numbers.

It's one thing to look at data and another thing to interpret the data correctly. Again... we have 11 years with premades in pvp... since 11 years individuals are complaining... nothing changed with 7.x. Nothing.

The only thing that changed is, that they added rewards and you feel entitled to finish the season in half the time like Über-PvP-Pros. You are not leet, you need longer. There is no problem here. This is a personal issue.

Of course you can voice your resentment, but stop pretending you are anywhere near a majority.

The pvp community is only a small part of this game. And even in the pvp community itself your opinion is only a small part. We most likely have more casuals and f2p in lowbie playing, than players sharing your exact opinion on this topic.

Just because you are the loudest with your opinion doesn't make it the majority.

Edited February 19, 2023 by SoontirMorillo
additional thoughts

[AwesomeTacoCat]

1 hour ago, SoontirMorillo said:

Of course you can voice your resentment, but stop pretending you are anywhere near a majority.

The pvp community is only a small part of this game. And even in the pvp community itself your opinion is only a small part. We most likely have more casuals and f2p in lowbie playing, than players sharing your exact opinion on this topic.

Just because you are the loudest with your opinion doesn't make it the majority.

Err, go read this thread? By my rough estimate there are about 5 times as many people who think we need a solo q and that premades are a problem than there are people who think premades are beneficial for the game. 

[ZUHFB]

1 hour ago, SoontirMorillo said:

The only thing that changed is, that they added rewards and you feel entitled to finish the season in half the time like Über-PvP-Pros. You are not leet, you need longer. There is no problem here. This is a personal issue.

Entitled to rewards I already had to buy with the extra few million tokens I had left! Wow, so great! I don't give two cents for the pvp season, it is a COMPLETE EMBARRASSMENT that rewards we earned over years and seasons are now thrown at ever kek who bought 1b from third party sides, or more unrealisitic but equally as bad, bioware.

I just don't want to be against a premade. Even if I lose, even if its pointless to play the match, I will try as long as it isn't a premade. Its just not fun and it is wasting my time.

Just name one benefit premades have? Ah playing with your friends! So you had no friends when there was teamranked??? Where were you? Ah didn't want to get farmed by players whose names only 5 people still know because they quit and now I have to battle a 1v4 against these... these... I don't even know, weird premades who do 8k DPS. How is teamranked being the DEADEST gamemode in SWTOR not prove of premades not being a thing. The only reason premades are currently popular is because the players in them are bad (or Kyu) and still want wins.

Nobody playing against Quanny, Rofl, Terssa and Neavi (except Shaloms Team) is EXACTLY the same as premades in arenas. I do not want to get farmed, why would that be fun? Just like nobody wanted to get farmed by them, because its just not fun. No I don't stand a chance in a 1v4 and no SMW wintrading didn't stand a chance vs. Quanny/Shaloms team. Its no different.

Could I have made a teamranked team? Sure, but why bother I could just not play. So why bother making a premade now when I could just not play. I'm sure more people quitting (and all the RMT involved with the following account selling) is just amazing for the game! Premades are very actively killing the game! And honestly at this point for good.

[RikuvonDrake]

just vote with your wallet, BioWare thinks this should be an MMO with the multiplayer part being emphasised, if you prefer it being a single-player game with only solo queue and not promoting friends grouping up and doing content together, vote with your wallet

a couple of regulars here got ~20 forum posts about this topic, and if you agree or disagree with the system BioWare introduces matters very little if you keep paying for their product

[TrixxieTriss]

6 hours ago, SoontirMorillo said:

dude, please... we have this discussion since game launch. we have multiple threads about premades ruining the game, way over 8 pages long, way over 50 pages long, way over 100 pages long.

and this prove only one thing... individuals - not "players" - are complaining since a decade... and bioware deems this topic not important enough to act. most likely their choice is backed up by a ton of metrics.

just because 15 individuals discuss in a circle on 8 pages on the forums means nothing, when we have a thousand daily pvp'ers, that simply don't care, and no metric shows any decline in participation or displeasure.

By premade players own admissions in the other thread, there aren’t that many premades. So you’re actually arguing that the minority of players should be considered ahead of the majority. What makes you so special that BioWare should only listen to your wishes ahead of the majority of other players. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Edited February 20, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[ZUHFB]

3 hours ago, RikuvonDrake said:

a couple of regulars here got ~20 forum posts about this topic, and if you agree or disagree with the system BioWare introduces matters very little if you keep paying for their product

very funny, this is why I don't like you anymore, the stuff you say here vs voice vs theorycrafters varies so much I have no idea if you really think any of it

if anything the premades should unsub, pvp literally f2p and its not like they need gear to win a 1v4

2 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

By premade players own admissions in the other thread, there aren’t that many premades. So you’re actually arguing that the minority of players should be considered ahead of the majority. What makes you so special that BioWare should only listen to your wishes ahead of the majority of other players. 🤷🏻‍♀️

But the other people don't say anything! So clearly they like losing because they choose to queue solo, an option we HAD which got taken away because of combat styles, isn't that just great /s

[Crystal_Mind]

I think when we talk about premades, there needs to be more nuance than "premades are always bad." There are different kinds of premades (size and form), and their impact on 4s is different than their impact on 8s.

In Arenas: I do agree that these should be solo-queue, but I'd grudgingly settle for a 2-man limit given BW's clear inclination to push coordinated group play.

In Warzones: I have yet to encounter an 8-man premade. I believe they do exist, but the most I see with any regularity are 6-mans, and there's usually only one, or maybe 2 of those in queue. It's always the same folks. I see one of them and I know the other 5 aren't far behind. Far more frequently I see 2-3 man groups, which I don't consider problematic. (Disclaimer: I've done a fair bit of pair-queuing for 8s this 'season.' Part of the reason I don't think this is an issue is because more than half the time I can ID another premade pair on the other team. When you queue as a 2-man, the matchmaking does seem to work in that regard.)

Again, for warzones, I think limiting premades to half the size of a full team would ease the pressure a bit. I don't think there's any reason to eliminate premades in 8s entirely.

[Grindnmosh]

premades farming solo queues because they can is the problem

 

premade farm groups are queue killers

Edited February 21, 2023 by Grindnmosh

[darksidenerd]

On 2/19/2023 at 6:33 PM, TrixxieTriss said:

 What makes you so special that BioWare should only listen to your wishes ahead of the majority of other players. 🤷🏻‍♀️

What makes you think the majority of other players agree that premades are a huge problem? 
 I now say, "we're so good they're callin' us premade" after every win match in pvp. lol.  

Because of all of this, now pug teams that have solid solo players will be called premades in a derogatory manner. out of control.

[Chryptyk]

I don't know how it happened, but the other day i was in a hypergate and the other team had 2 healers and really good dps.  my team had none.  i know not all 8 of them were queuing together, but most of them had to be if they got 2 healers and we got none.  we barely got any kills and basically just got farmed.  So i decided to take a break to try to get out of queue sync with them.  a lot of people do the same thing when they know premades are around.  it kills the queue.

nobody has fun getting farmed.  large premades are quite ridiculous.  matches should be somewhat even.  5m+ premades should be disallowed, and it should be shrunk back to 4m at least, and give premades their own queue.  that would make the matches more even for them.

the queue supposedly should give us even matches, but that just isn't the case when premades are around.  when they are around, the system just puts randoms together to force the queue to pop.  quality matches would be more fun than forcing a match to happen, just to make it happen.

[AwesomeTacoCat]

5 hours ago, darksidenerd said:

What makes you think the majority of other players agree that premades are a huge problem? 
 I now say, "we're so good they're callin' us premade" after every win match in pvp. lol.  

Because of all of this, now pug teams that have solid solo players will be called premades in a derogatory manner. out of control.

If you go read through this thread and count the number of people who are arguing that premades are a big problem vs the number of people who do not think premades are a big problem you will find that there are for more people on the forums arguing that they are a big problem. 
 

The forums are not not necessarily a representative sample, but unless we get some sort of survey from BioWare it’s the best gauge we have. 

[SoontirMorillo]

39 minutes ago, AwesomeTacoCat said:

If you go read through this thread and count the number of people who are arguing that premades are a big problem vs the number of people who do not think premades are a big problem you will find that there are for more people on the forums arguing that they are a big problem. 

dude... the majority of people in this thread are not the majority of the playerbase. if 30 people are the majority of pvp players, we have like 50 players left in the game.

people, who want to complain are always more active on forums, than players, who just enjoy the game. just because you sit here in your circle whining, doesn't mean at all, you have any kind of majority.

[ZUHFB]

6 minutes ago, SoontirMorillo said:

dude... the majority of people in this thread are not the majority of the playerbase. if 30 people are the majority of pvp players, we have like 50 players left in the game.

people, who want to complain are always more active on forums, than players, who just enjoy the game. just because you sit here in your circle whining, doesn't mean at all, you have any kind of majority.

yeah all the other players just love dying to premades, I also love hairs in my soup and scratches on my car! 

Nobody ever is complaining about scratches on their car, just because the people that have scratches are complaining doesn't make them the majority and therefor everyone loves scratches on their car 

[Sappharan]

3 hours ago, SoontirMorillo said:

dude... the majority of people in this thread are not the majority of the playerbase. if 30 people are the majority of pvp players, we have like 50 players left in the game.

people, who want to complain are always more active on forums, than players, who just enjoy the game. just because you sit here in your circle whining, doesn't mean at all, you have any kind of majority.

This is precisely why a poll is needed. 

Though if even 1/3 of the players are complaining about 8 man premades it means there is a problem.  It means the system is alienating a significant number of the player base, but it would be difficult to argue for an overhaul of the current system if we're that small a minority of the players.  However, the limited number of players posting in support of 8 man premades compared with those that do not favor them leads me to believe that we're overwhelmingly the majority.  My guess is you sense it too, which is why you're adamantly against it.  

Plead your case, and we'll plead ours.  Let the poll commence and let's see what the numbers are.  Honestly, whatever happens I am cool with it because if it goes against my wishes, I will leave the game entirely and remember it fondly.  If it goes my way, great.  Maybe then Bioware will reverse its terrible decision and I get to enjoy pvp again.  I simply want a solid decision one way or the other so I know whether or not the game is worth my attention anymore.

[AwesomeTacoCat]

4 hours ago, SoontirMorillo said:

dude... the majority of people in this thread are not the majority of the playerbase. if 30 people are the majority of pvp players, we have like 50 players left in the game.

people, who want to complain are always more active on forums, than players, who just enjoy the game. just because you sit here in your circle whining, doesn't mean at all, you have any kind of majority.

Please don’t misrepresent my post by quoting the first half and then not quoting the second half where I specifically acknowledge that the set of people on the forums may not be a representative sample. 
 

Moreover, it’s not necessarily clear that there would be an over-representation of people who dislike the current pvp system on the forums. It’s why we need some sort of poll.