I respect you opinion and agree that we disagree. I am a bit short on time since I have plans for tonight (EU time) but I would love to discuss more since the most interesting open minded discussions are with people who disagree.

If you do Hardmode FPs in SWTOR you get the second best tier pieces in the game. If you are lucky you can get all pieces in one day. Is that not a little amount of time and effort for that huge reward value?

Of course you need to set a limit somewhere.

You do not understand I am afraid. Why would you play a game that does not give you rewards of any kind? It would be like playing 'ball in a cup' everyday, guess why people are not doing that. If people devote their lives to this game and are the worlds best guild with world first kills on all bosses, do you not think they deserve recognition? Once again the 'ball in a cup' example is applicable. Why would anyone want to be best at 'ball in a cup' and not spend their time on something else? If you play 1 hour a week you will be rewarded accordingly and not grouped up together with the best players in the world. Why would you want to be good at something when you do not need to? This is why the game needs to be designed to appeal a broader audience. Are you agreeing with me here? Dynamical endgame to complement the static would appeal a broader audience.

I am going with the break option I am afraid. But I will check back during the summer to see if it has improved enough.

The only reason I still post in these forums is the tiny hope that posts like these will steer the game to the right direction. I really love both Star Wars and Bioware and I really want a good SW MMO on the market.

It is basic entrepreneurship that you balance your competitive advantages to cover more aspects. Especially if one is very expensive. Yes, because killing x creatures of type y in the staring area until you reach a certain level is truly innovative and new. Ah, the "A game only needs to be fun."-argument. You always want to create something that is more fun than previous iterations, that is why the gaming industry is advancing so fast. Have you even tried raiding EV >= hardmode? If you have, you realize this statement is wrong. Unique how? The story elements adds to the competitive advantage, but the rest of the experience is traditional and boring. The future will tell.

Where to start You got the Star Wars IP and a legacy of story telling, now what? Of course you should put emphasize on the things that make you unique since that has a competitive value. But knowing that the Star Wars IP is unique by itself and that there are no other big sci fi MMOs out there truly competing with WoW puts you in a good spot without overdoing the story telling since that is expensive and will reduce the quality of other aspects of the game. Before doing the game design (art design is independent) you should analyze what makes the current MMOs' features so great and use that information to make them even better and more innovative in your game. A truly great game has features that the players did not know they wanted. Now we know our competitive advantage and we know what features we need to increase this advantage. We are ready to start design the game. First impression The first impression is very important which means that the first thing the players do in the game should not be the SAME THING they do in all other games. It should be an epic start to an epic adventure. Put a lot of effort into making it the coolest experience they have ever had in a starting zone. Reward value : Time investment ratio This ratio is truly bad in this game. You want to appeal a large crowd of customers and always have them longing for 'that item' that they have their eyes on. You want rewards to have a good relative 'time to get' ratio so that getting the best rewards will keep the players busy while you work on new content. Once the majority of players almost have reached their goal you release new content and repeat this cycle. You do not want to hand rewards away to easy because that narrows down the target group a lot and only keep casual players satisfied while the rest find other games to play. It is of course important that this ratio is balanced so that the casuals do not find themselves running into a to great growth of exponential commitment requirements to get 'that item' they want straight away. This is what it should look like -You do something you think is hard and are rewarded accordingly -You are a beginner and have you fight your way to greatness Reward value | ----------------------------/ |-------------------------- / |------------------------/ |--------------------- / |--------------------/ |---------------- / |-------------- / | ---------- / | --------/ | ----/ |/______________________________ Time invested This is what SWTOR looks like -You do something very hard and get close to nothing (e.g. no nm loot tables) -You are a beginner and can get close to the best gear in the game within one week -You buy the best space combat equipment off GTN and finish the hardest missions within 15min Reward value |\ |--\ | --- \ |-------\ | ---------\ |------------\ |------------- \ |----------------- \ |--------------------\ |----------------------\ |_________________\_____________ Time invested Quality Creating an MMO is a long time investment and the quality is vital. Be sure to release it when most aspects are done in order to keep more subscribers. Leveling up Sure leveling up is a great way to keep players paying, but can those 20-30 hours of boring side quests be put in more fun things? Yes, you should make leveling an epic story to the max level with new innovative ways to get experience. Keep the old kill x of y and gather x of z quests at a bare minimum. End game If you take those 20-30 hours of boring side quests away you need something else to account for that. Static end game was cool back in 2004, but today dynamic end game would really make the world feel more alive. Include politics, gambling, racing, space flight and combat, etc. that changes according to the choices of the players. Of course the traditional end game complements this in a good way and should be there. If you still decide to only have the traditional end game for the love of god make it good so that the competitive value is kept. Communication If you ever experience "we and them" you are doing it wrong. You should listen to the players and change the game the way they want to. Be honest and always keep them informed on what is going on and try to keep the confidential black box to a minimum. Customer service If people are complaining about the customer service you are doing it wrong. Intangible values can be greater than monetary ones. Conclusion I can not imagine how Bioware could fail on most of if not all of the areas mentioned above with the budget that they had. Perceived game feature value assessment, ranking and mapping to monetary value must have been ignored completely and a lot of managerial improvisation must have taken place in order to create this game. This is nothing else but managerial incompetence and irresponsibility. The formula for creating a truly great MMO that is appealing to a wide audience is not that hard but still they only manage to appeal to the casual audience because of bad and unjustified decision making.

Does appealing to only one target group with THREE operation difficulty settings sound like good game design to you?

the "time invested relative to the reward"-ratio is truly bad this is what it should look like -you do something very hard are rewarded greatly -you are a beginner and have you fight your way to greatness reward | ----------------------------/ |-------------------------- / |------------------------/ |--------------------- / |--------------------/ |---------------- / |-------------- / | ---------- / | --------/ | ----/ |/______________________________ time invested this is what it looks like -you do something very hard and get close to nothing (e.g. no nm loot tables) -you are a beginner and can get close to the best gear in the game within one week -you buy the best space combat equipment off GTN and do the hardest mission within 15min reward |\ |--\ | --- \ |-------\ | ---------\ |------------\ |------------- \ |----------------- \ |--------------------\ |----------------------\ |_________________\_____________ time invested

Fact: The less you play the game the more you like it.

If it went f2p maybe the CE vendor would finally sell something useful.

-Best Star Wars game ever -SWTOR Pick one.

This game takes casual gaming to a whole new level. In 1.2 you get a mail with 'best in slot' gear when you log in for the first time or what?

Largest MMO budget ever: Check Tons of other MMOs and games to analyze success factors from: Check Several years of development: Check Anything other than the best game this decennium is unacceptable: Check Comparable to games released in 2004-2005: Check Comparable to games released and running in 2012: Nope Blunder of the decennium: Check

As I've said earlier; A truly good game contains features that the players didn't know they wanted. SWTOR didn't even have the basic features that the players are accustomed to in already existing games.

I also recall reading that we will not get high res textures anytime soon.

Most people are in the main fleet that you already visited.

Different target groups obviously have different opinions.

A truly good game has features that the players didn't know they wanted.

Biggest budget in MMO history. A lot of MMOs to assess success and value effect factors from. Still manages to make bad and static end game. Sorry, it's just to hard to believe that this is anything but incompetence.

"But it's fun." "They will patch it, you just have to wait." "But the game is still new!" Pick one generic excuse. This is just terrible game design or pure laziness.

With this budget and the chance to assess the success factors of several other MMOs it's not really defensible to not have good end game. The basic formula is so simple you almost cannot fail to implement it: 1. You (probably) cannot get the best gear in the game 2. This will make you always have something to long for 3. The best players in the game can acquire the best gear in the game 4. The best players are happy because it is a challenge to get that gear 5. The casual players have people to look up to and envy 6. They do their best and acquire the best gear slowly motivated by the best players 7. The super casuals (0-7h a week) are doing normal mode because that is challenging enough 8. When the majority of casuals and super casuals almost (or slightly after) have reached their goal you release new content 9. Repeat But in SWTOR it's more like this: 1. Everyone can get the best gear in the game 2. The best players got it very fast and got terribly bored because there was no challenge so they stop playing the game completely 3. The casual players have no one to look up to and envy 4. The casual players get the best gear in the game and get bored 5. The super casuals are having a blast because this is a challenge to them 6. Now everyone except the super casuals have to wait a long time for new content 7. People find other games to play while the super casuals are having the time of their life 8. New content is released 9. Repeat This is probably because the super casuals is the biggest target group out there. The other players are probably around 1 sigma from the standard deviation.

This game was obviously not for me and my guild as a target group (the competitive raiders). But I am sure that it will suit very casual players perfectly.

Enjoy this moment. In 2-3 weeks from now you will be bored. The dailies are found on Ilum and Belsavis. The Ilum ones are available after finishing the "First Strike" (or something similar) quest chain and the Belsavis ones are available after finishing the Belsavis bonus quest chain. You want to start with the first instance available and try it HM (Black Talon for Empire) and start your way from there. For PvP you play until you get 800 commendations and then you purchase 200 commendations that I don't recall the name of. Then you can buy a PvP bag which MAY include a RANDOM PvP item (could be one you already have). =)