You can be knocked back with Shroud.

What you need to understand here is that when Boarg says that he has parsed his average damage and that 27% of his total average damage is contributed by internal damage attacks, that the very reason for actually making up 27% of his total damage is the fact that they deal internal damage and are, on average, mitigated quite a bit less than kinetic attacks. Infiltration does not have access to more internal damage abilities than other dps specs, in fact. Yet it has very, very limited armor penetration.

You probably could do that in the lower level bracket on your sniper. People also wear different gear in the lower brackets and they have half the HPs of what that PT deals to the Sorc, before the Sorc dies. No other class could ever dish out that kind of damage.

Go dig up logs of people doing the same. Start with a Sage, perhaps. You can use Force Potency and get 3 guaranteed crits (almost anyway). Should be easy, right?

I can repost the log from above, in case you missed it. I can give you pointers on how to add the numbers up in such a log in order to get to the end result. Just let me know, I don't want to spoil it or rush you. Take all the time you need.

I got an idea. How about you prove that.

Weak, sad and pathetic compared to how you were acting two pages ago, when it almost looked like you were trying to have a reasonable argument.

All you have to do is prove it now. It's a silly concept, I know. All that work you put in, all that talk, energy and deceit and yet you are expected to bother with proof of your claims. Anyway, let's just get it over with, post it and show how every class can get within 5% of doing 25k damage in 10s against another guy in War-Hero gear. You can surely do that, can't you?

If every class can do that, then how about you put your money where your mouth is and show it. After all you asked people to quantify the problem and claimed the following: So, it's your turn to show how every class can get with 5% of doing 25k damage in 9s. Preferably without armor debuffs, since you were so awfully bold about it.

Your point?

People get 500 damage bonus unbuffed nowadays. Just saying.

Best post ever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_Prp615mmDk

Assuming a dps geared assassin runs around with 18k HPs (this is a lot for a dps geared tank), the healing from Force Lightning would be 2160 HPs. It may delay death and make you beat somebody in a 1 on 1, but the only thing it'd be outhealing is a healing spec'ed Sage, perhaps.

He's more like playing with a tinfoil hat and he's not alone with that "setup". 2 Marauders vs. 1 Shadow? Killing 4 people? What are you guys fighting? Afkers?

Dude, can you stop spreading misinformation? Yellow damage does NOT check vs. resists in this game. Yellow damage merely means it's a force or tech attack, which are mitigated by either armor or resists based on their damage type. The vast majority of all yellow damage abilities checks vs. armor. Having a net +/- force is not a worst case scenario, it's the reality of any sustained damage model. Blackout and Vanish are utility abilities with long cooldowns, which happen to have force regeneration attached to it. This means that they may or may not be available every 60 and 120s respectively. They also only increase your regeneration by 50% for those 6s, which, following above model, means 1 Project every 4s instead of 6s for the duration. So, for a net +/- 0 force damage sequence you have Project x1, followed by Saber Strike x3 and Project x1, Clairvoyant Strike x1, Saber Strike x2 during Shadow's Respite. I don't know any other class with such ridiculously low sustained damage. We are talking 3/4th of your abilities being your basic attack outside of dps cooldowns on a 60 and 120s CD.

Perhaps that's because you can't in fact get Induction without Surging Charge... Surging charge has been a requirement for Induction for a long time.

Yes, they do.

1. You are including avoidance into your mitigation figures. That's very misleading, even though mathematically correct, as long as you point out that you will translate your evasion into a 100% mitigation variable (practically this approach is not ideal, as 99% avoidance is worth nothing, if you can get 1 shot, but that's another story) 2. While I can live with the fact that you included evasion figures into your mitigation projection, you are using the shield mitigation and evasion additively, which is not correct. You can not shield an evaded attack and then go through armor mitigation. The correct math would look like this: 0.6377 * 0.4476 = .28543452 (expected mitigation from shield) 1 - 0.28543452 = 0.71456548 (expected mitigation after shield) 1 - 0.4333 = 0.5667 (expected percent of damage retained after armor) 0.5667 * 0.71456548 = 0.404944257516 (expected percent of damage after shield and armor) 1 - 0.404944257516 = 0.595055742484 (total mitigation against weapon+kinetic/energy attacks) 0.404944257516 * 0.7262 (1- evasion) = 0.2940705198081192 (purely theoretical percentage of damage per hit after shield, armor and evasion is calculated) 1 - 0.2940705198081192 = 0.7059294801918808 (purely theoretical mitigation per hit against the relevant type of damage) So, basically 70.6% mitigation, *if* we account for evasion and how it mathematically translates to mitigation and 59.5% pure mitigation.

I realised the OP was trolling us, when he said "once you master "strafe" movement you're almost guarantee a win". An absolute dead giveaway, 'cause nobody would consider "mastering strafe" anything beyond rudimentary for PvP gaming, let alone such an incredible feat to allow you to just stomp your opponents. If strafing guarantees a win in your PvP experience, you must be fighting mouth breathers all day. That'd explain why you are fine with losing against some, as there are obviously incredibly skilled clickers on your server, who happen to outplay you from time to time.

Seriously, show me that math, 'cause if that's your understanding of game mechanics, then that explains a lot. Post your armor mitigation, shield absorption and shield chance, so I can actually tell you what your "expected" mitigation (against melee and ranged attacks that are dealing kinetic/energy damage) is. It's not 80.9%, that I can tell you already. Guardians get a Deflection that additionally grants 25% damage reduction against force/tech.

It's 75% (25x3) and 12% currently.

1. "Shadow Strike proc": Shadow Strike has a positional requirement, you need to actually set up for it with other attacks and lastly you need to be lucky with a proc. It can also miss, making it all in vain. 2. "Force attacks": FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO CORRECT PEOPLE ON THIS STUPIDITY?! Force attacks have absolutely no bearing on whether an attack is mitigated by armor or resistances, it merely means the ability can not be resisted (unless you are immune). 3. "Talent can give 9% armor pen passively": That talent is in the Kinetic tree and for 9%, you'd have to spend 3 points on it. Even those who choose to play 2/31/8 only get 6% and you basically gimp yourself by doing so. If you're using Shadow Strike without the proc... well, I'm sorry. Blackout is also awesome and on fairly short cooldown. Your also fairly-short cooldown Vanish gives you the same force regen as does any time you get into normal stealth. Really not seeing how a constant 8 force is worse than the Scrapper "keep above 60% or ELSE" management, even with a Cool Head. The fact that Scrappers don't get many useful burst skills to burn the energy ON helps the management, absolutely. You can Quick Shot a lot and burn your energy, but Flurry does marginally less damage and is energy positive. If you like basic attacking a lot though, you shouldn't be having energy problems with a Shadow either. What about the rest of my post? You aren't going to get away with "for me force management is easier on a Shadow, because of the constant regen", when I have clearly laid out what that force regen amounts to in terms of practical ability useage.

Did you try and be wrong on purpose or do you just not know better? Not only does the Infiltration Shadow have the poorest resource management of all the ACs [just to point out the ridiculousness of it, once you have bottomed out your incredibly large force pool of 100, with abilities costing 30+ on average in any given burst rotation, the Infiltration Shadow will be able to cast a single Project every 6.25s and nothing else in order to stay at a net +/-0 force. Funny huh? ], the burst skills at their disposal are not even close to readily available (6s CD on an ability that costs half your resource pool, 15s CD on Force Breach, a positional attack that barring a proc will cost half of your resource pool again and then there's a big whole nothingness to fill the time between these attacks). To top it off, Infiltration Shadows have no armor debuff and no armor penetration whatsoever.

Not sure whether I am supposed to laugh about the fact that you think Kinetic Shadows are "by far" the best PvE tank, because of the healing from Harnessed Darkness or because you are saying it's hard to play the spec well. This game has given birth to a new breed of gamers, I am afraid.