Riddickcz Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Yes, but you realize that this stuff is all the positives with the negatives carefully faded out? Warhammer:Online has been hyped that way. SW:TOR has been hyped the same way as well. It's been like that with every MMO and when it finally launches people are getting a shock that in the end nothing seems to be perfect once again. People falling blindly to hypes and zealously advertising games before launch make me cringe sometimes. You'd think by now people have learned but nope, here we are again! Oh I realize that. I aint sayin GW2 will be perfect. I am trying to keep my distance too, cause I was sooo hyped about SWTOR and got badly disappointed. Im just saying its worth looking into and trying it out. It looks good, but doesnt have to be. We shall see soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandrax Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Dude, you need to do some reading. F2P isn't "doom." Most companies make more money that way. You have this misconception that F2P = has failed. This is false. Actually the game did fail on some level. Devs release a subscription based game as they believe that it has the ability to command a certain number of monthly subscriptions. When the game fails to live up to expectations and sub numbers are terribly low, they switch to the F2P model in order to try to plug the leaks as it were. If F2P MMOs were THAT profitable, nobody would bother with the P2P model at all. It is a fact that the P2P model is potentially the more profitable if the game is popular enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarTornPanda Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Dude, you need to do some reading. F2P isn't "doom." Most companies make more money that way. You have this misconception that F2P = has failed. This is false. Apparently, you need to do some reading. I said they are doomed in the sense there are no other choices besides these two options. You either release a fully polished game with ALL the features and functions of a modern MMORPG or release it as a F2P game. Where did I imply that F2P was bad? By the way... I'm avid League of Legends player. I know how successful F2P is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobson Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Runescape, WoW and RIFT are the veterans still kicking, especially Runescape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter-of-Jedi Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The only thing that will keep ME hooked is a player bounty system. That's it. Nothing else. There are many like me who say the same thing. Player bounties are fun, period. Until then, this will be another MMO to join the dieing legion of overthehill MMOS. It's still better than all the rest by far, but it stills needs work. Fortunately, its still very very very very very young, so it has time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdoll Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Runescape, WoW and RIFT are the veterans still kicking, especially Runescape. I wouldnt call Rift a veteran cause its not even a year old yet, and Runescape does have subscriptions, the free version is sort of pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaceandpassion Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Apparently, you need to do some reading. I said they are doomed in the sense there are no other choices besides these two options. You either release a fully polished game with ALL the features and functions of a modern MMORPG or release it as a F2P game. Where did I imply that F2P was bad? By the way... I'm avid League of Legends player. I know how successful F2P is. Yea i kinda agree but there is no such thing as a fully polised game. Most mmo's come out flawed with bugs, but yea i see your point. Mmo's are dieing fast these days because people simply always want more. Gone are the days that people were happy with grouping for the fun of it, pvping for the kill and grinding for the story. But thats just the human race as a whole. We are becoming more savage by the year imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centraxia Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 As long as all the Big Corps continue to blindly follow the WoW model (which is getting worse each patch IMHO) the MMO genre will suffer. The problem is that big corps want security and are unwilling to take risks so they always just try to put a new spin on WoW because they see WoW's cooked up 10 million players and think $15x 10million = $$$$ and what worked for Blizz will work for us. Le sigh..I miss the days when games were made by gamers for games and not by Accounts for Stockholders What I would love to see is more EvE type games, small niche types that stick to one type of play style and do it well rather then the current WoW style, please the most folks for the least cost while milking every last cent out of your customers. (PS I really hate Activison-Blizzard if you cant tell ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowink Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Tide is changing with GW2. +1 and if it will not be enough I hope in Titan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter-of-Jedi Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 As long as all the Big Corps continue to blindly follow the WoW model (which is getting worse each patch IMHO) the MMO genre will suffer. The problem is that big corps want security and are unwilling to take risks so they always just try to put a new spin on WoW because they see WoW's cooked up 10 million players and think $15x 10million = $$$$ and what worked for Blizz will work for us. Le sigh..I miss the days when games were made by gamers for games and not by Accounts for Stockholders What I would love to see is more EvE type games, small niche types that stick to one type of play style and do it well rather then the current WoW style, please the most folks for the least cost while milking every last cent out of your customers. (PS I really hate Activison-Blizzard if you cant tell ) Eve is a great, but super complicated game -- and an excellent example. Like you said, it doesn't appeal the the simplified masses which means fewer $$$$$$$. But, as far as near perfection for sandboxes go, it comes damn close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alavastre Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 A single shard for all players, a sandbox similar to EVE Online with a myriad of ingame activities, massive player driven economy, wars over economic resources and a combat system similar to console fighting games. That would keep me busy for a very very long time. I like this idea, kind of. Not a single shard and don't mention EVE online, I hated that game. But you bring up a valid idea, where things can be more interactive. Why have 2 factions? Why not 3 or 4? Actually why not be able to pick your own faction? Or maybe factions are just guilds? Also, why not have different shops for different towns, where you need to control the resources to keep the shops open? Give people missions that actually affect the world they are in, and I'm not just suggesting a sandbox MMO, just one that is much more interactive. Rift had a decent idea, you had different points to control on the maps, and if you had them new quests would open up. Do that, just on a bigger scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshalleck Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) . Gone are the days that people were happy with grouping for the fun of it, pvping for the kill and grinding for the story. I take issue with some of this comment, and for a couple different reasons. I've played MMOs since 2001, starting with Anarchy Online. I don't remember anyone grouping "for the fun of it" unless they were already guild mates or friends in the first place. What I do remember, is people grouping because the game design encouraged grouping from the ground up--i.e., you don't play well with others, you don't level. I kind of miss that, but it's not because people have changed...the games we're playing have. The new mantra in MMO gaming is feeding the foreveralones...everything should be attainable by even the most antisocial troglodytes. Same goes for PVP. And I don't know what the heck "grinding for the story" is even supposed to mean. Edited February 16, 2012 by marshalleck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randytravis Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I am waiting on GW2 to, but to say it's doing anything NEW is a joke. There is nothing new in GW2 just old ideas rehashed and thats the problem with MMO market. Agreed, players feel this is gonna be another holy grail. Just absurbed. New priciples same old MMO. I how ever feel it's not because there is nothing new. Take fps's. Same style and have been for years. They will continue you to be as will MMO's. I feel the player base for MMO's is so big players are just getting bord with the style of the game. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw the MMO market as a whole shrink slightly over the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inixus Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Runescape, WoW and RIFT are the veterans still kicking, especially Runescape. Hows Rift a veteran?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddickcz Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hows Rift a veteran?? its older than swtor :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshalleck Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Eve is a great, but super complicated game -- and an excellent example. Like you said, it doesn't appeal the the simplified masses which means fewer $$$$$$$. But, as far as near perfection for sandboxes go, it comes damn close. Too bad about that "my character is a spaceship" and more importantly, the ever widening gap of time-based skill advancement which reinforces the advantage of long-term players over fresh blood every single day. That's what has always kept me from playing EVE. Edited February 16, 2012 by marshalleck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 So You know You are wrong but while on the floor still kicking and want to play word games? The GAME doesnt fail if the business model is changed. Its all about definition. And I wont play this game with You, sorry sir. It absolutely FAILS to live up to it's original expectations. No two ways about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cesmode Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I dont think all MMOs are doomed to be short lived. Those that focus around PVP are, but the others are not. Not including Ultima Online or Everquest, because I have not played them and would not be able to intelligently comment on them... WoW: 7+ years strong, 10+mil subs(albeit declining subs), reshaped the MMO industry. Focused around PVP, but have made improvements in PVP. The game is now, however, becoming stale, because it is limited to its aging technology and the fact that blizzard has dedicated most, if not all, of the original devs to other projects such as D3 or Titan. Aion: This did fail, because it was centered around PVP. Great graphics, could have been a great story, great gameplay. But development fell on its face trying to center it around PVP. short lived. Warhammer: Poor story, poor gameplay, poor pvp, poor world pvp. This probably is the worst and its a good thing they are down to one server(I believe). short lived. Rift: One year old...centered around PVE. They took every little nifty function that WoW has and made them better. Also, it did something that no other MMO has, created a living, dynamic environment with Rifts. Not to mention, their dev team pumps out content faster than any other MMO in history, and has a load of end game solo play, which is something no other MMO has done. This will be around for a while, a niché game. Eve Online: One of the older games in the list, but definately one of the most polished and well through games on this list. In my opinion, its depth, complexity, attention to detail, customization features, soloability, etc etc...far beats out the Master WoW. A niché game, with a small sub count that will not diminish. This will be around for a while. SWTOR: It has had the most successful MMO launch in history, with almost 2mil subs(which btw is way more than WoW had). Its stumbling a bit with bugs, and addressing minor bugs rather than more important and nagging ones. However, the story, space combat, and companion system almost revolutionize the MMO industry. This will be around for a while./ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarTornPanda Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Exactly right. There are none. The only MMO to have grown and met expectations is WoW. Notice, they didn't switch to F2P to make "more money" because it's a fallacy. A couple others have actually grown in population. Eve is one that I know of off the top of my head. Still not F2P though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirrexx Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The fail of some new AAA MMO game, like warhammer or swtor, are not linked whit a lack of evolution in the MMO genre. From my point of view, the fail of these games are linked whit a lack of competence and an arrogant attitudes from the developers. Take a old MMO like DAOC, remake it whit a new engine, and you'll get a success MMO. Swtor is a Warhammer 2, same people, same idea, they didn t learned anything. On a side note : in 2012, we have a stunfest game, but the problem of CC was resolved in 2003 in daoc! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It absolutely FAILS to live up to it's original expectations. No two ways about it. Treating your own opinions as facts is why you're wrong so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inixus Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Too bad about that "my character is a spaceship" and more importantly, the ever widening gap of time-based skill advancement which reinforces the advantage of long-term players over fresh blood every single day. That's what has always kept me from playing EVE. Eve is pay to win, you dont wanna go with your hard earnd t3 ship to nulsec or even out into highsec for that matter and get blownup by rich guys who donate like at least 100 bucks every month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTed Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 A couple others have actually grown in population. Eve is one that I know of off the top of my head. Still not F2P though. Population =/= revenue. Turbine: LotRO revenue tripled since going F2P. "Going F2P is fail!" This is nonsense children say. It's also simply, empirically false. Stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCBull Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I dont think all MMOs are doomed to be short lived. Those that focus around PVP are, but the others are not. Every new release, there are more and more people who pvp that never had. The proof is in the large swtor pvp community. It may be time to get away from such a heavy pve centric game. Content in those games can't be made fast enough now a days. No matter what is made it's pretty close to the same old thing. Edited February 16, 2012 by BCBull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cesmode Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The fail of some new AAA MMO game, like warhammer or swtor, are not linked whit a lack of evolution in the MMO genre. From my point of view, the fail of these games are linked whit a lack of competence and an arrogant attitudes from the developers. Take a old MMO like DAOC, remake it whit a new engine, and you'll get a success MMO. Swtor is a Warhammer 2, same people, same idea, they didn t learned anything. On a side note : in 2012, we have a stunfest game, but the problem of CC was resolved in 2003 in daoc! Reading this tells me you didnt play warhammer at all. SWTOR is nothing like it. Warhammer was a laggy, PVP centric game. You either queued for pvp, and earned renown ranks and leveled through PVP. Or completed some mediocre quests. Or got a group and traded capture points with the other faction to obtain more renown. That was not world PVP. One faction would take A, while the other would take B...then they would flip flop, thus getting even more renown. If you spend any time in ilum, which is far from perfect, the two factions do spend time actually fighting eachother for control of the map. Anytime I am doing dallies there, I constantly see ops forming to fight the pubs. Ilum, with all of its bugs, is FAR greater than the entire PVP content of Warhammre combined. Yes, I think they learned from that sh_tty game. Not to mention, PVE with SWTOR just pisses all over Warhammer and stands up to any MMO right now. The combat system is unique and engaging(especially for melee), the story is great (and Im not a fanbio-story reading nerd), and the classes are interesting against the 'run of the mill' mana casting ranged vs melee swinging stabby stabbys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts