Bioware AUSTIN has some PR issues right now.

[mmjarec]

Did anyoen ask questions about fixing broken sins?

[_Zhatan_]

Did anyoen ask questions about fixing broken sins?

 

 

Dude we are not broken, we can quite combat with stealth and...guess?... yes!!! HEAL TO FULL! So expect future nerf to stealth in 2.5 or 2.6.

 

slow clap for Bioware's balance team work, with Assasin tanks.

[mmjarec]

Dude we are not broken, we can quite combat with stealth and...guess?... yes!!! HEAL TO FULL! So expect future nerf to stealth in 2.5 or 2.6.

 

slow clap for Bioware's balance team work, with Assasin tanks.

 

I dont consider exploits or bugs class balance.

 

Something that is out of combat By NAME doesnt effect combst ability thus no bearing on gimp status. Combat abilities only

[BrianDavion]

I saw nothing condescending in those answers. the heal to full bit translates ultimatly as "even a DPS sorc can heal, that's utility snipers and marauders don't have"

[mmjarec]

I saw nothing condescending in those answers. the heal to full bit translates ultimatly as "even a DPS sorc can heal, that's utility snipers and marauders don't have"

 

Sorcs can heal in combat and its such a weak heal and so force draining in dps spec its pretty worthless when your getting attacked unless its by a sin then its ezmode as any class. Omg they are so balanced cause they occasionally crit for 8k with one stealth opener then drops to shart till they die

[-IceHawk-]

Condescension?

 

I must admit, I also fail to see it.

 

All the Developers did was tell two entire AC communities that they simply do not understand how to play their own classes, are completely out of touch with the reality of how these classes perform, that there is a built in hybrid "tax" so to speak as a core component to their thought processes (despite previous claims otherwise), that they simply do not deserve to and will never be competitive in comparison to the "real" DPS specs, that such comparisons are inherently futile, and that at the end of the day they consider both VG/PTs and Sorc/Sages exactly where they want them and they have absolutely no plans whatsoever to look at either AC going forward.

 

Where is the condescension in that?

 

Now, could we please all go help out the Snipers/Slingers because they are in desperate need of a real offensive CD to address their DPS issues and the developers have finally offered this much broken and deficient class some hope of getting this addressed.

[chuixupu]

Condescension?

 

I must admit, I also fail to see it.

 

All the Developers did was tell two entire AC communities that they simply do not understand how to play their own classes, are completely out of touch with the reality of how these classes perform, that there is a built in hybrid "tax" so to speak as a core component to their thought processes (despite previous claims otherwise), that they simply do not deserve to and will never be competitive in comparison to the "real" DPS specs, that such comparisons are inherently futile, and that at the end of the day they consider both VG/PTs and Sorc/Sages exactly where they want them and they have absolutely no plans whatsoever to look at either AC going forward.

 

Except they didn't say that.

 

Reminds of that recent debacle where Dr. Phil's Twitter asked a question for the next show segment, as they always do, but the question was "Is it OK to sleep with a woman if she is drunk?" The point was "let's think about this subject so we can discuss it on the next show" but instead, there was this huge outrage of people going "OMG Dr. Phil wants to sleep with drunk women, boycott him!!!"

His social media person could have worded the tweet a lot better, like "In our next segment, we discuss whether it's ok to sleep with women if they've been drinking", but of course people just have to jump to the worst possible conclusion without thinking "maybe that's not what he actually meant".

[-IceHawk-]

Actually, the Developers said every single one of those things.

 

There may be a little room for improvement here, though comparing a Sorcerer to a Marauder or Sniper is not exactly a fair comparison. The fact is, Marauders and Snipers cannot heal themselves to full.

 

but knowing when to heal or when to deal damage is part of playing a Sorcerer. Marauders and Snipers definitely have a simplicity advantage over Sorcerers, because they can only fulfill the role of a damage dealer. Therefore, they are easier to play to their full potential than any class that can tank/off-tank or heal/off-heal.

 

due to the fact that most of the Sorcerer’s healing and damaging abilities have an activation time, they may need to be more careful than other classes about using LOS to their own advantage – for a Sorcerer, positioning is extremely important at all times. Sorcerer’s are an “easy to play, hard to master” class, in that most of their abilities are rather straight-forward and easily understood, but getting the most out of those abilities may require a higher skill level than many players are comfortable with.

 

We currently have no plans to add any extra Force management abilities, skills, or mechanics to Corruption or Madness, though we may consider lowering the cost of Static Barrier (but that would likely come at the price of lowering the absorption it provides).

 

Do I really need to post the direct quote of the developers telling the entire VG/PT community that they have a perception problem?

 

Really?

 

These responses amount to, in order:

 

1) Sorcerers are not a DPS class and therefore comparisons are invalid

2) Healing Abilities = Utility = Valid reason for the DPS deficit

3) Primary DPS classes only DPS and therefore they are easier to play to their full potential

4) Sorcerers that understand how to off-heal, position, LOS, would not make these claims.

5) This class, unlike the easy to play ones, is "hard to master," ie: you lack this level atm.

6) You lack mastery because it requires a level of skill many may find "uncomfortable."

7) Sorcerrros have no Force Management issues whatsoever. Period.

8) If we do anything to help Force Management it will incur a Nerf to your primary defensive ability.

Edited August 27, 2013 by -IceHawk-

[-IceHawk-]

I find it interesting that the response to the Sentinels/Marauders about the "ramp up issue" with Annihilation and Carnage specs was not "learn how to properly position yourself," but instead "we understand this needs to be addressed and are looking at it."

 

There is a fundamental difference in both tone and substantive content between Rounds One and Two of these responses.

 

For godsakes, these developers are more concerned with improving Sniper Offensive CDs than they are with even acknowledging Corruption or Madness might have FM issues in PVP!

Edited August 27, 2013 by -IceHawk-

[LordArtemis]

I'm mistaken that I loved the reply???

 

The thing you are failing to understand is that the majority of "PvP" issues, are also the same exact issues PvEers have - resource management, low DPS, lack of survivability, insufficient heals. PvP and PvE CAN both be balanced without detriment to either one. To think otherwise is folly.

 

Please, list some (serious) examples of these changes that PvPers are requesting for THEIR class that would negatively impact PvEers of the same class...I bet you find none.

 

There is no failure to understand, unless you are contending that balance must focus on Arena performance. Then it is actually YOU that is failing to understand IMO.

[LordArtemis]

...also it seems like no one is considering the possibility that the devs are actually right. I note that the uproar seems to be coming mostly from the PVP community...and it seems that is who they are speaking about, at least generally.

 

I'm not saying they are right....I'm saying they might be right, and that might be what is making folks upset.

 

Perhaps they were too honest about the state of the PVP community and it's ability to understand how to properly play classes. It's not that far of a stretch IMO.

[Fellow-Canadian]

Saying Bioware has some PR issues is like saying the titanic is taking on a little water.

[-IceHawk-]

What is more likely?

 

That a population that has been crunching the numbers and producing guides on how to play this class to its maximal potential and posting parses since before Daellia graced the Sorc forums has absolutely no idea how to properly play this class...

 

or that the Combat Team, when faced with the arduous task of finally balancing this AC for the next major PVP content patch suddenly "realized" that the real issue is not balance, but that this community doesn't know what its doing thereby freeing them from the need of trying to balance it?

Edited August 27, 2013 by -IceHawk-

[mmjarec]

Condescension?

 

I must admit, I also fail to see it.

 

All the Developers did was tell two entire AC communities that they simply do not understand how to play their own classes, are completely out of touch with the reality of how these classes perform, that there is a built in hybrid "tax" so to speak as a core component to their thought processes (despite previous claims otherwise), that they simply do not deserve to and will never be competitive in comparison to the "real" DPS specs, that such comparisons are inherently futile, and that at the end of the day they consider both VG/PTs and Sorc/Sages exactly where they want them and they have absolutely no plans whatsoever to look at either AC going forward.

 

Where is the condescension in that?

 

Now, could we please all go help out the Snipers/Slingers because they are in desperate need of a real offensive CD to address their DPS issues and the developers have finally offered this much broken and deficient class some hope of getting this addressed.

 

Snipers habe the highest dps ingame and you want more? Try being an assssin where pure dos spec in either tree is still tousands of points less in a parse vs any other class

[-IceHawk-]

I don't know what game you are playing, but in my SWTOR Snipers really lack a useful and significant Offensive CD and both Annihilation and Carnage are woefully (dare I say unconscionably) inadequate as DPS in PVP and they need major attention.

 

Of course, in my SWTOR, developers who do not play specific ACs know more than the community that does.

Edited August 27, 2013 by -IceHawk-

[LordArtemis]

What is more likely?

 

That a population that has been crunching the numbers and producing guides on how to play this class to its maximal potential and posting parses since before Daellia graced the Sorc forums has absolutely no idea how to properly play this class...

 

or that the Combat Team, when faced with the arduous task of finally balancing this AC for the next major PVP content patch suddenly "realized" that the real issue is not balance, but that this community doesn't know what its doing thereby freeing them from the need of trying to balance it?

 

Or....that the PVP community is too focused on balance when balance is not the intent. Skill is.

 

I'm just pointing out that that is a possibility....it's hard for me to believe that PVP players are NOT looking for utility or balance...it is after all the hallmark of being a modern MMO PVP player.

 

It just seems to me that perhaps they were designed with skill in mind, and PVP players do not like that idea. They want balance and utility, not skill requirements. Generalization naturally.

 

Just my slant.

[chuixupu]

“We don’t see things as they are, we see things as we are”. - Anais Nin

[LordArtemis]

At any rate, I think what is going on is pretty good evidence that this game was not ready for the implementation of Arena.

 

Instead, I think it would have been better to introduce season one (finally, PVP players have waited long enough) and rankings, work on World PVP leader boards and rankings, and tune PVP in a way in which bonuses, buffs and debuffs are applied to provide proper balance and utility for all classes in PVP before Arena was even considered.

 

This had turned into a mosh pit.

[-IceHawk-]

This is an argument that occurs quite a bit.

 

To be frank the only time skill can function as the determining factor in competitive matches is when the ancillary factors (gear, class balance) are maintained within a specific range such that skill becomes the tipping point.

 

To be blunt, there is no difficult to master class in this game, despite Bioware's insistence otherwise.

Want to master a Sorc DPS? Refresh DoTs without clipping, keep your rotation moving non-stop, and do not face tank. Half-decent hand-eye coordination and the ability to check the Buff/Debuff Bars while reviewing your CD timers are the only "skills" that one needs.

 

Also, insofar as the myth of utility.

Sorc's have a bubble that they can share. That is their utility right there. I have never saved someone with a 2.5 sec cast Dark Infusion because they were either already dead or had their own Defensive CD up by the time it went off.

 

I do not know any Sorcs who would not exchange tying DI or DH to a Healing only stance if it meant a real defensive CD for DPS.

 

No, this game is not prepared for a balanced Arena PVP launch.

 

Bioware does not care. Until they hemorrhage net revenue they will do whatever they want to satiate the general population just enough to entice them with the next Cartel Pack.

[BaronV]

I'm mistaken that I loved the reply???

 

The thing you are failing to understand is that the majority of "PvP" issues, are also the same exact issues PvEers have - resource management, low DPS, lack of survivability, insufficient heals. PvP and PvE CAN both be balanced without detriment to either one. To think otherwise is folly.

 

Please, list some (serious) examples of these changes that PvPers are requesting for THEIR class that would negatively impact PvEers of the same class...I bet you find none.

 

I agree with the bits hilighted in yellow - that it is a nice goal to strive for but really hard to achieve in practice. But for the ones you quoted (resource management, lack of survivability, etc) those are absolutely true for both PvP and PvE. However at certain times certain aspects may appear amplified in PvP or PvE, but they apply equally to both.

 

As for listing serious examples I don't think I can, however in the early game do you not remember seeing PvPers complain about "OMG Sorcs are too powerful!!!" and virtually every "class balance" since this game launched has resulted in a nerf - either less damage dealt, less effective/shorter ranged abilities, more damage taken, lower HP, or a combination of all.

 

Whether this is due to PvP players complaining I can't say. However it is clear that BWs supposed changes for PvP (almost) always is to the detriment of PvE as far as Sorcs are concerned.

[BaronV]

Condescension?

 

I must admit, I also fail to see it.

 

All the Developers did was tell two entire AC communities that they simply do not understand how to play their own classes, are completely out of touch with the reality of how these classes perform, that there is a built in hybrid "tax" so to speak as a core component to their thought processes (despite previous claims otherwise), that they simply do not deserve to and will never be competitive in comparison to the "real" DPS specs, that such comparisons are inherently futile, and that at the end of the day they consider both VG/PTs and Sorc/Sages exactly where they want them and they have absolutely no plans whatsoever to look at either AC going forward.

 

Where is the condescension in that?

 

Now, could we please all go help out the Snipers/Slingers because they are in desperate need of a real offensive CD to address their DPS issues and the developers have finally offered this much broken and deficient class some hope of getting this addressed.

 

The appropriate and well thought out sarcasm is strong with this one...

[mmjarec]

I agree with the bits hilighted in yellow - that it is a nice goal to strive for but really hard to achieve in practice. But for the ones you quoted (resource management, lack of survivability, etc) those are absolutely true for both PvP and PvE. However at certain times certain aspects may appear amplified in PvP or PvE, but they apply equally to both.

 

As for listing serious examples I don't think I can, however in the early game do you not remember seeing PvPers complain about "OMG Sorcs are too powerful!!!" and virtually every "class balance" since this game launched has resulted in a nerf - either less damage dealt, less effective/shorter ranged abilities, more damage taken, lower HP, or a combination of all.

 

Whether this is due to PvP players complaining I can't say. However it is clear that BWs supposed changes for PvP (almost) always is to the detriment of PvE as far as Sorcs are concerned.

 

They could make abilities habe alternate functions in pvp than pve just like they did with tumult. The best cc in game. Oh wait they removed it. Yep wouldnt want assissins to be viable

[Projawa]

To those of us that have been part of the community for awhile know who wrote this post and its not the first time he's done something like this. Why is he allowed to talk to the community like this? Its unacceptable.

 

Who wrote it?

[HoboWithAStick]

Who wrote it?

 

The capital letters in the title have a double meaning

[HelinCarnate]

Sounds like a whole bunch of people need reading lessons. Didn't see anything condescending with what they said. But that is not my default mode. Yes it is true a sorc can heal themselves all the way back to full health and non healer classes cannot. Nowhere was it implied that this could be done instantly or easily.