1 HOUR LOCKDOWN BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO WAIT TILL MY RAVAGE WAS OVER AND QUIT???

[yandcabral]

2 hours ago, Exly said:

Well then, I guess I'm back to believing that they should just eliminate the lockout penalties altogether.   People should not be punished for things that are out of their control, and I would rather see a system where no one gets punished than one where victims of disconnects are punished just to make the toxic few happy.

I guess it should work, at server peak times. Any other time, if the players on the losing team leave and there's not enough people in queue, the players who happen to be winning would have the game closed on their faces. Injustice all the same.

I believe creating a categories system would make the pvp more balanced and enjoyable, reducing the amount of dropouts.

• For warzones, something around 10 levels of difference.
• For arenas, same as wz, plus 3 tiers of armor, with buyable armor tier limited by character levels. Plus you can only get currency for stronger armor by winning matches.
• For GSF, i don't know, amount of points invested on ship upgrade, perhaps?

[Achnaattwo]

question, and maybe it was already said, I just didn't noticed

while in Operation group, if someone disconnects, they still show in group, but disconnected ?  

Usually you can confirm this, if they're on the  same Voice Coms, and disconnected from there as well

what I'm implying , the game notices you have disconnected, and you have some time limit to reconnect. If that happens then  a player shouldn't be Penalized if they can reconnect in that time from.

I'm sure that would work with the legitimate disconnects, if they attempt to reconnect, and the not going to take this loss players, would use the excuse they couldn't reconnect in time.

back to the question again, but doesn't the game already know if you disconnected, or just left ?

[yandcabral]

On 1/12/2023 at 6:28 PM, Achnaattwo said:

question, and maybe it was already said, I just didn't noticed

while in Operation group, if someone disconnects, they still show in group, but disconnected ?  

Usually you can confirm this, if they're on the  same Voice Coms, and disconnected from there as well

what I'm implying , the game notices you have disconnected, and you have some time limit to reconnect. If that happens then  a player shouldn't be Penalized if they can reconnect in that time from.

I'm sure that would work with the legitimate disconnects, if they attempt to reconnect, and the not going to take this loss players, would use the excuse they couldn't reconnect in time.

back to the question again, but doesn't the game already know if you disconnected, or just left ?

 

Well, the situation is not really the same. In pve, a team can afford a couple of minutes to see if the DCed player will come back, in pvp, they often do not. I saw a fair number of arenas turnabouts, when one of the teams lost one player and didn't get a replacement.

[imthespamman]

2 hours ago, yandcabral said:

 

Well, the situation is not really the same. In pve, a team can afford a couple of minutes to see if the DCed player will come back, in pvp, they often do not. I saw a fair number of arenas turnabouts, when one of the teams lost one player and didn't get a replacement.

Those few minutes can decide whether you get your timer or not. Those few minutes can easily decide whether you kill the boss or not - and in that way screw potential cheevos like survivings. 

[yandcabral]

4 hours ago, imthespamman said:

Those few minutes can decide whether you get your timer or not. Those few minutes can easily decide whether you kill the boss or not - and in that way screw potential cheevos like survivings. 

PVE - wipe. respawn. try again.

PVP - you lose. you're out. wait in queue again.

[imthespamman]

1 hour ago, yandcabral said:

PVE - wipe. respawn. try again.

PVP - you lose. you're out. wait in queue again.

PVE - wipe. respawn. timer expires. swap characters. do the whole raid again from the start. 

[yandcabral]

9 hours ago, imthespamman said:

PVE - wipe. respawn. timer expires. swap characters. do the whole raid again from the start. 

wot?

[Alconos]

On 1/4/2023 at 9:30 PM, Weswhitebore said:

You seem to be the only one convinced of these lag exploits in more than 5 threads. I agree with Anyaka, this thread is about the lockout timers whichare particularly harsh towards dcs, not another platform for you to be annoyed about dsync issues and imaginary lag switches or exploits. 

Thank you Weswhitebore, you've provided a really insightful reply. Thank you so much.

[Nee-Elder]

One thing i agree with regarding this topic---or rather , one thing i think should def. be changed (by BioWare) is the  hover-mouse-cursor  onscreen MESSAGE  within the PVP queue ui  window,  after you get *lockout* , which reads:  "You have been locked from queue'ing because you either quit a match early or declined a queue" 

VERY  misleading & frustrating  sentence there, for anyone who just had bad  ISP luck and simply disconnected ( through no fault of their own ) .   Therefore, imho, BioWare should add a more accurate phrasing to that message.  ( like just add  "or disconnected" )

[Weswhitebore]

27 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

"You have been locked from queue'ing because you either quit a match early or declined a queue" 

Does it say quit a match or leave a match? The words quit and leave make all the difference.  Though if they wanted to, they could def add a system that can tell if it was intentional or not. Its just the matter of if they want to put in the work to do it or not.

[Nee-Elder]

27 minutes ago, Weswhitebore said:

Does it say quit a match or leave a match? The words quit and leave make all the difference. 

It says  "quit" .

( i made certain to type out the entire message exactly how it is in-game  ---Ugh if only these new forums would reenable embedded  SS's again.  )

*Now you're making me second guess my own  copy/paste typing lol  can anyone else verify  or am i gonna have to actually  quit a WZ real quick to screenshot it again?  ( i took a SS the 1st time, but for some reason it didn't save onto my hd ---happens sometimes with SWTOR, where the  'prnt scrn' button doesn't register after a while of being logged in )

Edited January 16, 2023 by Nee-Elder

[Weswhitebore]

12 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

*Now you're making me second guess my own  copy/paste typing lol  can anyone else verify  or am i gonna have to actually  quit a WZ real quick to screenshot it again? 

I just wanted verification cause I don't remember 🤣😅

[Achnaattwo]

12 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

It says  "quit" .

( i made certain to type out the entire message exactly how it is in-game  ---Ugh if only these new forums would reenable embedded  SS's again.  )

*Now you're making me second guess my own  copy/paste typing lol  can anyone else verify  or am i gonna have to actually  quit a WZ real quick to screenshot it again?  ( i took a SS the 1st time, but for some reason it didn't save onto my hd ---happens sometimes with SWTOR, where the  'prnt scrn' button doesn't register after a while of being logged in )

 

9 minutes ago, Weswhitebore said:

I just wanted verification cause I don't remember 🤣😅

😈 Do it  Do it 😈

[TyrFoge]

This comes up often. Very often. (even more so lately) There is even a completely different thread talking about the exact same thing. The question is how to punish rage quitters and not punish DCs. Its been said over and over that there really is no way for the game to tell the difference between a DC and a Alt+F4 not to mention if someone purposely disconnected their internet.  So either the devs allow rage quitting by causing no punishment or they punish everyone even those who legitimately DC. Simple.  Or is it?

On 1/12/2023 at 2:28 PM, Achnaattwo said:

while in Operation group, if someone disconnects, they still show in group, but disconnected ?  

What about this? Yes the game has a way of  keeping you active and disconnected. We've all experienced this in a FP or OPS. So why is this not the case for PvP? Well that answer is also simple and been said:

On 1/14/2023 at 7:22 AM, yandcabral said:

In pve, a team can afford a couple of minutes to see if the DCed player will come back, in pvp, they often do not. I saw a fair number of arenas turnabouts, when one of the teams lost one player and didn't get a replacement.

So what's the solution? What is it that players really want. Well they want it both ways. Punishment (Lock out timers) for rage quitters and no punishment (no lock out timers) for disconnects. Sounds pretty impossible/unreasonable. But what if it's not?

What if players instead of being kicked from a WZ for a disconnect so that the team can quickly (potentially) get a replacement they are "benched" yet remain in the WZ.  This way a player can come back into the WZ after the disconnect and the team can still get a replacement. In this way only players who actually "leave" get the lock out timers. I'm sure that players who legitimately disconnected would be perfectly happy to lose their ability to "finish" the WZ, participate, and be a figurative cheerleader on the sidelines even without getting credit if it meant they didn't get a 20min LO (or risk of subsequent LO lengths).  😏

[TrixxieTriss]

On 1/4/2023 at 9:58 AM, Alconos said:

Im all for the increased penalty, but maybe they should address the lag exploits in pvp first that cause players to freeze and be kicked for inactivity.

There are more people being affected by unfair lookouts due to DCing than there are people using Lag switching in PvP.

You also need to understand that Lag switching doesn’t disconnect you from the servers. So having lockouts for people DCing won’t prevent Lag Switching anyway. 

The Lockouts are only there to stop people rage quitting PvP with no penalty. Sadly, those are the people to blame for the Lockouts, not cheaters.

The servers can tell if you DC or just leave a match. So DCing shouldn’t incur a Lockout penalty.

[yandcabral]

3 hours ago, TyrFoge said:

What if players instead of being kicked from a WZ for a disconnect so that the team can quickly (potentially) get a replacement they are "benched" yet remain in the WZ.  This way a player can come back into the WZ after the disconnect and the team can still get a replacement. In this way only players who actually "leave" get the lock out timers. I'm sure that players who legitimately disconnected would be perfectly happy to lose their ability to "finish" the WZ, participate, and be a figurative cheerleader on the sidelines even without getting credit if it meant they didn't get a 20min LO (or risk of subsequent LO lengths).  😏

Players can't foresee when they will get DCed. If they cannot come back before the end of the match, they will get punished anyways.

As was also mentioned many times before, it would be better to address the issues aggravating the players. And while there's no solution in the horizon, that the players sort themselves out to avoid animosity.

[Crazykidddd]

The 15 min lockout to begin with is nonsensical and was pushed by pve tryhards.
The fact it affects players who get dc'd or kicked because of the 398479587495684759275238976 bugs this game has, and scales up to 6 hours is pure and utter insanity. whoever came up with this needs to be checked. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Crazykidddd

[TyrFoge]

16 hours ago, yandcabral said:

Players can't foresee when they will get DCed. If they cannot come back before the end of the match, they will get punished anyways.

As was also mentioned many times before, it would be better to address the issues aggravating the players. And while there's no solution in the horizon, that the players sort themselves out to avoid animosity.

I get that. That's not what I'm talking about. Players who have a long term and legit DC will barely even feel the 1st LO time in the first place if they weren't able to reconnect by WZ end and players who intentionally DC in order to not get marked as "left" will not want to wait the match time to log back in since that would be a self inflicted LO. Most of the time I get a DC my connections fine...internet fine...don't know why it happened in the first place and am able to re-log in immediately. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has experienced that. Those are the absolute most aggravating 20 min ever. The absolute worst is when you are just about to win.  When that happens it's a real kick in the head . My suggestion was only referring to those instances. Able to log back in before WZ is over? "Great! You're back! But you're on the bench. No hard feelings..."

Edited January 18, 2023 by TyrFoge

[Unterlord]

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/927279-pvp-bug-by-exit-war-zone/

PvP Bug by exit war zone
2-times I have come 60 minutes banned
Without ''Leave early''
I won PvP Game. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Unterlord

[Monterone]

On 1/17/2023 at 8:09 PM, Crazykidddd said:

The 15 min lockout to begin with is nonsensical and was pushed by pve tryhards.
The fact it affects players who get dc'd or kicked because of the 398479587495684759275238976 bugs this game has, and scales up to 6 hours is pure and utter insanity. whoever came up with this needs to be checked. 

I imagine there is a producer high up who is just a complete control freak and needs to rethink their career in game design. Game being the operational word here. It's meant to be fun.

And when you try to micro manage fun -- it somehow stops being fun.

In 30 years of online gaming, I've never seen 6 hour penalties for paying customers. Other than suspensions for behavior that against the TOS. But there is nothing in the TOS about leaving a match.

This is just someone's control freak behavior. And it's probably legally questionable. You can't suspend paying customers from playing when they broke no written TOS rules to begin with.

[DeannaVoyager]

11 hours ago, Monterone said:

In 30 years of online gaming, I've never seen 6 hour penalties for paying customers. Other than suspensions for behavior that against the TOS. But there is nothing in the TOS about leaving a match.

This is just someone's control freak behavior. And it's probably legally questionable. You can't suspend paying customers from playing when they broke no written TOS rules to begin with.

 

I would actually love to see 6 hour penalties for toxic behaviour. That would make sense. 👍

But yeah, banning people for 6 hrs just because they got disconnected or left match early,  doesn't seem justified.

[Monterone]

9 hours ago, DeannaVoyager said:

 

I would actually love to see 6 hour penalties for toxic behaviour. That would make sense. 👍

But yeah, banning people for 6 hrs just because they got disconnected or left match early,  doesn't seem justified.

I think 1 hour through 24 hour suspensions are long enough that they need a documented reason for doing a suspension. And I am calling this a suspension because an entire form of game play, which for some is the only form of play, is being blocked off from access. A player is suspended from playing certain parts of the MMO that they're paying for.

So I think suspension penalties for toxic behavior are already in. We just don't have any explanation why people are getting suspended for leaving matches or getting disconnected.

I challenge @JackieKo or any other authorized employee to copy and paste the section of the TOS where it says leaving matches or disconnecting will result in incremental suspensions, ranging from 1 hour to 6 hours.

Please, can you read through the TOS and show us customers where we agreed to this?

Thank you.

[AwesomeTacoCat]

Ultimately, if we could punish players for leaving then that’d be great. But we can’t disentangle leaving from DCing. Therefore there just shouldn’t be any punishment. Or maybe a compromise of 20 minutes per dc with no escalation. It’s really not that complicated not sure why devs are so incompetent on this. 

[Weswhitebore]

On 1/17/2023 at 8:11 AM, TrixxieTriss said:

Lag switching in PvP

Nobody so far has been able to prove this "lag switching" in PVP and only like 2 people are running around complaining about it/ digging up old graves.

 

I think one of the most major problems nobody is focusing on with these lockouts is the fact that it's the amount in less than 1 week that leads to 6 hours. It's not the number of leaves within 1 week, it's the number within less than 1 week, which actually opens you up to even worse punishment and likely 2x more punishment than 1 week. The exact number of days however is something Bioware is keeping close to the chest and a secret because of "exploits"

[TrixxieTriss]

1 minute ago, Weswhitebore said:

Nobody so far has been able to prove this "lag switching" in PVP and only like 2 people are running around complaining about it/ digging up old graves.

 

I think one of the most major problems nobody is focusing on with these lockouts is the fact that it's the amount in less than 1 week that leads to 6 hours. It's not the number of leaves within 1 week, it's the number within less than 1 week, which actually opens you up to even worse punishment and likely 2x more punishment than 1 week. The exact number of days however is something Bioware is keeping close to the chest and a secret because of "exploits"

The whole lockout situation stinks to be honest.

It was originally added to ranked to stop people exploiting ranked matchmaking.
Then they added an exponential time factor to it because Rank exploiters didn’t care if it was only 15mins

But it’s now being used to stop people rage quitting. Not to stop people exploiting the matchmaking.

These are totally different reasons from each other. There is no reason to still have the exponential time factor that increases because no one is exploiting anything. And certainly not one that locks for 6 hours 🤯. 

If BioWare actually addressed the main legitimate issues of why people rage quit instead of punishing people, this lockout timer probably wouldn’t be required.

1. Stop putting premades (especially 8 man premades) against solo pug teams. Give premades their own queue & let pug queue solo.

2. Give players the option to choose what maps they either want to play or at least a choice of ones they don’t want to play.

3. Fix the matchmaking 

4. Moderate pvp toxicity

Instead we have this big stick approach from BioWare that punishes anyone that leaves a match, which includes people who DC or have lag issues.

BioWare, please get rid of the lockout completely.
But if you feel you have to have one, at least remove it until you address those 4 points I mentioned & get rid of the exponential time factor.

Lockout actually discourages people from pvping or it encourages them to AFK till the match is over so they don’t get a lockout. 

Either way it’s not good & it’s not healthy for pvp if your intention is to grow the population, reduce toxicity & encourage a positive experience for the players. The Lockout is doing the opposite.