You Can't Change Your Advanced Class!?!?!

[erei]

Why wouldn't Bioware let players change their advanced class..

You are mistaken. It's not really an advanced class, but a class in a whole. Different skillset, tree, and playstyle.

I can't be tank as a commando, while vanguard can. That's mean : different class, including 1/2 different role each.

 

And BTW, when a NPC tell you in big letters several time in a conversation, both written (with subtitle on) and voiced that you WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO CHANGE YOUR ADVANCED CLASS, trust him. He is probably not joking.

 

Anyway, 10lvl is nothing.

 

As has been explained a few times already, this is asking to change your advanced class. I understand there's a myth percolating that the advanced class is somehow a class, but the facts just don't hold that up.

If you start telling me the vanguard tank is the same class than healing commando, I'll start laughing. Or the sniper DPS and operative heal. Very different skill rotation, far different role, and feeling. So yeah, I'd say different class. Truth is, there is more in common between a sniper DPS and a BH DPS than between an operative healer and a sniper marksman.

Edited February 19, 2012 by erei

[Raansu]

lol people are still going on about this? Your advanced class is your main class, you made a choice, if you don't like it, re-roll. I don't see what is so hard to understand about this. It's no different than any other mmo where if you don't like a class then you have to make a new character and start from scratch.

 

Being able to switch your AC would completely break the game.

[subrosian]

1. AC switching mandates class stacking

Guilds that are raiding under 30 hours a week (aka most of us) benefit from class diversity. People gear up evenly, play a role they enjoy, and the individual strengths / weaknesses even out over the course of multiple fights. With AC switching, that goes the way of the dodo, and it becomes better to force your players to switch to the "ideal comp". With no gear or time barrier to doing so, the days of being able to enjoy "your spec" are gone, even from the casual crowd.

 

 

2. AC switching removes the advantage of specializing

The best-of-the-best generally enjoy a 10% ~ 15% performance advantage over good players of the same spec. However, the "ideal spec" on a fight can sometimes offer a similar advantage over the "less ideal" AC. Instead of letting that just balance out, groups will force AC switching, and this marginalizes the advantage of being an absolute expert at a given spec. It becomes more important to be good at all of your ACs than to specialize on one spec of one AC.

 

 

 

3. AC switching encourages FotM

The flavor of the month is generally not as powerful as people make it out to be... in fact many times it is *less impressive* than other classes. Raiders are generally protected from FotM by the gear and time requirements of forcing players to go X... but with AC switching enabled, there's nothing stopping a raid leader from "reworking things" based on the popular notion. The idea of "I rolled an Operative because I enjoy mDPS" is thrown out the window because the "popular notion" is that Operative DPS sucks.

 

 

4. AC switching removes the reward of having an alt

Enjoy leveling alts? Why bother, when AC switching trivializes the difference between classes. Currently, there's a great reward in leveling an alt in that you get to experience a play style that is often vastly different from your current toon. With AC switching, there's no joy in that, as you can experience a different play style just by AC switching.

 

 

5. AC switching shortcuts the end-game

As stated, AC switching is a shortcut to the end game. If you rolled and leveled as a DPS Sniper, there's suddenly nothing stopping you from jumping into a Healing Operative. Instead of leveling a new toon and experiencing more of the class before going into the end-game, that barrier is removed, and players enter at 50, with their existing gear, into specs and rolls they have zero experience with, or investment in using.

 

 

6. AC switching removes socialization

The class system in MMOs encourages you to go out and socialize. You can't do it alone, so if you're doing a raid and need a tank, you get forced to go out and find one. The variety of classes encourages you to go out and try to find players, and meet new people. When you're sitting around forming a Flashpoint group, instead of playing with the people you already know in your guild, you might need atank, or a healer, or a non-Willpower DPS, and you suddenly find a new player and potentially someone new that you play the game with.

 

Good or bad, that social experience is part of what drives an MMO. When your own AC is a one-stop-shop, it removes a great deal of social interaction from the game.

 

-

 

There are hundreds more reasons why AC switching is literally a nightmare scenario for any MMO, but I'll leave it there. Having 8 classes is a smart deal, they don't need to cut it down to four. The barrier to entry of having a different AC is a *good thing* for the game.

Edited February 19, 2012 by subrosian

[Toogeloo]

Guilds that are raiding under 30 hours a week (aka most of us) benefit from class diversity.

 

I just wanted to quote this one sentence because I just had to ask... what guild in this game could possibly be raiding more than 30 hours a week?

 

Even if you raided Normal and Hard/Nightmare on both Raids, I can't possibly see that taking more than a combined 15-20 hours. Was this just an extreme number you thought of?

 

 

I am in a pretty hardcore raiding guild, and as much as we want to raid 4 days a week, we found there was nothing to do after the first two nights.

[skaidar]

NO, for thousand time already!

[subrosian]

I just wanted to quote this one sentence because I just had to ask... what guild in this game could possibly be raiding more than 30 hours a week?

 

Even if you raided Normal and Hard/Nightmare on both Raids, I can't possibly see that taking more than a combined 15-20 hours. Was this just an extreme number you thought of?

 

 

I am in a pretty hardcore raiding guild, and as much as we want to raid 4 days a week, we found there was nothing to do after the first two nights.

 

In order to run multiple alts and class stack, funnel loot and generally do everything in their power to get a world first, the "most hardcore" guilds will run 3 ~ 4 alts deep. Take your typical 12 hour raid week, multiply by 3 ~4 alts, and you easily can see 36 ~ 48 hours of raiding.

 

There aren't any Nightmare modes in SWTOR that benefit from this kind of play, thankfully, and I hope there never will be... but if there were, the guilds looking to be world first would be using these kind of tactics. Class stacking is generally the result of abusing minor class imbalances to counteract fights that are intended to be done with more gear... so it won't emerge unless SWTOR raids become overtuned, as WoW raids are now built around being.

 

-

 

However, if AC swapping were enabled, it would be normal to make people change their AC for Nightmare modes, since it would potentially let you kill X boss with less gear. The problem with that becoming "the norm" is that it removes any sort of uniqueness to your character, your toon isn't "so-and-so the rage marauder stacking crit/power and focused on burst phases" it's now "so and so the Sith Warrior" - the end, everything else gets called by the raid leader as per whatever general opinion is on the forums that day.

 

-

 

But to answer your question, if competitive raiding became the norm in SWTOR, the best guild in the world would likely run 3+ raids in a week, fully clearing Normal and then Nightmare in both raids in order to get as many geared toons as possible.

Edited February 19, 2012 by subrosian

[Paxmendacium]

well no sh*t. That would be like saying, f being a warlock ima be a druid no *****es...

[Russkiier]

I find this discussion frustrating

 

First, the mistaken assumptions that more choice is A)harmless and B) wont effect those who choose not to use it

 

A)More choice is not neccesarily a good thing, switching AC's would reduce incentive to re-roll, and thus invest more time in the game. Now I am basing this off the fact people have a finite amount of time to play this game. Therefore if they only have 12 hours a week to play and Ops take 3 hours each you can only run 4 Ops a week. REGARDLESS of whether or not you can be a Tank/Dps/Healer, you can only play a certain amount of time. Dual AC would eliminate an incentive to reroll and spend leveling time to get to 50 and start raiding or endgame pvping or whatever people do at 50

 

B)an MMO is a closed system, everything everybody does effects others. Whether it is as simple as killing the mobs in an area, those mobs will not be available for another person to kill for a short time, thus affecting them. Dual AC will have a much greater change on the community because it will allow people to fulfill any role. Personally, I beleive that this will eliminate the SW/JK class because why would anyone want to play a game where they can only fulfill 2/3rd of the roles, then they would NEVER (exaggeration intended) get into groups. People who choose not to Dual AC will have a harder time finding groups because more people will be able to fill a finite amount of roles. This does not even take into account the difficultly players might encounter if they switched from the Melee DPS role to a ranger Healer role

 

 

And lastly, MeanMartian, I couldn't stomach reading your walls of text because after the first couple of lines you came off as a pretentious d-bag

 

I hope you have a nice day

[HrwAc]

hey, i am lvl 50 a long time ago..and i would like to know if advance class change will be available ? i dont want to roll from an operative to a mage.. but from a gunslinger to a scoundrel. its more easy i think. cause same gear and skills are shared.let me know if som1 is pretty sure.

[jbuschell]

I'm for dual speccing, but not for ac mulligans, I never knew a game that let you change classes

[hadoken]

This might just be the greatest troll thread on these forums. 47 pages, and the OP only made ONE post (might not even be a subscriber anymore).

[mindriot]

I've been playing the Imperial Agent for a few days now. At level 10, after much consideration, I decided to go operative over sniper because it seemed like a cool class that snuck around and then stabbed people. However, after awhile I decided that operative was much too slow and had pitiful damage output, so I just thought to myself "well I tried out operative and didn't like it, I should probably go sniper". That's when I found out that YOU CAN NEVER CHANGE YOUR ADVANCED CLASS. Why wouldn't Bioware let players change their advanced class. At this point I was level 18 and if I wanted to go sniper I would have to repeat about 3 days of work. I have loved this game so far, but this is the first major issue that I have run into. I hate myself for saying this, but WoW did it better.

 

Jesus why are ppl that play mmo's so freaking brain dead. Wow did it better? Wow didn't do it at all genius. Changing from sniper to op or visa versa is like getting to 30 with a hunter, and then saying ....I wanna be a rogue...whyz caynt iz ch4nge clazzez. Advance class is just that....a class. Once you branch off at lvl 10, your a sniper, not an agent. It's not a talent tree bro, its a class. Why do you ppl still bring this up. Mouth breathing.

[Toogeloo]

This might just be the greatest troll thread on these forums. 47 pages, and the OP only made ONE post (might not even be a subscriber anymore).

 

He found out he couldn't change his AC and cancelled his sub.

[Wrathoran]

lol

 

wow did it better... lol

 

in wow you dont have advancement class. In wow you can change point in your trees , just like Starwars.

 

What you are asking is like changing from a Rogue to a Hunter. Wich you cant in wow.

[enigmacypher]

That's why I say that they should change it so that people pick their class at level 1, even if the first 9 levels have the same skills. Then this sort of thing would not be an issue. EQ2 had this sort of leveling system at release, and it was eventually changed.

 

sadly i endorse this

 

first week someone was crying about not being able to rechoose AC

 

you start without a class and are learning what you shall become as a character and then choose whatever

 

you can get through all the basics in about 2 hours if you fast track through the story (though i prefer to choose different choices and now have 2 of each class and each 1 of each AC and that means 16 characters all told<ok yes i have no life but then when you can barely walk it is my right>)

 

 

sadly no one seems to accept this idea of choosing at 10th so i guess locking everyone at level 1 to a class makes more sense and less complaining

[gocybigt]

Im all for change your AC @ lv 20 after rolling a inq sorc i missed getting to use my lightsaber but after a while i started to really like being a ranged caster i mean who dosent like throwing bolts of lightning at ppl so in not being able to change i broadened my horizons also to all who say its like changing from <insert WoW class here> to <insert other generic RPG class here> i want you to insert foot into mouth and chew

[ZeroPlus]

I've posted this before in another thread, but I'll post it here as well.

 

Personally, I think that if the Advanced Class (AC) choice happened on the Character Creation screan people wouldn't be up in arms about not being able to change their AC.

 

Imagine this:

- You create a new character and choose your faction. For arguments sake, let's say you choose Republic.

- You then choose your "base" class. You choose the Trooper (for example).

***Currently, you would next choose your Species. What follows is what I imagine would be better.***

- You are now prompted to choose your AC. Since you chose Trooper, you would have 2 buttons to choose between Commando and Vanguard. As you clicked on either button, you would see a panel appear with a description of that AC and information letting you know that at level 10 you will be able to advance in that class. You would also see the characters on screen animate with AC specific animations and weapons as you clicked on each button. So, when you click on Commando you would see the characters wielding Blaster Cannons and laying down fire and healing; when you click on Vanguard you would see them wielding a Blaster Rifle and shooting and see the Shield animation kicking in.

- Once the AC was chosen, the character creation would proceed as it does now.

 

It would also be helpfull if once you reach level 10 and go to the trainer, there only be one tab with abilities and that its name reflected your AC (instead of having 2 tabs, one for the base class and one for the AC).

 

This would go a long way to cementing in peoples minds that what they chose is the AC and not the base class.

 

Unfortunately, I don't see this ever happening. It would entail too much work to change the way the Character Screen works as well as creating the necessary animations. Not to mention the aditional work of changing the current training UI. A pity they didn't decide to do it this way during development.

 

As it stands, it is perfectly understandable that people view their "class" as being a Trooper/Smuggler/etc., because that is what they "chose" when they created the character. The AC is viewed as being "just" a specialization they chose later on. This is further reinforced by seeing a "base class" and a "AC" tab on the training UI.

 

Since this is a game that is constantly being updated and changed it is also perfectly understandable that people feel they should be able to request that it be possible to change their minds about their AC, or switch between the two, without having to create a whole new toon.

 

In essence, if the AC choice happened at Character Creation time, people would not be thinking that it was reasonable to be able to switch between ACs.

[Meekx]

how is this still an issue?

[teambff]

it's a terrible system, what they should've done is worked it into the story where at the end of act 1 you choose your advanced class, so up to the end of act 1 you can try anything and everything out then at the act 1 story end there would be the choice you make for good.. that would give you proper time to try everything and make an educated choice. Edited March 24, 2012 by teambff

[Drakeye]

The problem is you have no idea how the advanced class is going to turn out. I got level 18 on my Agent, as Sniper, and then I realized I don't really like sniper all that much. I don't want to have to get all the way back to level 18 as operative. Sniper doesn't do the damage output I expected, and has pathetic range compared to what it should have(I think sniper should have 200 yard range, not the same as smuggler)

[AzKnc]

Make appeals about it and wait for bw to see reason and change the current idiotic system, while you stick to your char.

 

Make appeals about it and wait for bw to see reason and change the current idiotic system, while you roll another char.

 

Quit the game, making sure you mention this flawed systems as one of the reasons that drove you away.

 

Those are your only options for now, and the last one sends the strongest message, that's what i and everyone i know did.

Edited March 26, 2012 by AzKnc

[Veriu]

The Knight classes aren't massively different, both are melee one is a tank the other is pure DPS.

 

It's actually much more different for the Sith Warrior/Jedi Knight than for the other base classes, as their two AC's use different armor.

 

Guardian wears heavy armor. Sentinel wears medium.....so, if AC switching were allowed, and a guardian switched to a sentinel, he couldn't wear any of his old armor.

[Veriu]

As has been explained a few times already, this is asking to change your advanced class. I understand there's a myth percolating that the advanced class is somehow a class, but the facts just don't hold that up.

 

Actually, there is...it's called dev interviews during beta.

 

They wanted there to be 8 classes on each side. But, that meant 16 different class stories, which would cause the game to be HUGE (just under double the size it is now). So, they consolidated the class stories.

 

There was even a dev post during beta, saying that they were thinking about changing the AC's to just "classes" & the classes to "archetypes." But it never got changed.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Veriu

[ScottHK]

I've been playing the Imperial Agent for a few days now. At level 10,

 

Sorry, from reading your post, that's all I got from it...

[FallenX]

Really?

 

Wow let you change from a lvl 18 warrior to a lvl 18 paladin?

 

Pretty sure you couldn't do that in WoW, so I'm not sure why you'd make a statement like this, because that's what you are asking to do.

 

lol thankyou. WoW did nothing of the sort...AC is a class not a spec..WoW never let people change from a shaman to druid. Have no idea what the OP is talking about.