Changes coming to PvP in 7.2.1 / Season 2

[Enomars]

Thank you so much I really appreciate the changes.   
The queing times are logical.  

Arenas:
For ME I can do well on my own. I can encourage other members of Pick Up Groups.  I am not against premades, but in my experience Premades can global one new player very quickly.  (Global - killing a player outright in the span of close to one Global Cool Down)   While this is almost by nature what is going to happen pretty often anyway, newer players don't learn anything from laying dead of the floor every single match.  

Warzones:
Pick up Groups are a bit hit and miss for wins.  Two or Three players usually cannot win a match if 5 other players want to ignore objectives.   Just knowing the other team is not a premade gives hope.  Hope is a dangerous weapon.  If we have hope we can create a spark. If we have a spark we can ignite a flame and we can win!

[krackcommando]

9 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

i always wanted Ranked & Regs to be combined ( into 1 giant ranking system,

the only reason to create a separate queue system for solos and groups is if you are creating rated with public leaderboards and merit-based rewards. and that would destroy casual pvp as we know it because 90% of premades are just that: casual. AND most of them are 4m or less. AND it would require creating 4 queues, solo arena + WZ, grp arena + WZ. furthermore, the group queue would have to be FULL group, not the more common 2- 3- and 4m grps.

so it's impossible to make everything "rated." or to put it another way, if you thought it was difficult to moderate/police the solo arenas, it will be exponentially more difficult to police when everything is "rated." that would also require tightening down the already draconic rules about leaving. you'd have to penalize players simply for declining a pop.

and the reason so few ppl play rated (ok, a big reason why good players don't play rated) is b/c they do care about how they look publicly and don't want to look bad on a leader board, which leads to only playing meta specs when the do play and completely avoiding the game mode altogether. so no. there are a plethora of reasons to avoid an all-inclusive, publicly visible rated system (especially with rewards).

[RikuvonDrake]

15 hours ago, emilydeylan said:

Great more premades making the que's worse for everyone else trying to solo que.

just make some friends, group up and have some fun together

[Nee-Elder]

8 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

. so no. there are a plethora of reasons to avoid an all-inclusive, publicly visible rated system (especially with rewards).

We're straying off-topic here ( my fault probably ) but just  1 quick point of clarification:  You removed the most important part of my quote  lol  ...  re:  " like ESO has with 'Cyrodiil' "  ,  As in i didn't mean necessarily combining for the QUEUE system, but rather for a large open-world PVP map area  which would then have it's own Leaderboard (for everyone) just like ESO does for Cyrodiil .

So yeah, a  STAR WARS version  of Cyrodiil .

And no i'm not worried about "limitations of game engine"  or  " remember we tried that already with Ilum "  anymore, cuz  64-bit coming soon!

--------

Anyways..... back on-topic:  Looking forward to  @Shabir_Dhillon's  post hopefully droppin' today or tomorrow?   wink wink, nudge nudge 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Nee-Elder
Reason: if ESO can do it (including the moderating) why can't SWTOR?

[Lost-Savage-XIII]

50 minutes ago, krackcommando said:

they reduced the medal requirement by 1 and made it easier to gain medals (on CW only atm).

Very true, I should have explained better they raised ONE way to earn medals and reduced the High Medalist by 1, However they did not reduce the WHOLE NUMBER of medals required for the season.

On Premades, it is only certain maps they dominate, but its not so much the problem but the solution that I personally have an issue with. They are going to INCREASE que times which can already be 20-30 minutes for WZs and longer for Arenas, thereby ensuring fewer matches to earn rewards and whatnots.

Everything in this game needs to be calculated so that the average PAYING CUSTOMER can complete in the timeframe, or else you are screwing over those who spend their hard earned money. That is the bottom line. So if you are running three different tracks Conquest, GS, PvP) you have to ensure that ALL players not just those who spend 4-5 hours a day can complete.

[krackcommando]

14 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

We're straying off-topic here ( my fault probably ) but just  1 quick point of clarification:  You removed the most important part of my quote  lol  ...  re:  " like ESO has with 'Cyrodiil' "  ,  As in i didn't mean necessarily combining for the QUEUE system, but rather for a large open-world PVP map area  which would then have it's own Leaderboard (for everyone) just like ESO does for Cyrodiil .

So yeah, a  STAR WARS version  of Cyrodiil .

I don't know anything about pvp in ESO. I played the game in beta but never left the starting area. I picked it up again on steam and left after the starting area of another race. (no offense to you, taste is taste but...) the game is garbage. each time I picked it up, I wondered aloud why I was playing this game on a pc when it's clearly designed for a console and controller. even the keybinds felt un-intuitive.

I've played GW2. I'm familiar with world v world combat. I liked ilum/wintergrasp, but I don't think ilum ever had good rewards or enticement to play. it was more of a sandbox. the wonky gear chests was one of the worst rng gearing solutions swtor has used. but I did like ilum as an idea.

[Samcuu]

1 hour ago, krackcommando said:

they reduced the medal requirement by 1 and made it easier to gain medals (on CW only atm).

Yeah but you only gain attacking and defending points by defeating players. If ur holding ppl off trying to defend a node and u die in the process you still get nothing apparently lol. 

[Crystal_Mind]

25 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

Yeah but you only gain attacking and defending points by defeating players. If ur holding ppl off trying to defend a node and u die in the process you still get nothing apparently lol. 

No, the attacker/defender points from kills are separate from regular defender point ticks.
Source: I've been on PTS

Edited March 9, 2023 by Crystal_Mind

[Balameb]

1 hour ago, krackcommando said:

I don't know anything about pvp in ESO. I played the game in beta but never left the starting area. I picked it up again on steam and left after the starting area of another race. (no offense to you, taste is taste but...) the game is garbage. each time I picked it up, I wondered aloud why I was playing this game on a pc when it's clearly designed for a console and controller. even the keybinds felt un-intuitive.

I don't fully disagree. But the game even after several major F*ck ups and constant balance changes that iritates everyone; ESO is BtP + Buy Upgrades + a Subscription that makes not having it way more restrictive than SWTOR. And let's not even enter the horribly expensive cosmetics. Yet they still have a few times more players than SWTOR.

Besides, Nee is not saying tha ESO is better than SWTOR. Just pointing to one of the particulars aspects of how ESO managed to have a more than healthy pvp community, even in OW.

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Balameb

[krackcommando]

I replied to make clear that the reference was lost on me as i never left the starter area on two tries.

[Nee-Elder]

6 minutes ago, Balameb said:

Besides, Nee is not saying tha ESO is better than SWTOR. Just pointing to one of the particulars aspects of how ESO managed to have a more than healthy pvp community, even in OW.

Somehow i've run out of clicky-likes on these new forums AGAIN  lol ugh ... But anyways, correct ^  , i'm def. not saying  ESO > SWTOR .   In fact, since i've sadly been playing both from each  beta until now ( non-stop basically ) , i would say they are  practically equal games of the same MMO 'coin'  ( pun intended  ) .

However, ESO decided early on in development to scrap using  flawed/old  'hero engine'  in favor of their own hybrid , but SWTOR  remained with 'hero engine' .

My only point is: Perhaps with 64-bit version coming, it  might allow SWTOR the freedom to  copy ESO's  Cyrodiil  24/7  PVP open world zone & leaderboard system ( STAR WARS style ) .

Heck,  it's not like SWTOR doesn't copy off  ESO all the time anyways.

[Nee-Elder]

21 minutes ago, winpersec said:

Those are 0 points, don't do that if you feel that much frustrated.

Not "frustrated" at all actually.  Just bored.

I love PVP and Arenas are fine, for what they are, but unless BioWare wants to pay ME for my gaming , i just simply don't have the time/patience to complete 25 ARENA Weeklys ( 24 arena matches x 25 = 600, give or take, arena matches ) in 12 weeks.  It's boring & tedious & grindy.  And imo there are better more enjoyable ways to spend time in SWTOR.

Also, you are wrong about the "0 points" thing, only because it has nothing to do with the issue lol nice deflection though.  ( The issue, as i'm sure you really know but are pretending not to know , is that  cheevo box = 6 more TOKENS , since it = the last box to complete the final Achievement & Title )

21 minutes ago, winpersec said:

You, Nee-Elder, Deanna and a couple more gamers, who post in every PvP thread to make a huge volume for your personal opinion?

lol "every"  thread, eh?

So nice when i see new fans.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Nee-Elder
Reason: humans are so funny

[VegaMist]

Just wanted to add regarding the "leave match early" penalty... Yesterday, we experienced a server crash. Everyone was kicked out. Once logged back in, those who were kicked out of the warzones discovered they had 20-min time-out penalty. Yes, I was among them. Unless the system "learns" to tell the difference between voluntary (rage quit, life happens, etc.) and involuntary (server crash, connection drop, etc.) quits, such penalty creates more problems than it solves. Just saying.

[winpersec]

16 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

24 arena matches x 25 = 600, give or take

Or just 200 if you win all of them. In medias res it's like 300 if you keep winrate around 50%

Play better, win more. With 60% winrate it's just 273 matches over 12 weeks, so just 3 matches per day and once a week you have to play 5.

Quote

So nice when i see new fans

I see your posts in literally every PvP/GSF thread.

Edited March 9, 2023 by winpersec

[darkzannah]

Since the ranked has disappeared the arenas become as toxic as the ranked players are treated as premade. They are told to go back to pve I think the players are free to play the arenas or or do wz at 8. On the other hand, the composition of the arena groups is necessary

[winpersec]

29 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

Also, you are wrong about the "0 points" thing, only because it has nothing to do with the issue lol nice deflection though.  ( The issue, as i'm sure you really know but are pretending not to know , is that  cheevo box = 6 more TOKENS , since it = the last box to complete the final Achievement & Title )

Missed this.

Farm those missing tokens in the next season. Why would you need them right now? The achievement seemingly not meant for everybody, I myself ditched the WZ part of it to enjoy arenas only without the necessity to play objectives or even to see the huttball mode.

[Nee-Elder]

10 minutes ago, winpersec said:

Play better, win more.

ah , so you're one of those "L2P" types.

12 minutes ago, winpersec said:

I see your posts in literally every PvP/GSF thread.

Cool story , but you might want to check the definition of the word "literally" and the word "every" .

And if my posts frustrate you so much, stop quoting & replying to me so much.

-----

Anyways, back on-topic:  Looking forward to hearing more about these next Season 2 rewards  @Shabir_Dhillon since i have nothing to spend my 14 tokens on yet.

[Lost-Savage-XIII]

41 minutes ago, winpersec said:

Those are 0 points, don't do that if you feel that much frustrated.

You, Nee-Elder, Deanna and a couple more gamers, who post in every PvP thread to make a huge volume for your personal opinion?

 The amount of premades in actual PvP is neglectable.

that's not an issue at all. 0 points achievements mean nothing for the worst cheevo hunters. You still get 100% without those.

I am not from BW by any means, but I think you're missing some medicaments to cure you weed addiction. Remember, recreational weed is a drug that causes severe conditions. Medical too, though, but there can be reasons.

Couple things:

You earn 12 tokens from doing the full 25 weeks. you can't buy any of the armor, weapons, or mounts with 12, so you are either doing TWO (2) seasons to buy a RETREAD piece of cosmetic armor. So if you do not want to take a year to get them you need to do the chieves. So the chieves matter VERY MUCH!

As far as knowing I post in "every thread" is kinda stalkery but honestly, I do not care how anyone want to play the game, except when it interferes with the way ANYONE ELSE enjoys the game, they got rid of PvP servers, they got rid of ranked, they give us what? 

You talk about how only 5 people are driving the issue, if that's the case we would have Legacy ops mounts, and 50 ops.

They have the numbers they know who got what how many people earn the rewards and they know what they didn't. They are trying however poorly to fix the medals because they know they are a problem, but instead of keeping it simple they change so much, instead of doing simple math. I was on the PTS didn't see a huge increase in medals, and why only increase for defense? You think 5 people can drive them to change anything you really haven't been playing SWTOR that long.

 

PS the word is "MEDICATIONS" and yes I am high

[TrixxieTriss]

5 hours ago, Lost-Savage-XIII said:

Very true, I should have explained better they raised ONE way to earn medals and reduced the High Medalist by 1, However they did not reduce the WHOLE NUMBER of medals required for the season.

On Premades, it is only certain maps they dominate, but its not so much the problem but the solution that I personally have an issue with. They are going to INCREASE que times which can already be 20-30 minutes for WZs and longer for Arenas, thereby ensuring fewer matches to earn rewards and whatnots.

Everything in this game needs to be calculated so that the average PAYING CUSTOMER can complete in the timeframe, or else you are screwing over those who spend their hard earned money. That is the bottom line. So if you are running three different tracks Conquest, GS, PvP) you have to ensure that ALL players not just those who spend 4-5 hours a day can complete.

The simple answer to that is to queue solo if it’s taking too long for you to pop 🤷🏻‍♀️. It’s just the opposite of people saying to solo players we should group up if we are getting pummelled by premades. If your queue time is too long, then there likely aren’t any premades in the queue. So split up your large group into smaller groups or play solo. 

[steveerkcanjerk]

2 hours ago, Monhnich said:

How.. YOu mean how they went from 23 servers down to 2 U.S server.. soon to be ONe server, and the remaining U.S players will merge into European servers.  You know Jackie's Pos is an insult? right! I'm about to be banned from the forums like many others before / after me..  but not before saying this entire team of developers is an insult to the entire gaming industry. Wonder about their credentials?? are they realy game developers.. We will never know.. 

my man relax, also it sounds like this goes way deeper then pvp queues. And if you think that sure that can be your opinion but there are way way worse games out there then this. Also almost every mmo practically has gone through server reduction unless they have cross server queues not to mention the graveyard of worse mmos. It sounds like you need to have a beer or something and mellow out. 

[emilydeylan]

21 hours ago, RikuvonDrake said:

just make some friends, group up and have some fun together

I have but you have no chance against 2 groups of full guildies in voice chat coordinating who to melt at the same time.

[JackieKo]

On 3/8/2023 at 4:00 PM, Nee-Elder said:

Thanks  @JackieKo and also please if you ( or @Shabir_Dhillon ) is allowed to say:  Any chance the Achievements required 'Weekly' total of 25 for ARENAS will be reduced to like 15 or something more reasonable to help keep some of us from checking into a mental institution?

This just came across my desk actually! The following will be implemented with 7.2.1 and it will be added to the patch notes and PvP Season 2 article at publish. I'll also update the OP, so all the info is in one place. 

• The requirements for the Arena Advocator and Warzone Warrior Achievements have been reduced from 25 weekly completions to 12

Thanks! 

[NicoleMay]

MUCH BETTER. THANK YOU SO MUCH

[Crystal_Mind]

16 minutes ago, JackieKo said:

The following will be implemented with 7.2.1 and it will be added to the patch notes and PvP Season 2 article at publish. I'll also update the OP, so all the info is in one place. 

• The requirements for the Arena Advocator and Warzone Warrior Achievements have been reduced from 25 weekly completions to 12

I'm not surprised, but I am a little disappointed that this is the fix the team decided to go with.

While this does ease the pressure on those who PvP only during the season in pursuit of tokens, it does nothing for people who enjoy PvP outside of it, and fails to address the root cause of frustration with the requirements on that achievement.

Right now, a warzone weekly is [4 wins or 12 losses]. An arena weekly is [8 wins or 24 losses]. The implication is that arenas take half the time to complete, but that's simply not the case. Most arenas I participated in during season 1 went to 3 rounds; about half of them went to acid in at least 1 of those rounds (heavy mit tank and healer presence contributes to long matches). Arenas can be quick and decisive, but on balance I find they take just as long as a warzone, especially when taking queue time into account. A more universally applicable 'fix'  would have been reducing the arena point requirement to something like [6 wins or 18 losses], but instead the team's gone with a band-aid over the symptoms.

[JowyyKazza]

I am pleased to see that changes are being made, I was dreading the idea of 25 more arena weekly’s, but 12 I think I can manage. I look forward to see how these changes work out, and how improvements are made to other warzones besides civil war.

Edited March 10, 2023 by JowyyKazza
I just woke up and can’t word yet.