Been having this same problem for 3-4 weeks now. On the beginning adds (2-3) I can only see a small glowing graphic but cant target anything. I've tried with multiple graphic settings as well. I run a gtx770, newest drivers and all that. Its not game breaking just annoying.

My Jugg is now regulated to SM/Alt nights but pre 3.0 and shortly after I still ran it. A solid Opener for progression is simply: I give a 3 second countdown+Enrage I actually LEAP right after I say 2 (so the abilities from them land right as I land) Then Crushing>Backhand>Smash with Riposte as it procs Single Taunt as 4th GCD (3rd if you dont count leap) Aegis>Scream>Choke>Crushing with Riposte as available AoE Taunt At that point threat is rarely an issue (unless some dps hit a all crit streak on their opener) Right after I use Single Taunt, GOOD DPS will be using their threat drop in the 4th or 5th GCD. I dont like relying on Reflect for aggro, I like to use it to negate something. No fight in the game requires you to NEED AoE Taunt for mechanics near the pull (except maybe the Sparky adds depending on strat, and then its only the OT that needs it). Honestly it I'd bet he is opening with Enrage>Saber Throw>Leap. Once dps see that saber fly they're gonna open up; and he'll lose threat everytime. ST on an opener is just a wasted GCD, it sucks for damage+it builds almost no threat+you don't need the resources it gives right then anyways.

You say the tanks are draggin him around the room in a melee-friendly path. is it melee friendly AND splash dmg friendly as well? As someone said strats will vary based on group comp, but we have done it with 2 melee dps a few times. With the group comp you mention I would put the best melee dps on torque full time, throwing splash damage if/when he can on adds. Other melee and OT on shoots (ranged can jump over if it doesnt go down fast enough) Ranged handles Fire Device and wall turrets with melee throwing out splash damage when they can. With proper tank/boss positioning only 2 (1 set) of the turrets have to be killed without the boss nearby for added splash. I tank him in 3 spots, and the melee knows where the 4th spot is if fire blocks us on 3rd spot, we break one console everytime (Unless droid bugs or something). All 3 spots let them maximize dps and throw splash damage on everything but fire devices.

Few things to do: Gearing: Augment everything (at least blue augs if its a piece you'll be upgrading soon) - starting out you might want to split augs up between shield and absorb. But mostly straight shield is considered best. Stay away from Defense. You'll get some of it along the way but don't gear for it intentionally. Shield and Absorb are your bread and butter. For FPs - focus aggro. Champion>GOLD>Silver>Reg. Kill order for competent DPS will be the reverse of that. Regs and Silvers don't last very long and don't hit very hard (usually) so if a DPS takes 1-2 hits it doesn't matter). Don't guard the healer, guard the biggest DPS threat (AOE or single target dependant). Some mechanics it may be helpful to guard the healer though. Knowing the mechanics of the fight and your class > gear. For threat visuals you can run StarParse. If nothing else it has a popout window I find useful to monitor threat.

About Defense/Shield/Absorb- For leveling, you can go mostly defense and be fine. At end-game though you'll need to balance out those stats. Defense will completely negate an attack; shield will reduce the attack and the amount reduced is based on your absorb amount (its a little more technical than that, but we'll keep it simple for now). Due to diminishing returns, you'll never stack defense high enough to be hit-immune. Keep in mind the attack types from a mob/boss also affect which stat is going to be better- Some attacks can be defended and shielded, while others can only be shielded, and some bypass BOTH defense and shield chance. #4 For starting out at lv60 go into the ROLES forum and check out KBN's ideal tank stat thread. That will give you a starting point.

I don't mind ranged being able to dps on the move to a degree, but I agree it shouldn't be close to their full dps potential. Personally I've always like the way most sand-box MMOs handle it, range can operate at any range but suffer penalties if not at optimal range (accuracy, damage modifiers, etc).

The issue is, and has always been with MMOs, that without changing range dps basic skillsets you cannot effectively 'punish' them like you can melee. If a melee moves out of their designed engagement area they lose dps; but ranged can be anywhere between 30m and 0m of the boss and still do full dps. The only way to change it would be to make some/helf of a ranged dps abilities have a 30 max/15 min meter range. Then you could effectively add mechanics that target people outside of 10 meters, causing ranged to break dps to avoid it. Right now if you added those mechanics ranged can just clump into melee and negate them (IE Calph and Droid last tier) without suffering any penalty. As for the current tier, the bosses are not all that bad with proper tactics, but there are a few the punish anyone in melee range (dps or tanks).

The problem with extended parsing on a dummy as a Guardian is the lack of procs. It skews the data because much. In the parse you linked you had 23 Assault uses, 15 slashes; and of course Riposte was equal to GS uses. I don't even have Assault on my keybinds, and the only time I use Stasis/Push is the rare times I need to control an add on a boss (adds on Revanite Commanders etc). In actual tanking Riposte would be slightly over 2:1 to GS. Also you wouldn't have 23 'wasted' GCDs on Assault, or 5 GCDs on Stasis for focus gain, nor would you be using Push because you were focus starved and didn't have anything else available. That alone is 33 GCDs wasted in that parse. That's not even factoring in that during a real tanking situation you would be pushing Warding Strike out another 4-5 GCDs to just keep the buff up instead of using it on cooldown. So for the sake of some quick and easy numbers, we can double the Ripostes (Adding 191/dps), factor in 6-7 more slashes (lets low-end it and say 60dps there) for a total gain of 241dps which would have put you around 1,700dps/3,800tps (and that accounts for a rough guessimate of the dps loss from not using some abilities that you did). Which is with-in 100dps/200tps of the VG parse. That doesn't even account for the extra ~4 GCDs from pushing Warding Strike out which would bring the numbers even closer. Nothing wrong with testing, just keep in mind Shadows and VGs tanks don't suffer as much resource/tps/dps issues as a Guardian does on the dummy.

Tanks stances are bugged right now. There is supposed to be a 10% decrease in damage for being in tank stance, but right now its a 20% decrease instead.

I wondered about this myself when 3.0 launched. On a single target, Slash outperforms Cyclone Slash. If CS crits and Slash doesn't then the threat is extremely close. Crit vs Crit, and hit vs hit Slash does better. Due to talents CS crits more often, mine tend to crit 35%-42% of the time while Slash is 14%-19%, but its not enough to justify using it on single targets. A non-crit CS generates 2200-2500 threat A non-crit Slash generates 3000-3400 threat

Actually it gives 1 more rage/focus than Sundering used to. For burning Rage/Focus on a single target use SLASH. It does more damage than Sweeping Slash does. Sweeping Slash only performs better if there are 2+ targets to hit. Yeah it takes some getting used to but it actually seems like Riposte being on the GCD has helped us more than it hurt us. Aside from some QOL issues the change caused I'm starting to appreciate it more and more.

Okay I ran some numbers today, albeit fairly quick and a small sample size. I mainly did it because all the discussions had me curious. I compared my Guardian vs my Vanguard. I changed some gear around on my Guardian to get the numbers somewhat close to get the best results I could. The Stats Guardian-lv60 with mostly 192/186 3,139 Str/794.1 Bonus dmg/22% D/43% Shield/38.5% Absorb Vanguard-lv60 mix 192/186 2973 Aim, 694.5 bonus Dmg, 16%/40.5%/42.7% Baseline Test vs Ops Dummy (full debuff mod) with only 186mh, no other gear: Guardian 208,719 Threat / 3,020 tps Damage 50,418 / 730 dps Riposte - 10,874 threat (9.7%) Vanguard 201,721 threat (2,793 tps) Damage 53,761 (704 dps) Energy Blast: 6,280 threat (5.2%) Shoulder Cannon: 5,068 (4.2%) Results were much closer than I expected them to be. Combining EB and SC makes it nearly identical to Riposte. On a dummy parse both classes are close enough to equal you can't call it unbalanced in my opinion. *NOTE* I ran 4 parses for each, then took the average numbers for the results. Like I said it is a small sample size but I'm too lazy to pull 100 parses on each to get extremely accurate results lol. When I saw that I thought okay, maybe "real-world" results are going to be different. Since I didn't have a healer online I grabbed Teek and headed to Rishi. I ran 4 more test on each vs Champion Grophets (I know force resistant but it was the best option without long waits on respawns). Stats in my normal gear for each character shown above Guardian Threat 518,428 (7,599 tps) Damage 105,745 (1546 dps) Riposte - 26.6k dmg (25.2%), 53.2K threat (22.1%) Vanguard 539,607 Threat (7,506 tps) Damage 121,344 (1,684 dps) Energy Blast: 8,524 damage (7.0%) / 17,049 threat (6.5%) Shoulder Cannon: 5,050 damage (4.2%) / Threat 10,102 (3.8%) Again the results are pretty close. Keep in mind the Guardian was at a slight disadvantage on mob type (force resistance) but has a slight-to-moderate gear advantage as well. Rotations Used and other info My conclusion: There isn't a big difference between the two classes. Not like I thought there would be. The only real advantage I saw on the VG was it does have a much higher APM due to the off-GCD abilities (it averaged almost 10 more APM than the Guardian). Combining EB and SC vs solely Riposte on the dummy keeps them pretty equal. However in the real-world SC's long cooldown keeps it from making much difference, while EB has 3 times the cooldown on Riposte and doesn't gain any damage increases like Riposte. I am the first to admit I am much more comfortable on my Guardian than my Vanguard since SoR launch. I would like to see other peoples results, especially with Vanguards. I run my Guardian with the main group for our operations, and my Vanguard is regulated to alt night; this week I'm going to note the boss fights with each and compare them that way as well hopefully.

edit- really shouldn't post when I'm sleep deprived lol

I have zero experience tanking on a shadow/sin, but I do main a Guardian/Jugg. I'm sorry but if you are having threat issues you are doing something very wrong in your rotation(s). I've noticed quite a few guardians haven't changed their rotations from pre-3.0. I still use taunts in the very beginning (30-45 seconds) of a fight for 2 reasons: its just habit, and I run with dps that are not afraid of going all out so I make sure they aren't going to pull off me.

The values of course vary as you gear. But typically you'll have 21-23% defense, you'll end up with about 40-43% shield and 38-42% absorb with 192s. All of our gear has higher shield than defense, so trying to hit ideal stats will be difficult without constantly re-augmenting. Personally I've found it best (and just as effective) to focus on Defense and Absorb, then let my shield hit whatever it hits through gear. I run 4 absorb augs and rest defense for now. I keep some of the 192 mods/enhance (both absorb and defense types) lying around and change out as my gear changes. Right now for my gear ideal stats is something like 1450/1050/975, and my stats are 1423/1125/930 (those numbers are real close, but not exact), which puts me at 22-23% on defense, 42-43% shield, 39-40% absorb (with stim, no ability proc gains). You factor in class procs and I hit 26-27% defense and 42-43% absorb and boost to 53% damage reduction (with 2pc bonus). For SM content I stay around 900-1300 dtps, boss dependent, which is easily healed and doesn't stress the healers I've talked to.

I see what the OP is getting at, but ideally the situation should never arise if the stats and diminishing returns are adjust right by the Devs. We *might* see it with NiM gear, the stats there could possibly push tanks so far into DR that you would see a more effective return augmenting for Endurance. But I think even that would only be in absolute min-max, and then only maybe 2-3 augments would need changed. Keep an eye on KBN's thread. I've personally switched to a Guardian tank in 3.0, but he has it all listed. My only issue is it seems some of the 192/198 pieces could have been slightly better balanced for the respective classes.

Guardian is my main now, pre 3.0 I had a Guardian and a VG tank. I didn't hate the changes that came with 3.0 but it did take some getting used to. Now that my rotation is figured out threat isn't an issue except in rare AoE pulls, and only then if the dps starts while I'm still mid-leap. There are a few QoL (a DC proc based on a focus builder, bugged utilities, tank stance bug, no effective way to burn focus other than slash) life changes I would like to see, but I can work around them and tank while enjoying the class.

Here's the rotations I've been using: Single Target (max threat) - Combat Focus>Leap>Reflect>Sweep>GS>Hilt>Riposte>Taunt>Blade Storm>Warding>Slashx2 to burn off excess focus until GS comes off CD. Then GS>Sweep>Riposte>Blade Storm>Taunt as they come off cooldown. No threat issues at all so far. You land on the boss with 7 Focus and Burn 3 (you gain 2 more) before the first taunt, 1-2 focus after then use Warding to get back up for a few slashes while waiting on cooldowns. You do sacrifice some defensive bonuses in the first 10 seconds or so, but the healers should have no problem since the raid hasn't started taking any meaningful damage yet. Trash/Adds/AoE - Leap>Sweep>Warding>GS>Cyclone spam. If you really want to make sure NOTHING gets away Reflect after leap, hit 1 Cyclone then AoE taunt and Cyclone spam using sweep/GS when they come off cooldown; throw a combat focus in when needed.

[quote=AnuranFrozen;7846503 What are the differences between a Focus, and a Combat generator, and which one should i use? At high levels, what is a Jugg best at, Dps or Tank? What stats are most important to me, and which should i be trying to get or already have on my armour that are best for me? Is it bad if i switch Disciplines alot? If i am damage will never be a better damage at max level than a max level Maur? A focus is geared towards a dps spec, while generator is for tanking. Thats the quick and easy of it. At 60 (or 55) a Jugg can either tank or dps, both specs are completely raid viable Stats while leveling aren't much concern. Just go with high Strength stuff so you can kill and level faster. Some people switch multiple times a day depending on what they are doing Assuming skill is equal, a Jugg can compete with a Mara on dps.

I think you misunderstood what I said, assuming you are replying to my post above. I don't think the combat is slower, just feels clunky. The opener I've started using is the only time I feel my tank has a smothness to it. After that the abilities just don't seem to flow together like most other classes and specs do. Not counting the opening abilities, we have 5 abilities now we are forced to use (Warding, Guardian, Sweep, Blade, Riposte), plus Hilt Strike on cooldown for threat & slash to burn excess resource which makes 7, combat focus/stasis/throw as required/needed. Out of the main 7, to me it seems only GS, Blade Storm, Sweep have any kind of sync to them; the rest feel like you just throw them in as you can. With dps specs the abilities tend to transition and maintain almost a infinite flow of GCDs, our do not have that nice little QoL feature. That's what I want to change, make our abilities fit together better. I don't want EZ-mode rotations, or to be able to hold threat without any fear of losing it; I just want the spec to play a little more fluidly. The spec does feel more powerful in regards to dps. I'll admit that, I've noticed about a 175dps gain already, while minor compared to dps specs, thats a nice gain in tank stance I feel. So I have no complaints there.

Yeah after playing it, the changes made tanking feel clunky. Its not horrible, but the change just does't feel right. And maybe its just me, but they claimed it would do so much more damage now, the gain doesn't appear to justify what we lost in my opinion. Overall there are 3 changes I'd like to see: If they absolutely have to keep it on the GCD, just let it replace slash for tanking. Drop the cooldown to 1.5-2.0 seconds, bring the cost back up to 2-3 focus/rage, bump the damage up a little more. Right now it just doesn't fit well into tanking. Its something you have to use for a buff, but it doesn't do much else for us still. Warding Strike - Currently the focus/rage gain hurts this ability. I find myself no using it because I would end up wasting resources, and my damage reduction falls off. Increasing the cost of Retaliation like above would help, but you still have a (basically) DCD tied to a ability that isn't always being used. So- Guardian Strike - if the above change to Retaliation went through, the proc from GS wouldn't be needed. And the ability itself seems like a great fit to move our 3% damage reduction proc to. Also change the AoE mechanic to proc off of unsteady targets, not having Warding Strike active. This current setup means you would have to leap, sweep, Warding, GS, cyclone spam for trash pulls. If you use Combat Focus pre-pull WS is wasted, and WS itself is a low threat move. Changing it to proc from Unsteady would let us get back to Combat>Leap>Sweep>GS>Cyclone for AoE pulling.

Just going to hit this quick with some more points. 1.) You admit it was low level gameplay, which means low level gear and stats. Low level gear is never going to provide any type of boost that will actually be noticeable. The stat gains are just too small. Typically at those levels the only noticeable gain is in your health-pool, and even that is minor. +2 and +3 just doesn't do much, but at higher levels those +2 and +3s turn into +15/+20 which becomes noticeable. 2.) That is typical in any MMO that is not a twitch-based combat game. Combine that with the expectations of Star Wars combat and they designed the game correctly. You just couldn't have a class performing would should be an iconic ability in an instant, the genre just requires a certain amount of flair. 3.) This is a valid point. You can see that because after 3.0 the some of these changes are going to happen. Currently all talent trees are "top heavy", which again is typical of a MMO. Personally at lv55 (and soon to be lv60), a Guardian tank has what I fill to be the right amount of abilities to work with. Yes some are a little lackluster, but we really aren't bloated or starving for any. 4.) A couple different points here. I'm not sure what you meant by 'general aggro'. We aren't the strongest tank in regards to AoE but we can do alright. If you meant we just jump in and have aggro from the start by just being there, well that would be rather boring (and I'm sure most would agree). As for rotations, anytime you have abilities that provide "x bonus every x seconds" you're going to have a ideal way to use those abilities to get the most out of them. I can't even remember the last time I played a game that did not have some type of rotation in it. As tanks we are not there to dps, that is not our purpose; we are there to position/hold/control the target so the actual dps can kill it. If you want to tank then tank, if you want to dps then dps- you'll never be able to do both at the same time (unless you really out-gear the content). We do not need more critical, or damage, we are getting a free accuracy boost in 3.0; we already have abilities that debuff the boss accuracy, we have abilities that provide high threat, extra defenses, shielding. Not sure why you seem to think we need those when we have them. In the end, maybe you are a tank but just not a Guardian tank?

Like he said, with 3.0 only a few days away the discussion is really pointless now, but here is a fairly quick run down: 1/3 Accuracy & 2/2 Perseverance vs 3/3 and 0/2 (typical tank builds, I would assume you are talking tanks here since DPS specs typically include both) The debate is whether you gain enough strength bonus (for Blade Storm shield, dps/threat gain) to offset the occasional miss. My opinion on it was always this - the small gain you get from 6% isn't going to factor in much. I've never had a wipe where the only blame could be the tank didn't put out enough dps. Yeah you gain a little more EHP from the shielding proc, but again I've never seen it as something that will have a effect on a kill or not. Of course in both of the above situations you will have those 1-offs where a little more dps or another few hundred shield would have changed the outcome, those are the exceptions and not the rule. However, being 2% under the accuracy cap will lower your threat ceiling due to misses. And nothing could be worse than having a miss on your opener with-in the first 4 GCDs of a pull, unless your dps'ers suck lol. If your dps likes to push it hard as they can, the 2% accuracy lets them push the buttons a little harder. At the end of the day you had 2 choices: 3/3 with 0/2 and gear for defensive stats and gain some dps from augs (power) or 1/3 and 2/2 and trade some gear stats for accuracy, then fill in the rest with EHP/power It really isn't going to be game-breaking either way unless you want to crunch numbers to the abo****e-every-situation-covered the outcome is close enough in most raids to call it a toss up. Progression could be done with either spec (and I'm sure it has been). I've always been on the side of 3/3 and 0/2, I'm not there to dps, I'm there to hold aggro-position-let the real dps run wild; having misses would impact that too often for my tastes.

Im on the fence about this change, but here is what I'd rather have: Put it back on the GCD, keep it at 2 rage cost But also reduce the cooldown for tanks - use the talent for Force Choke/Stasis and change it to: Force Choke no longer needs channeled and generates extra threat. Also reduces the cooldown of Retaliation by X seconds (2 or 2.5 seems fine for now). Since they are wanting to remove ability bloat, that would let us almost completely replace slash wih Retaliation when tanking; ties into a pretty bland talent in our tree. And the addition to Force Choke is needed, when tanking its kinda lackluster, just some free resource when you have a open GCD. No reason we cant get a nice little threat bump to Choke, its a 1 minute cooldown ability after all.

While we won't need extra accuracy from gear, its not without its costs. We lose damage to gain that "free accuracy". In simple terms: slightly lower damage is a slightly lower threat ceiling, while dps numbers are expected to remain near current values. I'd much rather see them can this idea and do: Double the base cooldown on all taunts (less dps taunting in PvP which is the goal) Instead of +10% accuracy in tank stance; make it reduce taunt cooldowns by 50% DPS can only taunt every 60/90 seconds instead of 15/45- helps the PvP goal they want Tanks still get 15/45 second taunts. No change. Lessens the ability of DPS to taunt in PvP. Doesn't affect tanks in PvP/PvE at all.