Nytak Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Eve-Online.... Still a gear grind, just different... Everybody starts with T1 garbage.. time, skills, ??? later you gots T2.. more time skills ??? later T3. Don't fool yourself into thinking EVE is something it isn't.. or worse yet, that it isn't something it is. Edited January 31, 2012 by Nytak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spynnal Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) How many times must it be said--you have to give the development team time. There are not enough hours in the day or days in the year to create an entire universe AND fill it with every conceivable feature of pre-existing, popular MMOs. World of Warcraft didn't have arenas, battlegrounds or even honor points awarded for killing enemies in the open world in its first year, let alone first month. There were barely any mods, barely any dungeons (how many times did you run Stratholm over and over, followed by repeats of Onyxia/MC). All of this takes time to implement, especially when you consider that SWTOR is trying to advance the genre by adding a significant amount of voice acting to every facet of the game. GIVE. IT. TIME. But feel free to unsubscribe and stop posting in the meantime. This. My WoW experience from release: Nov04-Jan05 - Leveling Jan05-Feb05 - LBRS/UBRS/Scholo/Strat x 1,000 Feb05-June05 - Log in weekly to raid MC, MC, and MC. PvP = wander around Tauren Mill (just a flat field where people decided to PvP) and enjoy the low fps slideshow. June05 - 2009? Enjoyed the game immensely post BWL and other new content. For me, personally, Feb05-June05, months 3 through 7 were a wasteland, with nothing at all to do at max level except join the same 8 boss raid for months, and months. Outside of that, I rarely logged in. Flash forward to month seven, and the content got better, with more and more to do at end game. Glad I was patient. Edited January 31, 2012 by Spynnal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodanth_The_Wise Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Explain to me that earning gear is my end game. Once I complete my daily's and weekly's I have no point in playing once I hit BM. Tell me what's the fun in that? Honestly, this is the case with all mmos. End game content is usually very limited for the first 3 months or so after release. That's usually the waiting period. I know it sucks, believe me I do -- but you really have to be patient. WoW, the best mmo of it's time -- speaking solely on subscription count and player-base... was the same exact way at release. There were two raids to do, and zero incentive to pvp as far as rewards go. The only sort of pvp to find was world pvp in one specific zone that usually always had a skirmish going on. No rewards, no ranking, nothing. There were no heroic instances, just small raids that did not drop epics. The two first raids, molten core and onyxia's lair, both required lengthly attunement processes, so in order to do them -- you had to run instances a ton of times to even complete one step of the process, which usually meant a key to enter the raid zone. Molten core wasn't as bad, but onyxia however required an entire guild(FORTY people) to run the same instance over, and over again. You had to do a long quest line, and each person had to get there key, in other words it meant that you couldn't get in just by having the raid leader have a key. The pieces of the key dropped ONE at a time. Do you have any idea how frustrating that was? I'm telling you right now, it was absolutely, positively worse than this game is currently. I'm sorry man, and I hate to just preach what's been said a million times -- but it's the truth. You HAVE to wait. Regardless of the game's budget. World of Warcraft took tons of money to produce, and it was certainly not polished when it was released. They had plenty of time to fix it as they went, and they did -- and you can bet that bioware will follow in those footsteps. Just like every other mmo before it has. And yes, world of warcraft had lengthly betas. Plural. Yet there were plenty of bugs at release. Some of which still remain in the game to this date because they have not been able to figure out whats wrong with the coding and correct it without causing more issues due to altering it. Such as players being able to time a jump when a warrior charges them which causes the warrior to basically miss it and allow the player to avoid the quick stun it provides. Stealth mechanics are still dodgy at times and have the effect break without reason. It happens with two classes.. It's gotten better but it's still there. You may think "Well, that's only one game." Well, it's also the most popular game in the genre and has been since 2004. It's a very good reference to use. I only played everquest briefly, which at a time had millions of subscribers and it basically reinvented the wheel on online roleplaying games, but it also was very punishing as far as end-game content went. FAR more than this game. It also required TONS AND TONS of people to do raids if I remember correctly. I'm talking multiple guilds of like 50 people at the same time. Lag lag lag. I mean, the technology back than wasn't nearly as good as it is now, that kind of goes without saying. Anyway, I'm done rambling. The moral of the story is, every mmo has gone through this phase. A phase were tons of people play at release, and slowly but steadily drop off and then come back once things have been fixed and more content has been released. Give this game time. It isn't perfect by any stretch of imagination in it's current state, but it is still doing well and it will only get better as time goes by. I'm not a bioware fan boy. I am a star wars fan(or else I wouldn't be playing), I'm just saying it like it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torothin Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Eve skills are time compressed. meaning it takes time to reach a skill(actual time) that is not a grind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harabek Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 That's what end game is in every mmo. What made you think it'd be any different? I played a lot of MMOs, there is of course always some sort of grind involved. But this game is the first where running flashpoints is a pain. The only reason we finished them at all was just to make sure we never have to come back. The amount of useless trashpacks is only matched by the amount of bugs. I cant get myself to even run them twice... And thats coming from someone who cant count how many dungeons were grinded in 6 years of WoW and tons of other MMOs. Hell Lineage 2 the Korean Grindfest felt better. I really wanted this game to work, i love the SW universe and i was actually a big Bioware fan, but it gets harder day by day. Granted, its the only MMO since WoW that i managed to play longer than 1-2 weeks, but not by much im afraid. The countless bugs arent even the dealbreaker.. its just.. well.. not fun.. at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bregah Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 How many times must it be said--you have to give the development team time. I do believe they've had 5 years (and it shows, as the systems in game all "feel" 5 years old in their design concept). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturnalis Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Eve-Online.... This is the problem saddly. EVE online has hardened you. Now playing anything else is like childs play. There is no risk, there is no living on the edge in SWTOR, there is no stress. You get all of that in EVE. Yes the stress too. I lost a Mach to NPC's on a solo misison run and I lost a Tengu in a wormhole. Billion + ships with fittings but I bought them right back to continued again . I stopped b/c I could not stand the stress and the wife and children aggro while playing. I can get that in SWTOR and it's not a big deal. Edited January 31, 2012 by Nocturnalis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waypoc Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Honestly, this is the case with all mmos. End game content is usually very limited for the first 3 months or so after release. That's usually the waiting period. I know it sucks, believe me I do -- but you really have to be patient. And this is the problem with all modern MMO's. Everything is the end-game. The fact is that if they make a true MMO, the end-game is a distant goal that you know you'll get to but there just is no rush. There is so much more content getting there that you are ok to pause for days or weeks at a time at level 20 let's say and just explore, build, camp, fish, craft, decorate, fish some more, talk to friends, cook, milk an animal to make some awesome drink, train a pet so that one day you can ride it or use it in battle. Oh wait wrong game. And that's the problem. MMO's now are hollow. Shadows of their former glory. Drop the VO crap and add real content. VO is a gimmick for an MMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisel Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 But feel free to unsubscribe and stop posting in the meantime. You are not the forum police. and Bioware would be wise to address this kind of rudeness just as much. others can read how the community responds to critics.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voqar Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It's way, way, WAY too easy to get top end PvP gear in this game. That is for sure. PvP (if you can call instanced BGs PvP) require about zero effort, you get rewarded whether you suck, lose constantly, or don't even try, and it's flat out stupid for people to get artifacts out of something so irrelevant to the rest of the game. So yeah, I can see why you're bored if warfronts and PvP gear are what you're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharvok Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I don't see what people are talking about "all MMO's" they really just mean, WoW and RIFT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdobrowney Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 All theme park style mmos will have dead points in them. This is why sandbox mmos in my mind keep subs long. PLayer build content in my mind is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waypoc Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I don't see what people are talking about "all MMO's" they really just mean, WoW and RIFT. I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alement Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hell Lineage 2 the Korean Grindfest felt better. C'mon now. Let's not get carried away. Comparing SWTOR to L2/Aion is a joke. It took months upon months upon months to get to endgame, and then months upon months to get gear (if you didn't just buy your currency from IGE because getting money in those games was impossible, too). I mean... Fenris set in Aion when Fenris first came out. Anyone? 2-3 months for a mediocre set of armor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalevan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 At some point in an MMO, you are responsible for creating your own fun. The developers can only lead you around so much. Create your fun. This game is a baby. Give it a chance to grow and develop. Otherwise take a break and play the game that suits you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinesusmc Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I can't even finish my class story line. 300m budget and several MMO's to use as a reference and this is the end result? What you and a lot of other people don't understand is that the Star Wars IP is a ton of that budget its very expensive to get that license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinesusmc Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You sir, are wrong. Ok what MMO has something at end game that is not like that after you get and do everything for either PVP and PVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torothin Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ok what MMO has something at end game that is not like that after you get and do everything for either PVP and PVE. Eve-Online. There is no end game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dria Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I told myself I would give this game 6 months to set itself straight. I don't know if that's going to happen. Door is that way... -> I did not bother to read more that on your post.. See you soon back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evuke Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Generally speaking does anyone else notice how the guys with the 2008/2009/2010 join dates are always "just be patient" and "every mmo is like this" and "thanks cya later can i have your stuff" etc etc, and the guys with the late 2011/2012 join dates are always "this game is rubbish" and "pvp is terrible" and "game is dying" type posts. i think there are 2 distinct groups of players, those who play tor just because it's a mmo and they really don't give a hoot about star wars, it's just another mmo and they judge it based on it's mmo merits. Then the other group, the star wars fans who have been obsessing over this game for years and in their eyes it is perfect and can do no wrong.....because it has light sabres etc Who's right? Edited January 31, 2012 by Evuke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinesusmc Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Does anyone just enjoy PLAYING anymore? When I go into a WZ, I am having a good time. I don't need much more than that. I am enjoying the time I am spending. If you aren't having fun, then why do it at all? Isn't pulling someone into an obstacle in Huttball reward enough? It never gets old. Thank you someone with an imagination that works and is used more than most of the MMO community doesn't have anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goxwerd Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Until a new game comes out that breaks the mold and is successful we will keep getting high budget badge farmer games. People can cry on the forums all they want the decision makers will always go the safe(wow) route. They will never realize that Wow was popular for reasons besides the things they are copying. I am positive that is Wow went the RVR Daoc route every game since then would have the same model. I find it funny how people link wow's success to their pvp system which is totally not the case that game was huge for a a bunch of reasons and would have been just as popular if they went a different route for pvp. Sadly the only games that venture away from the Wow Rift now Tor way of playing are the asian mmos but they rarely work out in the states/europe due to western gamers not wanting the same leveling experience as our eastern friends. The sad fact is there is no point to pvp in these games. Wow through a bandaid on it by making things ranked but that only gets the epeen kiddies happy and is still is not always pvp and gets old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShizuXIII Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Does anyone just enjoy PLAYING anymore? When I go into a WZ, I am having a good time. I don't need much more than that. I am enjoying the time I am spending. If you aren't having fun, then why do it at all? Isn't pulling someone into an obstacle in Huttball reward enough? It never gets old. I would be happy to play for fun alone, if there actually was SOME fun. But right now, it's just rage and frustration. Today I've been thrown five time in a row in a losing game already in progress. At least four times my team started the warzone with 6 or 7 against 8. There are 3-5 sorcerers in EVERY SINGLE *********** match. Gear disparity between factions is disgusting. PvP basic mechanics are a disaster. I have never seen a mmorpg with a CC system so totally ****ed up. Reward system is a joke. One of the three maps (guess wich one) is apparently designed with the sole purpose to ANNOY the players. Where's the fun? Maybe you enjoy your lame mechanics in a god-awful map, but most pvpers are looking for, well, DECENT PVP. And on top of this disaster, what do we have? A PvP team of complete amateurs who think themselves able to balance skills and classes. What about fixing the HUGE flaws in the very basic structure of the entire PvP part of the game and then focusing on balance details? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinesusmc Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Eve-Online. There is no end game. In EVE its still the same thing over and over again though just like in all MMO's once you collect everything that's what you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torothin Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Alliances invading other alliances and taking over regions of space is the same thing over and over again? Do go on with your logic. I'm all ears.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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