Petition to Ban Operatives from Queuing Ranked as DPS

[Racter]

It would still be unusable. As someone that has and has had a DPS operative for a long time I support this post. Would also like to see lightning, arsenal, annihilation, merc heals, juggernauts, madness sins, and all three actual tank specs banned from solo queue. Massive waste of a spot, merc heals is pretty much an instant loss, etc. Sorcs exist in solo queue to play bait until we kill at least one other person on the other team, etc.

 

The class balance annoys me in team but its mostly tolerable. Solo makes me want to punch a baby

[Raansu]

Most people in this game really have little idea about balance.

Operative dps being automatically viewed as a waste of a spot on the team, while Assassins are complaining about their Maul can "only" crits 8k and they are being buffed.

Smash newbs still run rampant.

Hybrid PT

Tankasin with super burst

 

Actually you cant even blame the players they are just newb and have no idea and dont give a **** about balance. It's the DEVs who made this game completely crap as it is today (and are percived as crap pvp game among mmo community).

 

DEVs really have no idea and probably dont play their own game.

"ohh so many complain about smash newb-monkeys" -> "Lets nerf Anni and Carnage"

"they say dps operative is really bad"->"I know right, lets buff dps assassins!, oh and buff overload shot just to troll em, and take cover away we are not allowed to have any patch with operative buffs without nerfing something too you know, company policy"

 

Sad but true.

[Sappharan]

What burst and control do you speak of? The burst and control that lets us kill an already half dead target with no cc breaker available? Not many of those targets sitting around in 4v4. The burst and control that is tied to us getting off our opener on an unguarded and unhealed target? Again, only see that in a 4dps arena match and guess who the other team is going to hard switch to the moment you open? The only tournaments we might win would be ones that excluded shadows from competing. You said it yourself, it's not about 1v1 anyway. In full min/max Obroan the only targets I crush with any consistency are sitting on 25-26K health. But then, any geared dps would crush them anyway and most of the ACs would crush them more consistently where as we rely on a string of lucky crits to pull it off.

 

The upper tier of pvp in this game currently is 4v4 arena and we are gimped enough to be a hindrance to our team just for being there. 8v8, world pvp (ha), lowbies and dueling tournaments are just fluff, extra entertainment. BW pointed their top tier pvp in this new direction so now they should look at balancing ACs around this format (4v4).

 

I hate to say it bc it comes off as a flippant l2p comment and I am not trolling you, but try one in solo ranked or even worse, group ranked and then let us know what you think. It is not a pleasant experience.

 

You're absolutely right (no sarcasm). Maybe I do need to spend time on my Operative before I complain about them asking for more durability. I am not asking for a nerf, however. The real answer is buffing, not nerfing (my opinion). The only thing I would like to see changed is to electro-net--I'd just like to be able to Force Camouflage so as not to be pot-shot from range as the net anchors me or kills me as I move, futilely, toward the deadly Commando. Not entirely sure if that'd be a nerf, or just a buff for me. It's just a bit too strong, but I would be okay with it still being that deadly IF, and only if, GbtF is not nerfed.

 

Sidetracked a bit. Back on point.

 

I will develop and gear my Operative (as much as I can and have time for, my main is a Sentinel--Combat spec) and maybe I will agree with you. Even if I don't, thank you for your respectful response.

 

Still, I maintain that MMOs must and do consider 1v1 balance. Striking a harmony between the balance of 1v1 and group synergy is delicate at the best of times. Such a 1v1 balance is necessary, in my view, because no one wants to have no chance against one particular class. That is, no one wants to know he/she is going to lose with near certainty simply because that class is scissor to my rock. Several times already I have seen a ranked match come down to a 1v1 wherein both players had like health remaining. Between the two, I think skill should win out, not class.

 

Anyway, I don't want to see you not have fun. Here's to hoping that you get your wish while still allowing me to cope with the class.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Sappharan

[Raansu]

You're absolutely right (no sarcasm). Maybe I do need to spend time on my Operative before I complain about them asking for more durability. I am not asking for a nerf, however. The real answer is buffing, not nerfing (my opinion). The only thing I would like to see changed is to electro-net--I'd just like to be able to Force Camouflage so as not to be pot-shot from range as the net anchors me or kills me as I move, futilely, toward the deadly Commando. Not entirely sure if that'd be a nerf, or just a buff for me. It's just a bit too strong, but I would be okay with it still being that deadly IF, and only if, GbtF is not nerfed.

 

Sidetracked a bit. Back on point.

 

I will develop and gear my Operative (as much as I can and have time for, my main is a Sentinel--Combat spec) and maybe I will agree with you. Even if I don't, thank you for your respectful response.

 

Still, I maintain that MMOs must and do consider 1v1 balance. Striking a harmony between the balance of 1v1 and group synergy is delicate at the best of times. Such a 1v1 balance is necessary, in my view, because no one wants to have no chance against one particular class. That is, no one wants to know he/she is going to lose with near certainty simply because that class is scissor to my rock. Several times already I have seen a ranked match come down to a 1v1 wherein both players had like health remaining. Between the two, I think skill should win out, not class.

 

Anyway, I don't want to see you not have fun. Here's to hoping that you get your wish while still allowing me to cope with the class.

 

1.) 99% of pvp is team based, so no one really gives a damn about 1v1.

 

2.) Even if they did, scrapper is pure garbage at it. Their burst is inconsistent, and you have to pray your opener crits, and even then its an uphill fight if it does. Scrappers are practically the easiest class to kill and they do not have the consistency in their burst to counter balance the fact that they are extremely squishy. Also, their average crit when min/maxed is 6k. Doesn't even come close to the 8-9k crits assassins get off of both maul and discharge and that class has some decent defensive CD's.

[wollegol]

I´ve put my operative on the shelf, I´ve gotten a lot of grief from other players in the ranked q before the wz even start. It kind of takes the fun out of it but I can understand their complaints.

 

Fortunately I like to play a different variety off classes so it´s not that big of a deal for me, but I would like to play my operative in the team q and be competitive but that´s just out of the question.

[Lucastaylor]

To be honest I use the operative (and sniper) as my DPS class in PvP and I tend to find I last longer than my team mates and no its not because I run away, its because I am not stupid. Operatives in my opinion do not need to be banned from PvP that's just as stupid as jumping in a sarlaac pit, I've met some stupid people on TOR PvP in my time here playing all different classes. The class is only as good as the person behind whether that be PvP or PvE.

[warultima]

To be honest I use the operative (and sniper) as my DPS class in PvP and I tend to find I last longer than my team mates and no its not because I run away, its because I am not stupid. Operatives in my opinion do not need to be banned from PvP that's just as stupid as jumping in a sarlaac pit, I've met some stupid people on TOR PvP in my time here playing all different classes. The class is only as good as the person behind whether that be PvP or PvE.

 

Right, sister. I am sure operative pose just as much threat as a marauder or a hybrid powertech. Ask the PvP community and they will tell you just that... oh wait...

 

Only reason swtor is still surviving with all their idiotic "pvp balance (or lack thereof)" is leveling in this game is very fast. "Rerolling" isnt as problematic as other games when the players unfortunately chose a wrong class. Thats why I also have a marauder in partial oberan as well as a powertech and sorc in full conqueror. I quit the game because PvP has became very unchallenging due to some of my classes that I play being too good. Yes I quit the game because I feel my toon was too good. I came back and found out that my marauder is just as good and my PT (switched from pyro to AP hybrid) is also very powerful if not as OP as Pyrotech once was, I decided to give my operative a go. And got him Min/Maxed conqueror with some oberon mix and just to find out that no matter how good you are, your player capability is limited by the class itself.

 

I dont have fun playing my marauder/PT because theres very little challenge in game unless I met other people playing THE SAME CLASSES as I play (not including dps operative and mercs). I dont want to be OP, it earns no respect, yet after extensively playing concealment operative after playing deception sin/mara and PT and sith sorc, I realize how stupid this game's PvP balance is. And it's not going to change anytime soon, there are simply too many stupid people constantly buying their gamble boxes that this game is still alive.

 

Sorry EA, you aint making my dollars tho, good thing you have plenty of blind following brain dead fainbois thats help you keeping this game running.

 

Keep buffing Assassins/Shadows as well as marauders/sentinels, they are so underpowered rightnow. Buff them and you can sell even more cash fluff items too. Do it... GG EA.

Edited November 16, 2013 by warultima

[JP_Legatus]

Agreed w/ this petition, as well we should ban anyone who isn't an operative healer or PT hybrid from playing rateds at all.

[Vikassi]

i always get grief in ranked, but i dont really care .. i play the class, its my only toon ..

[Racter]

How did this fall off the front page? ~25 rage tells in 40 games as concealment, I'm sure those ~100 people are pissed off that people can queue as DPS Ops! Ban them now!

[CJAShadow]

The Dps portions of the class need help:

 

Make Scrapper opener autocrit: Its the only way a Scrapper actually produces pressure. I have had times where I don't crit on my opener nor my next 2 big attacks and I just give up on trying to kill that player and just become a support class.

 

Comparison to other classes: Shadows will be getting increased burst damage to complement their versatility (taunting) and mid range/close range abilities. Smash monkeys autocrit.... in an AOE. Ranged classes have an easier time focus targetting low HP characters and can have decent burst when they chose to.

 

People know that they just need to survive a couple seconds against a scrapper and the scrapper is really not a threat. If that crit does not go off then you arent even a threat for those seconds.

 

Give Scrappers and Dirty Fighting spec AOE reduction: The class is a focused melee burst dps class, yet healers and fragile dps can hide inside AOE chaos and we cant do anything to them. Dirty FIghting can choose its target, but must get pretty close to really do any sustained dps or burst. We either melt from our medium armor, weak defensive cooldowns, and easily countered escape move, or we have to sit around in stealth outside of the blast radius to actually do anything of value.

 

Comparison to other classes: Smash monkeys get a 30% reduction, Shadows have overall better defensive cooldowns and escapes. Ranged classes stay out of the AOE areas, but have cooldowns to help them get out and will contribute when they are out of the AOEs. Scrappers get shafted the most by this. Dirty Fighting can still contribute from range, its just terrible beyond 10m.

 

Bioware I think is aware of this, as they did try to beef up our defensive cooldowns with set bonuses. Defense screen on 2 set bonus for healers is a little bit of a boost. Healers did not need this, but the other 2 specs do and I use it for every spec. Dodge is good but the extra second is not really worth much.

 

Dodge will cleanse and protect you from all movement impairing debuffs This one I have not tested but I believe dodge just cleanses you, and a debuff can be applied right after dodge as been used.

 

Comparison to other classes: While scoundrels do have a couple long range abilities, this is really not about chasing someone down that is running from us as tendon shot has a low duration/range, its about getting out of a bad situation. Commandoes, gunslingers, shadows all have moves that protect them from movement debuffs.

 

Make underworld trading heal uninterruptable after a scamper except by knockback/stun for Scrappers and DIrty Fighters I think Bioware believes that self heals are a form of defensive cooldowns for dps. Problem is that Underworld Trading has a crazy long cast bar for dps scoundrels and cant be used in a pinch since its unreliable. It get interrupted by anyone that at least has interrupt on their skill bars and has the reaction speed of my grandma...

Edited November 21, 2013 by CJAShadow

[Makavelithug]

i always get grief in ranked, but i dont really care .. i play the class, its my only toon ..

 

^

 

That my attitude, pay my sub then you can tell me what to play bro.

 

Also don't call me bro, brother.

[Endel]

The Dps portions of the class need help:

 

Make Scrapper opener autocrit: Its the only way a Scrapper actually produces pressure. I have had times where I don't crit on my opener nor my next 2 big attacks and I just give up on trying to kill that player and just become a support class.

 

Comparison to other classes: Shadows will be getting increased burst damage to complement their versatility (taunting) and mid range/close range abilities. Smash monkeys autocrit.... in an AOE. Ranged classes have an easier time focus targetting low HP characters and can have decent burst when they chose to.

 

People know that they just need to survive a couple seconds against a scrapper and the scrapper is really not a threat. If that crit does not go off then you arent even a threat for those seconds.

 

Give Scrappers and Dirty Fighting spec AOE reduction: The class is a focused melee burst dps class, yet healers and fragile dps can hide inside AOE chaos and we cant do anything to them. Dirty FIghting can choose its target, but must get pretty close to really do any sustained dps or burst. We either melt from our medium armor, weak defensive cooldowns, and easily countered escape move, or we have to sit around in stealth outside of the blast radius to actually do anything of value.

 

Comparison to other classes: Smash monkeys get a 30% reduction, Shadows have overall better defensive cooldowns and escapes. Ranged classes stay out of the AOE areas, but have cooldowns to help them get out and will contribute when they are out of the AOEs. Scrappers get shafted the most by this. Dirty Fighting can still contribute from range, its just terrible beyond 10m.

 

Bioware I think is aware of this, as they did try to beef up our defensive cooldowns with set bonuses. Defense screen on 2 set bonus for healers is a little bit of a boost. Healers did not need this, but the other 2 specs do and I use it for every spec. Dodge is good but the extra second is not really worth much.

 

Dodge will cleanse and protect you from all movement impairing debuffs This one I have not tested but I believe dodge just cleanses you, and a debuff can be applied right after dodge as been used.

 

Comparison to other classes: While scoundrels do have a couple long range abilities, this is really not about chasing someone down that is running from us as tendon shot has a low duration/range, its about getting out of a bad situation. Commandoes, gunslingers, shadows all have moves that protect them from movement debuffs.

 

Make underworld trading heal uninterruptable after a scamper except by knockback/stun for Scrappers and DIrty Fighters I think Bioware believes that self heals are a form of defensive cooldowns for dps. Problem is that Underworld Trading has a crazy long cast bar for dps scoundrels and cant be used in a pinch since its unreliable. It get interrupted by anyone that at least has interrupt on their skill bars and has the reaction speed of my grandma...

 

Here is an ongoing thread where Eric Musco asks for a brainstroming discussion on how to give DPS Operative some love. You may want to post your suggestions there.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=693345

 

At least there is finally some light at the end of the tunnel and we (DPS Operatives/Scoundrels) can live in hope that in near future our beloved stealthers will be placed at least on level with other classes.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Endel

[Wainamoinen]

At least there is finally some light at the end of the tunnel and we (DPS Operatives/Scoundrels) can live in hope that ...

 

... the oncoming train will put us out of our misery?

 

 

Yes, I know it's whiny and I hate that, but I smiled when I thought of it. So ner.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Wainamoinen

[Racter]

... the oncoming train will put us out of our misery?

 

 

Yes, I know it's whiny and I hate that, but iI smiled when I thought of it. So ner.

 

That was my exact thought lol

 

We asked these questions before. Bioware told us no 30% aoe damage reduction and our mediocre unreliable burst was a play style ROFL

 

DONT WORRY BROS THEY BUFFED QUICKSHOT

[Endel]

... the oncoming train will put us out of our misery?

 

Yes, I know it's whiny and I hate that, but iI smiled when I thought of it. So ner.

 

You did make me laugh

 

Anyway i really hope something will be done about DPS OP/Scoundrel or...well i was invited for the ESO beta which looks like it will have great PvP side so if nothing is done to our class i know where i'm going next (i think i will go there anyway).

[Haystak]

That was my exact thought lol

 

 

DONT WORRY BROS THEY BUFFED QUICKSHOT

 

Awww yeah, quickshot, dats what scrappers are missing! Screw shoot first and invisibility, my *** is rolling and quickshotting on cooldown. Which is forevah cause they have no cooldowns, gon be sweet.

 

 

Joking aside(and not related to the quoted statement)

Costly filler attacks have no room in the scrapper rotation, even after that buff its still an attack where your like......hmmm flurry of bolts right now or an ability that will hit for ****, and keep me below the top tier of energy regen for another 2gcds........decisions decisions.

 

Also if you go through a few of the stickies, and a few of the older topics, the "brainstorming" threads arent a new idea. We have been giving out ideas for 6 months now, and of those ideas, we get quickshot.

 

The class is balanced for pve, and right now scoundrels do ....okay which is why we havent seen any changes. The pvp population is dwindling fast, and the less people it has the less of a reason bw has to balance it.

 

I know of only 2 other people who play dps scoundrels/operatives in the game right now, Im guessing there are like 30 left. You dont balance an MMO over 30 people.

 

This ban should go into effect. For the betterment of society as a whole. Think of the children, and do what you think is right.

 

Smash spec for president 2016

Edited November 21, 2013 by Haystak

[Cordorian]

Awww yeah, quickshot, dats what scrappers are missing! Screw shoot first and invisibility, my *** is rolling and quickshotting on cooldown. Which is forevah cause they have no cooldowns, gon be sweet.

 

 

Joking aside(and not related to the quoted statement)

Costly filler attacks have no room in the scrapper rotation, even after that buff its still an attack where your like......hmmm flurry of bolts right now or an ability that will hit for ****, and keep me below the top tier of energy regen for another 2gcds........decisions decisions.

 

Also if you go through a few of the stickies, and a few of the older topics, the "brainstorming" threads arent a new idea. We have been giving out ideas for 6 months now, and of those ideas, we get quickshot.

 

The class is balanced for pve, and right now scoundrels do ....okay which is why we havent seen any changes. The pvp population is dwindling fast, and the less people it has the less of a reason bw has to balance it.

 

I know of only 2 other people who play dps scoundrels/operatives in the game right now, Im guessing there are like 30 left. You dont balance an MMO over 30 people.

 

This ban should go into effect. For the betterment of society as a whole. Think of the children, and do what you think is right.

 

Smash spec for president 2016

 

30 might be mildly accurated, i really play mine anymore, and when definitely not in concealment anymore, and i know a friend that dusted his as well. The original reply we got from the dev for me was the final sign, they don't know what to do with the class and the spec in particular and yeah you can brainstorm as much as you want they probably won't change anything significant (for the good i mean), for those few people still playing the spec in pvp.

 

The only reason to leave it in the game at all, is give scoundrel and operative healers a chance to feel mortal from time to time

[wollegol]

30 might be mildly accurated, i really play mine anymore, and when definitely not in concealment anymore, and i know a friend that dusted his as well. The original reply we got from the dev for me was the final sign, they don't know what to do with the class and the spec in particular and yeah you can brainstorm as much as you want they probably won't change anything significant (for the good i mean), for those few people still playing the spec in pvp.

 

The only reason to leave it in the game at all, is give scoundrel and operative healers a chance to feel mortal from time to time

 

+1 I think they realized that nobody plays pvp op dps anymore so lets leave it alone. They only risk making it OP and then there will be a massive QQ from the other thousands of players. They did some more changes on the assassin in the latest patchnotes for PTR but didn't do anything on the operative. That's a sign that they will leave it to the change in overload shot and do no more changes. So you people in solo q, you will have to complain for at least 3 more months before anything is being done.

 

Maybe the answer is that as many as possible roll an operative dps and join solo q? Then all the other classes will complain so much that bioware have to make a change.

[Cordorian]

+1 I think they realized that nobody plays pvp op dps anymore so lets leave it alone. They only risk making it OP and then there will be a massive QQ from the other thousands of players. They did some more changes on the assassin in the latest patchnotes for PTR but didn't do anything on the operative. That's a sign that they will leave it to the change in overload shot and do no more changes. So you people in solo q, you will have to complain for at least 3 more months before anything is being done.

 

Maybe the answer is that as many as possible roll an operative dps and join solo q? Then all the other classes will complain so much that bioware have to make a change.

 

 

You mean whole teams of Operatives stun locking people into unsub

[Technohic]

I will say that I did see a hybrid op that was more DPS running with a premade in regs and it seemed to work when they had another operative healer, a jug tank and a sin DPS. Just enough to cross heal when needed yet still add to DPS. Not sure that would work in ranked, but it worked in regs. Then again, against PUGs I think most things work.

 

Would really like them to do something better for op/scoundrel DPS here as I would like to get mine out, but I don't think they have spoken up at all in the brain storming threads even, so it's probably still a long way off.

[Zoom_VI]

I will say that I did see a hybrid op that was more DPS running with a premade in regs and it seemed to work when they had another operative healer, a jug tank and a sin DPS. Just enough to cross heal when needed yet still add to DPS. Not sure that would work in ranked, but it worked in regs. Then again, against PUGs I think most things work.

 

Would really like them to do something better for op/scoundrel DPS here as I would like to get mine out, but I don't think they have spoken up at all in the brain storming threads even, so it's probably still a long way off.

 

I don't think you could ever pull off a hybrid with operatives, the mechanics would compete against each other for upper hands.

[Technohic]

I don't think you could ever pull off a hybrid with operatives, the mechanics would compete against each other for upper hands.

 

Yeah. I'm not sure how it works, but I've seen it. Think they are going with leth/df. I'm going to look to see if there is something out about it.

 

EDIT: At any rate; I don't think it is truly viable any more than concealment/scrapper is in higher levels of play. But if you are premading against PUGs and you have that extra off heal...well; PUGs gonna PUG.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Technohic

[Haystak]

Yeah. I'm not sure how it works, but I've seen it. Think they are going with leth/df. I'm going to look to see if there is something out about it.

 

DF has always been a dot hot spec kinda toon, free kolto injection, and speccing into free UH when castin UM. Meanwhile you can throw two instant cast dots

[Technohic]

DF has always been a dot hot spec kinda toon, free kolto injection, and speccing into free UH when castin UM. Meanwhile you can throw two instant cast dots

 

So it does exist? How well does it work?

 

LOL just played with a calculator. Looks like you sacrifice some damage for heals, but you also get ways to build upper hand without getting in an enemies face. This looks like FUN! I'm going to play around with it.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Technohic