Powertechs aren't OP

[RaugMoss]

People say a class is OP, all the defenders say that they should post logs.

 

Some1 post logs, you say we dont have utility, defense, blablablabla.

 

There is absolutely no point in posting to the forums. Let the kids play OP classes, and while the BM items are RIDICULUSLY easy to gear, save yourself the trouble, play multiple classes to be able to withstand the RIDICULOUS nerfs that some classes have got/will get with patches.

 

Biochem OP posts, don't make me laugh. Only marauders, juggernauts and powertechs can kill people in under 10 seconds with Biochem adrenals and buffs. If Biochem is so OP, how come a sorcerer or an arsenal merc cannot kill you in under EVEN 15 seconds??? There's definitely something wrong here isn't it???

[Balor]

People say a class is OP, all the defenders say that they should post logs.

 

Some1 post logs, you say we dont have utility, defense, blablablabla.

 

There is absolutely no point in posting to the forums. Let the kids play OP classes, and while the BM items are RIDICULUSLY easy to gear, save yourself the trouble, play multiple classes to be able to withstand the RIDICULOUS nerfs that some classes have got/will get with patches.

 

Biochem OP posts, don't make me laugh. Only marauders, juggernauts and powertechs can kill people in under 10 seconds with Biochem adrenals and buffs. If Biochem is so OP, how come a sorcerer or an arsenal merc cannot kill you in under EVEN 15 seconds??? There's definitely something wrong here isn't it???

 

Noone has posted unedited logs, or logs that wasn't from 1 (ONE) fight.

Biochem, with or without, any class can kill you in under 10 seconds if :::

 

 

YOU DO NOT TARGET AND ATTACK THEM / DO NOT RECEIVE HEALS

 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2012 by Balor

[Newsinz]

FFS EVERYONE's OP. STOP already. Just because you get your *** handed to you by a better player doesn't mean their OP. I hear a lot of complaining in Warzones about such and such is OP... You look at that persons gear they are in recruit fighting someone in War Hero's or Battle Masters... Of course they Crit for 4000 against you.. your gear is a bit outdated.

 

Do I think some classes need a tune up? Sure, does it mean they are OP? No, there is obvious balance issues between classes but after research etc etc Expertise is the major issue. I think Stuns, Knock Backs and interrupts are a bit crazy in this game though. It would be nice if they gave people a resist chance/ or some sort of relic that would allow you to break from being rooted. But in the long wrong its not that bad.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Newsinz

[RaugMoss]

Noone has posted unedited logs, or logs that wasn't from 1 (ONE) fight.

Biochem, with or without, any class can kill you in under 10 seconds if :::

 

 

YOU DO NOT TARGET AND ATTACK THEM / DO NOT RECEIVE HEALS

 

 

 

A fully geared raiding sorcerer, hits an unmitigating boss for a maximum of 1500 dps in the relic+adrenal burst session (assuming half campaign/half rakata). Since the pvp gear is a bit underpowered (half war hero/half battlemaster), scale it down to 1400 dps (I'm being generous).

10x1400 = 14000. No one who's equipped in even only full BM has 14k HP.

 

If you don't know the game, then don't talk. Its even NOT theoretically possible, mr troll.

[Balor]

A fully geared raiding sorcerer, hits an unmitigating boss for a maximum of 1500 dps in the relic+adrenal burst session (assuming half campaign/half rakata). Since the pvp gear is a bit underpowered (half war hero/half battlemaster), scale it down to 1400 dps (I'm being generous).

10x1400 = 14000. No one who's equipped in even only full BM has 14k HP.

 

If you don't know the game, then don't talk. Its even NOT theoretically possible, mr troll.

 

just because you're horribad, doesn't mean everyone else is

(you also forgot to add expertise into your calculations)

Edited May 12, 2012 by Balor

[LoKiei]

OP must have never fought a marauder or tanksin.

 

Also PT has poor defenses and almost no self heal.

Edited May 12, 2012 by LoKiei

[fungihoujo]

Makes sense that a heavily armoured class with taunts should be able to do more single target damage in 6 seconds than a light armoured, squishy class with zero defensive CDs can do in half a minute.

 

Makes sense right? Makes sense to me- I mean, why wouldn't you want someone who has one ability that crits over 2k? I'd much rather have that then someone who can do 4 4-6k crits in a row.

[Jarfunkz]

People say a class is OP, all the defenders say that they should post logs.

 

Some1 post logs, you say we dont have utility, defense, blablablabla.

 

There is absolutely no point in posting to the forums. Let the kids play OP classes, and while the BM items are RIDICULUSLY easy to gear, save yourself the trouble, play multiple classes to be able to withstand the RIDICULOUS nerfs that some classes have got/will get with patches.

 

Biochem OP posts, don't make me laugh. Only marauders, juggernauts and powertechs As well as sins, mercs, operatives, sniperscan kill people in under 10 seconds with Biochem adrenals and buffs. If Biochem is so OP, how come a sorcerer or an arsenal merc cannot kill you in under EVEN 15 seconds??? There's definitely something wrong here isn't it???

 

I fixed it for you...

[Lhaim]

if he did 24.8k dmg to you in 10 seconds, im guessing you stood there for 10 seconds for him to hit you.

 

If hes pyro spec hes got 0 gap closers except for a 45 second cooldown harpoon which does not work if you have resolve and does put some resolve on you. If he gets close just use force slow and force speed way, dot him up and chuck out some damage. When he gets closer follow with a force stun, reapply dots and run away a bit more and reapply force slow off cooldown.

 

He still hasnt caught you and has barely managed to break your shield with his ranged attacks, continue to pummel him. As he gets close force wave/overload and reapply force slow, run behind a pillar and chuck a heal on yourself if needed. then kill him.

 

and there you have a dead pyro PT who didnt get to do any damage and got *****.

 

And yes i have both a lvl 50 vanguard and a lvl 50 sage in fact i have a lvl 50 sorc from US servers and i remade a lvl 50 sage on oceanic servers. i have found with vanguard the people who fight me best are the ones who keep me away from them, as i have to be in melee to do my burst and 10m to do any kind of decent dps.

 

Im BM rank on 3 chars and war hero on my vanguard so i have a little pvp experience.

 

Only the bads dont get ignored, but ill try to help and requote...2nd chance!

[Jarfunkz]

Makes sense that a heavily armoured class with taunts should be able to do more single target damage in 6 seconds than a light armoured, squishy class with zero defensive CDs can do in half a minute.

 

Makes sense right? Makes sense to me- I mean, why wouldn't you want someone who has one ability that crits over 2k? I'd much rather have that then someone who can do 4 4-6k crits in a row.

 

I don't think you are playing that class correctly, smart sages still can heal very well and do considerable damage... Not to mention can pull, knockback, cc, snare, heal, cast shields, sprint, remove dots, etc. Clearly you are playing to statistics of the matches and not to the wins/losses. We have a term for you, you are a FANTASY PVPER.

[durvas]

You don't think they are ranged? = LOL #1

You don't think they are mobile? = LOL #2

You think heavy armor adds a lot = LOL #3

You think PT/VGs have abilities in their rotation that requires still casting = LOL #4

 

 

I could go on and on, but really you need to take a step back from the forums, maybe learn what class you are talking about ffs..... this is just pitiful. Since you OBVIOUSLY do not play the class, either roll one, or at least jump on http://www.torhead.com and do some research before jumping into a thread about a class you know NOTHING about and acting like you have some doctorate on the subject

 

 

You can keep coming in here claiming that you are okay with some nerf to this but keep everything else the same or add a little more survivability but nerf burst, but don't play the class and don't know how that would break the spec. Besides, it isn't going to get nerfed, hate to burst the bubble here yet again, it really isn't. Because, now here is the kicker, it isn't (key work isn't) overpowered. If that can be proven in something like a thread, obviously there isn't even a need for BW to look at metrics

 

Putting words in my mouth to make a strawman argument does not make a point. I have a vanguard, I know the mechanics. You're taking stuff completely out of context and creating something that simply isn't there to argue against. I can't tell if you're a troll or really just that stupid and failed every reading comprehension test you've ever taken.

Edited May 13, 2012 by durvas

[Balor]

Putting words in my mouth to make a strawman argument does not help your point. I have a vanguard, I know the mechanics. You're taking stuff completely out of context and creating something that simply isn't there to argue against. I can't tell if you're a troll or really just that stupid and failed every reading comprehension test you've ever taken.

 

Didn't put any words in your mouth, learn to read what you write perhaps?

As for knowing the mechanics, obviously not.

[fungihoujo]

I don't think you are playing that class correctly, smart sages still can heal very well and do considerable damage... Not to mention can pull, knockback, cc, snare, heal, cast shields, sprint, remove dots, etc. Clearly you are playing to statistics of the matches and not to the wins/losses. We have a term for you, you are a FANTASY PVPER.

 

You must not be playing correctly if you're letting dps sorcs get off 3 second DIs.

 

I can list the things a marauder can do to- stun, aoe mez, root, leap, high dots damage, self heal, raid buff speed, stealth, immunity to damage, accuracy debuff, deflection CD, damage reduction CD which you can technically keep up 100% of the time, huge non-dot damage, two instant snares one of which lasts twice as long as the sorc snare does and has no CD unlike the sorc one- all while moving- at upwards of 15% bonus to speed at all times, plus temp buffs.

 

Much longer than the one line you could get out of a sorc.

 

Sure, sorcs can do a few things- but the song 'anything you can do, I can do better' comes into mind when I compare any class to a sorc.

 

Can I run circles around most enemies as a sorc? Well, duh- most players are terrible. I can run circles around people as every class in the game I've played- and chances are when I get around to trying out operatives, shadows and commandos, I'll do the same as them too.... but, I can do that while killing people twice as fast on my PT- or twice as fast, for twice as long, while having a defensive get out of jail free card for every scenario as a marauder.

 

Until you've actually played multiple classes at max level, you don't get to see just how rediculous classes like the marauder and to a degree PT are.

 

That said- mara beats PT, far more CC, utility, defensive CDs- far more constant burst damage- the only thing a PT has over a mara is they do get more burst in a burst spree- but, that doesn't last long, and marauders can get their burst sprees up much faster- on top of all the other bonuses.

 

Still- PT is better than several other classes regardless.

[SajPl]

Makes sense that a heavily armoured class with taunts should be able to do more single target damage in 6 seconds than a light armoured, squishy class with zero defensive CDs can do in half a minute.

 

Makes sense right? Makes sense to me- I mean, why wouldn't you want someone who has one ability that crits over 2k? I'd much rather have that then someone who can do 4 4-6k crits in a row.

 

If you had any idea about this game you would know that heavy/light armor means nothing without the tank "stance" so a light armor tanksin is WAY more durable than a pyro because a pyro is not a tank, but you are bad you do not need to know that.

[Jarfunkz]

You must not be playing correctly if you're letting dps sorcs get off 3 second DIs.

 

I can list the things a marauder can do to- stun, aoe mez, root, leap, high dots damage, self heal, raid buff speed, stealth, immunity to damage, accuracy debuff, deflection CD, damage reduction CD which you can technically keep up 100% of the time, huge non-dot damage, two instant snares one of which lasts twice as long as the sorc snare does and has no CD unlike the sorc one- all while moving- at upwards of 15% bonus to speed at all times, plus temp buffs.

 

Much longer than the one line you could get out of a sorc.

 

Sure, sorcs can do a few things- but the song 'anything you can do, I can do better' comes into mind when I compare any class to a sorc.

 

Can I run circles around most enemies as a sorc? Well, duh- most players are terrible. I can run circles around people as every class in the game I've played- and chances are when I get around to trying out operatives, shadows and commandos, I'll do the same as them too.... but, I can do that while killing people twice as fast on my PT- or twice as fast, for twice as long, while having a defensive get out of jail free card for every scenario as a marauder.

 

Until you've actually played multiple classes at max level, you don't get to see just how rediculous classes like the marauder and to a degree PT are.

 

That said- mara beats PT, far more CC, utility, defensive CDs- far more constant burst damage- the only thing a PT has over a mara is they do get more burst in a burst spree- but, that doesn't last long, and marauders can get their burst sprees up much faster- on top of all the other bonuses.

 

Still- PT is better than several other classes regardless.

 

I will one up you... Until you have actually pvp'd well in your life, don't come to the pvp forums and say things are too hard because you lack the skill and awareness of what needs to be done in order to win or put yourself in the best position to be successful. Understand... FANTASY PVPER

 

You have multiple tools to kite, I suggest you use them before complaining.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Jarfunkz

[Payneintherear]

just because you're horribad, doesn't mean everyone else is

(you also forgot to add expertise into your calculations)

 

Congratulations for inventing a word like "horribad" and then give an example of what it means straight away (like assuming Expertise will affect the calculation when the opponent is equally geared. You understand the game well).

[Balor]

Congratulations for inventing a word like "horribad" and then give an example of what it means straight away (like assuming Expertise will affect the calculation when the opponent is equally geared. You understand the game well).

 

Welcome to 1.2. You just made yourself look even more dumb.

[Shredbull]

All classes are fairly well balanced right now and anyone who disagrees has a L2P issue.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but any pure DPS class can pull those numbers with adrenals, and most other classes are good at healing / tanking really well.

 

Trying to kill a 22k hp PvP geared tanksin is a pain in the *** and impossible for any PT.

 

Same with well geared snipers and healing operatives. Oh don't forget marauders with their vanish and 99% dmg reduction skills.

 

I'm sorry but a class having the POTENTIAL to burst high doesn't mean it should be nerfed. Just because noone plays operative or sniper anymore doesn't mean they're bad, in fact, snipers and operatives can still down anyone in 10 seconds or less.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Shredbull

[fungihoujo]

If you had any idea about this game you would know that heavy/light armor means nothing without the tank "stance" so a light armor tanksin is WAY more durable than a pyro because a pyro is not a tank, but you are bad you do not need to know that.

 

I was referring to sorcs obviously- I'd think that would be pretty clear when I said light armour with no defensive CDs- seeing as sins have defensive CDs.

 

Do you even think before you type?

[fungihoujo]

I will one up you... Until you have actually pvp'd well in your life, don't come to the pvp forums and say things are too hard because you lack the skill and awareness of what needs to be done in order to win or put yourself in the best position to be successful. Understand... FANTASY PVPER

 

You have multiple tools to kite, I suggest you use them before complaining.

 

Ironic that you make that suggestion yet refuse to follow it yourself- you have yet to make a single logical rebuttal- and instead keep coming back to this 'fantasy pvper' phrase of yours. What, are you hoping that'll catch as the next 'l2p' or 'carebear baddie'?

 

You know for you to one up me you'd actually have to say one thing to prove what I've said is incorrect. And yes, when I'm on my marauder, I do have multiple tools to kite and anti kite- all of which are better, shorter CD, and more reliable than anything you might have- and I do a very good job kiting/anti kiting as a marauder- hence the entire- I kill everything without effort thing.

[kaya]

and you're missing the point about the point made by you. You acted like they can constantly re apply the DoT, like they have infinite resources. So in fact dispell IS A COUNTER!!! Pyro is the MOST resource (heat/ammo) starved spec IN THE GAME, therefore dispell is an even bigger COUNTER to pyro then ANY other spec in game. Period.

 

 

Another reason why you won't see Pyro nerfed is because, ask anyone that does the real end game PVE, ALL specs of Powertech and Vanguard are at the bottom of the barrel in ALL categories

 

Again your missing the point - your dot has no cd, dispel does. Your resources are irrelevant you can regen from empty to full in, what?, 10 secs?

If i dispell a scoundrel snare its gone for 12 secs. If i dispel a sentinels Overload Saber i dont have to deal with it again for 12 secs. If i dispel mind crush its gone for 15 secs etc etc etc - THESE are counters.

If i dispel a Pyro dot / snare (I despise your snare), its reapplied a global later and i eat 5k damage from rail shot quickly followed by your sticky grenade thing and i say goodbye to half of my health, another dps so much as looks at me in that 2 global space of time i die, you regen your resource and i sit in the ress zone for 20 secs.

 

Lets say for arguments sake that its a group fight and your stuck auto attacking for a couple of globals to regen resources. It costs you a few secs during which you can carry a huttball, pull a ball carrier into a fire, cap a node, defuse a bomb or interrupt a cap.

Being resource starved for a few secs doesn't justify being able to kill someone as quickly as a pyro can.

 

And scoundrel is worse in pve and has been nerfed twice despite that.

[Balor]

Again your missing the point - your dot has no cd, dispel does. Your resources are irrelevant you can regen from empty to full in, what?, 10 secs?

If i dispell a scoundrel snare its gone for 12 secs. If i dispel a sentinels Overload Saber i dont have to deal with it again for 12 secs. If i dispel mind crush its gone for 15 secs etc etc etc - THESE are counters.

If i dispel a Pyro dot / snare (I despise your snare), its reapplied a global later and i eat 5k damage from rail shot quickly followed by your sticky grenade thing and i say goodbye to half of my health, another dps so much as looks at me in that 2 global space of time i die, you regen your resource and i sit in the ress zone for 20 secs.

 

Lets say for arguments sake that its a group fight and your stuck auto attacking for a couple of globals to regen resources. It costs you a few secs during which you can carry a huttball, pull a ball carrier into a fire, cap a node, defuse a bomb or interrupt a cap.

Being resource starved for a few secs doesn't justify being able to kill someone as quickly as a pyro can.

 

And scoundrel is worse in pve and has been nerfed twice despite that.

 

Takes longer then that to regen if we have to reapply the DoT. If you think your dispel has that long of a CD you obviously don't even play.

 

Ravage allowed to go full duration will take more then 1/2 your heatlh. That is technically less time.

Deception assassin critting shock and discharge will take 1/2 your health.

Operative critting Hidden strike and Backstab and shiv will probably take 1/2 your health

Sniper critting explosive prob and ambush will take half your health (even more since follow thru is insta)

Merc casting 3 TMs and a Heat seeker will take half your health. Especially if HS crits.

so it's not okay for a Powertech taking half your health when critting Thermal det and Railshot? (there had to be a DoT on to use railshot so you already forgot 1 damaging ability you were already hit with)

 

Need I go on??

 

Learn

2

Play

Edited May 13, 2012 by Balor

[Jarfunkz]

Ironic that you make that suggestion yet refuse to follow it yourself- you have yet to make a single logical rebuttal- and instead keep coming back to this 'fantasy pvper' phrase of yours. What, are you hoping that'll catch as the next 'l2p' or 'carebear baddie'?

 

You know for you to one up me you'd actually have to say one thing to prove what I've said is incorrect. And yes, when I'm on my marauder, I do have multiple tools to kite and anti kite- all of which are better, shorter CD, and more reliable than anything you might have- and I do a very good job kiting/anti kiting as a marauder- hence the entire- I kill everything without effort thing.

 

You should read all my posts. I assumed you did, my fault.

 

Kiting A Pyro:

Sorc has a knockback, sorc has speed, snares, cc, bubble... These are great for kiting. Kiting is a weakness for pyrotechs because they have no gap closers besides pull/snare/cc all of which you have a counter. I will admit, that you will be blindsided by a pyro and chances are when that happens, you will die.

 

I am going to assume you know nothing about powertech, other than that they kill you quite easily. So I will be using lamen's terms, both so you can understand and to demean you.

 

A Pyro is a charging beast that tends to start outside and move in. On the outside, a good one will toss TD, IM, and rail. A Pyro CAN NOT reactive rail outside of 10m. So what are they going to do? autofire (minimal damage) or unload, this is an active cast that you need to stand still and will deter you from getting on top of your opponent. Two options, throw out ranged cc or pull you.

Ranged CC I would break this immediately, because their other cc which is a close range (what you are avoiding) is only 2.5 seconds. So break it, dispel(get rid of the dot), throw a shield on yourself, snare/cc him (especially early on because the majority of the pyrotechs will try and blow their load and avoiding their powerups is a good idea for your survival. Then stay out of that 10 meter range. If he puts another dot on you... CC him again or hopefully dispel is back.

 

If he pulls you, you knock him back and snare/cc him. Again, play on your terms and your strengths vs his weaknesses, this is the key to success of all video games. start tossing some project and dots... he needs to be taking damage as you are kiting him. The best way to kill others is not to be damaged or limit your damage taken while they are taking damage. You see it is a lot like sports, the more damage he takes and the less you take makes you win. It is like you are playing defense against his offense and still scoring. If you score more than your opponent, you will win... unless it is a nonskins golf game.

 

Why would one use dispel? Well, eliminating your dot will render his railshot significantly less useful. The railshot is a large source of his damage and it also gives him more action back. This has been stated repeatedly in this thread. Because they are so action dependent, putting another dot on you will take away another 1/4 of his action and the more action they use, the greater the time for them to get it back. A low action vanguard is a spectator at best.

 

Feel free to use what ever rotation you use while doing my suggestion. See, getting trolled can be educational FANTASY PVPER.

[TirjacShiki]

 

I am going to assume you know nothing about powertech, other than that they kill you quite easily. So I will be using lamen's terms, both so you can understand and to demean you.

 

This is one of the greatest things i have ever read on these forums. LOL I also agree with your post.

 

People just need to understand the weaknesses, of any class. Powertechs have a lot of weaknesses, when people ask me how to counter me, i usually respond with "kill us". Which is pretty easy to do.

 

Everyone is asking for some sort of defense or protection that is un-counterable. There is no way that is going to happen. No matter what you do or how you play, there is a counter to it, those that figure it out are OP, those that don't are doomed to die over and over again.

Edited May 13, 2012 by TirjacShiki

[Synxos]

Powertechs are OP.