Dual Spec: Let's Talk about it.

[Elblai]

Really? Your response is to lawyer that statement? I'd grant that they've been anything but consistent with statements regarding dual spec (and other features), but I'm guessing that most people with a rational outlook on things would agree that, in the context of that quote, their intention is to get dual spec added.

 

Yes, I agree that it is their intent. This is not being denied. The reason why I lawyer said statement is because stuff happens. Things get pushed back, priorities change, developers change their minds. CCP told EVE Online users "We want to add Incarna" for two and a half years. Just because the developer wants to doesn't mean it's going to happen.

 

As I've said before, it probably will happen. But I don't count chickens before they hatch.

[Jedi_Wannabe]

While levelling, many dps would either choose a 2nd dps spec, or a tank/healer spec. They may not be experts at it, but it gives them the OPTION of tanking for the heroic quests that are scattered across the galaxy while levelling. With tanks and healers able to dps, and dps able to tank (if they so choose), getting groups for EVERYTHING would be easier for EVERYONE.

 

I've been doing this already without using Dual Spec ever changing spec at all.

 

Leveled up a Combat medic specced purely for healing, not PvP or DPS, and was still able to do plenty of damage in groups that already had healers.

 

Leveling up 2 Jedi Guardians, one Purely Tank Spec, the other purely DPS spec. The DPS can tank just fine in groups by changing to Tank stance and swapping to a shield off hand, and the Tank can DPS just fine by switching to DPS stance and switching to power generator off hand.

 

So far I've encountered nothing in the leveling process, or in normal mode flashpoints, that is difficult enough to warrant Dual Spec. If the leveling was that difficult, it would more than likely cause BW to make leveling easier rather than allow Dual Spec before level 50.

 

If hard mode operations require someone to switch roles, and be very specialized in both roles, players still have the option that WoW players had before Dual Spec, have the rest of the guild chip in to pay for it. So, Dual Spec still isn't needed.

[Jedi_Wannabe]

Because making it easier devalues the choice, which devalues the gameplay.

 

I agree.

[FlacidDonkeyGuy]

Considering all the work put in to make 8 seperate campaigns with 16 voice over's, and the legacy system. I think you owe it to yourself to at least get another two level 50's up and running, to meet all your playstyle needs for you & your guild.

Not to mention crafting skills too, the game needs a guild bank (before dual spec, macros & add-ons or "look WOWtoo" as I see it). And to sort out the performance issues ppl are having & bugged quests and such should take to the fore, I mean gosh this game has been out for such a long time now.

Edited January 11, 2012 by FlacidDonkeyGuy

[Jedi_Wannabe]

Really? Your response is to lawyer that statement? I'd grant that they've been anything but consistent with statements regarding dual spec (and other features), but I'm guessing that most people with a rational outlook on things would agree that, in the context of that quote, their intention is to get dual spec added.

 

I agree. From just that one statement it does seem like they intended to add Dual Spec. However, there were other statements, some far more recent, which suggest that it isn't on their list of things to do. Someone in this forum posted a quote from last month for example.

 

Also, even if they had promised during beta that Dual Spec would be added someday, that's no guarantee that it will ever get added. There needs to be a better reason to spend resources on a feature other than "well, one time we said we'd add this."

 

Edit: Found a quote from april on DarthHater

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/18679-devtracker-highlights-for-the-week-of-april-28?page=2

 

"At this point, it seems not necessary for us, but we're not opposed to add it at a later point / patch should we feel that the game would benefit from it."

 

Doesn't sound like it's implying "We promise to add this feature."

 

In true developer fashion they neither confirm nor deny that it will ever be added. So, if we want this feature, we need to convince BioWare that "the game would benefit from it."

Edited January 11, 2012 by Jedi_Wannabe

[Puttolol]

Gotta love how people want an already dumbed down game to get dumbed down even further.

 

100k is not much at all, go do some dailies or something.

[restartwise]

OK MY IDEA IS:

light side new races: jar jar race and ewoks

Dark side new races: androids and little black people with hoodies( jawes or some thing like that, sorry i forgot there name. THEY LIVE ON THAT DESERT PLANET.)

 

pvp: space battle

 

POD RACING: POD RACING FOR COOL STUFF PLUSS PVP POD RACING!

 

:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Varghjerta]

I agree. From just that one statement it does seem like they intended to add Dual Spec. However, there were other statements, some far more recent, which suggest that it isn't on their list of things to do. Someone in this forum posted a quote from last month for example.

 

Also, even if they had promised during beta that Dual Spec would be added someday, that's no guarantee that it will ever get added. There needs to be a better reason to spend resources on a feature other than "well, one time we said we'd add this."

 

Edit: Found a quote from april on DarthHater

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/18679-devtracker-highlights-for-the-week-of-april-28?page=2

 

"At this point, it seems not necessary for us, but we're not opposed to add it at a later point / patch should we feel that the game would benefit from it."

 

Doesn't sound like it's implying "We promise to add this feature."

 

In true developer fashion they neither confirm nor deny that it will ever be added. So, if we want this feature, we need to convince BioWare that "the game would benefit from it."

 

Will repost everything that been talked about on dual specc

Dual Speccing is something we want to add soon after launch. Also, features like Guard, PvP Taunt, Resolve, etc. work to narrow the gap between PvP and PvE specialized skills (i.e. a +Block skill would be helpful in both PvE and PvP).

 

that is the whole sentence and that is around 7-10 months old but that aswell doesnt say that they will implement it into the game.

and then we have this from about the same time

 

 

Georg Zoeller

Seems obvious that he avoided the question, probably because they won't have dual spec at release.

 

I think the translation makes it sound like I'm avoiding something there, which isn't the case.

 

First, we fully understand why dual spec is a popular topic.

 

Currently, we do not see the need to allow for dual spec at release. It's something that we'll definitely monitor over time, but we do think there is enough flexibility in the class system to keep people occupied well past launch.

 

 

 

Georg Zoeller clears up any confusion about changing skill trees within an Advanced Class and the ability to have two different specs simultaneously.

 

Georg Zoeller

What it doesn't say is "you can longer pay to reset your tree points and re-do them",which being able to was confirmed a long time ago.

 

Correct. The ability to respec your skill point distribution is still in the game.

 

Summary, since this is a confusing topic:

 

You can change your skill point distribution by paying credits at a vendor on your capital world. That has not changed.

 

You may or may not be able to change your Advanced Class, we haven't decided on this one yet. If you can, the cost would be significant. That has not changed.

 

There is currently no plan to add dual spec (the ability to swap almost instantly between two skill point configurations) for launch. At this point, it seems not necessary for us, but we're not opposed to add it at a later point / patch should we feel that the game would benefit from it.

 

Hope that helps.

 

then we have the latest update from Stephen Reid from now in December

 

Q: do you think that alternative specs will be allowed at some stage in the future? Also, legacy system, any further insight you are willing to share with us at this point in time?

 

Dual specs could well come at some point in the future - it's been discussed for sure. Legacy System... will be cool?

But still where in those posts above do you actually see that they are 100% that they WILL implement it?

And still it doesnt stand that they will not implement dual specc either.

 

These are all the information that exists about Dual Specc so as i said there isnt anything 100% concrete how this game will handle and or and if they will implement Dual Specc.

 

And when people are saying that Bioware have promised that they will implement Dual specc they are either misinformed or havent realised that want doesnt mean will

[Laaz]

I can totally see the point people are making about the "flavor" of the game and not wanting dual specs (without spending credits) for different pve rolls. I can't say I agree for pvp versus pve though. I enjoy both very much. I often do both in the same day, usually multiple times. The way the game is now it is prohibitively expensive to experience both to their utmost. I can say for me that I will not create an entirely new character of the exact same class/advanced class. Instead I will not pvp much if at all on some toons, and on others I will not pve much if at all.

 

How is this fun or ok to you guys? It really bothers me to only be able to experience half of the game on half of my characters.

[Areoss]

I enjoy PvE tanking.

 

I dont enjoy PvP tanking, the gameplay style doesn't suit for my gameplay style for PvP.

 

I enjoy DPS PvP. I don't enjoy DPS PvE that much.

 

It's not a question of skill. Or a Question of L2P. Its a question of my personal preference.

 

 

If Dual specing is that much of an issue and its not being put in. Then I'll be PvP more so than not because I can do that all day long. Finding groups for PvE Isn't a regular thing. Healers are hard to come by as it is from my experience.

 

Personally from what I see, most people who are moaning about dual spec are those who are currently DPS only. They don't want to have to step up to the plate and take responsibility.

 

I was in a group yesterday. We were looking for a healer. We had a sorc in the group. I asked if he would mind re specing as a healer so we didnt have to wait any longer than the 45 minutes we already had. He replied "no it costs too much"

 

I offered to pay the full amount. He replied "Nah, I think im going to leave it. This groups not going to happen" and left the group.

 

Its not a case of money. It's the case of people not wanting to step up and actually be helpful.

 

Ever notice though as soon as you advertise for LF Dps. Your whispers get flooded. Mostly from Mercs, operatives or Sorcs who have the full capability of healing, but just dont because they like seeing their big numbers on the enemy.

 

Sure some people don't like healing. Other people just don't want to change from the ZOMG crits they can pull off to stretch their epeen.

 

Most of the DPS Aren't even that good anyway, or are plain ignorant.

 

"Dont put guard on me, healer needs it incase he takes dmg!!11" *runs ahead and knock back AoE. Takes on elite and ignores the weakest mobs*

Edited January 12, 2012 by Areoss

[Kucerakov]

The reason I want dual spec is simple. Me and my best RL friend who plays are both tanks, to be the two tanks for raiding. We don't want to have to set up all of our buttons again every single time we go do a flashpoint together. I'd pay the cost every time if there was an option to simply save my spec profile. It's a hassle. Don't answer that we need to make choices. We do not have to make choices as long as the option to respec is in the game.

 

Dual spec is nothing more and nothing less than a utility to ease the usability of a function that ALREADY exists in the game. Period. Being that I cannot group with the person I most like playing with without a huge hassle, my interest in continuing to play is necessarily diminished. Already I feel a desire to log back in to WoW more frequently for no other reason than because I cannot respec to do a flashpoint real quick as dps with my tank friend.

[Kucerakov]

I say NO to dual spec! and keep respec cost high!

I do not want to have to face guild pressure to have a heal/tank spec!

No dont tell me roll a gunslinger i have a very viable dps commando!

What starts out as optional soon becomes demanded. Rift is prime example. What sounded great with a flexible soul system became you WILL carry a spec for all possible roles or you wont raid!

 

This is absurd. Don't join a raiding guild that places that high a premium on min/maxing and functionality. Bioware: more drivel to ignore right here.

 

Also, what has been said by many people before, is that respeccing already allows this. All of the arguments here are against respeccing. Dual spec is simply making respeccing more convenient. Immersion, really? You might want to petition them to remove ressing. Once you die, that toon is gone. How about fleet pass. Sure it says "A shuttle has been dispatched" but you never see it. Not immersive. Remove please.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Kucerakov

[shaidyn]

I'm against dual spec being added to the game.

 

If someone asks me what I am, I say I'm a tank. That's what my spec is, that's what my gear is, that's what my focus is. I levelled as a tank, and I'll end game as a tank. As soon as you add dual spec, things get diluted. What am I now? A tank/healer/pvper/dps. I'm everything. Am I going to level an alt? Why should I? I can just buy dual spec.

 

I'd much rather have each character have one spec, and that's what he is. This is my healer. This is my tank. This is my pvp toon.

 

Forcing people to level over and over stimulates the economy, promotes grouping, and generally makes the game better. Having a million max level toons sitting around doing nothing is no good.

[Vesperr]

Forcing people to level over and over stimulates the economy, promotes grouping, and generally makes the game better. Having a million max level toons sitting around doing nothing is no good.

 

Forcing - a very noble goal. What you actually afraid of is that someone forces your dd/heal character to switch from dd to healing spec and help the party, when you want to dd...

 

p.s. Toons are leveled to play different class which has different style. Thank good ol' Captain O.

p.p.s. There's always a pressure, be it a guild or a flashpoint. If the demand for tanks and healers is higher than for dd (and it always is), there's nothing you can do, but you have a choice to help yourself by switching spec or you can ignore it and waste your time finding healer/waiting for the next operation.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Vesperr

[exphryl]

I'm against dual spec being added to the game.

 

If someone asks me what I am, I say I'm a tank. That's what my spec is, that's what my gear is, that's what my focus is. I levelled as a tank, and I'll end game as a tank. As soon as you add dual spec, things get diluted. What am I now? A tank/healer/pvper/dps. I'm everything. Am I going to level an alt? Why should I? I can just buy dual spec.

 

I'd much rather have each character have one spec, and that's what he is. This is my healer. This is my tank. This is my pvp toon.

 

Forcing people to level over and over stimulates the economy, promotes grouping, and generally makes the game better. Having a million max level toons sitting around doing nothing is no good.

 

What crazy class you playing that can tank, heal, and dps?

 

OH yeah. That's right, you are just being asinine.

 

You are a tank? Good. You have two specs, PvE Tank, PvP Tank. Move along.

[Warmonk]

Whew, this discussion is never ending. Coming from playing some MMOs that have dual class: RIFT, City of Heroes, WoW. I don't know what exactly the problem with the dual/multi spec is.

 

It seems to cut down on groups having people in their group for their class rather than for the kind of player that person is. I find that a good thing. No one can hold your group hostage because they're a tank, or a healer.

 

I puts a limit on having to deal with players, who act like its my way or the highway and because they're a hard to find class: they're going to "take their ball and go home" and sabotage a run.

 

With dual spec I found people to get more polite in those games because if they started nonsense. They were most likely going to get kicked because there would be a higher chance of getting someone else would play ball and the offending party knew that.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Warmonk

[Vesperr]

Whats the reason for BW not to add dual spec? Does it spoil gameplay when leveling or...?

[Warmonk]

I think it has something to do with diluting the classes. If everyone can have more choices then that removes how special each spec and advanced class is.

 

Sort of like if you buy a red car, but if everyone has a red car then you don't feel special anymore. Even though it's what's under the hood and how that driver uses the car that matters.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Warmonk

[Kallti]

"Bring the player, not the class"

 

This saying is the MMO designers' mantra. Dual spec makes this more of a reality.

 

I personally play games to have fun, it's not fun when I am a Jugg Tank but all my mates need is a DPS to make a group and I don't have 100k lying around.

[Latinkuro]

I think the amount of storylines and time put into it promotes multiple playthroughs.

 

I think the legacy system promotes multiple playthroughs.

 

I think dual specs would go right against the 2 previously mentioned items and not make any sense in this game. Which is interesting for me, because i'm usually for dual specs.

 

your argument is more about AC reset, rather than AC respec, which would have a major impact on storyline, I wonder if it's even feasable as the stories are so different.

 

The OP is not talking about resetting the AC, rather simply having the ability to redistribute (hence the word respec) your points depending on what it is you want to do within your AC.

for example a commando can both be spec'ed to heal or dps.

having a dualspec system would allow you to easilly choose a role without having to empty your creaditbank for it.

 

PS:

people seem to think AC reset and AC respec is the same thing, please get your english understanding under raps before replying.

[Ellintor]

SAY NO TO DUAL SPEC!!!!!

 

To begin the option to dual spec was first seen majorly in WoW, and that didn't even happen until 4-5 years after it's initial release. So DON'T expect it anytime soon, especially since there are more major things that need to be fixed.

 

Second, dual spec f'ed up WoW anyway, and I don't care to see it happen to SWToR EVER.

 

It was a nice idea in thought, and honestly I was all for it when it initially came live, but sadly it hurt a majority of the hybrid healer classes. It did this b/c when it happened every1 that had a heal spec they HAD to make it their dual spec, even if they could do a tank or dps spec.

 

Third, if u choose a spec and u get tired of it roll a new toon, the story line makes it more fun then the normal WoW grind of the annoying alt.

[xephoniphulus]

I just wanted to fix that for you.. There are a lot of cons.. You just seem to ignore them and pretend they aren't there..

 

Dual speccing contradicts the entire premise of having a spec at all.. How about we have no spec and everyone can just do everything.. That is what you are advocating.. How can you see any pro's in that??

 

Dual speccing does not give the developers the ability or make more dynamic raid content.. That is simply wrong.. If anything dual speccing will limit what the developers can do.. It will create an over abundance of specialized characters.. Any group can either have 6 healers or 6 tanks at the press of a button.. Without it, people will simply bring what they need.. Not a bunch of people that can switch back and forth..

 

There is no need to switch between soloing and grouping.. Totally needless.. With companions, people can level as either a tank or a healer and not be handicapped by doing so..

 

Easier?? There is the operative word?? Ever thought of filling those holes with companions?? Bioware did.. Why didn't you?? Can't get much easier than just summoning a different companion..

 

Flexibility during raids?? That isn't flexibility.. That is easy mode!! You have to have the cookie cutter group for each boss don't you?? Right amount of tanks and healers solves everything don't it.. Is there a reason you are not advocating the challenge of doing it with the group you have??

 

Just admit it.. You want easy mode.. Easy mode will ruin this game.. See WOW that has lost about 2 million players in just over a year.. See what easy mode does?? Now people are one shotting the latest raids the first week they are released.. See patch 4.3.. Yes.. Dual speccing helped in this..

 

Players could no longer play as a team.. Nobody was good with their toons.. People had to tell healers how to heal or tanks how to tank.. A typical BC 25 man raid needed 4-6 tanks in it.. Typical WOTLK raid?? Only needed 2 tanks.. Healers didn't change all that much.. But everyone wanted a tank and spank.. Easy mode.. So blizz gave it to them..

 

There is no viable or logical reason to have dual speccing.. That is simply fact.. Whether you choose to accept it or acknowlege it is irrelevent..

 

 

 

Dude!! Do you read these forums at all or just make stuff up as you go along?? Nobody is against the current system as it is now.. Everyone, including me would like the ability to reset my talent trees.. How else are we going to learn all the greatest specs for each class?? But that isn't dual speccing now is it?? You are just blowing smoke.. That is all there is to it.. There is simply nothing to what you are saying..

 

There is a difference between dual speccing and what most people are against.. And resetting your talent tree which is currently in the game.. I can't help you fail to see the difference between the two.. There is nothing to rationalize.. If you really think that what is in the game now is dual speccing.. Then why on earth do you post as an advocate for dual speccing in these forums?? Since we already have it according to you..

 

Hear that everyone!! Problem is solved!! Dual speccing is already in the game.. How about you rationalize that??

 

So much for your pros and cons eh?? Do they apply to the current system as well?? It is after all dual speccing according you..

with no spec it would be star wars galaxies where everyone could play as any role without the trader professions...the trader professions (except structures traders) are already in the game but they dont have the same name like in star wars galaxies which crashed and burned

Edited January 16, 2012 by xephoniphulus

[Bloodmages]

I am for intra AC dual spec. I do not want AC switching I think that might go too far.

 

Players switch specs all the time. A dual spec feature will allow players who often change roles or specs save money and time(increasing quality of life). Players who don't change thier spec might experiment with a 2nd spec perhaps they will find another spec or role more enjoyable than the one they were before.

 

I have a hard time seeing a downside to allow players to have an easier access the the entire class they chose. I think the feature will increase the activity of players doing group content as more players will be able to fulfill different roles.

[dargor-]

There's no such thing as a valid con to dual specs...

 

Only senseless fear. just like with Addons, Dungeon finder and anything else that is progress.

[abhorrentpoet]

implementing dual spec hurts nothing.

 

the arguments otherwise from my understanding are as follows.

makes you heal/dps/tank when you dont want to, it discourages multiple playthroughs and makes your special 'class/spec' less important.

 

there's nothing wrong with claiming to just strictly playing dps or healing or being a tank.

with other mmos i've never once encountered a group that turned me away because i wasn't dual speced or demanded me to do so. no ones going to make you and if they try to you can say no.

and leveling the same class twice would be dreadful and a huge waste of time especially if its because you wanna pvp and raid.

you become much more viable in a raid group when you dual spec and it encourages you to try new things i don't get why this is such a bad thing.

 

i haven't heard one argument about why dual spec is bad that's made me say 'good point' if you really think you can convince me otherwise i implore you to try.

 

 

also its going to be released regardless of what you think so you may as well get used to it.