1 HOUR LOCKDOWN BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO WAIT TILL MY RAVAGE WAS OVER AND QUIT???

[Rubmon]

Hi Jakie,

Even though for most part I try to stay neutral in a given thread but, 6 hours time out for someone who decides not to run a given flashpoint or pvp x3 seem a bit to harsh. I have a feeling you may actually loose a lot of members (customers) over this. Over the years most long time members including myself have learn to deal with this issue, is really not a big issue as many may try to make you believe, why finish breaking something that is already half broken. What about those unfortunate ones who are having internet issues and DC, and don't get to log back on until the match is over, this happens from time to time to most of us. Are we being punish for having a bad internet service?. My intent is not to sound to negative in this subject, I just don't feel this is good customer service, when you are denying service to your paying customers for up to 6 hours at a time .  

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

1 hour ago, Rubmon said:

Hi Jakie,

Even though for most part I try to stay neutral in a given thread but, 6 hours time out for someone who decides not to run a given flashpoint or pvp x3 seem a bit to harsh. I have a feeling you may actually loose a lot of members (customers) over this. Over the years most long time members including myself have learn to deal with this issue, is really not a big issue as many may try to make you believe, why finish breaking something that is already half broken. What about those unfortunate ones who are having internet issues and DC, and don't get to log back on until the match is over, this happens from time to time to most of us. Are we being punish for having a bad internet service?. My intent is not to sound to negative in this subject, I just don't feel this is good customer service, when you are denying service to your paying customers for up to 6 hours at a time .  

Firstly, I think you are confused for a bit. PVP players are not customers. PVP is an F2P activity. All PVP players are therefore freeloaders, not paying customers.

 

Secondly, if you have bad internet connection, you should not play PVP. It is a team game that cannot be paused. If you lose network during a match, you are ruining the game for upto 15 other players. This is not a positive experience, which is the goal of 7.2. IMO 6 hours is not enough, as it would take longer for you to fix your internet connection. 

[sGroggy]

18 minutes ago, Mycroft-Tarkin said:

IMO 6 hours is not enough, as it would take longer for you to fix your internet connection. 

You think 6 hours is not enough to make clear to my wife not to pull the cable? Hm, you may be right...

[JackieKo]

23 hours ago, -Garmonbozia said:

What kind of time frame are we talking? If you don't mind me asking. Is this over the course of 24 hours? A week? 

This is one of those finer details that we are keeping close to home because some players will try to take advantage of that knowledge. However, I can confirm that it is less than a week.

 

18 hours ago, Bigfallenstar said:

I'm all for stopping toxicity, but I don't think a lockout timer is the way to go. You can't stop people from quitting. If they wanted to do that, maybe implement what Halo does and give them a warning if they leave too many warzones before giving them a lockout.

8 hours ago, Fraah said:

Something like 10 Minutes, 20 Minutes, 40 Minutes, 1 Hour, 6 Hours would be fine. 

7 hours ago, sGroggy said:

In principle I can understand the lockout duration increasing; after all if you know you're connection is unstable, don't queue again immediately so you don't screw over your team. However, something like 0, 5, 10 minutes would be sane. This, is insane.

7 hours ago, Pandoras_Jar said:

It's punishing enough having to wait 20 minutes after DCing through no fault of your own or getting stuck in the map and not being able to move then getting timed out cause you're stuck in spawn... (Rocket Out stuck bug thankfully hasn't happened to me for a while but still incredibly frustrating memories).

So please just leave it at 20 minutes across the board. I think that's reasonable for all parties. Deserters get punished and people who DC suffer a not too long but still annoying punishment.

6 hours ago, kaymedic said:

Like you said. I think a 20 minute lockout for leaving early (with an additional loss for this game which is new) is okay. Maybe 10 minutes would be okay as well. Or the old 15. I don't know. I normally do not leave matches early and if then it was my last for the day.

But i get why people are leaving. Had a match 5 against 8. Since you do not get medals easy anymore (which is also good) this was wasted 10 minutes nonetheless.

1hour and 6 hour is far too much. Sorry.

I understand the feelings that are being conveyed in this thread, but I also wanted to say that I appreciate the comments above as they are written. This is helpful and constructive feedback. Even if there is an expressed dislike for a feature/mechanic/system,  there are also additional and helpful suggestions outside of the dislike. Thank you for the feedback.  

 

 

 

[Lars_Ariva]

Good morning, Bioware.

I would like to be very constructive in my criticism of the changes made to the 4v4 and 8v8 PVP matches, elimination of ranked PVP, attempts to detoxify PVP, and the PVP season.

First a comment that is going to underly the much of my commentary:  the forced condensation of ranked players into the new system.  You have taken two very different groups of players and crammed them together in one queuing system.  Frequently, but not always, ranked players team up with other players with complementary skills.  This creates a VERY formidable team that lesser skilled players are going to find next to impossible to beath.  So, at the outset, if you are not on a team of highly skilled players that has been created to stand up another team of highly skilled players, you run the risk of being steamrolled.  

1.  4v4 and 8v8:  Great idea, but highly unbalanced at present because you have arena teams just destroying the other teams.  For people who might like PVP if they played on a competitive arena vs a hypercompetitive arena, this is just punishing, and not fun.  

2.  Elimination of ranked PVP:  With the loss of a meaningful way to compete against others, and the participation in a system that rewards and favors the aforementioned highly skilled players and teams, the good and average player is going to find the present season extremely unrewarding.  I expect that the highly skilled players will also find this unrewarding also.

3.  It is hard to detoxify PVP, period.  What I have witnessed is more matches with some player on a team becoming so frustrated with other players that they are getting very angry, and screaming at their teammates.  I have seen one match that I was in, and a PVP noob introduced himself and two players on the 8 person team demeaned him (or her) for even showing up.  And pinned the pending loss on them alone.  The profanities used were in the F-bomb category.  And, there is no instrument available to a player to push this up to Bioware for timely review.  (I am aware of votekick and the report player or ignore features....these are of limited use, and of limited effectiveness).

4.  The PVP season is going to be most rewarding to those players who queue in highly functional teams and who have the wherewithal to stick out the season.  For many of us, this is going to be a long, slow, slog.  

I do know that there will be someone who is going to say, play, get better!  Always good advice, but not always practical when the pee wee team takes on the professional team.  I have no problem with highly skilled players working on highly skilled teams, but I am already seeing that the present route has forced these teams into the same venues of lesser skilled players.   

I strongly suggest that Bioware re-evaluate, sooner than later, the current structure of PVP.  

[Deaconik]

Imagine implementing 0 balancing mechanisms because premades and then punishing those who quit You're pushing for the most diconnected from the playerbase award, right?

[JediMasterAlex]

12 minutes ago, JackieKo said:

I understand the feelings that are being conveyed in this thread, but I also wanted to say that I appreciate the comments above as they are written. This is helpful and constructive feedback. Even if there is an expressed dislike for a feature/mechanic/system,  there are also additional and helpful suggestions outside of the dislike. Thank you for the feedback.  

It's posts like these that make any praise for Jackie by others unfathomable to me.

It's just dripping with contempt for paying customers, and it's clearly targeted at all the pvpers that have had negative feedback about 7.2.

Just shameful, completely unprofessional behavior.

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

1 minute ago, JediMasterAlex said:

It's posts like these that make any praise for Jackie by others unfathomable to me.

It's just dripping with contempt for paying customers, and it's clearly targeted at all the pvpers that have had negative feedback about 7.2.

Just shameful, completely unprofessional behavior.

PVPers are not paying customers. PVP is F2P. PVP feedback is effectively "spam" at this point.

[Yettofall]

4 minutes ago, Mycroft-Tarkin said:

PVPers are not paying customers. PVP is F2P. PVP feedback is effectively "spam" at this point.

where do you get this ideia from?

I pay and i exclusively play pvp, i don't pve at all, i find it boring as hell!

[Deaconik]

6 minutes ago, Mycroft-Tarkin said:

PVPers are not paying customers. PVP is F2P. PVP feedback is effectively "spam" at this point.

Feedback on this site is from paying customers tho, so technically speaking you're wrong 😛

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

  

4 minutes ago, Deaconik said:

Feedback on this site is from paying customers tho, so technically speaking you're wrong 😛

Any PVP who is a subsciber is probably a Toxic Ranked Player. Regs players would not be here complaining, they are in game enjoying the new update. It is good that Bioware no longer listens to you toxic ranked players anymore.

 

4 minutes ago, Yettofall said:

where do you get this ideia from?

I pay and i exclusively play pvp, i don't pve at all, i find it boring as hell!

Common sense? There is no benefit to subscribing if you are a PVPer, unless you want those ex-Ranked rewards. Those rewards are useless anyway since anyone using those rewards clearly means they wintraded for them. 

[JowyyKazza]

I feel like what we are being told is, if you don’t like the changes, leave. Even if they say they’ll make changes based on player feedback, I also know they don’t often make changes based on player feedback. 
 

How are people going to take advantage of knowing when they may have a 6 hour lock out? That seems like vital information, like if you have a few hiccups in under a weeks time, your evening is now done, but hey thanks for subbing! 
 

Maybe 7.0 and it’s continuing updates is the NGE of swtor after all. 🤨

[Deaconik]

Just now, Mycroft-Tarkin said:

  

Any PVP who is a subsciber is probably a Toxic Ranked Player. Regs players would not be here complaining, they are in game enjoying the new update. It is good that Bioware no longer listens to you toxic ranked players anymore.

 

Common sense? There is no benefit to subscribing if you are a PVPer, unless you want those ex-Ranked rewards. Those rewards are useless anyway since anyone using those rewards clearly means they wintraded for them. 

True, didn't think about it properly and long enough. You're correct!

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

Just now, JowyyKazza said:

I feel like what we are being told is, if you don’t like the changes, leave. Even if they say they’ll make changes based on player feedback, I also know they don’t often make changes based on player feedback. 
 

How are people going to take advantage of knowing when they may have a 6 hour lock out? That seems like vital information, like if you have a few hiccups in under a weeks time, your evening is now done, but hey thanks for subbing! 
 

Maybe 7.0 and it’s continuing updates is the NGE of swtor after all. 🤨

If people have more information about how a system works, they can exploit said system. This is quite simple to understand. Without information, you do not have all the variables required to exploit a system. Why do you want to exploit the lockout? If you are playing normally without being toxic and quitting games, it should not matter to you anyway.

[Exly]

On 12/15/2022 at 11:11 AM, -Garmonbozia said:

What kind of time frame are we talking? If you don't mind me asking. Is this over4 hours? A week? 

 

26 minutes ago, JackieKo said:

This is one of those finer details that we are keeping close to home because some players will try to take advantage of that knowledge. However, I can confirm that it is less than a week.

 

I understand the feelings that are being conveyed in this thread, but I also wanted to say that I appreciate the comments above as they are written. This is helpful and constructive feedback. Even if there is an expressed dislike for a feature/mechanic/system,  there are also additional and helpful suggestions outside of the dislike. Thank you for the feedback.  

 

 

 

So, I guess that you are leaving it up to us to do some experimenting to find out the answer to this question. 

I would obviously prefer that you just tell, us, but if that's the way you want it then I guess I will oblige you.

[codydmaan]

32 minutes ago, JackieKo said:

This is one of those finer details that we are keeping close to home because some players will try to take advantage of that knowledge. However, I can confirm that it is less than a week.

 

I understand the feelings that are being conveyed in this thread, but I also wanted to say that I appreciate the comments above as they are written. This is helpful and constructive feedback. Even if there is an expressed dislike for a feature/mechanic/system,  there are also additional and helpful suggestions outside of the dislike. Thank you for the feedback.  

 

 

 

People get locked out even when they get disconnected. There's been a spike in server disconnects right before the update and after the update. If you get disconnected during a pvp match you can't re enter a match like other games allow you to do. Your immediately penalized for something you didn't do.

 

Thats highly imbalanced especially since the game isn't reliably stable.

 

If someone disconnects due to the games instability or internet issues allow them to re enter the match. If a player disconnects 2 times that day their whole play session is ruined. Because u say so. Since we all here are subscribers it's kinda sad to see friends who get dc and then we can't play anymore 😕. 

 

You continually see that in raids.

 

Also people are still dead in the raid frames after a wipe in raids. That bug hasn't been fixed. And in r4 seeing the vertical and horizontal growths you can't. After entering the room at kanoth you have to alt f4 restart the game for everyone to see. That's a really annoying bug as well.

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by codydmaan

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

4 minutes ago, codydmaan said:

People get locked out even when they get disconnected. There's been a spike in server disconnects right before the update and after the update. If you get disconnected during a pvp match you can't re enter a match like other games allow you to do. Your immediately penalized for something you didn't do.

 

Thats highly imbalanced especially since the game isn't reliably stable.

 

You continually see that in raids.

 

The game is not unstable. If there was an issue with the game server everyone would be getting kicked. However, that is not the case. If you are disconnecting then it is something you need to address instead of blaming Bioware for it. If disconnecting was "allowed" then people would intentionally unplug their router to skew their personal rating. It would be just like Ranked leaderboards which were 100% manipulated. The current system treats everyone equally and does not allow people to exploit their rating by intentionally disconnecting.

[DeannaVoyager]

34 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

It's posts like these that make any praise for Jackie by others unfathomable to me.

It's just dripping with contempt for paying customers, and it's clearly targeted at all the pvpers that have had negative feedback about 7.2.

Just shameful, completely unprofessional behavior.

It's called positive reinforcement. Something that a lot of pvpers should have used when playing with newbies instead of getting toxic and driving them away, then complaining how small the community is, and watch ranked being removed from the game. 

 

 

[JediMasterAlex]

3 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

It's called positive reinforcement. Something that a lot of pvpers should have used when playing with newbies instead of getting toxic and driving them away, then complaining how small the community is, and watch ranked being removed from the game. 

That's not what it is.

It's unambiguously thinly veiled criticism of all the feedback she doesn't consider "constructive." As if we're supposed to be working for Bioware and not the other way around. As I said, it's shameful and unprofessional.

[Nee-Elder]

20 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

 As if we're supposed to be working for Bioware and not the other way around.

The hidden truth about MMO's is:  We (community & developers) both "work" for eachother.

A practical  STAR WARS  'symbiote' .

22 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

. As I said, it's shameful and unprofessional.

Sorry  Alex, but i gotta disagree with you there.

imho, JackieKo  has proven to be one of the most professional and most prideful  BioWare  reps.

Especially considering  Devs barely EVER  post on these PVP forums to begin with.

I can understand why you personally didn't like her message, but i don't believe the problem (if there is one) lies with the messenger in this case.

[JackieKo]

On 12/15/2022 at 11:05 AM, JackieKo said:

The player experience should be as follows:

• Leaving 1 match = 20 minute lockdown
• Leaving 2 matches = 1 hour lockdown
• Leaving 3 matches = 6 hour lockdown

If this is not your experience and you are going through a 1 hour lockdown first, please confirm as that is a bug and we will have to look into that.

It's been reported that players are not receiving the 20 minute lockdown as a first offense and instead receiving the 1 hour lockdown. If anyone else has experienced this, please confirm that here or feel free to send me a PM. As always, character name, server, and even what queue, group composition, and map name would be helpful information. 

[sGroggy]

12 minutes ago, JackieKo said:

It's been reported that players are not receiving the 20 minute lockdown as a first offense and instead receiving the 1 hour lockdown. If anyone else has experienced this, please confirm that here or feel free to send me a PM. As always, character name, server, and even what queue, group composition, and map name would be helpful information. 

I can tell you how to solve this right now: set all three to 5 minutes. You're welcome.

[JediMasterAlex]

16 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

The hidden truth about MMO's is:  We (community & developers) both "work" for eachother.

Except we don't. We pay Bioware, end of story.

17 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

Sorry  Alex, but i gotta disagree with you there.

imho, JackieKo  has proven to be one of the most professional and most prideful  BioWare  reps.

Especially considering  Devs barely EVER  post on these PVP forums to begin with.

I can understand why you personally didn't like her message, but i don't believe the problem (if there is one) lies with the messenger in this case.

I disagree. All I've seen from Jackie since she's been here is her chastising paying customers. She believes her mandate is to make sure that everyone that posts on the forums is polite, positive, and happy. She couldn't care less about the content of feedback, only its form, because god forbid anyone ever says anything "toxic."

I have seen zero indication that she believes her role is to accurately relay feedback and help improve the game so that it's more satisfying for its customers. She just makes excuses for Bioware, with no apologies, and blames paying customers.

Now, is all that an improvement over Eric, who just straight up didn't post at all? Maybe, but that's not praiseworthy.

[JackieKo]

Hi all,

I'm asking that posts are kept on topic. Please contribute the conversation of the lockdown in this thread as I do not want it being derailed because I want to determine if there is a bug happening with this system.  And as I wrote in my initial post, "it is possible that these timers can be adjusted in the future based upon the feedback we see and the data that is collected off of player behavior" so I am asking that posts are kept on topic to consolidate feedback. 

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

29 minutes ago, JackieKo said:

It's been reported that players are not receiving the 20 minute lockdown as a first offense and instead receiving the 1 hour lockdown. If anyone else has experienced this, please confirm that here or feel free to send me a PM. As always, character name, server, and even what queue, group composition, and map name would be helpful information. 

Hi Jackie. People feel that way because they are used to exploiting the 20 mins lockout. It is so short that most people don't even notice it, which is why they feel that 1 hour is the base timer now.

It is working as intended, don't listen to exploiters.