Powertechs aren't OP

[Guioki]

Currently 30% at BM, Haven't checked the WH numbers so I did put in some % there as a top

 

Did you take any additional DR talents? Or maybe 30% is right and I haven't looked in ages.

[SaulSerpine]

LOL saw it comming i.e. numbers do not matter....

 

A sage : 20% dmg reduction/

PT DPS : 30% dmg reduction.

 

Give me your bubble and i give you my 10% extra reduction.

[Twor]

Where do you get the crazy idea that a Sage has inininte resources?

I have to sacrifice life bar to get more Force Energy and how would that be Infinite. Does a Sages have endless health?

Now my Sawbones would be fit that description better.

 

Maybe spec a few poinbts into balance and spam tk as a filler...

 

@ich_bin Nah, The sage vs Vanguards comparision was made by someone else, see my orange vs apples line a few posts ago, like I said comparing burst vs sustained makes no sense but since metalmac seems so happy at it

[Twor]

Did you take any additional DR talents? Or maybe 30% is right and I haven't looked in ages.

 

No additional % talants taken- and in plasma

[BlackZoback]

Currently 30% at BM, Haven't checked the WH numbers so I did put in some % there as a top

 

Upgrading to WH nets you about a +.15 DR increase per piece so maxxed out with no +% modifiers DR would be around 31.25%.

Edited May 14, 2012 by BlackZoback

[Twor]

Upgrading to WH nets you a +.155 DR increase per piece so maxxed out with no +% modifiers DR would be around 31.25%.

 

Thanks Not many WZs on my server so I just did use some exetemplary numbers. Thanks for giving the concrete ones now!

[xBloodcrazed]

1) Battle Focus allows a Vanguard to hit crit chains more often then other classes

2) Vanguard is able to use strong burst aoe and dots to bolster overall damage scores

 

The damage per hit a vanguard can do is in line with (even slightly lower) then every dps class. the time delayed front loaded burst dmg has a real nice timing but theres already internal mechanics that severely limits your follow up attacks and overall burst potential.

 

The only thing that can be questioned about PT/Vanguard is the Battle Focus ability however since the AC has no other offensive cooldowns and aside cooldown ending hib procs theres very little else in terms of on demand procs or a proc chain from using a proper rotation like other classes get.

 

in the end its very hard to say for sure

[exphryl]

Where do you get the crazy idea that a Sage has inininte resources?

I have to sacrifice life bar to get more Force Energy and how would that be Infinite. Does a Sages have endless health?

Now my Sawbones would be fit that description better.

 

From a DPS Perspective, a Sage/Sorc can continue their rotation and use of spells for a much much longer time before they need to worry about their resource system. That's pretty much common knowledge.

 

Also, from what I understand you spec Telekinetics. Should really be doing Balance if you want to PvP....

 

Sages are designed to heal themselves. Build distance, heal, attack, so forth. Not straight up stand there and take the damage.

Edited May 14, 2012 by exphryl

[Greedy]

It sounds like PT pyros are immune to stun, knock backs, root etc. And that they have unlimited resources, three shooting everything around them... YES, the burst of a pyro can be good. But its pretty much the only advantage a PT pyro have over other classes, and we can't use TD - IM - RS - RP - RS on every target cuz of heat management and cooldowns.

[Twor]

1) Battle Focus allows a Vanguard to hit crit chains more often then other classes

2) Vanguard is able to use strong burst aoe and dots to bolster overall damage scores

 

The damage per hit a vanguard can do is in line with (even slightly lower) then every dps class. the time delayed front loaded burst dmg has a real nice timing but theres already internal mechanics that severely limits your follow up attacks and overall burst potential.

 

The only thing that can be questioned about PT/Vanguard is the Battle Focus ability however since the AC has no other offensive cooldowns and aside cooldown ending hib procs theres very little else in terms of on demand procs or a proc chain from using a proper rotation like other classes get.

 

in the end its very hard to say for sure

 

Battle focus raises the cit chance by 25%.

So if you have the around 30% recommended critchance you get 55%.

Add to that the 15% for railshot only if you have 4set bonus and you are at 70% for railshot and still around 55% for the rest.

You make it sound as if we get guaranteed crits when popping BF. You can go unlucky and crit none of your abilities after popping BF and your other CDs. Or you can get lucky and get a perfect crit row.

[wiazabi]

From a DPS Perspective, a Sage/Sorc can continue their rotation and use of spells for a much much longer time before they need to worry about their resource system. That's pretty much common knowledge.

 

Also, from what I understand you spec Telekinetics. Should really be doing Balance if you want to PvP....

 

Sages are designed to heal themselves. Build distance, heal, attack, so forth. Not straight up stand there and take the damage.

 

Why would anyone play a class if it was actually designed to be this way?

 

That way of playing should be something hybrids use not fully 31 point specs.

 

Its like saying a tank who is specced dps should just stand there and attack ... ohh wait sorry my bad.

[Paranoidpuz]

Move 60% armor Pen up AP Tree-

 

End of story-

nothing to nerf-

Edited May 14, 2012 by Paranoidpuz

[Balor]

Move 60% armor Pen up AP Tree-

 

End of story-

nothing to nerf-

 

Not going to happen. Derp

 

The only thing Bioware might do (with their lack of IQ reputation), is move the 60% ArP talent to Pyrotech, kinda like what they did to juggs with smash talent. In which case there will be no reason to play PT over merc and you will get unsubs/rerolls. Knockbacks and heals ladies, knockbacks and heals.

(Interesting considering there are already more mercs then there are PTs) probably because PTs are low on PVE totem pole.

[wiazabi]

Not going to happen. Derp

 

The only thing Bioware might do (with their lack of IQ reputation), is move the 60% ArP talent to Pyrotech, kinda like what they did to juggs with smash talent. In which case there will be no reason to play PT over merc and you will get unsubs/rerolls. Knockbacks and heals ladies, knockbacks and heals.

(Interesting considering there are already more mercs then there are PTs) probably because PTs are low on PVE totem pole.

 

I think the chance for em to nerf operatives further instead is higher though or do both.

[NDiggy]

Not going to happen. Derp

 

The only thing Bioware might do (with their lack of IQ reputation), is move the 60% ArP talent to Pyrotech, kinda like what they did to juggs with smash talent. In which case there will be no reason to play PT over merc and you will get unsubs/rerolls. Knockbacks and heals ladies, knockbacks and heals.

(Interesting considering there are already more mercs then there are PTs) probably because PTs are low on PVE totem pole.

 

Every Merc/Commando on my server has rerolled or quit. God forbid you guys have to actually work for a kill.

[xBloodcrazed]

Battle focus raises the cit chance by 25%.

So if you have the around 30% recommended critchance you get 55%.

Add to that the 15% for railshot only if you have 4set bonus and you are at 70% for railshot and still around 55% for the rest.

You make it sound as if we get guaranteed crits when popping BF. You can go unlucky and crit none of your abilities after popping BF and your other CDs. Or you can get lucky and get a perfect crit row.

 

Sorry im not trying to say that Battle Focus guarantees a 4-6 crit hit streak everytime. im just saying Vanguards are getting the attention cause we are able to miracle chain crit slightly more often then others.

[CoNfuSioN_]

I personally blame people like Exphryl. He takes a video "compilation" of all his best burst situations over the course of a few days, edits them into a 7 minute clip, and every drooling retard on this forum goes into epileptic seizures over the "constant reality" of vanguard/powertech burst damage.

 

Maybe I finally have a reason to log in again. I can FRAPS a warzone where all that "insane burst dmg" happens maybe 2 times in a whole civil war and the rest of the time I'm getting 1.8k dmg HiBs.

[xBloodcrazed]

Move 60% armor Pen up AP Tree-

 

End of story-

nothing to nerf-

 

the 60% armor pen is low in the tree to try and balance the armor pen a commando will get from AP cell.

its important to remember that armor pen is more about normalizing the dmg between tanks and casters

This ability is meant by design to have high armor pen the proof is reflected in its low base dmg

im currently rolling with 1772 aim and 319 power and according to the abilty description it will do between 1718-1940 Weapon dmg compare this with other abilities that also share a 15 second cooldown anything thats either weapon damamge or kinetic and what youll see is high impact bolt to be fairly weak by comparison.

[Twor]

Sorry im not trying to say that Battle Focus guarantees a 4-6 crit hit streak everytime. im just saying Vanguards are getting the attention cause we are able to miracle chain crit slightly more often then others.

 

Yup, was just pointing out that with 70% crit on hip and around 55% on the other rotation like exphryl also stated in the often quoted burst video, getting all those crits in a line is the optimum. I'm too lazy for possibility math how often that is the case though

[CoNfuSioN_]

I think this describes this thread quite well-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Prp615mmDk&feature=related

[exphryl]

I personally blame people like Exphryl. He takes a video "compilation" of all his best burst situations over the course of a few days, edits them into a 7 minute clip, and every drooling retard on this forum goes into epileptic seizures over the "constant reality" of vanguard/powertech burst damage.

 

Maybe I finally have a reason to log in again. I can FRAPS a warzone where all that "insane burst dmg" happens maybe 2 times in a whole civil war and the rest of the time I'm getting 1.8k dmg HiBs.

 

I have some full warzone videos, quite a few up. But that would require people looking at some logical scenarios instead of a compilation and I feel their head would explode otherwise.

 

[Agooz]

I'm a sage healer with full BM and a few pieces of war hero gear. Here's what Jager, a powertech, does to me on my server:

 

[17:03:47.182] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [incendiary Missile {2027022700249088}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Burning (Tech) {2027022700249344}] ()
[17:03:47.841] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [incendiary Missile {2027022700249088}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (907* elemental {836045448940875} (907 absorbed {836045448945511})) <907>
[17:03:49.585] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [Thermal Detonator {2027100009660416}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Thermal Detonator {2027100009660416}] ()
[17:03:49.586] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [Thermal Detonator {2027100009660416}] [Event {836045448945472}: ModifyThreat {836045448945483}] () <1>
[17:03:50.319] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [burning (Tech) {2027022700249344}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (604* elemental {836045448940875} (604 absorbed {836045448945511})) <604>
[17:03:50.933] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [sweltering Heat {2268958208032768}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Slowed (Tech) {2268958208033027}] ()
[17:03:50.934] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [Combustible Gas Cylinder {2020687623487488}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Burning (Tech) {2020687623487746}] ()
[17:03:50.934] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [burning (Tech) {2020687623487746}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (903* elemental {836045448940875}) <903>
[17:03:50.935] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [Rail Shot {814278554681344}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (4768* energy {836045448940874} (1276 absorbed {836045448945511})) <4768>
[17:03:51.918] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [Plasma Burst {2785458090147840}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (165 elemental {836045448940875}) <165>
[17:03:51.918] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [burning (Tech) {2020687623487746}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (903* elemental {836045448940875}) <903>
[17:03:52.256] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [Flame Burst {814222720106496}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (1835* elemental {836045448940875}) <1835>
[17:03:52.927] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [Thermal Detonator {2027100009660416}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (4253* kinetic {836045448940873}) <4253>
[17:03:52.927] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [Thermal Detonator {2027100009660416}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Thermal Detonator {2027100009660416}] ()
[17:03:53.313] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [burning (Tech) {2027022700249344}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (604* elemental {836045448940875}) <604>
[17:03:53.608] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [Rocket Punch {814300029517824}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (3211* kinetic {836045448940873}) <3211>
[17:03:54.015] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [sweltering Heat {2268958208032768}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Slowed (Tech) {2268958208033027}] ()
[17:03:55.014] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [burning (Tech) {2020687623487746}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (1175* elemental {836045448940875}) <1175>
[17:03:55.145] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [incendiary Missile {2027022700249088}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Burning (Tech) {2027022700249344}] ()
[17:03:55.145] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [Combustible Gas Cylinder {2020687623487488}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Burning (Tech) {2020687623487746}] ()
[17:03:55.148] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [burning (Tech) {2020687623487746}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (1175* elemental {836045448940875}) <1175>
[17:03:55.149] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [] [Event {836045448945472}: Death {836045448945493}] ()
[17:03:55.160] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [Flame Burst {814222720106496}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (1913* elemental {836045448940875}) <1913>
[17:03:56.804] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [Flame Burst {814222720106496}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (2062* elemental {836045448940875}) <2062>
[17:03:56.804] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [] [Event {836045448945472}: Death {836045448945493}] ()
[17:03:56.806] [@Jager] [@Jaime] [Quell {2204499338854400}] [Event {836045448945472}: ModifyThreat {836045448945483}] () <1>

 

Here are the numbers: 24,478 damage in 9.624 seconds. If you don't count the dots that tick after I die "the first time" (I dunno, how can I die twice in a row?), he actually kills me in 7.308 seconds. But no, his class isn't OP at all.

 

No other class even comes close to those kinds of numbers for burst damage, and the only reason sages can "out DPS" him at all is because of their AoE spam. Seriously, Bioware. What the heck?

 

Yea because class balance should be based ENTIRELY on damage/burst output. Because PTs can speed boost over hazards, and can friendly pull someone, and can intercede, or push someone off. Becase PTs have immunity bubbles, can heal themselves, purge their dots, and have marauder's defensive CDs. Because PTs can stealth, and CC like no one else. Because PT tanks are as as effective as Tanksins, or can stance dance like other Tanks. Seriously?

You lost your pre 1.2 supremacy as a Sorc/Sage/Merc/whatever and now you're upset about it?

[Saerith]

Yea because class balance should be based ENTIRELY on damage/burst output. Because PTs can speed boost over hazards, and can friendly pull someone, and can intercede, or push someone off. Becase PTs have immunity bubbles, can heal themselves, purge their dots, and have marauder's defensive CDs. Because PTs can stealth, and CC like no one else. Because PT tanks are as as effective as Tanksins, or can stance dance like other Tanks. Seriously?

You lost your pre 1.2 supremacy as a Sorc/Sage/Merc/whatever and now you're upset about it?

 

I still got blown up by that PT pre-1.2. When I could do 25k burst healing in 9s, people were rightfully upset, and my class deserved a nerf. Now all the PTs are QQing, just like the vast majority of sages, that their healing/damage/whatever isn't OP.

 

This isn't something I've felt just since 1.2 came out. I've felt it for much longer than that, but I decided to play with the 1.2 changes for a while to see if the 1.2 PT nerf really amounted to that much at all, but it really didn't.

[Hethroin]

I still got blown up by that PT pre-1.2. When I could do 25k burst healing in 9s, people were rightfully upset, and my class deserved a nerf. Now all the PTs are QQing, just like the vast majority of sages, that their healing/damage/whatever isn't OP.

 

This isn't something I've felt just since 1.2 came out. I've felt it for much longer than that, but I decided to play with the 1.2 changes for a while to see if the 1.2 PT nerf really amounted to that much at all, but it really didn't.

 

I want to see more 4 healer vs 5 healer voidstar screenshots please.