Changes coming to PvP in 7.2.1 / Season 2

[Exly]

5 hours ago, RikuvonDrake said:

again, bioware addressed this, separate queues would make wait times for warzones too long for their liking, for both premades and solo players, as such they have one queue with expanding search parameters to make it more likely premades face another premade while at the same time ensuring queue times are reasonable for everyone

bioware reasons and this makes sense IMO, that it is weird to allow grouping up for certain types of group content and not others, so obviously they enable players to group up with their friends for both pvp and pve, welcome to gaming, this is how it has always worked, you are encouraged to play with your friends, bioware wont change that industry standard

the game tries to match a premade vs a premade but like any any game, the search parameters for which players are put into the same warzone is expanding the longer you are in queue, if 8 solo players are in queue at the same time the game will put those 8 into a match, but it there aren't the game will wait a while and then add in a premade to make a warzone happen to avoid long queue times

bioware already doubled down on this system but allowed the queue time to be longer before the search parameters got extended to allow premades in the mix. Those are reasonably "easy" adjustments to balance queue times

The problem is that BioWare has not adequately addressed this issue.  Their reasoning doesn't make sense, and they too often match premade teams with pug teams.

BioWare says that they are doing things to "try" to match premade teams with other premade teams, but they are failing, and I have no reason to believe that things will change just because they say they will try to do a better job.

[Sappharan]

14 hours ago, black_pyros said:

We both want the same. Except unlike you, I value the option to play with friends more than balanced matches. Because of this, it's impossible to fully satisfy both of us. You have every right to ask the BW to satisfy your needs over mine. Naturally, I will always vote against it. I am still happy we can have a civilized discussion. If only more players are like you.

I respect your civility.  👍🏻

[DeannaVoyager]

10 hours ago, RikuvonDrake said:

again, bioware addressed this, separate queues would make wait times for warzones too long for their liking, for both premades and solo players, as such they have one queue with expanding search parameters to make it more likely premades face another premade while at the same time ensuring queue times are reasonable for everyone

 

 

They have no idea what it would do to queue times, because they can't quess how many people would start playing pvp if they were given the option to queue solo only.

My guesses would be:

1) It would most likely slow down premade queue, but if group pvp doesn't have the playerbase to support it, it is not good enough reason to sacrifice the solo players to keep premades alive.

2) Solo matches would be popping a lot faster because premades wouldn't be able to kill the queue, and more people would start playing pvp.

 

And just as a reminded, I've suggested a way to compensate this system to solo players, IF BW insists feeding free matches to a small portion of the playerbase. Premades should only ever get 1 point per match, win or lose. And solo players should get 3 points per match, win or lose. 

Premade players don't want to play fair and they are being rewarded with more points for stacking the deck on their benefit. This needs to end. 

[RikuvonDrake]

9 hours ago, Exly said:

The problem is that BioWare has not adequately addressed this issue.  Their reasoning doesn't make sense, and they too often match premade teams with pug teams.

BioWare says that they are doing things to "try" to match premade teams with other premade teams, but they are failing, and I have no reason to believe that things will change just because they say they will try to do a better job.

you aren't entitled to a detailed 15 page PowerPoint explanation from Bioware, they have plenty of time talked about it in their dev posts and in particularly in the more recent pvp revamp posts/twitch streams. the system they designed matches premades vs premades and solo vs solo if there are enough in queue, if there isn't the search parameters broaden to allow a mix in order to ensure reasonable queue times. the system is working perfectly as bioware intended, they are able to change the parameters, as they addressed in their latest post and I am sure they will continue to do so until they have the best settings based on their data

5 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

 

They have no idea what it would do to queue times, because they can't quess how many people would start playing pvp if they were given the option to queue solo only.

My guesses would be:

1) It would most likely slow down premade queue, but if group pvp doesn't have the playerbase to support it, it is not good enough reason to sacrifice the solo players to keep premades alive.

2) Solo matches would be popping a lot faster because premades wouldn't be able to kill the queue, and more people would start playing pvp.

 

And just as a reminded, I've suggested a way to compensate this system to solo players, IF BW insists feeding free matches to a small portion of the playerbase. Premades should only ever get 1 point per match, win or lose. And solo players should get 3 points per match, win or lose. 

Premade players don't want to play fair and they are being rewarded with more points for stacking the deck on their benefit. This needs to end. 

of course they are aware of what it would do to queue times, BioWare has access to more data than any of us who are just making guess and speculating based on our own very very limited and anecdotal experience in the game. your suggestions would deincentivise players to play with their friends, instead of the opposite which has been Bioware direction for this game for quite a while now. see the most recent interview with former bioware dev david staats for example, he created the seasons system that today we see in galactic seasons + pvp seasons, he specifically says they designed a majority of the objectives to be completed in a group so players could "get to know other players, make friends and get drawn into the game"

until you start looking at the game, its system and the changes bioware mades from their perspective it will be an uphill struggle, you might not like their objectives but you will be able to give better feedback and suggestions they might actually take into account

[krackcommando]

1 hour ago, RikuvonDrake said:

until you start looking at the game, its system and the changes bioware mades from their perspective it will be an uphill struggle, you might not like their objectives but you will be able to give better feedback and suggestions they might actually take into account

this should be particularly clear in the 7.2 updates but it's also more subtly brought out by the pruning in 7.0. the whole idea the players should be one man armies needs to go away. there will always be great players who seem unkillable, and BW has always been slow to deal with balance concerns, but they nerfed the heck out of DCDs, speed buffs, and hard stuns on quite a few classes.

this encourages players to grp together and work together b/c you cannot /faceroll things solo with the ease that you could before with those myriad CDs. I think the pruning was disproportionate, and has created some serious haves and have nots. I don't see a lot of healer/tank combos (yet?) beyond what there was in 5.x-6.x.

as for separate queues...well...that idea is just self-serving, myopic gibberish. most groups I encounter and have ever encountered from 1.0-7.2 are groups of 2 and sometimes 3. at leas half of them (being conservative here) are completely innocuous and ubiquitous, often PVE players who don't wanna go alone into PVP and PVP players who are the last remnants of PVP guilds long since decimated by player loss/attrition.

one thing BW did that I think was completely out of whack was to open up premades to 5-8 man groups. that's absurd. there's only one queue. it's a mixed queue. and allowing full 8m premades is as myopic and self-serving as demanding a separate group queue. you're either going to get 8m super teams or 8m PVE players who just get raked and never queue again (like rated WZs).

remember: rated pvp doesn't exist anymore. it's not just one mixed queue of groups and solos. it's a mix of all skill levels. compromises need to be made on both ends of the spectrum. imo, at least on SF, the population of ppl willing to play arenas at all is incredibly fragile. WZs, I think they're always going to fill b/c no matter how bad you are, there's always something mildly constructive you can do (even if it's just stealth in the end zone all game - don't even unstealth to catch balls; just sit there for a halotraverse or friendly leap).

but in my anecdotal experience on one server, I don't think there are even enough serious players motivated to form 8m's anymore. iunno. maybe if they're going to bring back rated WZs, there'd be incentive for it? honestly, the PVP seasons thing is kinda like...ok. overpriced decos for space barbie's doll house? replica gear? meh. then again, a lot of players seemed to be complaining about how hard it was to max out tokens, so apparently they really wanted those rewards. iunno. they looked like junk to me.

Edited March 18, 2023 by krackcommando
contrition to attrition. lul

[DeannaVoyager]

2 hours ago, RikuvonDrake said:

 

of course they are aware of what it would do to queue times, BioWare has access to more data than any of us who are just making guess and speculating based on our own very very limited and anecdotal experience in the game. your suggestions would deincentivise players to play with their friends, instead of the opposite which has been Bioware direction for this game for quite a while now. see the most recent interview with former bioware dev david staats for example, he created the seasons system that today we see in galactic seasons + pvp seasons, he specifically says they designed a majority of the objectives to be completed in a group so players could "get to know other players, make friends and get drawn into the game"

until you start looking at the game, its system and the changes bioware mades from their perspective it will be an uphill struggle, you might not like their objectives but you will be able to give better feedback and suggestions they might actually take into account

 

The game has an activity finder. It is used to make groups out of random players who prefer queing solo. That is following exactly what David Staats, the former dev said. I must have missed the part where he said people need to form premades of meta classes and holy trinity to bybass the matchmaking and to make the solo players suffer enough, so that they will never set their foot in pvp match again. 

 

You're saying my suggestions would deincentivise players to play with their friends. The current system is doing the same to solo players. However friends can still play together, even if they would end up on opposite side, because the best part of playing with friends happens in voice chat. They might also end up on the same team anyhow, even if they'd queue solo. They also have an option to play pve if they really need to be in the same team to enjoy the game.

I'm often in voice chat with my friends even when they are playing a different game. We can make it work, I don't see why others can't. Unless that "playing with friends" is just an excuse to get free matches and ruin the game from solo players. 

 

When solo players quit playing pvp, there will be less and less potential players for future premades, until pvp dies like team ranked did. But hey, as long as a handful of people got to play with their friends and get free matches, it's fine, right?

 

[Exly]

On 3/18/2023 at 8:53 AM, RikuvonDrake said:

you aren't entitled to a detailed 15 page PowerPoint explanation from Bioware, they have plenty of time talked about it in their dev posts and in particularly in the more recent pvp revamp posts/twitch streams. the system they designed matches premades vs premades and solo vs solo if there are enough in queue, if there isn't the search parameters broaden to allow a mix in order to ensure reasonable queue times. the system is working perfectly as bioware intended, they are able to change the parameters, as they addressed in their latest post and I am sure they will continue to do so until they have the best settings based on their data

of course they are aware of what it would do to queue times, BioWare has access to more data than any of us who are just making guess and speculating based on our own very very limited and anecdotal experience in the game. your suggestions would deincentivise players to play with their friends, instead of the opposite which has been Bioware direction for this game for quite a while now. see the most recent interview with former bioware dev david staats for example, he created the seasons system that today we see in galactic seasons + pvp seasons, he specifically says they designed a majority of the objectives to be completed in a group so players could "get to know other players, make friends and get drawn into the game"

until you start looking at the game, its system and the changes bioware mades from their perspective it will be an uphill struggle, you might not like their objectives but you will be able to give better feedback and suggestions they might actually take into account

I disagree on two points.  The first is your use of the word perfectly, and the second is your assertion that they know what affect separating queue would have on queue times.

Yes, they have access to data that they choose not to share with us, but that does not mean that they know how to use it. 

You say that someone said in an interview that they want to encourage people to do group content.  However, if people stop doing pvp because premade groups are dominating they game, then they are actually encouraging people to stop doing it.

Pvp is group content.  Sometimes people group with friends, and sometimes the join the queue with the intention of being added to a team that is selected by the activity finder.  Either way, it is still group content.  By making pvp less desirable to do, they are discouraging people from doing it rather than encouraging them to do it.

I also hope that they don't refuse to listen to feedback that is not in line with their objective.  I would rather hope that they listen to their player base and use the information that we provide to make the game better for us, not just to prove some internal line of thinking. 

[Yusta]

today i logged in after almost 2 weeks  of not playing pvp, first warzone against premade of 8, logged off.

i don't care anymore and suggest anyone else to just accept reality, this is the new norm and isn't going to change anytime soon.

if you want to play solo plenty of alternative out there.

[krackcommando]

5 hours ago, Exly said:

Pvp is group content.  Sometimes people group with friends, and sometimes the join the queue with the intention of being added to a team that is selected by the activity finder.  Either way, it is still group content.  By making pvp less desirable to do, they are discouraging people from doing it rather than encouraging them to do it.

it's been a long time (~3 years) since I used grp finder for something as simple as a SM operation, but let me tell you how that experience goes. Your guild forms an 8m or 16m grp. then one of them drops. they hop into the queue together, picking up their one lone queuer, and then they complete the operation with max rewards.

or scenario two: your guild doesn't have quite enough players to fill out the daily SM operation, so you form up a 7m squad and go into grp finder to cherry pick that last piece.

what happens FAR LESS FREQUENTLY is that 8-16 random dudes queue up and are put together on the same OPs team for the daily SM conquest or w/e squad.

here's my point: this solo queue thing. it works with SMALL grps on /faceroll content. either because of low population or difficulty of content, you don't see that beyond watered down vet fps/uprisings (that don't even require support roles) and MM FPs, 99% of which are /faceroll old and, again, only require a very small grp of ppl (4) to put together. You're doing that with 16 for a WZ and 8 for an arena. and the difficulty rating of WZs and arenas is (by definition) dynamic.

very rarely is large or high end grp content a pug activity. you might pug a few pieces, or you might sell a few carry spots. but even SM OPs are largely premades. and it's not like vet FPs aren't mixed queues either. you can premade those as well.

so yeah. you can solo queue anything you like. but to say no, you can't premade in "my queue!" no, man. that's not how anything in this game works outside of story quests, which you can still bring friends into if you want. hence, the "this is an MMO. grping is part of the deal. get used to it" argument is woven thoroughly into this game. I generally dislike the opinions of the guy you're replying to, but he's absolutely right in that the game's view of an mmo is that you can grp up. it's like that in every single queue. honestly, solo rated was the only queue that didn't allow that, and while solo rated was dynamic, it also broke the most unique aspect of this game's pvp. you'd never have seen an all dps rated WZ, or one devoid of heals. with solos, everyone needed to be their own tank, healer, and dps all rolled into one.

Edited March 19, 2023 by krackcommando

[Monhnich]

Arenas should be one healer per team or none at all.  Why premades are allowed to queue with a healer while opposing team cannot. Wanna start making changes bioware.. Baby steps at a time,, then start there. System should not allow a healer unless there is one on each team. 

Bioware has taken No action about premades in 12 years. Zero! This subject is getting old  bioware Very old.

  Self-reliable Resourceful Independent - something that only solo players can understand. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Monhnich

[Exly]

8 hours ago, krackcommando said:

it's been a long time (~3 years) since I used grp finder for something as simple as a SM operation, but let me tell you how that experience goes. Your guild forms an 8m or 16m grp. then one of them drops. they hop into the queue together, picking up their one lone queuer, and then they complete the operation with max rewards.

or scenario two: your guild doesn't have quite enough players to fill out the daily SM operation, so you form up a 7m squad and go into grp finder to cherry pick that last piece.

what happens FAR LESS FREQUENTLY is that 8-16 random dudes queue up and are put together on the same OPs team for the daily SM conquest or w/e squad.

here's my point: this solo queue thing. it works with SMALL grps on /faceroll content. either because of low population or difficulty of content, you don't see that beyond watered down vet fps/uprisings (that don't even require support roles) and MM FPs, 99% of which are /faceroll old and, again, only require a very small grp of ppl (4) to put together. You're doing that with 16 for a WZ and 8 for an arena. and the difficulty rating of WZs and arenas is (by definition) dynamic.

very rarely is large or high end grp content a pug activity. you might pug a few pieces, or you might sell a few carry spots. but even SM OPs are largely premades. and it's not like vet FPs aren't mixed queues either. you can premade those as well.

so yeah. you can solo queue anything you like. but to say no, you can't premade in "my queue!" no, man. that's not how anything in this game works outside of story quests, which you can still bring friends into if you want. hence, the "this is an MMO. grping is part of the deal. get used to it" argument is woven thoroughly into this game. I generally dislike the opinions of the guy you're replying to, but he's absolutely right in that the game's view of an mmo is that you can grp up. it's like that in every single queue. honestly, solo rated was the only queue that didn't allow that, and while solo rated was dynamic, it also broke the most unique aspect of this game's pvp. you'd never have seen an all dps rated WZ, or one devoid of heals. with solos, everyone needed to be their own tank, healer, and dps all rolled into one.

So, forming groups for pve is different than it is for pvp.  I don't know anyone that doesn't already know that.  Now tell me, how do you queue for pvp without going trough the activity finder?

Even if you use the pvp challenge function, you do that through the activity finder.  It's not like pve where people can form groups and enter an operation without going through the acivity finder.

So yeah, queueing through the activity finder is how everyone that I know gets access to pvp matches.

Also, pve and pvp are different game types, and operations don't quit the game if you beat them too badly.  However, in pvp, people do stop playing because of the bad experiences that they have at the hands of premade groups in pvp, and that is a problem.

[krackcommando]

9 hours ago, Exly said:

So, forming groups for pve is different than it is for pvp.  I don't know anyone that doesn't already know that.  Now tell me, how do you queue for pvp without going trough the activity finder?

Even if you use the pvp challenge function, you do that through the activity finder.  It's not like pve where people can form groups and enter an operation without going through the acivity finder.

So yeah, queueing through the activity finder is how everyone that I know gets access to pvp matches.

Also, pve and pvp are different game types, and operations don't quit the game if you beat them too badly.  However, in pvp, people do stop playing because of the bad experiences that they have at the hands of premade groups in pvp, and that is a problem.

I think maybe you missed my point. It isn't any different. and in every single queue, you can go into it as both a premade and a solo. they're all mixed (grp) queues. the only queue that ever wasn't a mixed queue was RATED pvp. and that no longer exists. so insisting on separate queues is an anomaly. and it's antithetical to the basic principles underlying group content in this game.

that said (imo), compromises need to be made. it blows my mind that BW would allow more than half a team to be one premade if for no other reason than that pvp queues are fragile, particularly arena queues. the arena population cannot support full teams (because it's usually just one team, and there's usually just one match at a time - or at least that's my experience on SF).

WZs are a different story. most times of the day, there's a lot of turnover (again, my experience on SF). each new pop, I see 4-6 new faces between the two teams (4-6/16). the WZ queue can survive. especially when there are more than one large premade in the queue, as there often is when in-season.

nevertheless, it feels unreasonable to allow more than half the team to be premade. BW disagrees. in fact, BW seems to think pvp should be more like pve and that you should build you own team as much as possible and treat each pop like something serious. say a HM OP. but it's also the equivalent of a vet FP. everything is jumbled b/c there is no rated anymore. yay? piss and moan about it all you want. it's clear the game design is to encourage and reward forming up your own grp. and to be fair, that also leads to more success and downing harder content in pve as well.

[Exly]

2 hours ago, krackcommando said:

I think maybe you missed my point. It isn't any different. and in every single queue, you can go into it as both a premade and a solo. they're all mixed (grp) queues. the only queue that ever wasn't a mixed queue was RATED pvp. and that no longer exists. so insisting on separate queues is an anomaly. and it's antithetical to the basic principles underlying group content in this game.

that said (imo), compromises need to be made. it blows my mind that BW would allow more than half a team to be one premade if for no other reason than that pvp queues are fragile, particularly arena queues. the arena population cannot support full teams (because it's usually just one team, and there's usually just one match at a time - or at least that's my experience on SF).

WZs are a different story. most times of the day, there's a lot of turnover (again, my experience on SF). each new pop, I see 4-6 new faces between the two teams (4-6/16). the WZ queue can survive. especially when there are more than one large premade in the queue, as there often is when in-season.

nevertheless, it feels unreasonable to allow more than half the team to be premade. BW disagrees. in fact, BW seems to think pvp should be more like pve and that you should build you own team as much as possible and treat each pop like something serious. say a HM OP. but it's also the equivalent of a vet FP. everything is jumbled b/c there is no rated anymore. yay? piss and moan about it all you want. it's clear the game design is to encourage and reward forming up your own grp. and to be fair, that also leads to more success and downing harder content in pve as well.

I understand your point.  I just have a different opinion.  

People who queue for flashpoints who would rather queue with people that they know or trust can form a group if they want to, or they can choose to join the queue and get matched with other players through activity finder.  If they choose to have the system form the group the system it will then build it with one and will make sure that there it is built with 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 dps and will then it will start the flashpoint.

For operations, groups can be formed for selected SM operations, but if you want to do an op that is not available through activity finder, or you want to do HM or NiM level content, then it is left to us as players for form our own group, and we enter the op through the operation portal.  That said, I really don't know anyone who solo queues for SM ops, so the fact that it is possible to do that really doesn't matter that much.

Now think about warzones and the turnover that you are seeing, and ask yourself why so much turnover? Remember, people don't need to compromise, they can just choose to quit and do something else with their time.  After all, this is a game, and if people aren't having fun, then quitting is probably the best choice for a lot of them.

I also play on SF and I see queue times increase after I face a strong premade team.  That happens with enough regularity that I believe that the premade teams chase people away. They choose to stop playing instead of re-queueing to play more matches.  Then when that happens enough times, people just give up wanting to join warzones altogether.

I don't have an opinion on arenas because I don't do them.  I do suspect however that the same issue would apply, and people might choose to quit doing them if they suffer from the same team balance issues that exist in warzones.

Lastly, if I think that putting premade groups up against pug groups it wrong, then why would I want to add to the problem by forming or joining one?  The answer is I wouldn't and won't.  Maybe if there were separate queues, but not for as long as they share the same queue.

[krackcommando]

1 hour ago, Exly said:

Lastly, if I think that putting premade groups up against pug groups it wrong, then why would I want to add to the problem by forming or joining one?  The answer is I wouldn't and won't.  Maybe if there were separate queues, but not for as long as they share the same queue.

it's cool that you disagree and all, but you do realize that BW wants ppl to grp up, right? I don't really care. I solo queue all the time. premades only ruin my day in Vandin and Quesh where they literally hold the ball at mid to prolong the game. I'd quit those if BW weren't so uncompromising on their deserter crap.

iunno what you're doing or seeing on the same server, but I don't see any big bad premades shutting down the WZ queue. are you sure it isn't just you (and your friends?) who leave the queue? b/c I still get pops until the population drops late at night. They do shutdown the arena queue though, b/c the queue is much smaller to begin with.

[Nee-Elder]

This entire thread is soon coming to pending Update conclusion,  because March 28th: https://www.swtor.com/info/news/article/20230324

Edited March 24, 2023 by Nee-Elder

[TrixxieTriss]

On 3/21/2023 at 6:22 AM, krackcommando said:

it's cool that you disagree and all, but you do realize that BW wants ppl to grp up, right? I don't really care. I solo queue all the time. premades only ruin my day in Vandin and Quesh where they literally hold the ball at mid to prolong the game. I'd quit those if BW weren't so uncompromising on their deserter crap.

iunno what you're doing or seeing on the same server, but I don't see any big bad premades shutting down the WZ queue. are you sure it isn't just you (and your friends?) who leave the queue? b/c I still get pops until the population drops late at night. They do shutdown the arena queue though, b/c the queue is much smaller to begin with.

At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter how BioWare want you to play if it’s not fun or not something you want to do.  

Players will decide wether being made to group up is what they want. If they prefer solo queueing & BioWare keep making that really unappealing, players will just stop pvping or leave the game. Rewards can only do so much to keep players doing something they don’t like. 

BioWare should know that by now 🤦‍♀️ Because when in the last 11 years has making players do stuff they really dislike or hate not made people leave the game 🤷🏻‍♀️

And every time they’ve done it & the majority push back, BioWare double down cause they can’t admit their ideas don’t always mesh with what the players want.

I think more than anything, their stubbornness to listen or properly engage in player feedback when there is a contentious development issue is what’s driven so many from the game over the years.

They won’t even have a 2 way conversation with the players about this pre-made topic. They flat out refuse because they know how contentious it is. When they refuse to communicate & double down on an idea, that’s when you know they are trying to force players in a certain direction. 

Sadly, BioWare never learn that it’s this type of doubling down type of development & poor community engagement that causes people to leave. It doesn’t matter what the issue is, as long as they continue this approach, players will always leave in disgust. 
 

Edited March 25, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[Bullyabass]

Premades make for boring games and slow queue times

Make a solo only queue.

If it doesn't work then scrap it but I'm confident it will be the more popular queue and will encourage more people into pvp

 

 

[black_pyros]

8 minutes ago, Bullyabass said:

Premades make for boring games and slow queue times

Funny, how I have the exact opposite experience. The most fun, intensive, thrilling games I ever had were usually the premade vs premade ones.

[LD_Little_Dragon]

7 hours ago, black_pyros said:

Funny, how I have the exact opposite experience. The most fun, intensive, thrilling games I ever had were usually the premade vs premade ones.

So is that another vote for separate queues then?  It would guarantee premade vs premade games and if they're that much fun ...

[krackcommando]

19 minutes ago, LD_Little_Dragon said:

So is that another vote for separate queues then?  It would guarantee premade vs premade games and if they're that much fun ...

you do understand that there's a massive difference between grping up and putting together a full 8m premade, right?

it's patently absurd to banish all grps to one queue because a couple guilds can run around with 6-8m murder squads. you'd also have to adopt the asinine idea that groups could only be "even numbers" just to accommodate that strat. so either group queue becomes full 8m premade vs. full 8m premade in a group only queue, or you screw over every single person who wants to group with a friend just to avoid a handful of jerks. sorry. no. get out of here. that is a non-starter.

[Prapcaster]

4 hours ago, krackcommando said:

you do understand that there's a massive difference between grping up and putting together a full 8m premade, right?

it's patently absurd to banish all grps to one queue because a couple guilds can run around with 6-8m murder squads. you'd also have to adopt the asinine idea that groups could only be "even numbers" just to accommodate that strat. so either group queue becomes full 8m premade vs. full 8m premade in a group only queue, or you screw over every single person who wants to group with a friend just to avoid a handful of jerks. sorry. no. get out of here. that is a non-starter.

These days the word premade has lost all of it's meaning. Some people that invite a couple people they think are good into  an 8 man and aren't even using discord is hardly what I'd consider a premade but it get's demonized all the same. The only thing I'd consider a premade is if it's all one guild, they run two tank two healers and they're using discord to communicate through the match. If people can't beat a group who just happens to be playing together imo they deserve the loss because most of those groups are throwing the game.

[Bullyabass]

On 3/26/2023 at 9:42 AM, black_pyros said:

Funny, how I have the exact opposite experience. The most fun, intensive, thrilling games I ever had were usually the premade vs premade ones.

 

I find premades farming each other in mid about as much fun as parsing on a target dummy

But if that's your thing then you be you and queue as a premade in the general queue

And give people who want to play without premades a solo queue

 

[Bullyabass]

On 3/26/2023 at 9:25 PM, Prapcaster said:

These days the word premade has lost all of it's meaning. Some people that invite a couple people they think are good into  an 8 man and aren't even using discord is hardly what I'd consider a premade but it get's demonized all the same. The only thing I'd consider a premade is if it's all one guild, they run two tank two healers and they're using discord to communicate through the match. If people can't beat a group who just happens to be playing together imo they deserve the loss because most of those groups are throwing the game.

You're talking about two extremes as if there's nothing in between

Noone cares if a couple of people queue up together and pretty much do their own thing but when 4+ people queue up together with memey teams and then just run around 4v1ing people and ignore all the objectives then that makes for boring matches. If they're on your team they just abandon you especially if you're trying to do objectives, if you're on the other team then its just chain stunned and 4v1ed.

The problem is you cant know which is which so the simplest way is to just say separate the queues. If queue times get too long then people can queue for both, if they want one type then they just queue for that.

[Nee-Elder]

15 hours ago, Bullyabass said:

 If queue times get too long then people can queue for both, if they want one type then they just queue for that.

i realize it's only been like a half-a-day so far  but...  Anyone tested the new queue changes yet?

More  'premades' vs. groups against eachother?

Less  solo vs. 'premade'  situations?

Any noticeable difference at all?

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

i realize it's only been like a half-a-day so far  but...  Anyone tested the new queue changes yet?

More  'premades' vs. groups against eachother?

Less  solo vs. 'premade'  situations?

Any noticeable difference at all?

I’ve been wondering the same thing