Powertechs aren't OP

[cashogy]

a dps class thats good at doing dps. crazy thought.

[Synxos]

Powertechs are OP.

oh yeah, don't tell me to L2P. I can solo marauders just fine.

I know how Powertechs work. They ARE OP.

[kaya]

and you're missing the point about the point made by you. You acted like they can constantly re apply the DoT, like they have infinite resources. So in fact dispell IS A COUNTER!!! Pyro is the MOST resource (heat/ammo) starved spec IN THE GAME, therefore dispell is an even bigger COUNTER to pyro then ANY other spec in game. Period.

 

 

Another reason why you won't see Pyro nerfed is because, ask anyone that does the real end game PVE, ALL specs of Powertech and Vanguard are at the bottom of the barrel in ALL categories

 

Again your missing the point - your dot has no cd, dispel does. Your resources are irrelevant you can regen from empty to full in, what?, 10 secs?

If i dispell a scoundrel snare its gone for 12 secs. If i dispel a sentinels Overload Saber i dont have to deal with it again for 12 secs. If i dispel mind crush its gone for 15 secs etc etc etc - THESE are counters.

If i dispel a Pyro dot / snare (I despise your snare), its reapplied a global later and i eat 5k damage from rail shot quickly followed by your sticky grenade thing and i say goodbye to half of my health, another dps so much as looks at me in that 2 global space of time i die, you regen your resource and i sit in the ress zone for 20 secs.

 

Lets say for arguments sake that its a group fight and your stuck auto attacking for a couple of globals to regen resources. It costs you a few secs during which you can carry a huttball, pull a ball carrier into a fire, cap a node, defuse a bomb or interrupt a cap.

Being resource starved for a few secs doesn't justify being able to kill someone as quickly as a pyro can.

 

And scoundrel is worse in pve and has been nerfed twice despite that.

[cashogy]

rail shot rarely hits for 5k. when it does, consumables are involved, so it is somewhat irrelevant.

 

pyrotech does NOT have the worst heat management in the game. based on my experience ive found that its actually easier to manage heat while putting out good damage as pyrotech rather than arsenal spec. just requires you to pay attention to what youre doing.

 

powertech in the pyrotech spec is very powerful, no doubt. but it is very easy to fight them off. if theyre not within 10m they cant proc more rail shots. powertechs only have 4 abilities with 30m range, and two of them are unload (useless for powertechs) and indendiary missiles (also useless b/c flame burst applies a dot in pyro spec).

 

if you know what youre doing, you can keep the powertech out of range easily enough. the only gap closer powertech's have are a dot based slow and grapple. use knockbacks and slows of your own to keep them away. >10m and they cant really do a whole lot of damage to you.

[Jarfunkz]

Again your missing the point - your dot has no cd, dispel does. Your resources are irrelevant you can regen from empty to full in, what?, 10 secs?

If i dispell a scoundrel snare its gone for 12 secs. If i dispel a sentinels Overload Saber i dont have to deal with it again for 12 secs. If i dispel mind crush its gone for 15 secs etc etc etc - THESE are counters.

If i dispel a Pyro dot / snare (I despise your snare), its reapplied a global later and i eat 5k damage from rail shot quickly followed by your sticky grenade thing and i say goodbye to half of my health, another dps so much as looks at me in that 2 global space of time i die, you regen your resource and i sit in the ress zone for 20 secs.

 

Lets say for arguments sake that its a group fight and your stuck auto attacking for a couple of globals to regen resources. It costs you a few secs during which you can carry a huttball, pull a ball carrier into a fire, cap a node, defuse a bomb or interrupt a cap.

Being resource starved for a few secs doesn't justify being able to kill someone as quickly as a pyro can.

 

 

 

And scoundrel is worse in pve and has been nerfed twice despite that.

 

Taking the dot off does what it is supposed to do. Make the pt/vg use more ammo/gain more heat. A pt/vg with no action is a spectator at best. Please re-read and understand, if your eyes can not move back, I will say it again... A pt/vg with no action is a spectator at best.

 

What I want to know, is why isn't the pt/vg cc'd the majority of the time when he pops all of his powerups? Without those powerups, his damage goes down 20-30%.

[Balor]

Taking the dot off does what it is supposed to do. Make the pt/vg use more ammo/gain more heat. A pt/vg with no action is a spectator at best. Please re-read and understand, if your eyes can not move back, I will say it again... A pt/vg with no action is a spectator at best.

 

What I want to know, is why isn't the pt/vg cc'd the majority of the time when he pops all of his powerups? Without those powerups, his damage goes down 20-30%.

 

I don't think he can read, he just copy and pasted his same post again. Young-lings will be Young-lings after all

[kaya]

Taking the dot off does what it is supposed to do. Make the pt/vg use more ammo/gain more heat. A pt/vg with no action is a spectator at best. Please re-read and understand, if your eyes can not move back, I will say it again... A pt/vg with no action is a spectator at best.

 

What I want to know, is why isn't the pt/vg cc'd the majority of the time when he pops all of his powerups? Without those powerups, his damage goes down 20-30%.

 

Im too busy being dead to care if he has resources or not. A pt/vg with no action is a spectator for a lot less time than my dead body. And last i checked you dont need ammo to cap nodes or take part in any WZ objective so i'd rather be in his position than mine.

They really dont need all their powerups to burst you down absurdly fast. The good ones tend to just cycle them around so they have one up as often as not. Keeping one cc'd for the 15 secs that one of them lasts is hard enough, its not going to happen if he spreads them around.

The only specs that anyone is making any comparisons to is a shadow tank or a sentinel both of which are rediculous for their own reasons - that should be telling as to their current state.

 

As for getting >10 yards away the rate at which they apply their slow makes that annoyingly difficult. Its a worthwhile argument for a scrapper because they have a cd on thier snare and no gap closer, it doesn't apply to vg's because they dont have either of them issues.

[Jarfunkz]

Im too busy being dead to care if he has resources or not. A pt/vg with no action is a spectator for a lot less time than my dead body. And last i checked you dont need ammo to cap nodes or take part in any WZ objective so i'd rather be in his position than mine.

They really dont need all their powerups to burst you down absurdly fast. The good ones tend to just cycle them around so they have one up as often as not. Keeping one cc'd for the 15 secs that one of them lasts is hard enough, its not going to happen if he spreads them around.

The only specs that anyone is making any comparisons to is a shadow tank or a sentinel both of which are rediculous for their own reasons - that should be telling as to their current state.

 

As for getting >10 yards away the rate at which they apply their slow makes that annoyingly difficult. Its a worthwhile argument for a scrapper because they have a cd on thier snare and no gap closer, it doesn't apply to vg's because they dont have either of them issues.

 

We have given you their weaknesses, we have given you your strengths... we have told you what to do and how to use your strengths to exploit their weaknesses. I don't know what else to say. I can only assume you lose 95% of your warzones.

[exphryl]

We have given you their weaknesses, we have given you your strengths... we have told you what to do and how to use your strengths to exploit their weaknesses. I don't know what else to say. I can only assume you lose 95% of your warzones.

 

I think he's assuming "Oh that's how you beat them? I see. Now it will work 100% of the time! YAY!" And when it does work out like the fairy tale belief that was, finds every issue possible to refute the strategy.

 

Strategies are simply that, strategies, they are not game winners as there is a lot that will rely on the player and in a lot of cases RNG on either procs or crits. This goes for any of the "OP" Classes. I mean, I know *how* to beat any class I want. Does that mean I always do? Nope. The times I lose do I ***** and moan about it? Nope. Just try and try again till I get it right.

[Nerifes]

As a sentinel dealing with a ton of PT rerolls which all seem to be going down the same tree path as everyone else, I simply just interrupt their big flamethrower move, toss on my accuracy debuff and pop my defensive cooldowns. granted they still almost kill me it's annoying.

[Kayse]

Thank you OP. Just thank you.

 

I get killed even faster on my server from a full War hero Powertech who crits for 7-9ks and 3 hits almost everyone Can't believe people who think that class isnt op and complain about sents/marauders.

[Vid-szhite]

Thank you OP. Just thank you.

 

I get killed even faster on my server from a full War hero Powertech who crits for 7-9ks and 3 hits almost everyone Can't believe people who think that class isnt op and complain about sents/marauders.

 

I'm waiting for it to come full circle as everyone rolls melee classes because they heard they were FotM, and we're back to complaining about Sorcs again like we were at release because everyone realizes melee classes actually do have a weakness to kiting, and only the best sorcs who actually know how to kite are left still playing Sorcs. We're already complaining about Operatives again, even though they've been nerfed in nearly every patch.

 

Guess who hasn't been complained about this patch, guys? Arsenal Mercenaries. Nuff said and that's pretty much it.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Vid-szhite

[lpsmash]

You already made yourself look stupid and your argument moot when you said our mobility is low. We have the highest mobility out of ANY ranged class. lol....

 

Also the shield is not on short CD and 25% for the little duration is not much. Heavy armor gives like a COUPLE % diff in PVP compared to medium... you fail again......Again you say the burst is insane, but in the end are just repeating what other QQers have said in this thread which have already been PROVEN wrong.

 

You made a long post but in reality is just says "I need to L2P"

 

Attacking him won't help make your case.

 

First, you're not exactly a ranged class, not pure ranged anyways. A lot of your key abilities are used within 10 meters and you have a melee interrupt. So against a ranged character you probably want to be in melee and against a melee you probably want to be at about 10 yards. I haven't found sorc mobility to be terribad, but I guess some of them aren't good at kiting. I'm talking dps sorc, not healer.

That leaves mercenary and sniper as ranged classes. Snipers don't exactly need a lot of mobility (entrench and uninterruptable) and they have a lot of control with roots, knockback/root, stun and aoe blind. And merc.. well mercs need some love. So yeah, you have the most mobility of the "ranged" but then you aren't really a ranged class. I think Juggernauts own you for mobility if you consider yourself a melee.

 

You haven't said anything about utility. Taunt (and aoe taunt too), 30m stun, grapple. They're all very powerful tools.

 

Defensive cooldowns --> They're not as good as marauders or assassins. We know, they have infinite defensive cooldowns. Yours are still "not so bad." At least if you compare to operatives, juggernauts, sorcerers who really lack in def cooldowns. I can't really say for mercenary, unfortunatly. I think you share a lot of their def cooldown? Heavy armor is really not bad. It makes a difference.

 

Damage -> Well, I think that's the issue. How has it been "proven" that the burst is not "insane" (simply quoting here, I don't mean to know what he implied by "insane"). Your idea of heavy armor that doesn't make much of a difference may be based on that. You cut through armor like butter with most of your abilities. Either it's elemental damage or it's railshot that ignores a good portion of damage. Yeah, you have a few attacks that deal kinetic or weapon damage, but nobody is going to complain about rapid shots or explosive dart. That may explain why the hate is spread among many players; it doesn't matter what you fight.

Yeah, I'm just waiting for that proof of "damage is fine" because that's why people whine about PT. I'm not going through 25+ pages to find it.

[KBSIP]

Attacking him won't help make your case.

 

First, you're not exactly a ranged class, not pure ranged anyways. A lot of your key abilities are used within 10 meters and you have a melee interrupt. So against a ranged character you probably want to be in melee and against a melee you probably want to be at about 10 yards. I haven't found sorc mobility to be terribad, but I guess some of them aren't good at kiting. I'm talking dps sorc, not healer.

That leaves mercenary and sniper as ranged classes. Snipers don't exactly need a lot of mobility (entrench and uninterruptable) and they have a lot of control with roots, knockback/root, stun and aoe blind. And merc.. well mercs need some love. So yeah, you have the most mobility of the "ranged" but then you aren't really a ranged class. I think Juggernauts own you for mobility if you consider yourself a melee.

 

You haven't said anything about utility. Taunt (and aoe taunt too), 30m stun, grapple. They're all very powerful tools.

 

Defensive cooldowns --> They're not as good as marauders or assassins. We know, they have infinite defensive cooldowns. Yours are still "not so bad." At least if you compare to operatives, juggernauts, sorcerers who really lack in def cooldowns. I can't really say for mercenary, unfortunatly. I think you share a lot of their def cooldown? Heavy armor is really not bad. It makes a difference.

 

Damage -> Well, I think that's the issue. How has it been "proven" that the burst is not "insane" (simply quoting here, I don't mean to know what he implied by "insane"). Your idea of heavy armor that doesn't make much of a difference may be based on that. You cut through armor like butter with most of your abilities. Either it's elemental damage or it's railshot that ignores a good portion of damage. Yeah, you have a few attacks that deal kinetic or weapon damage, but nobody is going to complain about rapid shots or explosive dart. That may explain why the hate is spread among many players; it doesn't matter what you fight.

Yeah, I'm just waiting for that proof of "damage is fine" because that's why people whine about PT. I'm not going through 25+ pages to find it.

 

Biggest thing they can do to balance PT damage is to balance the relationship between criticals and defense chances. ATM criticals overpower all defense options for any class unless its a full resist (pretty sure only sages/shadows get this cooldown). The DPS set for mercenaries, used by pyros, adds 15% crit to railshot. add this to a base of ~35% for a good optimization gear pumps to 50% BASE crit for EVERY railshot. add in a 2 minute cooldown for 25% more crit, 75% crit chance on your bread-and-butter damage dealer. Defense against this is simply impossible, which is why tanks for pyro DPS to deal with don't exist.

 

To be fair, I don't think the damage capabilites of pyros is overpowered. Pretty much all of their utility is mitigated by focus firing them, they are, and should always be, the #1 priority target if you can manage to outburst healing attempts. The irony here is that taunts, the primary utility tool for pyro DPS when not using grapple to handle healers, specifically is meant to DRAW MORE ATTENTION! people ignore this at their peril, and probably deserve their 30% damage loss if they're dumb enough to leave a high damage, taunt capable class unfocused. The actual damage abilities of pyros shouldn't be nerfed at all if you can help it, high damage capability is one of the only things keeping them viable in PVE content that is constantly becoming melee-unfriendly (operatives and scoundrels are already phased out of progression groups as they are essentially a crutch).

[iNeXxS]

Burst damage melee class with ranged abilities is going to do burst damage in melee range. We have heavy armor but that doesn't mean crap when we still can get melted by Marauders and Snipers, and PT's in Pyro spec only have 1 defensive CD. You know what that is? A glass cannon. Taunts? They're nice, but every Assassin and Juggernaut has them too. All instant cast abilities equal good mobility right? Wrong, Only 1 gap closer on a long CD and no speed boosts so we're screwed if you snare/slow us. You might also say we are a ranged class. We're not. Our auto attack and openers are at range but all that burst you see must be done at melee range so we can reset Rail Shot. And to get one thing straight, our Rail Shots usually crit for about 3.6-4.2k and sometimes a fully buffed, stim'd, and relic'd Rail Shot will hit for 4.8-5.2k on a light armor Sorc but we're not the only class that can hit that high.

 

PT's and Vanguards are NOT OP. Research the class and learn how to counter us just like you have to learn to counter Marauders or Assassins. Protip: Focus fire me, you'll burn me down in a few seconds.

[NDiggy]

Yeah they hit hard, but they have no defense so its balanced

 

I'm gonna call shenanigans on that one. Geared Vanguards/Powertechs can hit over 20k health and do over 450k damage. They laugh at anyone but a Tankassin. They make Marauders look balanced in comparison.

[fungihoujo]

I'm gonna call shenanigans on that one. Geared Vanguards/Powertechs can hit over 20k health and do over 450k damage. They laugh at anyone but a Tankassin. They make Marauders look balanced in comparison.

 

As opposed to.... what? Any class can do that. Health and endgame damage mean squat.

 

20k health with your defensive CD being a short cast 25% damage shield...

 

Compared to marauders who get a 30 sec 20% damage shield, immunity, stealth escape, leap for any spec, deflection buff, accuracy debuff- speed buff/defense buff... a bit more survivable.

 

Also- leap on 12 sec CD with root, ignores resolve. PT gap closer for pyrotechs- grapple, 45 sec CD, doesn't ignore resolve. You don't see the difference there do you?

[cashogy]

As opposed to.... what? Any class can do that. Health and endgame damage mean squat.

 

20k health with your defensive CD being a short cast 25% damage shield...

 

Compared to marauders who get a 30 sec 20% damage shield, immunity, stealth escape, leap for any spec, deflection buff, accuracy debuff- speed buff/defense buff... a bit more survivable.

 

Also- leap on 12 sec CD with root, ignores resolve. PT gap closer for pyrotechs- grapple, 45 sec CD, doesn't ignore resolve. You don't see the difference there do you?

 

/thread

[NDiggy]

As opposed to.... what? Any class can do that. Health and endgame damage mean squat.

 

20k health with your defensive CD being a short cast 25% damage shield...

 

Compared to marauders who get a 30 sec 20% damage shield, immunity, stealth escape, leap for any spec, deflection buff, accuracy debuff- speed buff/defense buff... a bit more survivable.

 

Also- leap on 12 sec CD with root, ignores resolve. PT gap closer for pyrotechs- grapple, 45 sec CD, doesn't ignore resolve. You don't see the difference there do you?

 

So, you take no damage, dish out massive damage, you taunt and guard, you interrupt and peel. Sound balanced to me.

[Ich_Bin]

It's actually very funny to watch all those Powertechs compare their class to Tank Sins and Marauders to make them look balanced.

[Xerain]

 

Also- leap on 12 sec CD with root, ignores resolve. PT gap closer for pyrotechs- grapple, 45 sec CD, doesn't ignore resolve. You don't see the difference there do you?

 

what one would you rather do? Pull 1 enemy into a group of your teammates or Jump away from your teammates into a group of enemies?

 

You figure out which one is actually better

 

(the 45 second CD is a little much TBH)

[Twor]

So, you take no damage, dish out massive damage, you taunt and guard, you interrupt and peel. Sound balanced to me.

 

Yes we are also the only class that runs the 31/31/31 spec . Try running it as well on your toon and you will see the amazing difference.

 

what one would you rather do? Pull 1 enemy into a group of your teammates or Jump away from your teammates into a group of enemies?

 

You figure out which one is actually better

 

(the 45 second CD is a little much TBH)

 

Grapple for offensive use is amazing. But don't forget the fact that you can use leap for defensive purposes as well- getting too much damage? Charge someone who is in a good position away from the fray.

 

And in HB I'd change my grapple for a 15 second charge without a second thought. Specially in PUG games when everyone seems to play fill the resolve of the carrier as fast as possible.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Twor

[Xerain]

Yes we are also the only class that runs the 31/31/31 spec . Try running it as well on your toon and you will see the amazing difference.

 

 

 

Grapple for offensive use is amazing. But don't forget the fact that you can use leap for defensive purposes as well- getting too much damage? Charge someone who is in a good position away from the fray.

 

And in HB I'd change my grapple for a 15 second charge without a second thought. Specially in PUG games when everyone seems to play fill the resolve of the carrier as fast as possible.

 

The huttball thing is kind of a toss up. pulling people into the hazards seems much better. and EW PUGS.

[Twor]

The huttball thing is kind of a toss up. pulling people into the hazards seems much better. and EW PUGS.

 

It only seems much better. Like stated grapple fills resolve. Lots of it. And like you mentioned the CD is thrice the time of the charges. I play IF and sometimes Assault and the difference in hutball between having a charge and not is amazing.

You can also charge people on the hazards, as all class charges have a root attached

[Runarok]

Takes longer then that to regen if we have to reapply the DoT. If you think your dispel has that long of a CD you obviously don't even play.

 

Ravage allowed to go full duration will take more then 1/2 your heatlh. That is technically less time.

Deception assassin critting shock and discharge will take 1/2 your health.

Operative critting Hidden strike and Backstab and shiv will probably take 1/2 your health

Sniper critting explosive prob and ambush will take half your health (even more since follow thru is insta)

Merc casting 3 TMs and a Heat seeker will take half your health. Especially if HS crits.

so it's not okay for a Powertech taking half your health when critting Thermal det and Railshot? (there had to be a DoT on to use railshot so you already forgot 1 damaging ability you were already hit with)

 

Need I go on??

 

Learn

2

Play

 

Actually, dispell has a 4.5s CD. Pyrotechs can re-apply their dot with every flame burst that has no CD. So how could dispell be a hard counter to Pyrotechs?