Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Everyone has heard about the "heal to full" and learn to play response from the combat team when answering the Sorc questions on friday. I would say over 20 different threads have been created about this, a

, a ton of memes and various other dubbed up videos and content around the web. Needless to say the community has not taken the devs response to those questions very well.

 

So why are people upset? Lets start off here and here, The sniper and Marauder Questions.

 

First off all these questions were actually answered and only one of them had a condesending tone to it which that question in mind deserved to be poked at. (The one asking why the best AOE spec is not the best single target spec)

It was clear that these answers took some time to write up and the combat team seemed to understand the players concerns and even went as far as saying its something they will look into.

 

Then comes the Sorc and powertech Questions.

 

You can clearly tell these were all written by one person and most likely done while in the bathroom. Seriously though, these answers look like they were not done to the quaility of the other ones. They all have a condensending tone to them, many of the answers insult players on their concerns and how they play their class or just say that your concern is not a valid. Overall just insulting and a complete waste of time. Glad this class rep system has worked out so well. (BTW two class reps have already quit the game :D)

 

To those of us that have been part of the community for awhile know who wrote this post and its not the first time he's done something like this. Why is he allowed to talk to the community like this? Its unacceptable.

 

Addtionally we find out that there will be no further class balance 2.4 and we have to wait till 2.5 or 2.6 which 2.5 will come out either Jan or Feb so thats at minimum 2 months of unbalanced areana gameplay for people to look forward to if not longer. They even say they know the classes are not balanced but decide its fine to leave them like that. Why? Last patch to actually have class balance was makeb and that is coming up on 5 months ago and by the time we see some mass class balance it could be 7 or 9 months (Same amount of time it takes for pvp content LOL).

Why does it take so long to come out with any kind of class balance? When this game came out they were doing it every other week, sure they had lots of staff but even smaller game companys do class balance at least monthly. Which leads to the question of what our sub dollars actually do? What are we paying the class balance team if updates from them take this long? Shouldn't they just contract the position out if balance only happens once or twice a year?

 

As it stands a couple of AC's will not be having much fun in arenas when it comes out and the fact they have to wait months for even a chance at class balance is insulting. All specs, all classes should be viable options to take into arenas.

 

One more insulting stance from bioware.

 

"The reason why there is not as much PvP content as PvE content is, that PvE always need new content to clear, while PvPers are generally happy, "as long as there is someone to kill"." I want to make it clear that is not an official post from bioware but is along the lines of what they said at the german cantina tour. So basically we don't make new pvp content cause pvp players are happy playing the same warzone over and over again :(

 

I just want to know what you guys think bioware is going to do about all this? Clearly allot of people are not happy and have turned much of this into a complete joke. I'm sure we will be seeing some yellow text about this on Monday, this is honestly too big for them to ignore.

 

May the Force be with you and don't forget to heal to full !

Edited by HoboWithAStick
  • Replies 399
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted (edited)
You say its "too big to ignore" but that's mostly likely what they'll do. I used to be a fan of this game, but then they pull this. I don't know what's going on over at those bioware offices, but I don't like it. Edited by norlof
Posted
You say its "too big to ignore" but that's mostly likely what they'll do. I used to be a fan of this game, but then they pull this. I don't know what's going on over at those bioware offices, but I don't like it.

 

I agree, its like no one is in charge there right now. Maybe some more layoffs or role changes?

Posted

I just read through the majority of the links. I don't see their answers as being particularly condescending myself. In fact, I was impressed by the depth of knowledge expressed by both the questions and the answers. The questions were deeply technical and asked by people who have an obviously in-depth knowledge of game specifics.

 

Which means the vast majority of players have no idea what either side is talking about, so the chances these kinds of things can be ignored in favor of such deeply vexing questions as the proper shade of "blood red" in crystals or the proper size of the new mounts is pretty high.

Posted (edited)

Bioware being condescending and detached from its community? Imossibu!

 

One of the devs that thought it was cute and funny to talk down to the community and really piss off a bunch of fans of the game got his *** fired last year. So I am still happy over that. Lets hope Bioware isn't repeating its mistakes.

Edited by Vinak
Posted

As a tip, don't read text from the internet condescendingly in your head. It's not hard to imagine the other parts of human communication that aren't present in text when you don't try to keep it fairly neutral as you read. Why would they be condescending in answering questions anyways? Because they hate players? Please.

 

"The reason why there is not as much PvP content as PvE content is, that PvE always need new content to clear, while PvPers are generally happy, "as long as there is someone to kill"." I want to make it clear that is not an official post from bioware but is along the lines of what they said at the german cantina tour. So basically we don't make new pvp content cause pvp players are happy playing the same warzone over and over again

 

As I've said elsewhere, duh. This is not even remotely the first time they, or any MMO developer, has said that. It's a fact of game design: PvE is static and needs new content regularly to keep interest, while PvP is dynamic and is mostly left up to the players to create the gameplay. Look at any other similar MMO and you'll see the exact same thing.

 

Whatever, If I were them I'd completely ignore the forums and the entirety of the very vocal minority that lives here. For some reason they keep trying to "create a dialogue" instead of just banning people. I don't understand it.

Posted (edited)

i have a lot of mixed feelings about this, but this reminds me a lot about the 'stunlocking operatives' comment from last year, which i think was taken a little out of context and blown out of proportion at the time.

 

and i think there's a little blame to go around.

 

on the one hand, i think the sorc questions were asking for specific 'please fix us' things, and the vanguard questions were quite difficult to read or understand fully (as the nicest way i think i can put it).

 

that said, i feel the devs should have read between the lines a bit and met with players halfway with their responses. they had two weeks to do this, and it seems that the answers were done in a few minutes.

i don't think they should have lied and 'said what they wanted us to hear', but if the perceptions of the players (as listed in the questions) don't line up with that of the developers, that's not a problem; it's just a difference in perception. rather than placing the blame on the players, they should have merely explained that difference in perception.

 

i'm also deeply worried about the heal to full comment (though not in the way many people are i suppose). it seems to me that they're implying, that since sorcs can heal themselves, and that the self-healing is worth more than sniper bubbles and other defensive cooldowns, they therefore will inherently do less damage. basically, it seems to me that they have an intentional hybrid tax on sorcs' dps because they can heal.

i think there's some room for interpretation with that response, but we're all in the dark about when/if they will clarify that statement. honestly though, if that is the case, i would rather have all my healing skills tied to the healing trees if that's what needed for dps sages/scoundrels/commandos to do more damage, and i'm not even sure how that would apply to vanguard/guardian/shadow dps.

 

 

but i think everything will balance out eventually. people rarely complain about the stunlocking operatives comment anymore, and people who are leaving the game over 'heal to full', etc. were probably wanting to leave anyway, and this was just the 'last straw'

lots of other people i think will bounce back when balance changes pass around again (i would hope it was sooner rather than later, but here we are). there were some goofs with the balance changes in 2.0, but i'd rate it as mostly successful in terms of what it hoped to accomplish.

and you know, the first round of questions were great (granted two of the most op classes in the game), so the next round might redeem them a bit.

Edited by oaceen
Posted
Honestly, as most all of us have done since the beginning I'm just going to roll with it. Nothing in their response to any question was a surprise at all....AT...ALL. The only response that bothers me is pushing Arena live with 2.4 when they acknowledge balance issues that will not be addressed for MONTHS after 2.4. To be honest I'm not sure which decision will prove to be a bigger fail when we look back down the road...the ignoring of class balance untill several patches AFTER 2.4 or James Ohlen's directorial decision to not include a LFG finder at launch because "we don't need it" and "even without cross servers it will just hurt the community" then later trying to imply the only reason we didn't have it at launch was they ran out of time.....only time will tell I guess...
Posted

Well..my main is a PT so I know full well WE ALL have a perception problem. Once they cracked the case and revealed the problem was my perception, the next step was all about solutions. You simply have 3 choices not in any particular order of epic win..

 

1.) L2P

 

2.) make them pay for trying to kill you..

 

3.) Heal to full....

 

That is all...mind blown?..it should be...

Posted

I don't see what is wrong with BW's answers. People keep quoting the "heal to full", but that seemed like a reasonable point to me.

 

And the answer didn't seem condescending or rude. If you ask a question, you may not get the answer you want. BW never promised to agree with the community on everything. It's still their game and they can balance the classes as they think best.

Posted
i have a lot of mixed feelings about this, but this reminds me a lot about the 'stunlocking operatives' comment from last year, which i think was taken a little out of context and blown out of proportion at the time.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one that remembers that. That line was actually kind of funny, though. And a lot more ridiculous.

 

Overall, good response, I feel that too many have been too full of emotion and hyperbole to really give a constructive counter argument.

Posted
I don't see what is wrong with BW's answers. People keep quoting the "heal to full", but that seemed like a reasonable point to me.

 

And the answer didn't seem condescending or rude. If you ask a question, you may not get the answer you want. BW never promised to agree with the community on everything. It's still their game and they can balance the classes as they think best.

 

Only class that is currently broken is Vanguard/Pyro as a dps. While other tank specced class such as Guardian/Jugg, Shadow/Assassin can contribute as dps in ops and pvp aspect while vanguard/pyro dps is non-existant. Dev. failing to acknowledge this issue clearly tells me that they haven't played as a dps vanguard.

It doesn't really bother me since I only use Vanguard as a tank, but It's still hilarious to see "working as intended" response from dev.

Posted (edited)
Honestly, as most all of us have done since the beginning I'm just going to roll with it. Nothing in their response to any question was a surprise at all....AT...ALL.

 

You either roll with it or unsubscribe. If you get 10% of playerbase to unsubscribe because of something Bioware has done, I guarantee they will consider it a real problem.

 

I agree with others the answers to PT questions were lame.

 

edit: sorcerer questions even more so.

Edited by Karkais
Posted
I don't see what is wrong with BW's answers. People keep quoting the "heal to full", but that seemed like a reasonable point to met.

 

Yep, i found the answers very well explained and and i think they are right. Most of the whinning is due L2P. And even if i knew im not a skilled player, i should know that classes like Sages, for example, and by design, are harder to master than a Gunslinger. Or in PvP, Sawbones are easier than Seers but in PvE, Seer shines.

 

People should realize than some classes are easier to play than others. And f you wanna play a Sage DPS, for example, in PvP and you are not good, the problem is not the class itself but you.

Posted (edited)

Im no fanboy. In fact Im usually on the fence regarding Bioware/EA in regards to how they manage this game.

 

But I read the entire thing and I didnt see anything that I would consider rude or condescending or even insulting. In fact I think that they were pretty straight forward, to the point, and honest about their intentions for once and they actually tackled some serious questions this time. Which is kind of amazing to me.

 

As far as the PvP topic I cant comment. I dont PvP so I have no input on it. But as far as the PvE is concerned I think they made some valid points. Im not saying that I agreed or disagreed with what they said but I could see where they were coming from and the points that they made actually made sense.

Edited by Apache
Posted

About the "No PvP content, because they are happy just to kill someone", I think you are interpreting it wrong (perception problem :rak_03: ). If I understood how they meant it, it was that PvP by definition has much lower "decay rate", as every fight can be different. That does not apply to PvE, where there are often only one or two ways how to clear that content, and once you clear it, it is the same...

They did not say "No more PvP content", but that there is greater need to release more PvE content, because it is consumed much faster.

Posted
I don't see what is wrong with BW's answers. People keep quoting the "heal to full", but that seemed like a reasonable point to me.

 

And the answer didn't seem condescending or rude. If you ask a question, you may not get the answer you want. BW never promised to agree with the community on everything. It's still their game and they can balance the classes as they think best.

 

Healing to Full while specced as healer is fine, no one is objecting to that. But, DPS specced Sages/Sorcs have very weak heals that need to be cast or have long cooldowns, which significantly lowers the amount of DPS they can do, thus hitting enrage timers or simply getting gang raped in PvP.

In comparison to other Heal/DPS hybrid classes (Operative/Merc) they have very little in terms of survivability, while not having greater DPS output. People say they would be fine with having glass cannon survivability, if they actually had the damage output of glass cannon.

Posted
Healing to Full while specced as healer is fine, no one is objecting to that. But, DPS specced Sages/Sorcs have very weak heals that need to be cast or have long cooldowns, which significantly lowers the amount of DPS they can do, thus hitting enrage timers or simply getting gang raped in PvP.

 

In all seriousness, there isn't any major issue for healing dps class, it's all about positioning, los, using your cd (force barrier/wave/stun/cc) at the right time to increase your survibility in PvP situation. It is more difficult when you are getting chased my 3 marauders, but it's same for all the other class, when you have multiple opponents, you are going to struggle, even if you are the best PvPers. You might be able to take on 3 at the same time if all those 3ppl who are attacking you are noobs.

My sage dps is on par with gunlsinger so I have no idea why you will be hitting enrage timer unless you have a vanguard dps with you.

 

In comparison to other Heal/DPS hybrid classes (Operative/Merc) they have very little in terms of survivability, while not having greater DPS output. People say they would be fine with having glass cannon survivability, if they actually had the damage output of glass cannon.

 

Operative/Scoundrel have the highest survibility out of all the healing class. My 36k hp scoundrel/Operative never dies in WZ unless I'm targeted by at least 4ppl. Scoundrel have the best burst hl and when your instant hl crits for 6.5k+, shield probe, dodge and scamper. Your HP will rarely go down.

Posted (edited)
Rage in the PVP community.

The funny thing is that people who do PvE complain far more.

 

What happens when you've done your raids and dungeons in a MMO? You complain that you need more, and more, and more. The MMO industry has to churn out raid after raid and dungeon after dungeon and never manages to satisfy its playerbase. Until it gets to the point where many people can't catch up, then you complain that the grind is too hard and too long.

 

PvPers don't have that issue with the game, they just want balance and the ability to enjoy PvP.

 

Hey, a neat new saying is something....heal to full.

 

I could say another.

PVP in MMOs is not PVP.

Here you go, devaluing your own ignorant opinion. Guess what, PvP in MMOs is PvP. Just because your PvP skill level is still at the Call of Duty stage doesn't make what you said any bit true. PvPers have just as much of a right to complain as anyone else, and the fact, is, the PvE community dismisses any valid PvP complaint because "herpderp pvpers are st00pid lulz."

Edited by Glumish
×
×
  • Create New...