Dual Spec: Let's Talk about it.

[Takanada]

I've never really been against having the ability to switch between two different specs. I liked that about Rift, but it did get a little overboard with... what was it 6 different specs? Anyways, I'd like to be able to fill either a tank or dps role with my Guardian without having to spend a ton of credits to do so.

[Axonation]

Yea works well for any type of class, can switch to a more pvp role from your usual pve spec, or if like me switch from tanking to dps. its just nice to have the option, no ones gaining anything from the game charging us thousands of credits to respec over and over.

[TheHowling]

Hmmm two sets of gear to pay repair costs for

[Rhinzual]

Exactly!

 

My experience from WoW was that some people were protesting it, but I didn't know a single person in game who did not use and benefit from dual specs. For example our healers who could now have some fun throwing out some damage outside of raids, or our main tank who could do the same. As DPS I used it to optimize my performance in raids, others used it switch between PvE and PvP mode.

 

Sure we got PUG tanks in DPS gear, but on the whole it was a positive change. And I think it even helped us get rid of a lot of the PvP-specced people underperforming in PvE groups.

 

The reason it's JUST dual-spec and not quadruple spec or something is because your spec will still matter. You don't have infinite possibilities with the same character at any given time unless you pay for it. It isn't meant to give you everything at once and completely remove all meaning from skill trees, it's just meant to give us some flexibility.

My experience from Everquest back in 2002-2003 is that it was a genuinely hard game that made players get good or they left/ragequit.

 

Even now I find it insulting when someone tells me I want easymode or that I shouldn't complain when the bodyguard merc tries to DPS in Athiss and he's the only healer. To be quite frank, I despise easymode, and even Nightmare Mode Ops sound like a walk in the park. I didn't get around to full-on raiding in EverQuest because college started getting more time consuming and I had to drop it, EverQuest that is. 16-man groups facing hard content where dying amounts to doing the fight again after doing a quick repair is still nothing to The Sleeper when SoV came out and was taken down by the top raiding guilds on the PvP server.

 

Hardmode in this game? Less likely than you think. This crotchety older gamer laughs whenever he sees someone on these boards whining about how dual-spec or whatever will make the game too easy. It already is too easy in my mind, but it's still fun for me anyway.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go lament the inability to accidently attack a level 50 Trainer NPC who'd promptly one-shot you and force you to do a corpse run and having dropped a level.

[StrakeT]

While dual specs will save me time from re-rolling, I think they put too much time into the aspects of story and leveling that the implementation of dual specs would ruin. Dual specs will ruin that because it will enable us to easily spec into external roles rather than re-roll a more capable character. It's all very open to discussion but i think I will be happy either way. I just want one role per character. Not a position that fluctuates.

[Eludajae]

They say its coming, and well it gets here when it gets here. Personally I perfer them working on content but Ops and HM's over coding in a dual spec.

[Caelrie]

While dual specs will save me time from re-rolling, I think they put too much time into the aspects of story and leveling that the implementation of dual specs would ruin. Dual specs will ruin that because it will enable us to easily spec into external roles rather than re-roll a more capable character. It's all very open to discussion but i think I will be happy either way. I just want one role per character. Not a position that fluctuates.

 

You can already change your character's role, you know. Just go visit the mentor on the fleet.

[Dasthug]

Dual specs will ruin that because it will enable us to easily spec into external roles rather than re-roll a more capable character.

 

I don't understand that at all. How is something "an external role" if it is just one of the other specs available to your AC? There's nothing "external" about it.

[GOYAFIDO]

While dual specs will save me time from re-rolling, I think they put too much time into the aspects of story and leveling that the implementation of dual specs would ruin. Dual specs will ruin that because it will enable us to easily spec into external roles rather than re-roll a more capable character. It's all very open to discussion but i think I will be happy either way. I just want one role per character. Not a position that fluctuates.

 

You do know we can respec anytime we want, already, yes? The price gouge even resets every week.

[subrosian]

and it also helps the tank/healer shortage

 

Eh... yes and no.

 

It helps get more tanks / healers to stay online doing things like dailies by improving our quality of life. Since we don't have to waste a lot of time and money to dps spec, we might be around more doing other stuff instead of playing on DPS alts.

 

However, the Tank / Healer shortage is really always going to exist, because support personality types are much rarer AND the people who prefer DPS tend to make bad tanks and heals.

[Mattybizzle]

When I heard "Dual Specifications" were making it into the game, I don't know what you all thought, but my understanding was that you could utilize abilities from multiple Skill Trees, one being your Primary, and another your Secondary. At least, that's what I hope they do. So a Juggernaut could put 5 Skill Points into Tier 1 skills on say Immortal as the Primary, which would then raise your Secondary to Tier 2 as well as the Primary; Allowing you to become more powerful, but also Spec into specific roles. Also the amount of skill points we're given shouldn't be increased.

 

I think dual specifications should only be allowed at 50. Restricting people to play a specific role until then would be benficial when teaming with random people, "LF1M Tank" not "LF1M Tank who has X skill, and not X skill. But also has X skill for X situation." At 50, I would presume that people have enough knowledge from respecs, which I believe should be given out for free at regular increments (time or level), and trial and error to make educated decisions about what powers they do and don't want.

 

Even with this idea you'd be hard pressed to find the "Ultimate build" with so many equipment options and Set Bonuses from higher level gear.

 

*Since looking over the Topic more, it seems that they're talking about talking about having multiple Builds. That's what we called them on City of Heroes/Villains.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Mattybizzle

[Sixball]

Dual-spec is a great idea, for both PVP and PVE

 

In a Raid, lets say your MT / MH has a RL something to drop the game for, or DC's. I, As a dual-speced DPS/Tank - or DPS/Heals - can flip specs and, even though were 1 DPS down, can continue the Raid uninhibited by the time it takes to go back to fleet, wipe skills, rebuild specs and travel back

 

Also, It allows for MORE versatility in Raid / End-Game developement. The Devs can now make encounters that require 2-3 Tanks (or no tanks at all), some that are more heal-intensive, etc.

 

From Reading the posts here, the nay-sayers are all about "IMO..." which typically precludes logic and exemplifies a severe lack of MMO RAID / End-game Experience

 

I was a Ret/Prot Paly, Elemental/Resto Shammie and Arms/Prot Warrior in WOW, have played other numerous MMOs since the beta of UO. Dual spec has been a huge boon to Raids, and I for one am glad to see it being implemented here.

[PinnyFox]

When I heard "Dual Specifications" were making it into the game, I don't know what you all thought, but my understanding was that you could utilize abilities from multiple Skill Trees, one being your Primary, and another your Secondary. At least, that's what I hope they do. So a Juggernaut could put 5 Skill Points into Tier 1 skills on say Immortal as the Primary, which would then raise your Secondary to Tier 2 as well as the Primary; Allowing you to become more powerful, but also Spec into specific roles. Also the amount of skill points we're given shouldn't be increased.

 

I think dual specifications should only be allowed at 50. Restricting people to play a specific role until then would be benficial when teaming with random people, "LF1M Tank" not "LF1M Tank who has X skill, and not X skill. But also has X skill for X situation." At 50, I would presume that people have enough knowledge from respecs, which I believe should be given out for free at regular increments (time or level), and trial and error to make educated decisions about what powers they do and don't want.

 

Even with this idea you'd be hard pressed to find the "Ultimate build" with so many equipment options and Set Bonuses from higher level gear.

 

*Since looking over the Topic more, it seems that they're talking about talking about having multiple Builds. That's what we called them on City of Heroes/Villains.

 

You've never played a game with dual spec before, have you?

 

It's a button that let's you "respec" between two sets of talent trees, typically with a cooldown and unable to be used in combat. There's nothing about "Now my character is a mesh of concealment/medicine as an operative!" It would be, "I'm concealment now, but if I need to I push this button and become medicine without having to spend money."

 

It's basically the byproduct of stupid high respec costs alongside stupid retardedly hard PvE/PvP content that forces people to have specific talents to be effective, as well as making it so if you don't have certain talents, you're worthless in PVP.

 

Then you aren't given enough points to have both PvE and PvP viability on a single character, which again forces people to pay the stupid high respec costs. So instead of actually addressing the problem (Stupid high respec costs, etc) developers just put a band-aid around the boo boo called dual-spec.

 

 

It's also an excuse for some people to only ever play with the same 4 or so people, while shunning everyone else in the community and acting like they're the best ever, because "oh if someone drops I can just SWITCH MY SPEC and take over instead of having to go through the BOTHER of letting another human being play!"

Edited February 24, 2012 by PinnyFox

[BlueIndigo]

...by making each player able to fullfill pretty much any role at the flip of a switch , and enabling a change from my dps to my healer spec, then that cheapens those roles. It makes fewer people neccesary to achieve any group goal. I'm more concerned with some of the other more vital issues, such as class balance or quick travel to reduce the many transistion screens we have to go through to reach various locations.

IMO, I agree with those who say "Don't give us dual specs, don't WOWinfornicate SWOTOR."

 

The Evenstar Legacy:

Indigo

Saga

Rapier

Elek'tra

and many more!

[Korevas]

...by making each player able to fullfill pretty much any role at the flip of a switch , and enabling a change from my dps to my healer spec, then that cheapens those roles. It makes fewer people neccesary to achieve any group goal. I'm more concerned with some of the other more vital issues, such as class balance or quick travel to reduce the many transistion screens we have to go through to reach various locations.

IMO, I agree with those who say "Don't give us dual specs, don't WOWinfornicate SWOTOR."

 

The Evenstar Legacy:

Indigo

Saga

Rapier

Elek'tra

and many more!

 

Then by all means, find a group of like minded people and don't use that feature. Meanwhile, I will enjoy having a smooth levelling experience as a dd and some added group functionality as a tank/healer on most of my characters.

 

In fact, I wouldn't mind having an optional advanced class respec available, but that would be pushing it and nobody realistically expects anything like it in the near future.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Korevas

[illgot]

I think the amount of storylines and time put into it promotes multiple playthroughs.

 

I think the legacy system promotes multiple playthroughs.

 

I think dual specs would go right against the 2 previously mentioned items and not make any sense in this game. Which is interesting for me, because i'm usually for dual specs.

 

does the story change if I play a Merc BH and a Power BH?

 

does the story actually get better when I do the same mission for the 10th time just to get out of the starter area?

 

The story in this game is crap. The game play is fair, and the content is repetitive.

[hadoken]

does the story change if I play a Merc BH and a Power BH?

 

does the story actually get better when I do the same mission for the 10th time just to get out of the starter area?

 

The story in this game is crap. The game play is fair, and the content is repetitive.

 

Depends on the choices you make. If you're always spamming 1 and the spacebar, then yes identical. That's on you though, not the game.

[NasDragon]

Screw the Dual Spec and do not go down the path of Dual AC. Play the game the way it was ment and developed to be played. You think these developers spent one night in a room with a couple of cold ones and decided "hey lets make a new mmo that is different from the rest and piss off everyone that ever played an mmo by creating a game that is completley different from all of them" Probably not. They probably looked at WoW and other successfull mmo's and made a decision as to what they liked didn't like and would like to see. I am sure that during testing and develpment these were questions that were raised and delt with time and time again. However since releasing the game to the general public, BIOWARE has had to rethink it's business decisions that it made early on for the development of this game. Yes the game has been buggy, but things like that happen and they are working to resolve them.

I ask you this, have you the player tried to play within the mechanics of the game? It can be done and it is fun. One of the things that drew me to this game is the fact that the choices you made during game play were irrivocable and had rewards or consequenses based on your choice. In my mind that meant everything from the character creation to the skill tree, companion skills, to the conversational options.

I wish they had implemented more choices ie: no I don't want T7 to join me, how about a different character (one of the Twileks from the camp for example)

I hate the fact that many people compare this to WoW and threaten to go back to it. If you are going to go GO! You left that game for a reason.

I look at Galaxies. I started to play that game when it originally came out. It was fun and exciting, and challenging to manage the skill tree. After a couple of months I could not play any more due to commitments. I went back 5 years later and the mechanics had changed so much, I barely recognized the game. Man did it suck. And where were all the little whiners that wanted the changes? no where.

Last thing I want to see is SWTOR devolopers bow to the wim of these whiners just to have the game they want, then leave it in a pile of rubble that they made saying "Meh this is like all the rest, I don't want to play any more"

[GOYAFIDO]

Then by all means, find a group of like minded people and don't use that feature. Meanwhile, I will enjoy having a smooth levelling experience as a dd and some added group functionality as a tank/healer on most of my characters.

 

In fact, I wouldn't mind having an optional advanced class respec available, but that would be pushing it and nobody realistically expects anything like it in the near future.

 

Imo, the only people with any integrity in their "dual spec=no" position are the people who use their points once EVER and don't EVER respec.

 

Everyone else is arguing about convenience.

[Abye]

After Rift SWTOR pushes the mmo-class-design back to 2003. Rift's classsystem was an eye-opener. Within my playing group we kept switching between roles as the mood fit. What drove me out was the lackluster endgame content for 5 man groups but the soul system was excellent.

[LifeOfMessiah]

Title says it all.

What do you think the pros/cons of such a system would be?

 

I for one, am not having too much fun, spending 100k everytime I want to switch from PvP to PvE spec. I'm being carroted into playing in one style of play, yet the game has many to offer.

 

This begs the question as to when BioWare raises the level cap, how the skill trees will advance, because the way I see it, certain classes would be overpowering if they we able to dual spec, like Sentinel. I am currently Focus Spec, which is already pretty powerful. If I were to add the watchman spec to the list, I would be virtually unstoppable.

Edited February 29, 2012 by LifeOfMessiah

[Ganjiang]

This begs the question as to when BioWare raises the level cap, how the skill trees will advance, because the way I see it, certain classes would be overpowering if they we able to dual spec, like Sentinel. I am currently Focus Spec, which is already pretty powerful. If I were to add the watchman spec to the list, I would be virtually unstoppable.

 

Classes would function exactly as they do now. Having a dual-spec is just being able to have two seperate talent point/hotkey configurations, pretty much which are independent of eachother. For example, you could be specced Focus AND Watchman, but not both at the same time. You could even have two Focus specs if you really wanted to. Ideally, you would be able to switch specs free of charge, without going to the respec trainer, and only out of combat.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Ganjiang

[LifeOfMessiah]

Classes would function exactly as they do now. Having a dual-spec is just being able to have two seperate talent point/hotkey configurations, pretty much which are independent of eachother. For example, you could be specced Focus AND Watchman, but not both at the same time. You could even have two Focus specs if you really wanted to. Ideally, you would be able to switch specs free of charge, without going to the respec trainer, and only out of combat.

 

that wouldn't be too bad of an idea. they could tie each tree to the form mainly associated with it ie, tie the Shi-Cho form to Focus, ataru form to combat, and Juyo form to watchman, then just use the form buttons to switch between the specs.

[Ganjiang]

that wouldn't be too bad of an idea. they could tie each tree to the form mainly associated with it ie, tie the Shi-Cho form to Focus, ataru form to combat, and Juyo form to watchman, then just use the form buttons to switch between the specs.

 

I agree that would be a cool idea, but I think it would be too overpowered. The current system isn't designed to handle something like that and not every class utilizes stances. That also brings up the question of how to handle things if both of your specs are of the same tree or if you want to use a different stance for an unrelated tree. I know a lot of vanguards like using Ion Cell for improved durability and Guard even if they aren't shield specced.

[-Fritz-]

Depends on the choices you make. If you're always spamming 1 and the spacebar, then yes identical. That's on you though, not the game.

 

 

this almost made me fall out of my seat laughing at how ridiculously blind-sighted it is.

 

 

ok if i play a Commando as a good guy and go to the quest area i get 3 quests, if i go back to the same area playing as a Vanguard bad guy i get the exact same 3 quests.

 

the only difference was 1 or 2 lines of speech and then it went right back to the same scripted event.

 

 

 

 

the whole LIGHT / DARK thing is about stupid in the game though without it causing faction switching.

 

the reality is if a person was 10,000 light side they would get kicked out of the empire, and if a person was 10,000 dark side they would get kicked out of the republic.

 

without some type of faction switching involved, its just a stupid mechanic that doesnt fit the game that looks like it was directly stolen from mass effect 2.