I think i will keep my Revan look for my Sith Sin.

You played SWG NGE and that was totally different game than SWG pre-cu. What you played was just a step or two better than TOR and that ain't saying much. If you never played in the beginning, you will never understand or get it.

What you just posted was how Bioware said they were gonna do things. On a few occasions, they said that TOR would meet somewhere in the middle of themepark and sandbox. They touted how big the planets were and talked about how a player could just wander off in any direction and explore. When i first bought into TOR i imagined a good story while leveling and open worlds to explore and socialize in. Bioware kept the damn game so tight under wraps for so long, they never really let the masses see under the hood to how the game really was built. So of course once you jump in the story captured you and sucked you in, but it didn't take very long to see that the game was heavily tilted toward the themepark side and the sandbox they said that was gonna be in the game was nonexistent. So with that being said, i have to go with SWG. I made my own SW content and never wanted to log off. Can't say that for TOR.

But, but, we have story and more story and then when that's done, even more story. Half *** is just what it is and there's no turning back. Whatever they did to modify the Hero Engine, they threw out the good systems and created a bunch of shoe boxed ones and put them in there place.

But, but, we have story and more story and then when that's done, even more story. Half *** is just what it is and there's no turning back. Whatever they did to modify the Hero Engine, they threw out the good systems and created a bunch of shoe boxed ones and put them in there place.

Look at it this way. A Ferrari, has tires, windows, brakes and headlights, those are standard, but the core component that makes that car, is it's engine. i can look at a Yugo and it too has the standards, but you can never mistake the engine with that of a Ferrari. Bioware not only left out the most basic features of an mmo, they had a unique opportunity and the financial resources to have that Ferrari engine, but instead chose a the Yugo one. Everyone has differing opinions, and the themepark vs sandbox will rage on until the end of time. The problem with this game however, is that they said the game would land somewhere in the middle between those two playstyles and it doesn't. It actually brings themepark playstyle and on rails to a whole other level and not in a good way.

The problem is, TOR has no social/community systems. The game has all those empty cantina's that would be perfect for socializing if the game has social professions that would let players interact with each other in out of combat activities. The game is all kill, kill, kill and nothing else. The planets are stale and lifeless and has zero exploration. There's so many things this game could of been or should of been, but it's not and that's the real shame of it all.

You're a little off. 1st, themepark is not a genre, MMORPG's are. Themepark is just a term for how the core systems within a mmorpg are set up. I really believe that a lot of folks are venting, including myself, because, Bioware is selling a SPG with online functions as a mmorpg with a monthly subscription. This game could have been so much more, but Bioware took the easy route and what we have now is a game that does not do the SW IP justice, my opinion only. Like i said before, they created KOTOR 3 thru 10 but not a true mmorpg.

Man, you need to stop drinking the Bioware kool-aid. This game lacks so much of the important stuff under the hood, it's not even funny. The core systems, it seems, were built for a SPG instead of a mmorpg. The SW IP is much to deep and rich, to be setup on the hard rails that plagues this game. With Devs that actually worked on the original SWG, you would think that they would have incorporated more social/community building systems, since that and the very deep crafting, kept that game alive for 8 yrs, even after the NGE debacle. I keep saying it and will not shy away from it. If they would have taken the social, the crafting and the overt/covert pvp systems, tweaked them and implemented them into huge open planets, that feel alive and are really immersive, this game would have been a homerun on many levels.

You hit it perfect. TOR just does not feel like a real mmorpg. Like i posted a few times before. Bioware said they were creating KOTOR 3 thru 10. They delivered on that and have done it well. What they did that was a mistake, in my opinion, is not call TOR for what it really is, and that's a single player game with online functions. If i can look back and say that WOW had a more open and living feeling to the game world, then in my book that really doesn't make TOR look that good. The Game lacks depth and a sense of community. It's all themepark and not enough sandbox. In the end, i really think that Bioware should have made it BTP, just like GW2. The initial $60.00 is worth every penny, but to pay a monthly fee, really makes Bioware look like they tried to pull the wool over the consumers eyes.

It's anti social because of the way Bioware set up the game itself. Everything about this game leans toward combat 25/7. There's no social out of combat systems in place to bring the community together. One that puts people together where online gaming friends can be made. A quick point. I remember my 1st 30 minutes or so in SWG pre-cu. i was a little lost dog and of course other could see that easily. Being the way SWG was set up it didn't take long for a private message from another player to pop up. After talking for about 10 minutes or so, i got a trade invite. He game me like 500 credits and a speeder bike. He said if i ever needed anything to look him up, in which i did a few days later and he became a ingame online friend, one of many by the way, i even joined the guild he was in. Let me add more. The cantina's were a social hotspot and rper's dream. With the companions that are really pets, you really can't do anything without one being out, to everything being loot based, to the lack of social systems, empty cantin'a that serve no purpose at all, anti social behavior will be widespread i'm afraid.

I would really like to know where Bioware got their vision of exploration, because they just flat out have no clue. The first time i got to Hoth and started to go in any direction i ended up getting the exhaustion message. There's not one inch of planet property that doesn't include you having to be there to complete a quest. Where's all the hidden cities to explore for ancient relics or secrets for more power, where are all the hidden caves or abandoned moon base's or orbital stations, Yes, datacrons are there, but they don't count, since they are placed in a area that you're going to go to anyway and they are very easy to see and find. Wouldn't it have been nice to make them actually be in secret locations that had spawn and despawn timers. so they ended up in random places on different planets. Nothing this game offers, wants you to actually have to use your brain. It's a Easter egg hunt that is being played in a confined one room area, where the location of the eggs are given to you. Everything you get from TOR is handed to you. This is why i call it a game, because it is nowhere near being a real MMORPG.

Exactly

You mean the stuff, except legacy things, that should have been in from launch. You know, the things that are as standard as a wheel and headlight are for a car.

Where did it go wrong, from the beginning of course. Bioware made a great game, just a really bad MMORPG.

You know, from the get go, Bioware has touted Story, story, story, story, story, story, story, story, story ,story, story, story, story, story, story, story, story, story, story, story, and when you think it's done, even more story. For ****s sake, let me get my diving gear on and jump into all this story and try to find an actual MMORPG under all this story.

Piss poor design flaw is just piss poor. From day 1 Bioware has implemented different systems to keep players cornered and corralled from each other and it really has to do with the personal story that every class has. Now, that doesn't mean i dislike the VO and cutscenes, but everyone knows that even to much of a good thing can be bad. It would have been so much better if they started your story at level 10. I could imagine it going something like, You enter the game, like now, but instead of jumping into that class story you are told that once you get enough training you will be sent to whomever and that's when things start to roll for class story. As a level 1, you should then be able to take a shuttle to any of the starting planets and level up with a friend or friends. All regular quests should be open for anyone to do at the appropriate level on any planet.

Yes for the first month or so, now No. The game is just to shallow and closed in. If Bioware would have made an open world game that was more sandbox that had their VO and cutscene's only for your personal story, then i believe the game would have been much better. The game lacks freedom and doesn't feel alive nor feels like I'm actually part of it. They said they knew what sandbox and themepark was, and TOR would land somewhere right in the middle. If that was the case, TOR would look a lot like Archeage and less like WOW or other pure themepark games. Bioware, A+ for writing a good book and making a single player game to go with it, but i can only give you a D for making an actual mmorpg.

Yes for the first month or so, now No. The game is just to shallow and closed in. If Bioware would have made an open world game that was more sandbox that had their VO and cutscene's only for your personal story, then i believe the game would have been much better. The game lacks freedom and doesn't feel alive nor feels like I'm actually part of it. They said they knew what sandbox and themepark was, and TOR would land somewhere right in the middle. If that was the case, TOR would look a lot like Archeage and less like WOW or other pure themepark games. Bioware, A+ for writing a good book and making a single player game to go with it, but i can only give you a D for making an actual mmorpg.

When this game was being developed and information was coming out, Bioware said they knew what sandbox and themepark were and TOR would land somewhere in the middle. It absolutely does not land in the middle at all. VO and story in this game is very good, but it's overdone. To much of a good thing can be bad. The game just doesn't have that open living feel to it. There's surely not enough out of combat system tools for players to make the game world come alive. I'm not saying the game is bad, but it could have been so much more and better.

Not gonna disagree with what you're saying but for one thing. The, "a living breathing world" quote. This game is so far from that, it's not even funny. A living breathing world would not pigeonhole a player into one class, stated armor, sharded planets, crafting that has absolutely no affect on the economy, no real social interaction outside combat, no day night cycles, very limited character customization, very limited player species, no outside of combat system tools, very limited space game and more than i want to continue with. Now that being said, the game has promise, to state that it has that living breathing world feel is just not true and I'm not sure if Bioware can or even wants to put that stuff in.

Likes and dislikes of the game is different from person to person. My mmorpg past started with SWG pre-cu, then went to almost every other mmo on the market. When this game was announced, i was ecstatic to say the least. When the information came out on the various systems, i knew that it would be a much different game than SWG was, but more in line with alot of others. Started playing the early access and went all the way to 50, which i enjoyed. Once there though, the reality started to sink in and the personal realization that this game lacked major depth on many levels. I always figured that i really liked SWG because i was a SW geek, but it really was the openness and freedom that game offered combined with the SW IP that made it special for me. If Bioware can insert more system tools that let's players do more out of combat activites, i really believe that a lot of the bad mouthing this game gets would go away.

The OP has a point. This game needs buttloads more of out of combat things to do, and i'm not talking about the dumb fishing that WOW has. Before this game was released Bioware devs said they knew what sandbox and themepark were and TOR was gonna be some where in the middle, in which it's not by a long shot. I could play SWG pre-cu 24 hrs straight if i wanted and would have never once ran out of things to do. I remember someone for LA or Sony made fun of people who liked to set up a camp in the middle of nowhere, i believe it was right after the NGE. i also remember someone for Bioware doing the same thing when talking about Space and making fun to the tune of, Han talking to Chewy, let's fly over there and gather resources or something to that affect. Mmorpg's are supposed to be living breathing entities, that allows players to immerse themselves into the game world that has tools and systems set in place for things to do and create when not engaged in combat. TOR as is right now, is nothing more than a guided planet hopping kill, kill, game.

I think Bioware delivered a great game, but not a mmorpg. Don't get me wrong, for what the game is, it does really good. The problem being, that it's just not enough. Bioware should have put as much sandbox as they have themepark and blurred the lines. 1 through 50 was blast. Collecting all the datacrons was really fun as well. Doing dailies and the gear grind is not.

I would also agree with, a lot of people today are just not patient enough and are part of the me/right now generation.