Powertechs aren't OP

[HoyaPooch]

Amen. I find that most players are lazy/stupid/whatever. Nobody wants to think about who they're attacking, they just want to tab to the closest guy and pound away till they're dead. It 100% matters which players/classes you go after first. Why people don't think more in wz's is beyond me.

 

 

It's easy to say this. But that doesn't change the fact that there are serious balancing issues in this game.

 

If you took a merc/commando dps and pitted him against an equally geared and equally skilled PT/Vanguard -- if they dueled 100 times the PT/Vanguard would win 100 times and no fights would be close. That's just the reality of it. It has nothing to do with buffs, stims, adrenals, procs, crits, etc.

 

Now you can say that 1 v 1 in this game doesn't matter and that it's team and objective based PVP. And I 100% agree and that's all fine and dandy. But if a PT/Vanguard focuses on a merc/commando (which the good ones on my server say they purposely do), it's game over very quickly.

 

It's easy to say "nerf class A" or "class B is over-powered" and it's easy to respond by saying "L2P" and "you are bad". It'll be the age old pvp tug-of-war. But try to play a class in this game with weak defensive cooldowns and very little utility. Even if you are one of the most skilled players around, you will understand the fundamental imbalances in this game.

Edited May 12, 2012 by HoyaPooch

[Balor]

It's easy to say this. But that doesn't change the fact that there are serious balancing issues in this game.

 

If you took a merc/commando dps and pitted him against an equally geared and equally skilled PT/Vanguard -- if they dueled 100 times the PT/Vanguard would win 100 times and no fights would be close. That's just the reality of it. It has nothing to do with buffs, stims, adrenals, procs, crits, etc.

 

Now you can say that 1 v 1 in this game doesn't matter and that it's team and objective based PVP. And I 100% agree and that's all fine and dandy. But if a PT/Vanguard focuses on a merc/commando (which the good ones on my server say they purposely do), it's game over very quickly.

 

It's easy to say "nerf class A" or "class B is over-powered" and it's easy to respond by saying "L2P" and "you are bad". It'll be the age old pvp tug-of-war. But try to play a class in this game with weak defensive cooldowns and very little utility.

 

I can say the same thing about other classes winning in 1v1 against a powertech, so your argument is very moot. I am sure you play a merc/commando, and that you get creamed by some good powertech/vanguards. Big Deal. That doesn't mean the class needs to be nerfed. You probably play arsenal, and expect to have an easy win against a class that has 2 stuns, and interupt, and equal amount of def cooldowns. Sitting there spamming tracer is NOT the answer.... FYI

 

Merc/Commando is also the EASIEST class in the game atm to get the 5k dmg medal. There are a lot of players that will flock to the class that can hit the hardest in 1 hit, try and remember that...

 

What usually happens is again.... people DON'T target the PT/VG and leave him till last... for whatever reason, maybe it's the possibility in their mind they might be tank spec and don't want to have to switch targets based on chance. So they will go for the Marauder/Sent/Sorc/Sage first, and any healer. Whilst the powertech is able to unleash his RESOURCE heavy abilities that are at the same time damage heavy (who woulda thought)

 

 

but since kids (not saying you are one), are very hard to prove wrong (in their minds), lets for argument sake say Powertechs/VGs pyro tree damage gets nerfed (because QQers in here say so), then we will demand 2 more def cooldowns,every ability gets it heat cost cut in half, and our GCD reduced, deal?

Edited May 12, 2012 by Balor

[HoyaPooch]

I can say the same thing about other classes winning in 1v1 against a powertech, so your argument is very moot. I am sure you play a merc/commando, and that you get creamed by some good powertech/vanguards. Big Deal. That doesn't mean the class needs to be nerfed. You probably play arsenal, and expect to have an easy win against a class that has 2 stuns, and interupt, and equal amount of def cooldowns. Sitting there spamming tracer is NOT the answer.... FYI

 

Merc/Commando is also the EASIEST class in the game atm to get the 5k dmg medal. There are a lot of players that will flock to the class that can hit the hardest in 1 hit, try and remember that...

 

What usually happens is again.... people DON'T target the PT/VG and leave him till last... for whatever reason, maybe it's the possibility in their mind they might be tank spec and don't want to have to switch targets based on chance. So they will go for the Marauder/Sent/Sorc/Sage first, and any healer. Whilst the powertech is able to unleash his RESOURCE heavy abilities that are at the same time damage heavy (who woulda thought)

 

 

but since kids (not saying you are one), are very hard to prove wrong (in their minds), lets for argument sake say Powertechs/VGs pyro tree damage gets nerfed (because you say so), then we will demand 2 more def cooldowns,every ability gets it heat cost cut in half, and our GCD reduced, deal?

 

Valid points. I do have a commando but it's assault spec'd. I would have hated the play style of tracer missile spamming. It is rare to have a 5k crit in that spec but it doesn't matter. The damage output is extremely high over the course of a game. My premade doesn't lose often as we play objectively and have a good solid group. I also play a sorc healer and a vigilance guardian.

 

My favorite is my assault commando. But they just have very little utility and next to no survivability. Hitting your shield, a medpac, and your weak heal cd is just not useful.

 

Our premade consists of a shadow, a sage healer, a vanguard and myself. I have spent a lot of time picking the brain of the vanguard. And we have dueled a ton so I could learn as much about the class as I can. I do not have problems with sentinels. I do not have problems with assassins. And there is just a big (and I mean big) discrepancy in the damage output and damage reduction/defensive abilities of these 2 classes.

 

We have about 4 really good ones on our server. And our once popping server is down to some hardcore premades. So everyone knows everyone. Sometimes you beat very good teams. Sometimes you lose to very good teams. Sometimes you beat a very good player. Sometimes you lose to a very good player. All the raw numbers from a warzone seem pretty in tune and consistent. PT's and Vanguards generally do about 300k higher than the next dps in a voidstar and about 150k higher in the other 3 (and when I say generally I actually mean without question).

 

That's why I shake my head when every thread is talking about sents/maras. Their big spiky damage is so easily avoidable and they are able to be kited and they are able to be ranged. But not PT/Vanguards. I have spent hours trying.

Edited May 12, 2012 by HoyaPooch

[Blurps]

Just like Marauders, PTs go down very quick when you ACTUALLY target them!!!.

 

Well, Marauders don't actually, unless under very heavy focus fire. That's the reason they are op and Pyros aren't by the way.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Blurps

[SaulSerpine]

Valid points. I do have a commando but it's assault spec'd. I would have hated the play style of tracer missile spamming. It is rare to have a 5k crit in that spec but it doesn't matter. The damage output is extremely high over the course of a game. My premade doesn't lose often as we play objectively and have a good solid group. I also play a sorc healer and a vigilance guardian.

 

My favorite is my assault commando. But they just have very little utility and next to no survivability. Hitting your shield, a medpac, and your weak heal cd is just not useful.

 

Our premade consists of a shadow, a sage healer, a vanguard and myself. I have spent a lot of time picking the brain of the vanguard. And we have dueled a ton so I could learn as much about the class as I can. I do not have problems with sentinels. I do not have problems with assassins. And there is just a big (and I mean big) discrepancy in the damage output and damage reduction/defensive abilities of these 2 classes.

 

We have about 4 really good ones on our server. And our once popping server is down to some hardcore premades. So everyone knows everyone. Sometimes you beat very good teams. Sometimes you lose to very good teams. Sometimes you beat a very good player. Sometimes you lose to a very good player. All the raw numbers from a warzone seem pretty in tune and consistent. PT's and Vanguards generally do about 300k higher than the next dps in a voidstar and about 150k higher in the other 3 (and when I say generally I actually mean without question).

 

That's why I shake my head when every thread is talking about sents/maras. Their big spiky damage is so easily avoidable and they are able to be kited and they are able to be ranged. But not PT/Vanguards. I have spent hours trying.

 

Commando have also a dispell and don't need to be in melee to proc HIB.

[LiveandDieinLA]

Well, Marauders don't actually, unless under very heavy focus fire. That's the reason they are op and Pyros aren't by the way.

 

Except even with their better survivability Maras still can't match a PTs damage output. That means that if you take away a mara's cooldowns the gap between PT and mara damage will get even wider, and marauder will be a completely defunct class.

 

If one gets nerfed so will the other, because the two classes are pretty balanced to each other.

[Kim-Kim]

Take it, walk in operative/scoundrel shoose.

[Odahviin]

It's easy to say this. But that doesn't change the fact that there are serious balancing issues in this game.

 

If you took a merc/commando dps and pitted him against an equally geared and equally skilled PT/Vanguard -- if they dueled 100 times the PT/Vanguard would win 100 times and no fights would be close. That's just the reality of it. It has nothing to do with buffs, stims, adrenals, procs, crits, etc.

 

Now you can say that 1 v 1 in this game doesn't matter and that it's team and objective based PVP. And I 100% agree and that's all fine and dandy. But if a PT/Vanguard focuses on a merc/commando (which the good ones on my server say they purposely do), it's game over very quickly.

 

It's easy to say "nerf class A" or "class B is over-powered" and it's easy to respond by saying "L2P" and "you are bad". It'll be the age old pvp tug-of-war. But try to play a class in this game with weak defensive cooldowns and very little utility. Even if you are one of the most skilled players around, you will understand the fundamental imbalances in this game.

 

Ummm i have a guild buddy who owns pretty much every AC in this game with his merc

 

he pulls amazing damage / killing blows and is always the top of the chart.

 

what cracks me up is everyone out there screaming for buffs for his class which he is an absolute beast at.

 

go on buff the merc your just going to make him even more powerful and he can continue to laugh while steamrolling you all.

 

The question you all should be asking yourselves is why can some players in wz's do it and not yourself.

[Saerith]

Guess the powers that be don't want me to troll my own thread. Therefore, a couple of final points before I let you all squabble amongst yourselves:

 

1. I can't remove tech dots from myself. So far as I know, only commandos and scoundrels can. This is the last time I'll repeat that.

 

2. Bad pyros easily get 200k damage in warzones (somebody else's admission in this very thread). Other baddies struggle to get 75-100k.

 

3. For everyone saying sages can easily kite good pyros... no, just no. Pyros can keep sages perma slowed. My slow is 6s on a 12s cd. My knockback is pitiful and is basically only good for knocking people off of the catwalks in huttball. Seriously, it's only like 2m. Force speed is ok, but this is usually countered by grapple. I'm getting away, I'm getting away, oh no I'm not. I stand a fair chance if I have some corners and obstacles to LOS the pyro around, but out in the open I'm pretty much toast.

 

Somebody else made the suggestion that I should use force lift on the pyro. It's a possibility, but it'll probably get interrupted. If I feign him with a heal first, I've already wasted a GCD, in which time he's done like another 5k damage to me already. Force stun is another possibility, but it only lasts for 4s and is on a 1m cd. Grapple pretty much counters force speed, and getting frozen in carbonite sucks when you only have a few seconds left to live. However, I reiterate that pyros are the only class that can burn me down in less than 10s. Every other DPS class takes at least twice as long 1v1.

 

I guess you guys think 25k damage in 9s is pretty much "balanced" compared to other classes. I don't know how to convince you otherwise, so I'm not going to try any longer.

[KhealThar]

That's why the pvp in this game isn't about duels. This is why we have crowd control, heals and guard to stop DPS monsters (powertechs, marauders, snipers, juggs etc) some DPS are just going to eat your AC alive.

 

I've personally never had a powertech do that much damage to me, but you probably came across a very good one in which you're not a very good sage/sorcerer. It happens, people have a tendency in pvp to think they're better than they are and cry for nerfs when they die to something.

 

Bad pyros easily get 200k damage in warzones (somebody else's admission in this very thread). Other baddies struggle to get 75-100k.

 

Any class can easily get 200k damage in battlemaster gear lol? I play a Vengeance Jugg and I get over 200k while defending a node in alderraan..

Edited May 12, 2012 by KhealThar

[HoyaPooch]

Ummm i have a guild buddy who owns pretty much every AC in this game with his merc

 

he pulls amazing damage / killing blows and is always the top of the chart.

 

what cracks me up is everyone out there screaming for buffs for his class which he is an absolute beast at.

 

go on buff the merc your just going to make him even more powerful and he can continue to laugh while steamrolling you all.

 

The question you all should be asking yourselves is why can some players in wz's do it and not yourself.

 

I don't think you understand my point. I have absolutely zero issues with the dps of the merc/commando. Take out the PT's and Vanguards and there are few games where I would not be the top damage.

 

I think most mercs/commandos are worried about their survivability and utility with upcoming rated warzones because in the current state of the game, we just don't offer much except very good consistent and mobile (in my spec) damage.

 

So just take the merc/commando and compare him to the vanguard/PT. Given the exact same skilled player with similar gear, you tell me what advantages does the former over the latter. Both classes can nuke and then what? I

 

Then go have your friend duel a good PT/Vanguard on your server 10 times and tell me what happens. And yes I know 1 v 1 has nothing to do with warzones but there is still something to be said here. Talk to a very good PT/Vanguard and ask him what he thinks about mercs/commandos. If he/she is skilled they basically consider mercs and commandos a free kill despite their skill level or gear level.

 

Like I said I play a vig guardian and a sorc healer as well. I enjoy the commando the most. And PT's just melt commandos plain and simple.

Edited May 12, 2012 by HoyaPooch

[SaulSerpine]

I guess you guys think 25k damage in 9s is pretty much "balanced" compared to other classes. I don't know how to convince you otherwise, so I'm not going to try any longer.

 

I guess you can't understand it was with relic/adrenals...

[SajPl]

Zen+dots+master strike 14k hp in 3 seconds and 4 defensive cooldowns. Edited May 12, 2012 by SajPl

[Balor]

Guess the powers that be don't want me to troll my own thread. Therefore, a couple of final points before I let you all squabble amongst yourselves:

 

1. I can't remove tech dots from myself. So far as I know, only commandos and scoundrels can. This is the last time I'll repeat that.

 

2. Bad pyros easily get 200k damage in warzones (somebody else's admission in this very thread). Other baddies struggle to get 75-100k.

 

3. For everyone saying sages can easily kite good pyros... no, just no. Pyros can keep sages perma slowed. My slow is 6s on a 12s cd. My knockback is pitiful and is basically only good for knocking people off of the catwalks in huttball. Seriously, it's only like 2m. Force speed is ok, but this is usually countered by grapple. I'm getting away, I'm getting away, oh no I'm not. I stand a fair chance if I have some corners and obstacles to LOS the pyro around, but out in the open I'm pretty much toast.

 

Somebody else made the suggestion that I should use force lift on the pyro. It's a possibility, but it'll probably get interrupted. If I feign him with a heal first, I've already wasted a GCD, in which time he's done like another 5k damage to me already. Force stun is another possibility, but it only lasts for 4s and is on a 1m cd. Grapple pretty much counters force speed, and getting frozen in carbonite sucks when you only have a few seconds left to live. However, I reiterate that pyros are the only class that can burn me down in less than 10s. Every other DPS class takes at least twice as long 1v1.

 

I guess you guys think 25k damage in 9s is pretty much "balanced" compared to other classes. I don't know how to convince you otherwise, so I'm not going to try any longer.

 

Again, you are bashing your head against the wall like noone here has shown you evidence otherwise. Just because YOU cannot dispell their DoTs does NOT make them overpowered.... half the people in the game that CAN dispell their DoTs do NOT for goodness sakes....

 

If you dispell their DoTs they are gimped, not only resource choked (heat/ammo) but also cannot output damage.

 

By your logic, one could say all damage needs to be nerfed because the sorc/sage on your team didnt bubble you, you died and don't have a bubble of your own.

 

or that all non weapon damage should be nerfed because your deflection doesnt block it...

[lpsmash]

Yeah they hit hard, but they have no defense so its balanced

 

Actually, they have very good defense. They blow up their opponents much faster than they can kill him.

 

Ummm i have a guild buddy who owns pretty much every AC in this game with his merc

 

he pulls amazing damage / killing blows and is always the top of the chart.

 

what cracks me up is everyone out there screaming for buffs for his class which he is an absolute beast at.

 

go on buff the merc your just going to make him even more powerful and he can continue to laugh while steamrolling you all.

 

The question you all should be asking yourselves is why can some players in wz's do it and not yourself.

 

Anybody with a ranged class who doesn't get hit or has a lot of peels has the potential to top damages and kills. If he plays arsenal and they let him do a pve-like rotation, of course he's going to do insane damage. The same thing could be said for a lightning sorc., a sniper. That **** doesn't mean anything. Melee and healers usually get pounded first.

Edited May 12, 2012 by lpsmash

[RazielHex]

This thread is about DPS Vanguards/Powertechs. Not Shield....

 

Plus you are mentioning a 31/31/31 Point build listing all those abilities.

 

I roll 31/31/31. Anyone who doesn't is gimping themselves.

[Ich_Bin]

Actually, they have very good defense. They blow up their opponents much faster than they can kill him.

 

That really sums up the issue very well.

"The best defense is a good offense". Because PTs have the best offense in this game by definition they also have a very good defense.

 

By the way: anyone who calls PTs "glass cannons" really does not know this game very well. Sniper, Operative, Commando all go down much quicker while doing less burst damage (only Sniper comes close).

Edited May 12, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[kaya]

 

1. I can't remove tech dots from myself. So far as I know, only commandos and scoundrels can. This is the last time I'll repeat that.

 

 

Irrelevant tbh, they apply it much faster than anyone can remove it. Dispel would be a good and fair counter to pyro's if it had no cd - it does, it just means it'll take him a global longer to kill you.

Edited May 12, 2012 by kaya

[SaulSerpine]

That really sums up the issue very well.

"The best defense is a good offense". Because PTs have the best offense in this game by definition they also have a very good defense.

 

By the way: anyone who calls PTs "glass cannons" really does not know this game very well. Sniper, Operative, Commando all go down much quicker while doing less burst damage (only Sniper comes close).

 

A sniper has :

-dodging buble

-shield

-an other aoe shield 20%

-3 shield charges (15%)

-2 roots

-2 knockback

-cover system (20% defense)

-8s aoe mezz

- immune to cc for fews seconds.

[Ich_Bin]

A sniper has :

-dodging buble

-shield

-an other aoe shield 20%

-3 shield charges (15%)

-2 roots

-2 knockback

-cover system (20% defense)

-8s aoe mezz

- immune to cc for fews seconds.

 

I agree...which is why I stated "only Sniper comes close".

[SaulSerpine]

I agree...which is why I stated "only Sniper comes close".

 

A PT has :

-25% shield

-HOT 1%/s

-stun aoe 2.5s

-5% extra dmg reduction (heavy armor)

 

Yeah, PT has OP defensive cds. BW should nerf their dmg and remove the shield.

[Balor]

Irrelevant tbh, they apply it much faster than anyone can remove it. Dispel would be a good and fair counter to pyro's if it had no cd - it does, it just means it'll take him a global longer to kill you.

 

Yea pyro has infinite resources, can summon shiva, have an ability that deletes your character.

I want dispell to have no CD, and a toggle, so it just auto dispells everything on me. I also want a 80% defense buff perma, and heavy armor because I am only wearing medium, and in PVP the difference between medium and heavy is 1000000000%

I can do it too see ^

Edited May 12, 2012 by Balor

[Ich_Bin]

A PT has :

-25% shield

-HOT 1%/s

-stun aoe 2.5s

-5% extra dmg reduction (heavy armor)

 

Yeah, PT has OP defensive cds. BW should nerf their dmg and remove the shield.

 

Where did I state that PT has "OP defensive cds"? Don't try to twist my words only because you are scared of your class getting nerfed.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[Humankeg]

no they are effective and can still do really well.

 

Reading comprehension is hard, amirite?

 

Because what I crave most is to be validated by this forum's consensus, of which there will never be any. Talk to good pyrotechs. They crap all over marauders without CDs, and with CDs, marauders provide a bit of sport.

 

I suggest you talk to a good pyro an da good marauder, not those players that tell you they are good but are in fact complete garbage.

 

If a Marauder wins a 1v1 against a Pyrotech with the classes as they are right now, the pyro is bad. This is fact. A good pyro will force defensive cooldowns out of the Marauder within a few seconds of the start of the fight, and have no issues cleaning up afterwards.

 

Pyro's lose 100% of the time to marauders and assassins if both classes are played the well. Those two classes are just hard counters. So no, the pyro is not bad if he loses, the maruader is horrible if he loses. The ONLY class a maruader should lose a 1vs1 (if at all) to is an assassin.

 

PT needs 25% flat nerf, then many players resub ...

 

mara 15% nerf

 

juggernaut rage tree 10% nerf

 

operative healer 15% nerf

 

sniper 10% buff

 

merc dps 10% buff

 

sin 5% nerf

 

sorc dps 5% nerf

 

rest is ok now, prepared for ranked imao

 

Marauders have the best sustained damage, best defensive cool downs, and great utility. Pt's have great burst, horrible defense, and horrible utility. And PT's need a bigger nerf?

 

Someone should L2PvP

[kaya]

Yea pyro has infinite resources, can summon shiva, have an ability that deletes your character.

I want dispell to have no CD, and a toggle, so it just auto dispells everything on me. I also want a 80% defense buff perma, and heavy armor because I am only wearing medium, and in PVP the difference between medium and heavy is 1000000000%

I can do it too see ^

 

You misunderstand - im not saying they should remove the cd on dispel, I'm saying its a ******** 'counter' to pyros - its a minor annoyance, not a counter.