Bioware AUSTIN has some PR issues right now.

[AlrikFassbauer]

To finish you guys are taking this as an offense?, what?, grow a thicker skin.

 

I bet you play an Marauder or any of these mentioned classes.

But not any Sorceror.

[HoboWithAStick]

Can't believe this thread got back up, I guess it still goes to show of the PR issue.

 

Maybe taking twice as long to answer the sin Questions could be a good sign? Or maybe they just care so little they are not going to do it at all. Telling us these questions take time to answer is just insulting.

[Blackardin]

What are you talking about? They announced class reps almost three months ago.

 

 

They just announced the implementation two days ago.

 

That was not a confirmation of any time table, but to address a rather hyperbolic comment "that they don't care". Sorry for any confusion.

[Imhotep]

The majority of the players only play the usual cookie cutter builds they get from websites and on top of that they don't know how to use it because they're following what some guy on the internet told them to do, like the usual elitist guild that only bring marauders to ops because some post on the forums said so, try to play with your builds and get to know your class by testing new builds, etc, instead of reading a guide some random guy wrote, sometimes is not about the class but more about the player.

 

Also why are Sorcs complaining about survivability?, oh yeah because half of you are not even speced for PvP and try to cast at melee range against melee enemies without even trying to kite them, do not cast a single cc on an enemy and do not use a single of their heal abilities until they're under 20% of health, yeah no wonder you guys die a lot. I know a quite a few good sorcerers and they're so hard to kill is not even worth focusing them sometimes, why?, because they do all the things I said above, they know when to flee, they know how to position themselves, because they know how to use their class.

 

About Arena balancing issue, they're not even out and you guys are already complaining about it, let's look at another game with Arenas, WoW, in WoW not every single Class, let alone build, are suitable for Arenas even tho it has years with the Arena system, but of course you guys want every single spec of your class to be viable for arenas and to fit every single matrix available in the game, truth is some specs are going to be better for Arenas than others, you gotta accept that and deal with it, if you want to go elitist and become hardcore on arenas reroll classes and specs that are good for it, AKA flavor of the month. I guarantee there are good players out there of each spec and each class that have a high rating and believe me is not the class. Also they're not wasting their time complaining about it on the forums because they know every class have their ups and downs. (this wasn't directed to sorcerers only)

 

To finish you guys are taking this as an offense?, what?, grow a thicker skin.

 

Peace.

 

Well said.

 

 

I bet you play an Marauder or any of these mentioned classes.

But not any Sorceror.

 

 

I do, sniper, mara AND sorc. I said this once loudly during a moment of awkward silence in Blizzcon 2007 when the warlock QQ was all the rage. QUIT'CHER CRYIN.

[Ottoattack]

The majority of the players only play the usual cookie cutter builds they get from websites and on top of that they don't know how to use it because they're following what some guy on the internet told them to do, like the usual elitist guild that only bring marauders to ops because some post on the forums said so, try to play with your builds and get to know your class by testing new builds, etc, instead of reading a guide some random guy wrote, sometimes is not about the class but more about the player.

 

Also why are Sorcs complaining about survivability?, oh yeah because half of you are not even speced for PvP and try to cast at melee range against melee enemies without even trying to kite them, do not cast a single cc on an enemy and do not use a single of their heal abilities until they're under 20% of health, yeah no wonder you guys die a lot. I know a quite a few good sorcerers and they're so hard to kill is not even worth focusing them sometimes, why?, because they do all the things I said above, they know when to flee, they know how to position themselves, because they know how to use their class.

 

About Arena balancing issue, they're not even out and you guys are already complaining about it, let's look at another game with Arenas, WoW, in WoW not every single Class, let alone build, are suitable for Arenas even tho it has years with the Arena system, but of course you guys want every single spec of your class to be viable for arenas and to fit every single matrix available in the game, truth is some specs are going to be better for Arenas than others, you gotta accept that and deal with it, if you want to go elitist and become hardcore on arenas reroll classes and specs that are good for it, AKA flavor of the month. I guarantee there are good players out there of each spec and each class that have a high rating and believe me is not the class. Also they're not wasting their time complaining about it on the forums because they know every class have their ups and downs. (this wasn't directed to sorcerers only)

 

To finish you guys are taking this as an offense?, what?, grow a thicker skin.

 

Peace.

 

No one care about what avg. Joe does in a WZ, and the game should not be balanced around avg. Joe (even though sometimes it is, and/or the devs only know about class balance from avg. Joe prospective).

 

Let me run down the sorc specs from top tier PvP:

 

Corruption: Turret healer. Highly susceptible to interrupts. Survivability is okay and output is good. The problem is Ops healers have same output, with no casts, better survivability and energy management. As a result, no one would bring sorc healers for end game PvP, particularly for arenas. I would urge that corruptions sorc are closer to being balanced and ops need to be toned down, but the bottom line is they are not desirable for competitive PvP in the game current state.

 

Lightning: Turrets dps with little protection. Plays like merc pre expansion. Reasonable output if left to free cast, but damage drops significantly under focus fire. With almost all atks susceptible to interrupt, the class overall is not good for PvP. Also, if you get rooted, you are screwed. If all sorc can break roots with force speed like merc with HO, but no.

 

Madness: Viable, but not good. Good mobility, but again susceptible roots. Has no burst, dies easily under focus fire, highly reliant on dot damage (which is guaranteed to get cleansed in arenas),has very little tools to kill healers and beyond terrible resource management.

 

 

Conclusion is sorc healers only offer healing (no utility beside pull) and another class does it much better. Dps specs have too many issues, and other ranged dps (merc snipers) have better survivability, better output, better burst and more reliable under pressure. Ya I can own pugs with my sorc, but so is the case with any spec of any class, that does not mean it is good in competitive PvP, and none of the sorc specs is even close to optimal in end game PvP.

[AdrianDmitruk]

I would opine that sorcs complain about their survivability because their crowd control keeps getting nerfed, while at the same time melee anti-kiting gets buffed (smashers' obliterate no longer respecting root probably the most obvious/egregious example of this).

 

Less CC to keep melee at bay+melee with more anti-kiting abilities=more melee time on target=decreased sorc survivability.

 

The QQ about sorcs' lack of defensive cooldowns is but a symptom of the problem. Sorcs' tools for kiting have historically grown weaker (the temporary aberration of bubblestun, that is no longer with us, notwithstanding) while at the same time melee have been given more ways to catch up to kiting sorcs and lolsmash them.

 

Sorc QQ may be misdirected (and should be applied more towards gaining some of our old CC back than defensive cooldowns, at least for PVP, that wouldn't really help lackluster utility in PVE though), but that QQ is not groundless.

[Haiken]

No one care about what avg. Joe does in a WZ, and the game should not be balanced around avg. Joe (even though sometimes it is, and/or the devs only know about class balance from avg. Joe prospective).

 

Let me run down the sorc specs from top tier PvP:

 

Corruption: Turret healer. Highly susceptible to interrupts. Survivability is okay and output is good. The problem is Ops healers have same output, with no casts, better survivability and energy management. As a result, no one would bring sorc healers for end game PvP, particularly for arenas. I would urge that corruptions sorc are closer to being balanced and ops need to be toned down, but the bottom line is they are not desirable for competitive PvP in the game current state.

 

Lightning: Turrets dps with little protection. Plays like merc pre expansion. Reasonable output if left to free cast, but damage drops significantly under focus fire. With almost all atks susceptible to interrupt, the class overall is not good for PvP. Also, if you get rooted, you are screwed. If all sorc can break roots with force speed like merc with HO, but no.

 

Madness: Viable, but not good. Good mobility, but again susceptible roots. Has no burst, dies easily under focus fire, highly reliant on dot damage (which is guaranteed to get cleansed in arenas),has very little tools to kill healers and beyond terrible resource management.

 

 

Conclusion is sorc healers only offer healing (no utility beside pull) and another class does it much better. Dps specs have too many issues, and other ranged dps (merc snipers) have better survivability, better output, better burst and more reliable under pressure. Ya I can own pugs with my sorc, but so is the case with any spec of any class, that does not mean it is good in competitive PvP, and none of the sorc specs is even close to optimal in end game PvP.

 

I am pretty sure that 80% of the sorcs complaining in this thread are avg joes, but ok you make some good points.

 

Now I am going to say something probably most of you will not like, but if you consider yourself a true hardcore PvP player sometimes you have to put a side your feelings and play the classes that are viable, it doesn't mean you can't ask to buff your favorite class.

 

I truly believe that Operative/Scoundrels take the crown as king of PvP healing, it doesn't mean the other classes are not viable, it just means Operative/Scoundrels are better and preferred, of course HoTs and incredible kitting ability (Exfiltrate/Scamper) along with an arsenal of CC, Stun and Escape abilities will make any healer look OP, maybe they should get nerfed?, I don't know, I just really don't see how they can buff Sorcs/Sages healers without breaking them, maybe a Talent point in the healing tree that allows you to heal while in Force Barrier?, anyway, Sorcs also have plenty of defensive abilities, Static Barrier, Polarity Shift, Unnatural Preservation, Force Speed, Overload and of course Force Barrier which isn't much of a help if there is no one around to heal you but yourself, you also have two HoTs, Innervate and Resurgence which are not bad. Besides in Arenas you should have guard on you at all times and your teammates should be peeling you.

 

As Madness goes you guys want a damage mitigation CD on top of Force Barrier?, I mean I get it, as a healer Force Barrier isn't of much help since there is no one else to heal you (depending on your matrix), but as a DPS is a free reset, your healer can top you while you are channeling Force Barrier and a free reset in Arenas is a big deal, besides that you have your usual tool kit. Adding another defensive cooldown will just break your class and it will be deemed OP.

 

I think this guy is into something here.

 

Sorc QQ may be misdirected (and should be applied more towards gaining some of our old CC back than defensive cooldowns, at least for PVP, that wouldn't really help lackluster utility in PVE though), but that QQ is not groundless.

 

I would like to clarify that I do believe that your class need some tweaking or maybe they need to tone down some other classes, but is your class broken to the point that it is unplayabale? No it is not by any means.

[dscount]

Bioware - Can we at least get our Force Regen Bug fixed? I keep putting in TICKETS so I hope someone is reading them and posted several times in forums. TWO MONTHS.. going on TWO MONTHS of this bug and nobody at BW has said "Boo" about it.

 

Three POSTS that say the same thing:

• http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=667393
  
• http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=681043
  
• http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=676319
  

 

FIVE in Game BUG reports filed so far (After each Patch even):

• 10357865 on 10/8/13
  
• 10207433 on 9/17/13
  
• 10154981 on 9/12/13
  
• 10076892 on 8/30/13
  
• 9842247 on 8/05/13
  

[Drahy]

Hey psybernetic,

 

It really isn't necessary to make this kind of noise to get a response, unfortunately this was very poor timing on our part by posting this on a Friday as Musco stated in his post in this thread. We are going to work on this in the future - this was definitely a learning experience for us!

 

 

Hey folks!

 

I apologize for the delay in response. In retrospect, I think us posting class top 3 answers on Fridays may be a poor decision. What that unfortunately creates is a situation where we can post answers and then at some point, need to go home. Leaving all of you on the forums to our silence, which is certainly not optimal.

 

Also, I know for Courtney the end of last week was a hectic one for her role on the team which made it difficult to take an active part in the thread. For myself, I wasn't in the country, I was in Germany for our Cantina event. Excuses aside, it was poorly timed on our behalf and I want to make sure we avoid that. I would rather us hold the answers for a day or two than kind of "drop the mic" on you after we answer.

 

This kind of thing is a great learning experience for us on what we can do to improve the class rep system. In both regards to you guys, the forum users, and us on the BioWare side in how we present information. I know this round didn't exactly make everyone throw a parade but it helps in making sure that we make this system better. At the end of the day I think we can all agree that getting a good dialog going about class issues is a good thing for everyone.

 

-eric

 

So everyone got their answers from whole team only sorc/sages again from one man who was drunk on Friday ... How pathetic ... and top of it we did NOT get any new ones from whole team just ignoring us once again! One man answers from Friday is ok for them but not for US! We want our answers again and with howing some espect and not responses like "heal to full" when you deal dmg and your heals are very limited or "make them pay for trying to kill you" - so please do it again without these troll answers and sentences. Thank you

Edited October 11, 2013 by Drahy

[idnewton]

So everyone got their answers from whole team only sorc/sages again from one man who was drunk on Friday ... How pathetic ... and top of it we did NOT get any new ones from whole team just ignoring us once again! One man answers from Friday is ok for them but not for US! We want our answers again and with howing some espect and not responses like "heal to full" when you deal dmg and your heals are very limited or "make them pay for trying to kill you" - so please do it again without these troll answers and sentences. Thank you

 

Still finding things to complain about? Move on.

[dscount]

SHOCKER!

 

Still missing the 2% Force Regen Rate BUFF from skills tree in version 2.4.1

 

Bioware - Can we at least get our Force Regen Bug fixed? I keep putting in TICKETS so I hope someone is reading them and posted several times in forums. TWO MONTHS.. going on TWO MONTHS of this bug and nobody at BW has said "Boo" about it.

 

Three POSTS that say the same thing:•http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=667393

•http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=681043

•http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=676319

 

SIX in Game BUG reports filed so far (After each Patch even):

•10376687 on 10/14/13

•10357865 on 10/8/13

•10207433 on 9/17/13

•10154981 on 9/12/13

•10076892 on 8/30/13

•9842247 on 8/05/13

[TheLexinator]

 

SIX in Game BUG reports filed so far (After each Patch even):

•10376687 on 10/14/13

•10357865 on 10/8/13

•10207433 on 9/17/13

•10154981 on 9/12/13

•10076892 on 8/30/13

•9842247 on 8/05/13

 

Lol and you expected what? I still don't have all the coins from my CE. They eventually gave me my items, but not my coins.

They also deleted countless tickets where I sent in receipts, complaints, posts, etc.

 

Nothing to see here. Move along.

 

I wish Turbine or Blizzard showed these guys how to run a good Customer Service department.

[idnewton]

SHOCKER!

 

Still missing the 2% Force Regen Rate BUFF from skills tree in version 2.4.1

 

Bioware - Can we at least get our Force Regen Bug fixed? I keep putting in TICKETS so I hope someone is reading them and posted several times in forums. TWO MONTHS.. going on TWO MONTHS of this bug and nobody at BW has said "Boo" about it.

 

Three POSTS that say the same thing:•http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=667393

•http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=681043

•http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=676319

 

SIX in Game BUG reports filed so far (After each Patch even):

•10376687 on 10/14/13

•10357865 on 10/8/13

•10207433 on 9/17/13

•10154981 on 9/12/13

•10076892 on 8/30/13

•9842247 on 8/05/13

 

But you can look like Marka Ragnos. The time you waste mid-fight looking at that amazingness will probably make up for the lack of force regeneration :3

[MillionsKNives]

But you can look like Marka Ragnos. The time you waste mid-fight looking at that amazingness will probably make up for the lack of force regeneration :3

 

Try assigning some artists to fix bugs and let me know how that goes for you.

[veyl]

I am pretty sure that 80% of the sorcs complaining in this thread are avg joes, but ok you make some good points.

 

Now I am going to say something probably most of you will not like, but if you consider yourself a true hardcore PvP player sometimes you have to put a side your feelings and play the classes that are viable, it doesn't mean you can't ask to buff your favorite class. And you think this is how it should be? Class balance is supposed to be a constant thing in MMO's. For Bioware, it's something they do every 6 months. It's unacceptable, plain and simple. Every other MMO has consistent re-balances in every single patch. That is the STANDARD of an mmo that Bioware fails to grasp. (or simply doesn't have the man/brain power to do)

 

I truly believe that Operative/Scoundrels take the crown as king of PvP healing, it doesn't mean the other classes are not viable, it just means Operative/Scoundrels are better and preferred, of course HoTs and incredible kitting ability (Exfiltrate/Scamper) along with an arsenal of CC, Stun and Escape abilities will make any healer look OP, maybe they should get nerfed?, I don't know, I just really don't see how they can buff Sorcs/Sages healers without breaking them, maybe a Talent point in the healing tree that allows you to heal while in Force Barrier?, anyway, Sorcs also have plenty of defensive abilities, Static Barrier, Polarity Shift, Unnatural Preservation, Force Speed, Overload and of course Force Barrier which isn't much of a help if there is no one around to heal you but yourself, you also have two HoTs, Innervate and Resurgence which are not bad. Besides in Arenas you should have guard on you at all times and your teammates should be peeling you.You're right about operatives but you know what gives them an absolute advantage that sorcs/mercs don't have? Cover stance. Can't be lept to?Easier to peel. You're right about them needing to be toned down to the other healers level because they are simply too good for pvp. (PVE Is another ball game, all the healing classes are right where they should be)... You're defensive ability thing is flawed. Barrier is gone with one special attack from any class in the game - Polarity shift's CD is too long for it to be viable in rateds and Sorcs suffer the most from pushback. Unnatural preservation = loltrauma. It's nice to have though, I'll give you that (AS A HEALER, NOT AS A DPS) The buff to force speed was good....again...for healers but you have to talent spec it. Overload is a conal attack where as Operatives // Mercs have a 360 mez // knock back (flashbang// jet knockback thing)... Oh, best one. Innervate isn't a hot. It is a channeled cast that can be locked down easily. You are right about teams needing to peel for you, but lets face it, sorcs are still paper towels and focus = them dead.

 

As Madness goes you guys want a damage mitigation CD on top of Force Barrier?, I mean I get it, as a healer Force Barrier isn't of much help since there is no one else to heal you (depending on your matrix), but as a DPS is a free reset, your healer can top you while you are channeling Force Barrier and a free reset in Arenas is a big deal, besides that you have your usual tool kit. Adding another defensive cooldown will just break your class and it will be deemed OP. Madness has no defensive CDs except for a 2 second root. Lightning has all the fun toys: CL 1 second stun - Overload root - Bubble blind. Also: Do you know what happens when a sorc pops his bubble? The dps swap to the healer until that bubble is down... who is the healer going to heal again? Not the guy in the bubble.

 

I think this guy is into something here.

 

I would like to clarify that I do believe that your class need some tweaking or maybe they need to tone down some other classes, but is your class broken to the point that it is unplayabale? No it is not by any means.It's not unplayable, you're right. But it takes a hell of a lot more talent and skill to be able to do a fraction of what a player can do on an operative for healing or a marauder for DPS and a way lower skill cap. That is class imbalance.

 

Responses are in the red.

[dscount]

But you can look like Marka Ragnos. The time you waste mid-fight looking at that amazingness will probably make up for the lack of force regeneration :3

 

LOL.. true.. but NO..

[idnewton]

But you can look like Marka Ragnos. The time you waste mid-fight looking at that amazingness will probably make up for the lack of force regeneration :3

 

But in seriousness yeah it's pretty stupid. I would post it in the customer support forum though. They claim they constantly watch that, whereas general discussion, probably not. They'll ask you to make a ticket, but clearly you've done that multiple times

Edited October 15, 2013 by idnewton

[dscount]

I've posted it in about four different threads. Plus SIX BUG reports since 8/5/13 so far.

 

I don't think it's going to get much more visible except to Mr. ED that is wearing horse blinders.

 

The FACT is they don't seem to care or it's working as intended. (Which would be nice to know if that's the case, cause seeing the other 2 Classes getting that 2% buff is crap)

[idnewton]

Try assigning some artists to fix bugs and let me know how that goes for you.

 

And then there will always be "that guy" who misses it entirely.

Edited October 15, 2013 by idnewton

[idnewton]

I've posted it in about four different threads. Plus SIX BUG reports since 8/5/13 so far.

 

I don't think it's going to get much more visible except to Mr. ED that is wearing horse blinders.

 

The FACT is they don't seem to care or it's working as intended. (Which would be nice to know if that's the case, cause seeing the other 2 Classes getting that 2% buff is crap)

 

True, but it's not like I'm passionately recommending you make some obscure post in the suggestion box or the sorc forums. The customer support forum is supposedly watched constantly, and they can't really ignore anything in it. It's worth a shot if nothing else. Just copy/paste your message here into a thread there. Hopefully you'll get some kind of answer, even if it's "working as intended".

[EmperorLupey]

[quote=HoboWithAStick;6695351

Addtionally we find out that there will be no further class balance 2.4 and we have to wait till 2.5 or 2.6 which 2.5 will come out either Jan or Feb so thats at minimum 2 months of unbalanced areana gameplay for people to look forward to if not longer. They even say they know the classes are not balanced but decide its fine to leave them like that. Why? Last patch to actually have class balance was makeb and that is coming up on 5 months ago and by the time we see some mass class balance it could be 7 or 9 months (Same amount of time it takes for pvp content LOL).

Why does it take so long to come out with any kind of class balance? When this game came out they were doing it every other week, sure they had lots of staff but even smaller game companys do class balance at least monthly. Which leads to the question of what our sub dollars actually do? What are we paying the class balance team if updates from them take this long? Shouldn't they just contract the position out if balance only happens once or twice a year?

 

As it stands a couple of AC's will not be having much fun in arenas when it comes out and the fact they have to wait months for even a chance at class balance is insulting. All specs, all classes should be viable options to take into arenas.

 

One more insulting stance from bioware.

 

"The reason why there is not as much PvP content as PvE content is, that PvE always need new content to clear, while PvPers are generally happy, "as long as there is someone to kill"." I want to make it clear that is not an official post from bioware but is along the lines of what they said at the german cantina tour. So basically we don't make new pvp content cause pvp players are happy playing the same warzone over and over again

 

I just want to know what you guys think bioware is going to do about all this? Clearly allot of people are not happy and have turned much of this into a complete joke. I'm sure we will be seeing some yellow text about this on Monday, this is honestly too big for them to ignore.

 

May the Force be with you and don't forget to heal to full !

 

Dear OP. I am not going to say I scoured this post for duplicate answers as I am to post but the simple part of it is basic mathmatic equations.

If you take theory crafting seriously, and if you are posting on balance changes you should. Than you will know that by changing the determining numbers in any fashion on any class will create large gaps in power fluctuation across all content. things may appear to be a simple fix, but balancing out numbers is extremely delicate when you are dealing with massive amounts of numbers across a single character, then equating that character to another. The reason I would assume that PVP balance changes take place along with PVP content is that the development team knows that the PVP system is going into overhaul, and can dedicate more man hours into tweaking the system for improved performance without spiking. I know this may seem like a cop out to most people, but you seriously have to realise the amount of information you are tooling with. A simple change of a number can create a huge increase, or decrease in damage, or mitigation output on the PVE front also. This will unbalance those game mechanics, and stir up a whole new can of worms.

Please do not take this post with any mean intentions as I am not trying to insinuate any lack of intellect on your end. I simply do not know you , and do have the most likely answer so I am trying to put it as plainly as possible to hopefully educate you on this end. If this information is already along your understanding, and you still have complaints I urge you to try to program something into a working fashion, and then gut a core aspect of it, and try to rebuild with improved performance in all aspects without breaking anything.

[MillionsKNives]

And then there will always be "that guy" who misses it entirely.

 

And then there will be "that guy" that tries to pass off a non sequitur as a damning argument.

[idnewton]

And then there will be "that guy" that tries to pass off a non sequitur as a damning argument.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/joke

 

Read up.

[MillionsKNives]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/joke

 

Read up.

 

Lack of tone in text strikes again. In the context of the post you responded to and given a helping of passive-agressive tone applied (self-applied of course) makes for a completely different comment than you might have intended.

 

I see way too many "why do they make more armor instead of fixing my bug" complaints on these forums that it's starting to all blur together.

[idnewton]

Lack of tone in text strikes again. In the context of the post you responded to and given a helping of passive-agressive tone applied (self-applied of course) makes for a completely different comment than you might have intended.

 

I see way too many "why do they make more armor instead of fixing my bug" complaints on these forums that it's starting to all blur together.

 

Yeah... well... he got it. That's the important part I would guess