Nasai Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Once you begin attacking people personally, your arguments become useless. You can be for or against a feature (appearance tab; moddable items, whatever), but to refer to those who think other than you as lazy and just wanting to have something handed to them makes your argument worthless. Your last sentence should have been allowed to stand on its own as a fairly reasonable argument (even though I disagree with it), rather than impugning the character of others with your ad hominem attacks. Didn't you just attack BioWare in this very manner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Professor- Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Bloody amazing. Such joy to be found in looking at your ugly looking character for 40 levels just so that one day when you hit level 41 it all became worth it cause you finally got a matching set of gear that you like! Working for it was awesome & you have the screenshots of your character wearing 40 levels of ugly looking Jedi gear to prove it! Just think, I've been doing it wrong all this time. I've been wearing gear with stats that are below my level or are not for my class & I've been looking cool. I end up having to be a better MMO player than most cause my winning fights with NPC's & other players is based on my MMO skills in knowing how to properly play my class, instead of having all my fights determined by RNG's off of who was the best gear stats. I'd like for BioWare to just give us a break, let us have a working a-tab until they've perfected their in-house test server testing for the horribly broken item modification system. That thing has the potential to be amazing someday, but right now it's just not ready. We should get appearance tabs, just please remove stats from appearance customization BioWare. +1 It seems that BioWare is putting in lots of hours to mimic a simple mechanic that would solve the problem. And the ones who pay for it is us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeddyBearSniper Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Didn't you just attack BioWare in this very manner? He wants to talk about ad hominems after begging the question. Also, the mod system isn't THAT broken, tricky-ha. Relax. Edited January 10, 2012 by TeddyBearSniper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Professor- Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Didn't you just attack BioWare in this very manner? If you are referring to my post where I contrast the two choices available to BioWare as reflecting either pride or humility, please note that I have not attributed either to BioWare, only to the two options. They have the choice before them still, and have not gone down either path. (Hmm... That sounds like a choice in the game... Will they get 50 DS or LS points? Should we include a neutral 3rd choice? Sorry, just letting my mind wander, as it tends to at my age.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossirian Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The current situation with end game gear and item modifications isn’t final and, in fact, many community members like yourself have correctly guessed at what our plans to correct the current design are. Since this is a fairly important issue to many players, let me disclose more details about what is currently in the work regarding purple items and mods: - All partially moddable purple items will be made fully moddable again, allowing the removal of the armoring, hilt and barrel. - The set bonus of end gear purples (PVP and PVE) will be transferable to custom items. - Some item modifications will be restricted to a certain item type. For example, some item modifications will only fit on helmets, while other will only fit on chests, etc. As usual, the caveats about unfinished work apply, but this should give you and the community a very good idea of our intentions. We are serious about making custom gear an entirely valid alternative to end game gear and we support the players’ ability to customize their appearance all the way to (and including) end game. Glad to see y'all are making changes, that said... - All partially moddable purple items will be made fully moddable again, allowing the removal of the armoring, hilt and barrel. [nooooooooooooooo.com] Thats the last thing crafters want to see happen. Its not as big of an issue right now because most of the stuff isn't all that great looking but this hurts mod crafters as well as Custom gear crafting. - Some item modifications will be restricted to a certain item type. For example, some item modifications will only fit on helmets, while other will only fit on chests, etc. Very bad idea. This would make the Mod system a total clustercuss and add more work for the database to load. The current system has its problems but its at least elegant with more standard mods used across all gear than specialized ones. - The set bonus of end gear purples (PVP and PVE) will be transferable to custom items. This however is good, and very similar to a suggestion I made to link the set bonus to augments from those items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syylara Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 An A-Tab is for those lazy people who do not want to put in the time or effort to achieve the look they want. They rather be given something than to earn it with their own merits. An A-tab would total ruin the mod system that they have in place that people have spent hours crafting the look that they wanted. You still have to earn the gear with the appearance you like and the gear that has the performance you want in an a-tab system. So....try again. Maybe without insults, next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Professor- Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 He wants to talk about ad hominems after begging the question. Also, the mod system isn't THAT broken, tricky-ha. Relax. Please understand the distinction between begging the question and raising the question. Begging the question is a form of logical fallacy in which a statement or claim is assumed to be true without evidence other than the statement or claim itself. When you beg the question, the initial assumption of a statement is treated as already proven without any logic to show why the statement is true in the first place. However, to beg the question does not mean to raise the question. Raising the question is simply introducing a topic or idea. I am guilty of the latter, but not the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macheath Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The current situation with end game gear and item modifications isn’t final and, in fact, many community members like yourself have correctly guessed at what our plans to correct the current design are. Since this is a fairly important issue to many players, let me disclose more details about what is currently in the work regarding purple items and mods: - All partially moddable purple items will be made fully moddable again, allowing the removal of the armoring, hilt and barrel. - The set bonus of end gear purples (PVP and PVE) will be transferable to custom items. - Some item modifications will be restricted to a certain item type. For example, some item modifications will only fit on helmets, while other will only fit on chests, etc. As usual, the caveats about unfinished work apply, but this should give you and the community a very good idea of our intentions. We are serious about making custom gear an entirely valid alternative to end game gear and we support the players’ ability to customize their appearance all the way to (and including) end game. Holy cow, this is exactly what I wanted. It's not very often you guys implement a system I am 100% happy with, but this time I think I'm completely on the same page as the devs. Just wanted to show some appreciation, since I'm usually rather critical. -Macheath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFourPO Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The current situation with end game gear and item modifications isn’t final and, in fact, many community members like yourself have correctly guessed at what our plans to correct the current design are. Since this is a fairly important issue to many players, let me disclose more details about what is currently in the work regarding purple items and mods: - All partially moddable purple items will be made fully moddable again, allowing the removal of the armoring, hilt and barrel. - The set bonus of end gear purples (PVP and PVE) will be transferable to custom items. - Some item modifications will be restricted to a certain item type. For example, some item modifications will only fit on helmets, while other will only fit on chests, etc. As usual, the caveats about unfinished work apply, but this should give you and the community a very good idea of our intentions. We are serious about making custom gear an entirely valid alternative to end game gear and we support the players’ ability to customize their appearance all the way to (and including) end game. Good! now if I knew what all 'end game purples' totally entailed I'd be 100% happy. My 2 credits is for purples to be obtainable from a variety of sources, crafting, PvE raids, PvE solo, PvE small group and the same for PvP. This supports people with different loves for different parts of the game to always have that carrot we all love to chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) The current situation with end game gear and item modifications isn’t final and, in fact, many community members like yourself have correctly guessed at what our plans to correct the current design are. Since this is a fairly important issue to many players, let me disclose more details about what is currently in the work regarding purple items and mods: - All partially moddable purple items will be made fully moddable again, allowing the removal of the armoring, hilt and barrel. - The set bonus of end gear purples (PVP and PVE) will be transferable to custom items. - Some item modifications will be restricted to a certain item type. For example, some item modifications will only fit on helmets, while other will only fit on chests, etc. As usual, the caveats about unfinished work apply, but this should give you and the community a very good idea of our intentions. We are serious about making custom gear an entirely valid alternative to end game gear and we support the players’ ability to customize their appearance all the way to (and including) end game. This is great news and all but sadly as a Sith Marauder i still do not have any Armor set that even reomtly looks like the armor set that was presented for the Marauder and was one of the 3 main reasons why i rolled a Marauder in the first place. You know, the black Robe with the Hood that atm ingame is heavy Armor and unusable for Maruaders, available at 40 from the PVP Vendor and for Corellia Commendations on the Commendations Vendor. Instead i have to look like an Imperial Guard or similar to Darth Vader, or even wear skirts like a Inquisitor does. Please add more variety of Moddable Gear to Medium Armor, so that we Marauders can look like a real Sith at endgame to. There isent even any Marauder Gear on the Darkside Vendor on the Imperial Fleet... Edited January 10, 2012 by Cebo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syylara Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Good! now if I knew what all 'end game purples' totally entailed I'd be 100% happy. My 2 credits is for purples to be obtainable from a variety of sources, crafting, PvE raids, PvE solo, PvE small group and the same for PvP. This supports people with different loves for different parts of the game to always have that carrot we all love to chase. Very much agreed. The major issue I see with the current proposal is that, as we currently understand it, end-game crafted mods are next to useless compared to end-game looted ones, especially when it comes to set the set bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 tollay support en expansion of the mods system the end game gear look rediculas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legiongrey Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Please understand the distinction between begging the question and raising the question. Begging the question is a form of logical fallacy in which a statement or claim is assumed to be true without evidence other than the statement or claim itself. When you beg the question, the initial assumption of a statement is treated as already proven without any logic to show why the statement is true in the first place. However, to beg the question does not mean to raise the question. Raising the question is simply introducing a topic or idea. I am guilty of the latter, but not the former. /golfclap epistemological arguements never get old lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOlympas Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macheath Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Glad to see y'all are making changes, that said... Thats the last thing crafters want to see happen. Its not as big of an issue right now because most of the stuff isn't all that great looking but this hurts mod crafters as well as Custom gear crafting.. The crafted modifications were useless at end-game, anyway. No one chooses to wear inferior armor at end-game just because it looks nicer. Players stick it out with crappy looking armor, at least while they are physically in the raid (.. Operation, whatever.) All the current system does is force players to wear armor they don't like the look of. Crafters still had no market at end-game, because at the end of the day, the vast majority of players choose function over fashion. I'm not sure exactly how you make craftable gear relevant past end-game in a themepark MMO, especially an MMO where "phat lootz" is the principle reason to participate in end-game content. I would think perhaps one solution would be to have purple schematics drop in Operations, which are on-par with the gear that drops in those same operations. The materials needed to craft said gear would also be rare, and also would drop inside the Operations, basically allowing crafters to craft high level armor, but not allowing them to craft it so easily that raiding is no long a necessary part of the process (players who like to raid would be rather upset if anyone could just go out and buy equivalent armor off the GTN, without that crafted armor being as hard to make as their raid drops were to obtain.) Very bad idea. This would make the Mod system a total clustercuss and add more work for the database to load. The current system has its problems but its at least elegant with more standard mods used across all gear than specialized ones. This is a necessary evil in order to make the system work at all. You have to understand the principle reason BioWare did not make the mods from purple items removable in the first place. As you no doubt already know, the "armor rating" mods that typically are found in chest pieces are higher than in boots, gloves, or belts. BioWare did not want a group of players to be able to farm the first boss of an Operation over and over again, eventually finding all the chest pieces they needed to upgrade every piece of armor on their toon with the mods from those chest pieces. That possible exploit of the system was what made BioWare so hesitant to go through with any plan to make removable armor mods in purple items. If they make the armor mod found in the chest piece restricted only to other chest pieces, however, this problem is solved. And since this would (I should think) only apply to items that drop in raids, and the mods found within them, it is not actually that many items which are affected. I don't think BioWare's intention is to make all mods restricted to a certain armor piece, only the mods taken out of purple items found in Operations (and possibly PvP gear.) Crafted mods would be unaffected. -Macheath. Edited January 10, 2012 by Macheath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterin Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The current situation with end game gear and item modifications isn’t final and, in fact, many community members like yourself have correctly guessed at what our plans to correct the current design are. Since this is a fairly important issue to many players, let me disclose more details about what is currently in the work regarding purple items and mods: - All partially moddable purple items will be made fully moddable again, allowing the removal of the armoring, hilt and barrel. - The set bonus of end gear purples (PVP and PVE) will be transferable to custom items. - Some item modifications will be restricted to a certain item type. For example, some item modifications will only fit on helmets, while other will only fit on chests, etc. As usual, the caveats about unfinished work apply, but this should give you and the community a very good idea of our intentions. We are serious about making custom gear an entirely valid alternative to end game gear and we support the players’ ability to customize their appearance all the way to (and including) end game. What about non-moddable purple items? Currently, there is a level 15 purple version of something very similiar Watchmen's Vest(Tython Commendation gear), but it's not moddable at all. And as far as I know, there are no moddable versions of any gear with that type of look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velocity-x Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Wow, you guys just jump right on the yellow text bandwagon! Score one for the vocal minority! The rest of us still want an appearance tab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucretia Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The current situation with end game gear and item modifications isn’t final and, in fact, many community members like yourself have correctly guessed at what our plans to correct the current design are. Since this is a fairly important issue to many players, let me disclose more details about what is currently in the work regarding purple items and mods: - All partially moddable purple items will be made fully moddable again, allowing the removal of the armoring, hilt and barrel. - The set bonus of end gear purples (PVP and PVE) will be transferable to custom items. - Some item modifications will be restricted to a certain item type. For example, some item modifications will only fit on helmets, while other will only fit on chests, etc. As usual, the caveats about unfinished work apply, but this should give you and the community a very good idea of our intentions. We are serious about making custom gear an entirely valid alternative to end game gear and we support the players’ ability to customize their appearance all the way to (and including) end game. Are there any plans to fix the issue with the social gear not being viable for any class that doesn't use light armor as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laiov Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 - All partially moddable purple items will be made fully moddable again, allowing the removal of the armoring, hilt and barrel. - The set bonus of end gear purples (PVP and PVE) will be transferable to custom items. - Some item modifications will be restricted to a certain item type. For example, some item modifications will only fit on helmets, while other will only fit on chests, etc. As usual, the caveats about unfinished work apply, but this should give you and the community a very good idea of our intentions. We are serious about making custom gear an entirely valid alternative to end game gear and we support the players’ ability to customize their appearance all the way to (and including) end game. Very glad to read this. This was my #1 issue. Thanks for the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alrighto Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 great news from Bioware... Now can you make the moddable slave girl (Social) gear heavy armor ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanCP Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Those who want an appearance-tab want to go to Disney World. No matter how you try to convince them to go to Paris, they still want Disney World.You could explain them that they will see the Eiffel Tower,, that they will experience great food and wine, avoid the hordes of obese people and the noisy families, they still don't want to go to Paris. They could see the greatest museums of our times, they still prefer to dress like a princess for a night. You could even tell them that Euro Disney IS RIGHT THERE in Paris if they want to see Mickey and rollercoasters, they still won't change their mind They want nothing else but simplicity, and will turn away from anything new, refreshing, better and more rafiné. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshua Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Wow, you guys just jump right on the yellow text bandwagon! Score one for the vocal minority! The rest of us still want an appearance tab. By being vocal you just placed yourself in the minority. an individual can never speak for 'the rest of us' That being said? Before the game launched, well before Beta was over they talked about modifiable items that would work into end game if we wanted them to. This isn't a deviation of what was promised. Scrapping the mod system and sustainable items for an appearance tab however? would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Now to give Marauders hoods... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahl Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Scrapping the mod system and sustainable items for an appearance tab however? would be. Utter drivel. How you LOOK has no bearing on how your gear performs, and you blathering on about 'sustainable items' is great....well researched, except that all falls apart at level 50. On my Jedi Knight I got lucky and found a robe that looks okay and so far I've been able to mod it to keep up with my level, however...the same cannot be said of my Sith Assasin, Sith Marauder or my Gunslinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helanar Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 This is a necessary evil in order to make the system work at all. You have to understand the principle reason BioWare did not make the mods from purple items removable in the first place. As you no doubt already know, the "armor rating" mods that typically are found in chest pieces are higher than in boots, gloves, or belts. BioWare did not want a group of players to be able to farm the first boss of an Operation over and over again, eventually finding all the chest pieces they needed to upgrade every piece of armor on their toon with the mods from those chest pieces. That possible exploit of the system was what made BioWare so hesitant to go through with any plan to make removable armor mods in purple items. Close but not quite. The issue isn't that chest pieces have higher rating, as the rating of an item will stay constant per armor type, but the AC value is increased in certain slots (helmet, chest, legs). So a Rating 126 armoring when applied to Heavy armor would be say 776 in a chest slot, and 560 in a boot slot. The issue is that people would loot the boots with 560 AC 126 rating, yank out the armoring which would be a 126 rating armoring mod, and place it into the chest, legs or helmet and acquire the 776 AC in the piece for the price of farming the first boss for the boots. That being said, the changes outlined by Dev are A+ and I am definitely looking forward to when they become active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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