Are all MMO games doomed to die or can the tide be changed

[Lethality]

Please cite your information before stating it as fact.

 

Common sense.

[Halofax]

Lol going f2p is fail.

 

But for GW2 starting F2P is win.

 

ETA

 

LOOOGICCCC

Edited February 16, 2012 by Halofax

[DarthRavnos]

MMO Trends (good as of May 2011 ish timeframe)

 

http://www.interpretllc.com/_downloads/LA-Games-Conference-Presentation.pdf

 

A minor downward trend of like 7% (slide 5). And honestly that could be economic because F2P MMO's are up 16% (slide 5).

 

MMORPG's as a whole are all dying off (FACT). The idea was great 15 years ago (FACT). But not much has changed and 80% of the player base who play them are bored(OPINION).

 

I mean look at this game for instance. It is a little kiddy clone of WOW (FACT). In other words its the same ole same ole over and over and over again. I call that boring (OPINION).

 

Everyone will level up and get bored (EXADURATED OPINION). A new MMORPG will be released again and everyone will leave here chasing the next flavor of the month (EXADURATED OPINION).

 

I think the whole entire MMORPG is a dying trend (FACT BASED ON CURRENT FINANCIAL DATA). This game is a perfect example. It has only been out 7 weeks and already a mass exodus has taken place because mostly people are bored with it (OPINION BASED ON FORUMS AND PEOPLE I KNOW).

 

Just my opinion backed up by some facts.(QFE "SOME FACTS")

 

Have a great day!

 

EA has only released their first quarter financial data. Without a second quarter release to compare against you can't prove this. He/she has no clue what they are talking about.

[VladMorbius]

You did not comprehend what I said.

 

I did state every class can be one of those things (but they can't do it all at once), thus organized guilds will designate who does what.

 

You two will tank first, then you two will swap.

 

etc...

 

/sigh

 

Wrong again, all classes can take agro, heal themselves and others and do damage. Yes some can take damage a little better etc. but they can do all 3 elements at any given time and on the fly. You are the one who doesn't want your eyes opened. Will some groups continue to play like it’s a trinity based game, of course but it’s only because they don’t know any better that will likely change with time spent in the game. They have clearly stated that any group of 5 meaning all 5 can be cloth wearing Mesmers can do any dungeon; it does not have to be an assortment. Will some combinations clear content better, likely but it is vastly different from the traditional role of tank, healer, dps, which is why it cannot be defined as a trinity based system.

[Napalmbrain]

I don't see how this theme park formula can stay around much longer.

 

Then again i am clearly in the minority when i say sandbox is the future of MMO's.

 

SWG was a giant leap forward in MMOs, and no one has dared to go that route again and it makes me sad.

 

I was certain that was the future but rather than evolving I guess were gonna live in the past.

[Halofax]

Wrong again, all classes can take agro, heal themselves and others and do damage. Yes some can take damage a little better etc. but they can do all 3 elements at any given time and on the fly. You are the one who doesn't want your eyes opened. Will some groups continue to play like it’s a trinity based game, of course but it’s only because they don’t know any better that will likely change with time spent in the game. They have clearly stated that any group of 5 meaning all 5 can be cloth wearing Mesmers can do any dungeon; it does not have to be an assortment. Will some combinations clear content better, likely but it is vastly different from the traditional role of tank, healer, dps, which is why it cannot be defined as a trinity based system.

 

So a game about doing dungeons is somehow different because any class can do anything?

 

Wasnt that called Champions Online last year?

[DarthKhaos]

It looks like all new MMO's that are hitting the market are all doomed to live short lives.

What do you feel could change the tide? What would keep you captivated to swtor for the rest of your life?

 

I don't mean things like fix bugs, dual spec, frame rate issues, add ons, a thousand more etc ... but what is the innovative touch that can give MMO a decade life spam.

 

Just some examples:

 

Should it become a true social network, creating a facebook environment inside swtor, allowing to do all the cool things you can do in facebook.

 

or what about having your desktop incorporated inside swtor allowing you to browse, email, skype, etc ... do all the cool things you do on your computer but then inside the Galaxy

 

.....

Part of the problem is that the player base has become a group of "must have now". At one point in time players used to look at an MMO and say "This is a good start. Let's help them make this into what we want." Now it's more of "This sucks, I'm bored. I quit." Then proceeds to spend what remaining time they have left to drag the game name through the mud with a bunch of non constructive posts.

 

I will never say this game is perfect however it's a great start. If by the 6 month mark the stuff players do suggest aren't in even partly then it's the devs fault the game crashes and burns. Players say they don't like the current LFG Tool, fine a new one can't come about tomorrow you know. Character responsiveness is an issue to some, can't flip a switch or it'd of been on before and you wouldn't have the issue in the first place.

 

We've seen BioWare fix bugs and start addressing issues from the jump and if you think "They should of fixed it before release." you are sadly uninformed about the nature of programming. Ever proof read something you wrote 10 times see nothing wrong with it and then someone else looks at it once and points out what appears to be an obvious typo? Ya it's like that. This game is pretty stable for a new release. I recall other games where servers were down for days at a time, not a % of players can't log on. Game servers CRASHED HARD. Bugs so bad that you can't even do anything, not that it's an inconvenience. I laugh when people say the new cooldown graphics makes the game unplayable. These are the things that I find funny.

 

My biggest gripe however is the design flaws in the windows and interface. Stuff like having a reset button under where your dropdown selections are so if you happen to accidentally double click EVERYTHING resets. Warning and notices are same color and font. I accidentally destroyed a piece of equipment because I placed it in the wrong slot and it asked me if I want to destroy it when it looked almost identical to if I want to equip this window. Granted I should of looked at the message closer but it's be a lot easier for me to notice I was going to perform a potentially undesirable act by putting the text in say red or something.

 

Just my 2 credits.

[VladMorbius]

So a game about doing dungeons is somehow different because any class can do anything?

 

Wasnt that called Champions Online last year?

 

By that logic this game is WoW isn't it? Besides if you aren't going to read the statement in the context in which it was written, any generalization can be made.

[Selaik]

The facts are , The generation that pushed MMO's is getting older , we use to play board games and D&D , it was a natural progression for us to love the idea of a MMO , and we did.

 

Todays gamers that are in there prime want "boom head shot" games , the whole idea of what an MMO should be is not there idea of fun , so yes I believe MMO' s are doomed , not right away they will hang on , but there are more years behind us then in front IMHO.

[Truga]

I don't see how this theme park formula can stay around much longer.

 

Then again i am clearly in the minority when i say sandbox is the future of MMO's.

 

SWG was a giant leap forward in MMOs, and no one has dared to go that route again and it makes me sad.

 

I was certain that was the future but rather than evolving I guess were gonna live in the past.

 

UO was the first MMO. It's completely sandbox. SWG didn't do any leaps. Theme park MMOs came later, and some of them were actually good. However, even those were more like hybrids. They all featured persistent worlds with no instances. Which meant you had to fight other people to down a boss, you had to fight other people to capture a castle, etc.

 

And this is still the only type of game that can stay fun for years. I can't imagine staying with SWTOR once I've finished all the content there is to see.. Whereas Quake, UO, and EVE I've played for years before quitting. Games where players _are_ the content just last longer.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Truga

[Ratior]

For a MMORPG to make it's targeted profits, one of the job of the developers is to keep the players happy and yearning for more, and not to split established communities.

 

Bioware-beware of this.

[Jederix]

Ofc, GW2 aint SWTOR where You dont meet anybody since everything is instanced.

 

GW2 will actually have the biggest mmo aspects from all mmos. No stealing mobs/loots. When You will see a player You will actually welcome it (with all the cross prof combos etc).

 

Anyway, I aint here to convince anybody. I think its worth looking into.

 

Plus base game mechanics are something devs cant lie about cause if it wont be in the game on launch, ppl just wont play it

 

You've already overhyped the game in your mind. Disappointment incoming.

[musicmann]

The facts are , The generation that pushed MMO's is getting older , we use to play board games and D&D , it was a natural progression for us to love the idea of a MMO , and we did.

 

Todays gamers that are in there prime want "boom head shot" games , the whole idea of what an MMO should be is not there idea of fun , so yes I believe MMO' s are doomed , not right away they will hang on , but there are more years behind us then in front IMHO.

 

 

So true. It's the same in any form of entertainment. Take music for example. The music scene back in the 70's, 80's and 90's are much different than today. Things move forward but at the same time don't progress. They change and keep the same name but internally they are very different.

[Nighthawked]

Wrong again, all classes can take agro, heal themselves and others and do damage. Yes some can take damage a little better etc. but they can do all 3 elements at any given time and on the fly. You are the one who doesn't want your eyes opened. Will some groups continue to play like it’s a trinity based game, of course but it’s only because they don’t know any better that will likely change with time spent in the game. They have clearly stated that any group of 5 meaning all 5 can be cloth wearing Mesmers can do any dungeon; it does not have to be an assortment. Will some combinations clear content better, likely but it is vastly different from the traditional role of tank, healer, dps, which is why it cannot be defined as a trinity based system.

 

You need to read what he is saying. There is a reason why people use the "trinity" is because it is good strategy. No guild will say just attack whoever and however you want. There should always be tank/healer/dps.

 

I have been able to get buy without tanks or healers a few times in this game and in WoW.

 

This is one of the thins I hate about MMOs these days, and with random grouping like in WoW. The tank would just go ahead and attack the next group without waiting for the rest of us to be ready (heal, gain mana or whatever, and worry about strategy). This is why I am glad my friend (who played WoW since TBC) is a tank primarily and I am a healer primarily. It really annoys me the way some people play this game and WoW.

 

So bottom line: you could get by with all 5 DPS, but a better strategy would be to have a tank or healer to make it easier.

[kufa]

When games become pure business without the slightest thought of customer satisfaction (e.g. an understaffed customer service) the games will obviously be barely finished enough to release with all shortcuts imaginable accounted for to maximize the short term profit.

[SeloDaoC]

When developers start listening to veteran mmo players from the uo, eq, daoc, ac time about what makes the genre good, instead of trying to get a part of the wow community by taking everything from that game, then maybe the genre can become good again

[Esquire]

WoW clones seems to be the problem for me. If it's WoW with lightsabers, WoW with rifts, WoW with gore, it all ends up being a WoW clone and is severly lacking. Why would any1 leave WoW, with it's 8 years of post launch content and additions to start the entire process all over again? And if they do, will it be just to level, get bored, and return back to WoW? Some players in the MMO world may not like it but the competition and the comparable is with WoW and any new game that grabs onto WoW's skirt-tails and tries the exact same thing over and over and over will be found lacking in that comparable. Found lacking by the people that chose to not play WoW (due to the fact they didn't like WoW in the 1st place) and found lacking by the people that do play WoW (that there just isn't the same amount of polish, content, gameplay where they started), all for the same exact price tag (15 a month).

 

While I couldn't get thru the 30 days that came with the box in 06 in WoW (after the NGE as I'm just probably a little too old to play games with elves in them) Bliz seems to run a bad game (my opinion) exceptionaly well. They add content, they have the man power to do these things, and they at least make the attempt to keep up with players. However, even Bliz can not satisfy the appetite of players for new content. I see it with my 32 year old son who is an avid WoW player. He quickly subs at an expansion, barrels thru the content that took devs months or even a year to get out in a matter of weeks to a month or 2 and unsubs until the next expansion to do it all over again.

 

Themepark MMOs have an end just like console games. We (players) still say an MMO is neverending due to past Koster-esq sandbox games like UO and SWG. It was said for many a year in SWG that leveling was a necesary evil and the game began at 90. In all of these WoW clones, leveling IS the entire game and anything like raids, gear grinds, pvp instances etc are just thrown in as a afterthought for something to say they have player retention and an end game. You "play the game" in a themepark, you "live" in a sandbox.

 

Probably the best game would be the best of both worlds. A leveling experience like TOR along with living in the game after the leveling experience. Personaly, I'd rather fight a lion in a telephone booth that level 2, 6, or 16 alts even if the story is different for each one. Questing, no matter how much you spice it up, is still go here, kill amount, click on amount of "flashys", return, get reward. Adding some different movies in does not change that one bit. Neither does it apply towards player retention due to the fact that leveling is a great experience. When it's done, it's done.

 

I think my 1st "gotcha" monent for me via TOR was way before launch when a developer was asked the question of "what is there to do end-game?" and the answer was "re-roll".

Edited February 16, 2012 by Esquire

[Sir-Phobos]

MMOs these days are designed in such a way that most players can see all there is to see in the game within a couple months, whereas in games like Everquest and Asheron's Call if you played for three months you were still a newbie, and seeing everything the game had to offer would take most people an extremely large amount of time.

 

What attracted me to games like EQ and AC was that they were games that didn't end, games like Zelda and Final Fantasy you play and beat, then probably don't touch it again for several years then you might play it again. MMOs these days have a clear and well defined "end" that is easily attainable in a short amount of time even by the most casual player, which is why there hasn't been a MMO in years that has been able to keep my interest more than a few months.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Sir-Phobos

[Holden_Dissent]

The only game that died that I can remember is Tabula Rasa. Maybe Planetside ended too early, but a sequel is in the works.

[Esquire]

The only game that died that I can remember is Tabula Rasa. Maybe Planetside ended too early, but a sequel is in the works.

 

I believe they just killed Earthrise this week in fact. No notice, just a message that the servers were shutting down. Several games have shut down. SWG was shut down last Dec, 1 day before the official launch of TOR.

[grandmthethird]

all MMO's are not doomed to die.

 

all MMO players are doomed to go off MMO's given enough time.

 

this is not a problem tho. as vets get bored and leave, noobs take up the challange of an MMO. and in time the noobs are no longer noobs and are pretty decent players, and given a bit more time these players become your vets. and just a little bit more time for them to become bored vets that leave. and they are replaced with more noobs. and the cycle begins again

 

this cycle is already visible with this game, the amout of vets complaining is amazing. but it is countered with the amount of noobs that are enjoying the game. of course this is just one more thing for the vets to complain about

 

i hear things like:

 

"too many noobs pulling groups of mobs, when they are not the tank"

 

or

 

"you noobs need to learn to team, this is not a single player its an MMO"

 

this is proof that the Noobs are here and enjoying the game. and in time they will learn to team well. vets forget they were noobs once. and it takes time to figure out how to do a flashpoint or what hate is and how it works. but they will figure it out in time

 

so are MMOs dying ??? no. ppl just out grow them. but ppl are replaced, so MMO live on

[Holden_Dissent]

I believe they just killed Earthrise this week in fact. No notice, just a message that the servers were shutting down. Several games have shut down. SWG was shut down last Dec, 1 day before the official launch of TOR.

 

I would expect a game like SWG to eventually end. But it didn't die per say. It was out for forever. I've never even heard of Earthrise. gonna go check it out.

[otakuon]

Saying that MMOs are failing because every one of them is just like WoW is not a good enough reason. If you are going to take that logic, then you have to say that MMOs fail because they are too much like RPGs which is silly because these games ARE RPGs. WoW didn't invent XP, or leveling, or unlocking new abilities, or gear, or quests, or NPCs, or hack-n-slash gameplay...those are all fundamental aspects of any traditional RPG, both analog and digital.

 

Quite frankly, large scale MMOs will die because of us, the gamers. We just don't have the patience anymore to commit to a single, long term product which is what an MMO as a genre was originally designed to be. Eventually, there will just be niche MMOs like EvE with small subscriber bases and an endless stream of F2P games that are smaller and lighter in content so that when we get bored with one we just move on to the next one a month or two later. The number of gammers who are willing to commit to an MMO and help build a community is dwindling and this is what will kill off MMOs as we know it. Sure, part of it is the game industries "fault" for saturating the game market with high quality games. But it is us, as gamers, who have allowed ourselves to become distracted while and perpetually disappointed as we endlessly seek the "next big thing".

Edited February 16, 2012 by otakuon

[marshalleck]

Sure, part of it is the game industries "fault" for saturating the game market with high quality games.

 

Oh, we can only wish that were the problem.

[musicmann]

What's really is amazing is that a low budget sandbox game like minecraft can draw in 241 million log in's a month and all these other mmoprg's that cost in the millions are having so much trouble. It goes to show, that people really want freedom to do things in a virtual world even if the game has low 1980's polygon textures and models. The best of both worlds for any mmorpg even TOR would have been the better direction to take in my opinion. Like i posted already. Let the fighters and moisture farmers coexist in the same Galaxy.