What about the casual PvP-ers?

[funkiestj]

I have to disagree on this point. I don't think the idea here is to make ranked PVP similar to NM Ops, but to make PVP for everyone more enjoyable. I think the teams that have the top ratings will certainly be able to compare the two, but it will also benefit the less talented players by matching them with similarly skilled players rather than getting facerolled all the time. The difference here is that PVE content always has the same level of difficulty, whereas PVP is dependent on the other team's ability. Anything that makes PVP more competitive is a step in the right direction.

right. If we are making PvE analogies, then in the current system would be like entering a flashpoint without knowing whether you are going to get normal, hard or nightmare mode. Do players who are capable of doing nightmare want to play normal? Do players who can't do a hard mode want to play nightmare?

 

There are actually 2 things ranked WZ can achieve: (1) e-peen for the best and a reward (leader board, bragging rights) for raising your game more and (2) serving up more competitive matches. I'm not that good so I'm more interested in (2) but I expect the same system will serve both purposes.

I do agree that cross server queuing or "mega servers" will be necessary to make this fully viable or else rankings really won't matter and it will just be matches against the same opponents non stop.

 

D.E. has said as much in the podcast link I posted above. BW says this is needed for 8 vs 8 regular season, so it is coming (if ranked WZ is not dropped all together).

[funkiestj]

What is more discouraging than to see a bad player look at their rank and realize how bad they are..... i think that would discourage people to not play pvp more than the gear difference does.

 

For PUGs, BW could even keep player ratings invisible (to the player) but use the ratings to schedule more evenly balanced matches. BW could keep all sorts of stats to serve this purpose, not just a single rating. Just give us fewer facerolls please!

[FMLDestroyer]

For PUGs, BW could even keep player ratings invisible (to the player) but use the ratings to schedule more evenly balanced matches. BW could keep all sorts of stats to serve this purpose, not just a single rating. Just give us fewer facerolls please!

 

Look we'd all be happier (i should hope anyway) with fewer facerolls. I would almost rather be face rolled than do the rolling but either way it's incredibly boring and frustrating.

 

If you can make a multiplayer game where pugging delivers consistently balanced and competitive matches I can guarantee that you'll have the best selling videogame of all time.

 

I want your fantasyland to come true, but for now group up and encourage others to do the same, it's the more realistic path to balanced pvp.

[Ntranced]

Same old ego's and strutting from the "hardcore" PVP community. Reading some of the comments in this thread I sincerely hope that premades are banned from pugs forever when ranked come out and that all your 8 man premades have to wait 3 hours for a WZ - even on the Fatman.

 

Seriously, there aren't THAT many of you yet you seem to be the most vocal always ready with a whine about something. Maybe BW should make a server for all of you where you can just compare epeens all day like role players.

 

There is a place for solo ranked, there are far more people who don't want to hardcore their way through PVP than you think. Far more people who don't want to be bound to turning up at whatever time 4 nights a week to join the 8 man. There will likely be those in your own guild - it could even be YOU - who can't get in an 8 man as they are full, or they turn up late, or YOU didn't make the cut for the team.

 

You geared up by constantly roflstomping pugs for months, most of you geared up even faster because your 4 man premades were roflstomping sub 50s too. Now you don't even want to throw a bone to the puggers that you climbed all over in your quest for epeen? Shame on you all.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Look we'd all be happier (i should hope anyway) with fewer facerolls. I would almost rather be face rolled than do the rolling but either way it's incredibly boring and frustrating.

 

If you can make a multiplayer game where pugging delivers consistently balanced and competitive matches I can guarantee that you'll have the best selling videogame of all time.

 

I want your fantasyland to come true, but for now group up and encourage others to do the same, it's the more realistic path to balanced pvp.

 

Actually it is fairly easy to make that happen.

 

It does, however, require much larger server populations or cross server PVP.

 

You focus first on deciding what the "minimum" makeup is for a PVP group. I go with at least two healers and at least two tanks. You also need at least 2 DPS classes. So, ideally, all the game would have to do is to try to make sure each team has at least 2 healers, 2 tanks, and 2 DPS classes. Once that is done it can allow in 2 of "whatever" then it just has to try to run an algorithm based on gear both in the inventory and on the person to determine their "Expertise Score" and group people based on that. (You have to go on in inventory to stop people from queuing at low Expertise then swapping gear in the Warzone. Some kind of provision would have to be in place also to stop them from queuing and then pulling it out of a vault as well...)

 

This would place similarly expertised players against similarly expertised players and also would ensure a diverse group makeup with the tools needed for a warzone.

[Whitelightr]

Wow, so much ego radiating from this thread I dont even know where to begin...

 

Most of you seem to be confusing CASUAL with BAD. The two have nothing in common, so you should stop using them wrong. BAD is self explanitory. CASUAL just means someone doesn't spend 8 hours a day PvPing or Raiding. They may not spend 50 million credits to upgrade a item for +2 more stats that honestly isnt making THAT big of a difference, but that doesn't make them a BAD player.

 

And almost all of you "hardcore" PvPers fail to realize the purpose of ranked warzones: to pit players against other players of the (somewhat) same skill level. What does it matter if you and your premade is rated 10,000 and a pugger is also rated 10,000? Is your rating better than his because you had friends queing with you? I'd wager that pugger worked harder for his rating than you did. And lets say your premade is rated 10k and a pugger IS bad and he's rated 2k; do you really think the system will place him in the same matches as it does you constantly?

Or maybe 2 of your premade didnt log in and you cant fill it via friends list, oh well we'll just queue up and fight 6 vs 8? Oh hey lets just use the 2 pugs as cannon fodde....oh wait they arent worthy of ranked warzones so we wont have any pugs to fill those spots.

 

Yea *maybe* the first week (or two) will be a little rough until the 'pack' seperates and rankings start filtering players. After that it will not effect you in the slightest. But go on a keep thinking CASUAL=BAD, and your rating via premade means more than the same rating on a solo queue'r, that'll really help keep SWTOR going and positive changes for the PvP aspect of the game...

[FMLDestroyer]

Actually it is fairly easy to make that happen.

 

It does, however, require much larger server populations or cross server PVP.

 

You focus first on deciding what the "minimum" makeup is for a PVP group. I go with at least two healers and at least two tanks. You also need at least 2 DPS classes. So, ideally, all the game would have to do is to try to make sure each team has at least 2 healers, 2 tanks, and 2 DPS classes. Once that is done it can allow in 2 of "whatever" then it just has to try to run an algorithm based on gear both in the inventory and on the person to determine their "Expertise Score" and group people based on that. (You have to go on in inventory to stop people from queuing at low Expertise then swapping gear in the Warzone. Some kind of provision would have to be in place also to stop them from queuing and then pulling it out of a vault as well...)

 

This would place similarly expertised players against similarly expertised players and also would ensure a diverse group makeup with the tools needed for a warzone.

 

Seems to me there is already a game with a huge population and cross server queues and yet That Game does not nor has ever had solo rated bgs.

 

If it was Easy don't you think they'd have done it?

 

Even if it was the only thing this game will ever have that That Game does not is storyline cutscenes and conversation.

[filipesantana]

ok lets close this thread since its 90% of rubbish of people that probably never played or succeeded in rated pvp.

 

 

Rated pvp is a COMPETITIVE mode of pvp,therefore logicaly requires TEAMS,since the format here are 8 man warzones and not 1v1.(hopefuly they will add 3v3 maps..since any experienced pvper will tell you thats the most competitive and balanced scenario)

 

Also...90% of the people here seem to NOT understanded rated pvp..ratings and the whole sistem whatsoever..

 

 

RATED PVP IS NOT HARDCORE WHATSOEVER...SPECIALLY in 8 man wzs.

 

(comparing to wow for better understandind from now on)

 

High rated players in wow..2600+,PLAY MOSTLY at the begining of the season..and spend months playing on alts..boosting..or playing casualy.

 

IF there is a Ranked coms cap..to achieve that cap u wont have to play for long(given good queu times).

 

ALSO(and the point most are missing or are completely oblivious about..)

 

THEY REQUIRE 8 MAN PREMADES BUT THE RATING IS PERSONAL!..therefore U DONT HAVE TO SCHEDULE ANYTHING!just like in wow rated bgs..u log in..and in general chat people will be spaming stuff like.."LF 2 More ranged dps 1600+" and so on.

 

SO,you wont need a SPECIFIC LOCKED TEAM to play...u can still "PUG" rated warzones.If ur good and grind ur rating up..u will get in good rating "PUGS" and jsut like in wow rbgs..the skill cap for this rated model is relaly low,since if u understand how it works..u jsut need to farm it up and u can get any rating u want given u play enough time..

 

So calling it HARDCORE because it requires you to queue with 8 poeple is just dumb...the only diference is that instead of the sistem geting u 7 more people AT the wz..u will have to group up before hand..but U WONT NEED TO COMIT TO A TEAM..SCHEDULES OR WHATEVER if u dont want to.

 

believe me,on active servers...there will be constant general chat spam of "PUG" rated wz teams..

 

So stop being clueless and use 2 brain cells to understand that if there is something that is NOT HARDCORE its rated "large scale maps" pvp...

 

edit: people calling for "solo rated pvp"(wich doesnt exist) and complainging about this and calling it hardcore..are people that are either 1:lazy enough to read general chat and join a gorup,or mke one themselvs..2:people that aknowledge their lack of skills and foreseen that they wont succeed in getting even into rated "pugs"..in either case the solution is,PLAY THE GAME!either get better..or stop being lazy..

 

/thread

Edited June 1, 2012 by filipesantana

[Pahomi]

Ah yes, another "I don't need it so that means no one else needs it" response. Spaming general chat to find 7 other people does not seem fun to me, especially since you would most likely go against teams communicating on vent and such. With solo ranked, we would have a separate queue and not only would that spare you the hassle of spaming general chat but it would also keep you away from 8 man voice comm teams. Not to mention that everyone would have fun playing PvP with people of their own skill level.

 

But hey if WoW doesn't have it I guess it can't be done, right? Let the facerolls go on then, that would surely encourage new players to join the PvP community. I'm done trying to explain things to the old MMO crowd who seem to have their ideas fixed and are not receptive to any logical arguments. I'll just adapt and play ranked when I can and maybe hope for some arenas in the future. In the meantime, I'll continue to faceroll pugs in regular WZ and hope they keep coming back for more. Or I will lose the match being on top of the scoreboard because all my teammates have no idea how to play the game (which is OK...everyone has to learn, it's not their fault there is no matchmaking system). Because that's how it is in other MMO's, why even try to make it better, right?

[Kanana]

All this stupid decision does is making sure that Pre-mades will have an even greater advantage since rated WZs will make gearing up far faster than having to slog through normal WZs - often populated with WHs waiting for a rated.

 

Bioware needs to stop driving casuals away by rewarding only hardcore grinders. PVP gear should be free, not the result of a grind.

[LenrocNewDawn]

I do understand BWs position about ranked WZs and not allowing PUG to queue for those. Despite that I still think that's a very bad idea. Yes some people will be butt hurt about losing a game or two and they will blame it on the team but most will try their best to climb the ladder and hopefully enjoy it.

But in order for that to be so you need for x-server queue that tries to grab people from different servers to make the teams. That way people won't be able to carry arguing in fleet chat (or w/e chat) if they lose a WZ and start the blame game . Also PUG teams should never ever ever be put against pre-mades. If there are not enough PUGs to make 2 teams, then don't make the match instead of pitting them against a pre-made. Thirdly put up a leaver debuff, be it in losing ranking or cool down on joining other ranked WZs for like 30 minutes, you need that in place. I agree that sometimes (hopefully rarely) people will suffer from a connection loss that will cost them some ranks or w/e but , heh, that the way gaming over internet is. And finally but not last a much smarter match making system. A system that will take into account class, expertise level and maybe valor when its trying to match up the teams. I mean a trooper/smuggler team vs a knight/consular team in a Huttball match could be extremely annoying for one team (guess what team ).

 

Bottom line I think you'll hurt many more people if you don't allow PUGs to compete in ranked then otherwise. But that's just my 2 cents , your game BW.

Edited June 1, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn

[ZaRree]

I don't really see how a solo queue for ranked would be any different that regular, as a pug u have little control how the game goes.

I don't currently do premades, but when ranked comes i'll probably start searching for a good guild =)

[olagaton]

I don't really see how a solo queue for ranked would be any different that regular, as a pug u have little control how the game goes.

I don't currently do premades, but when ranked comes i'll probably start searching for a good guild =)

It doesn't matter if solo queue ranked is different than regular; some of us want to see how we have been doing (in a ranked system) while in solo queue, compared to others.

[Veniras]

It doesn't matter if solo queue ranked is different than regular; some of us want to see how we have been doing (in a ranked system) while in solo queue, compared to others.

 

This! Personally I don't really care if my ranking is dependent on my team if it's a guaranteed solo queue only, as I consider my PUG-team to be a entity of "unknowns trying to pull it off together". I just don't want to join nor meet groupings.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Veniras

[coerCez]

I don't really see how a solo queue for ranked would be any different that regular, as a pug u have little control how the game goes.

I don't currently do premades, but when ranked comes i'll probably start searching for a good guild =)

 

Ugh, how do you not see the difference?

 

First week everyone is playing Ranked WZs and no one really has an establish rating.

 

After the first week, the system puts you and people similar to your rating into a team vs other people similar to your rating.

 

So after the first week if I have 1200 rating, the system should put me in a WZ +/- 100 rating with other players who are solo Queueing.

 

Solo queueing should and must be possible. If done right, I don't see the difference between you gathering 7 people with you to jion as a group or the system finding 7 others close to your rating and putting you into a WZ together...

[ghettogenius]

As a developer it just seems foolish to design your system with a significant limitation such as guild/server population in order for it to work correctly. Ilum and the Fatman migration have shown just how rigid and inflexible their system is. It would make much more sense to design it without such limitations in order to maximize user interactivity.

[coerCez]

As a developer it just seems foolish to design your system with a significant limitation such as guild/server population in order for it to work correctly. Ilum and the Fatman migration have shown just how rigid and inflexible their system is. It would make much more sense to design it without such limitations in order to maximize user interactivity.

 

I believe it is a matter of available resources vs return on investment. If it takes them 3 times as many resources and time to develop a robust system that will cover a broader population, they will more likely not go that route. To me, keeping rateds to premades and server only seems like the quick and dirty way of doing it. they are going for all the "quick" wins and not realizing this would potentially cause their demise.

[filipesantana]

geez..the amount of bs here.

 

rated wzs wont require a fixed team neither loads of time...the same way rbgs DONT in wow...pugs for rated bgs are created every 20 mins in general chat..

 

im not even reading the "im a solo player..i dont want to be in a guild or a group" posts...if ur like that and ur trying to play an mmo you are an anti social wierdo and u wont EVER..EVER have the game catered to ur desires...so,adapt or ****.MMOS REQUIRE SOCIAL INTERACTION for you to succeed.(and and your the SMALLEST minority in the mmo universe in case u didnt know..)

 

 

the poeple complaining now are the same that complained about bw adding rated pvp in the begining,they just cant fathom the idea of being seen as bad/average players once again because they dont have the RATINGS so they come up with every single possible xcuse before hand to discredit rated pvp.Atm its the "premades are a faceroll i want to solo queue" bs.Ridiculous and sad at the same time..because if ur good enough u will be ASKED TO PLAY AND JOIN GOOD PLAYERS even if ur not in the same guid...AND U DONT NEED LOADS OF TIME TO DO IT...

In the end this is jsut like everything in life.."if u want to succeed as much as you want to breathe then you will be successful".It does require time and dedication to some xtent...and as an mmo...it does require SOCIAL INTERACTION

[olagaton]

I believe it is a matter of available resources vs return on investment.

It works both ways, though. Soloers will eventually quit the game if they don't see a return on their $15/month investment too.

[olagaton]

im not even reading the "im a solo player..i dont want to be in a guild or a group" posts...if ur like that and ur trying to play an mmo you are an anti social wierdo and u wont EVER..EVER have the game catered to ur desires...so,adapt or ****.MMOS REQUIRE SOCIAL INTERACTION for you to succeed.(and and your the SMALLEST minority in the mmo universe in case u didnt know..)

You're silly for believing that MMO = required grouping. MMO, by definition, is a massively multiplayer online game. Nowhere in that name implies that grouping is required. The only thing MMO means is that the environment you play within may be dynamic and changing because other people within the game affect your surroundings. Somehow, somewhere, the misinterpretation of MMO got around to being raid required or group required, which is completely inaccurate.

 

The moment a company goes away from that mantra, the better off their game will end up being. End game solo content that rivals group and raid based end game content is a must for a game to experience the type of success and retention of subscriber base these companies hope to achieve. Or they can stay in the stone age like most MMO's currently out, including SWTOR.

Edited June 1, 2012 by olagaton

[Pahomi]

geez..the amount of bs here.

 

rated wzs wont require a fixed team neither loads of time...the same way rbgs DONT in wow...pugs for rated bgs are created every 20 mins in general chat..

 

im not even reading the "im a solo player..i dont want to be in a guild or a group" posts...if ur like that and ur trying to play an mmo you are an anti social wierdo and u wont EVER..EVER have the game catered to ur desires...so,adapt or ****.MMOS REQUIRE SOCIAL INTERACTION for you to succeed.(and and your the SMALLEST minority in the mmo universe in case u didnt know..)

 

 

the poeple complaining now are the same that complained about bw adding rated pvp in the begining,they just cant fathom the idea of being seen as bad/average players once again because they dont have the RATINGS so they come up with every single possible xcuse before hand to discredit rated pvp.Atm its the "premades are a faceroll i want to solo queue" bs.Ridiculous and sad at the same time..because if ur good enough u will be ASKED TO PLAY AND JOIN GOOD PLAYERS even if ur not in the same guid...AND U DONT NEED LOADS OF TIME TO DO IT...

In the end this is jsut like everything in life.."if u want to succeed as much as you want to breathe then you will be successful".It does require time and dedication to some xtent...and as an mmo...it does require SOCIAL INTERACTION

 

 

 

You do realize that we live in a society where people have different preferences and opinions, yes? Why do you try to force your views onto others? By your logic, I am considered a weirdo because I have an 8 hour job and I spend at least 4h a day going out with my GF or walking my dog or going for drinks and that only leaves me about 2 hours (sometimes less) to play the game? I usually play late before going to bed so my guildies are usually not on at that time. Trust me am I not anti-social in any way. I also consider myself a skilled PvP-er and I will play ranked WZ with my giuld mates when I can but for the most time I can only play solo.

 

But that is just me, some people may prefer to not even join a guild. I don't call them weirdos for it. Everyone has a right to play as they see fit. Learn to have some respect.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Pahomi

[Jadescythe]

geez..the amount of bs here.

 

rated wzs wont require a fixed team neither loads of time...the same way rbgs DONT in wow...pugs for rated bgs are created every 20 mins in general chat..

 

im not even reading the "im a solo player..i dont want to be in a guild or a group" posts...if ur like that and ur trying to play an mmo you are an anti social wierdo and u wont EVER..EVER have the game catered to ur desires...so,adapt or ****.MMOS REQUIRE SOCIAL INTERACTION for you to succeed.(and and your the SMALLEST minority in the mmo universe in case u didnt know..)

 

 

the poeple complaining now are the same that complained about bw adding rated pvp in the begining,they just cant fathom the idea of being seen as bad/average players once again because they dont have the RATINGS so they come up with every single possible xcuse before hand to discredit rated pvp.Atm its the "premades are a faceroll i want to solo queue" bs.Ridiculous and sad at the same time..because if ur good enough u will be ASKED TO PLAY AND JOIN GOOD PLAYERS even if ur not in the same guid...AND U DONT NEED LOADS OF TIME TO DO IT...

In the end this is jsut like everything in life.."if u want to succeed as much as you want to breathe then you will be successful".It does require time and dedication to some xtent...and as an mmo...it does require SOCIAL INTERACTION

 

geez... the amount of bs here

 

(couldn't resist )

[Khoraji]

You do realize that we live in a society where people have different preferences and opinions, yes? Why do you try to force your views onto others? By your logic, I am considered a weirdo because I have an 8 hour job and I spend at least 4h a day going out with my GF or walking my dog or going for drinks and that only leaves me about 2 hours (sometimes less) to play the game? I usually play late before going to bed so my guildies are usually not on at that time. Trust me am I not anti-social in any way. I also consider myself a skilled PvP-er and I will play ranked WZ with my giuld mates when I can but for the most time I can only play solo.

 

But that is just me, some people may prefer to not even join a guild. I don't call them weirdos for it. Everyone has a right to play as they see fit. Learn to have some respect.

 

That is why there are different genres, play a single player game or a game like D3 if you dont like playing with other people. Its pretty simple.

[JayPres]

geez..the amount of bs here.

 

rated wzs wont require a fixed team neither loads of time...the same way rbgs DONT in wow...pugs for rated bgs are created every 20 mins in general chat..

 

im not even reading the "im a solo player..i dont want to be in a guild or a group" posts...if ur like that and ur trying to play an mmo you are an anti social wierdo and u wont EVER..EVER have the game catered to ur desires...so,adapt or ****.MMOS REQUIRE SOCIAL INTERACTION for you to succeed.(and and your the SMALLEST minority in the mmo universe in case u didnt know..)

 

 

the poeple complaining now are the same that complained about bw adding rated pvp in the begining,they just cant fathom the idea of being seen as bad/average players once again because they dont have the RATINGS so they come up with every single possible xcuse before hand to discredit rated pvp.Atm its the "premades are a faceroll i want to solo queue" bs.Ridiculous and sad at the same time..because if ur good enough u will be ASKED TO PLAY AND JOIN GOOD PLAYERS even if ur not in the same guid...AND U DONT NEED LOADS OF TIME TO DO IT...

In the end this is jsut like everything in life.."if u want to succeed as much as you want to breathe then you will be successful".It does require time and dedication to some xtent...and as an mmo...it does require SOCIAL INTERACTION

 

Let's call a spade a spade man.

 

Rated warzones = epeen for hardcore pvpers and nothing more.

 

Not that there is a problem with that, but rated WZ bare no significance to the average gamers experiece save for the chance at some extra swag. The average gamer has now started to leave this game along with the majority of the true hardcore gamers that had full BM in the first month or so. This is the result of grind style, time-gated, game play mechanics and lack of true community building/maintaining features.

 

Social interaction with rated war zones will be reduced, not enhanced. No one is going to care about me having the nicest gear save for a few, the rest will get on with their lives.

[WarGame]

Putting together an 8 man group every time you want to pvp doesn't really sound fun.

 

I'd imagine anyone that has done such a thing with any regularity understands the frustrations that can come with putting together your own pug (that's what most of these are going to be anyway), it's going to be even more of a pain when ratings start to take shape and you are looking for people of a similar rating.

 

With a solo que with a matchmaker (meaning it takes some base group composition metrics into account, for instance 1 healer and 1 tank, but not 3 of each) you'd get the same effect without having to spam general chat looking for people to fill out your group. 3 or 4 would have been fairly easy to fill up for this kind of thing, 8 is going to be a lot in many cases.