This stupid is back in the game!!!! Good job devs !

I'll award you a quick one. "Stupid"!!! Cause 6k replies later you still didn't get the point. If you feel that's too harsh, rat me out to the moderators .

Justification - Because playing a game while in disadvantage it's not fun. Knowing that you have a default (beyond your means of control within the reference frame AKA you solo queued) disadvantage is enraging and the only logical conclusion is that the rule makers of the game ****ed up. Despite your personal experiences, logic&reality are cruel and say that, in general, grouped(organised) people will have better cohesion, communication and cooperation in achieving a common goal. If you can not comprehend that then "May god have mercy on your soul!". Ah also what the guy above me said .

Funny, from reading the last 5-6 pages of this thread a 'new to the forums' guy will get the impression that 80% of those who play in pre-mades are very bad players. OK now, pre-maders posting in this thread show of hands. Who's good and who's bad? I want a nice 80%bad-20%good ratio to fit my estimation. Now imagine that those 80% baddies will queue solo!!! My god, they will ruin the PvP in this game, please let them pre-made against PuGs so .... insert apocalyptic image here. Disclaimer! I pulled the 80% ratio out of my *** just like everybody else does on this thread. If you don't like the smell of that pull your own numbers out of your own ***. Tip use sarcasm detectors.

Hurt have you been by a mara , young padawan? Never should you QQ when a fresh bubu you have. Think straight you will not.

How tf comes, that after one year and 6k posts debating this, some people still don't understand that constructing a competing game on rules that make possible gross imbalance between the competing teams is bad game making? Pure and simple. Allowing for imbalance to exist will create the willingness for players to replicate and exploit the said imbalance. MMO make friends, queue frequency etc are all BS arguments. People will mainly chose the least resistance path to meet their goal (gearing up I would assume). Look at the ranked arena, 4-5 premade (if that) arenas, 15-20 ranked PuG. Why is that? Anyone? Disclaimer. There are players that enjoy pre-made PvP and queue in ranked arena as a group or used to queue for ranked 8vs8 WZs looking for stiff competition. This post is not about you, you are true competitors and I wish you victories and fun.

It is situational. If I have a healer behind me GBTF is more valuable since I can say "Used guarded" and the healer will focus heal me and in 4-5 seconds he can top heal me with some lucky crits and if i use my heal adrenal after GBTF. This gives the sent a second wind. And is common practice in pre-made groups. In pugs I use camo to break up when I'm about to die and run for the healer or WZ buffs holding GBTF as a back up if I'm engaged on low health after camo is off for a last stand brawl. GBTF allows you to stay in the face of the enemy dealing with him while getting healed, camo is an ex-filtrate ability but it relieves the pressure on opponent too allowing him to hamper your healer. That's my view in a nutshell, not pretending it's the absolute truth .

I play all 8 advanced classes at lvl 55. Some more the others and sent/mara is one of the others. If u put a 99% healing debuff on GBTF then it no longer is a get out of jail card. That plus a reduction of active rebuke from 30 to 20 seconds should get sents in line with the rest of the classes. Already said that but said it again cause i see some ppl like to make wild accusations w/o bothering to read through the thread. Next time when you want to talk about how great sent/mara is, first play one (see that goes both ways ).

I agree that it's not common for a sentinel to die during camo but that's the point of the ability, isn't it? As I stated in my previous post it doesn't really gives a third life to the sent as long as you don't stay there fidling with your dick waiting for the sent to reappear.

You can die during camo if opposition is quick enough to dump an AoE on you and of course you are low enough on life. Plus when camo comes up you can switch to healer and interrupt or stun. Nerfing camo will leave the class w/o an ex-filtration option and will leave sent/mara's relying only on saber ward's 3 minute CD which I think it's a bit too much.

It's possible that this game is not for you. Have you tried "Hello Kitty"? No, seriously, no need to pretend to be a competitive player when you enjoy playing cooperative gardening. Troll mode off! If you like the lore and you are so sure some classes are OP why don't you play them? Stop acting like a 2 years old "But I want my yellow nuki not this green ugly one" and give the green nuki a taste maybe you'll enjoy it after all. I'll give you that playing a sorc well is more difficult then playing a sent equally well but it is more rewarding. Now, stop whining start playing or go away .

Only issue I can see is that GBTF doesn't have a 99% reduction on incoming heals. This allows a sent, if backed by a competent healer, a second life. Also, maybe, active time for rebuke should be reduced from 30s to 20s.

STHU nugget, they are sparse modifiers not balance affecting issues. Again 3 minutes cool down and you can use it too. Oh your arena team likes to pile together for AoE heals then by all means u should eat grenades it's the nature of the beast. Meh, I'm wasting my breath, deed is done so good luck with your PvP.

This is a stupid change! Cyber grenades can not be spammed they are on a very long internal CD - 3 minutes. Plus they are available to anyone at a very modest price. They are just simplifying the game for the 5 button rotation crowd. But I really don't care since I'll adapt.

Sorry for being blunt but .. ********. If it happens frequently then you'll be able to document the obvious "bug" and ticket it. P.S. Oh common BW since when b*llsh*t is a such a bad word that needs censoring.

There is no cap delay you idiotic layers. At least not one that a player can perceive. Travel time on the speeder is about 14 seconds from mounting to dismounting. Even to mid turret will take you another 4 seconds and nobody experienced any capping delay. In the streamed video the first cap finishes at 30 seconds mark after speeders appearing. Considering the speeder travel time and channel time for the cap that OPs moved dauntingly fast. That counter scoundrel could have stopped it, maybe, but no other class could have done that which leads to the concussion that the roll is exploitable hence it needs a short internal cool down like 5-6 seconds, IMHO. But I might be wrong and there could be a better path to the truth .

Sam do yourself a favor and remove yourself from the forum. I hope you were drunk when spewing this cause i see no other excuse for such a load of crap. If this is sarcasm is a very bad form of it .

Look Cash, in order to calculate the impact of a variable in an equation you need to modify it while keeping the other variables constant or your results will be inconsistent and false. Pre-mades groups are not the only variable in play when it comes to balance a WZ's equation and by having another (like high player skill in the PuG group) with a high value can change the balance although the added value of the pre-made is still there but it isn't high enough to tip the balance for the PM group. As long as the voip and composition are not provided by the match making system then the PM group should hold the advantage if we consider player skill constant. I agree with you that in reality player skill is never constant that's why we get so different game experiences. I'll say again that PMs are not a bad thing in fact is the natural progression for anybody that likes to PvP but I stick to my opinion that the way match making uses PMs when forming matches can give very unbalanced results. I kid you not but when waiting for a RWZ to pop, we queued for regs and got an both 4 men groups in the same team. It was a sad sight and the other team got stomped hard although we are not the best PvPers around. Also true we got our groups pitted against each-other, in another round, which resulted in a ton of fun and friendly insults over mumble (my group won ).

Aren't those advantages enough when all other things are equal? And you have to agree that statistically more good player play in pre-mades then in PuGs, as skill is close related with time spent in-game and people that spend more time in game are more likely to be guilded and have like-minded play friends. The matter is simple enough, the fact that some benefit over the status quo over-complicates the issue. @Zunayson What's with the posting diarrhea? Less words more information please my eyes are bleeding. There are advantages and there are advantages. An advantage has the guy that holds an AK-47 over one that holds a knife also an advantage has the guy that is a better aim with an AK-47 over a guy that has an AK-47 but is a lousy shot. You must see that those advantages are not equal in order of magnitude, even the lousy shot will fill you full of lead before you manage to use the knife.

The possibility to team-up is a must have for any MMORPG that wants to stay on the market. Pre-mades are not intrinsically bad but the way the match making system uses them is sometimes bad. If you want to argue that pre-mades have no advantage over PuGs, sorry I won't go into that, I don't have any desire to teach you basic logic. Easy to follow demonstration: 1 Pre-mades are good! 2 Match making system is bad (flawed or non existent) 3 PMades x MM system = often bad (due to uneven teams in order of capability) 4 If you don't get it, sorry! One more thing. Veteran players tend to group more then green ones, and assuming that most people learn and get better with experience, that creates a skill gap as-well. I do think that lately they improved the match making system but it continues to favor quick forming of matches over balance so at odd hours very odd matches may be experienced.

Simple enough!!! Split queues so grouped players get more grouped players in their team so they don't get dragged down. Oh you don't like that !?! Damn. Then remove solo queue button and force everyone that PvP to do it with a group. You don't like that either? S*** man, I'm out of suggestions. Maybe praying that the other team gets a full PuG would help your low skill pre-made win some. So pray hard and if Jesus is not too busy he'll (oups meant He'll) grant you your wish . P.S. You could go get your shotgun and play with your barrel of fish, if SWTOR PvP is too much of a challenge. Invite your pre-made group over and you should have a blast . Edited for politically correctness: Sorry for implying that Jesus is THE GOD, my bad. You should pray to w/e deity you hold true even the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Ha ha, he's upset he can't push, leap and smash. Why cry about CC immunity of the sniper other then that? I mean sorcs and mercs can always LOS with ease while pumping the sniper full of DoTs or insta explosive **** despite the HDown. Ops and sins have their cloak and can pop in for the fight at a time of their choosing. And warriors have so little CC outside the tank spec that they couldn't care less about the CC immunity. Well I guess it sucks when you AOE mezz everyone and the sniper is still awake and roots you so you can't score . Selout, nice name for a back stabbing scoundrel . And yes you do look good when you can put aside your own good for the general good. Too good to be true . P.S. Yeah I know cover mechanic causes unbalances too. Cause you can't leap to or interrupt the sniper, so why don't we just get rid of that, give him a cannon and call him a melee free-kill. Everyone will be happy then!

You have no mobility while "Hunker Down" is active. HDown is a self root if you move you lose it . Some of the perks attached to it are high in the SS tree and they are good indeed. Are they over the top? I guess it depends on the POV . Hightail is good until one learns to slow (yes it does look like a waste of GCD but it really isn't). Kinda like grav was before people learned to interrupt . The ability itself is a class defining one. It defines how a GS plays and how others play against it. P.S. @OP I would very much like to see a picture of your GS. I wonder how your stats are since you feel so OP ? Edit: How can you draw conclusions about balance when you play only one class? Try to PuG a bit maybe getting ROFL stomped will change your perspective.

How can one call himself a PvPer and then go on and on about gear boggles my mind!!! Why do you care about PvErs and how the PvE progression is thought out? PvP and PvE have different objectives, in PvP to defeat other human players in a duel of wits and hand-to-eye coordination and in PvE to overcome a scripted challenge. PvP is about on the spot improvisation while PvE about executing a plan after gathering the means for the execution. Why are you so keen in splitting the player base in two, by denying PvErs access to PvP, is beyond me. You'll say "But PvPers are denied access to PvE as well". No they are not!!! You can PvE as much as you want you'll just have to start from the bottom of the challenge progression ladder. You'll say "It should be the same for PvP". No it shouldn't!!! First time you set foot in a WZ you meet your biggest challenge, other human beings . "But I want to be rewarded for my awesome deeds in PvP". And you are but if you expect that for the time spent you should be granted a free "I win" then you are expecting for nothing less the P2W. Time=money => time spent=money spent => money spent for "i win" mode = P2W . And nobody likes P2W or so I'm told . If you are getting owned over and over again by players wearing bolstered PvE gear, relax, it's not a tragedy, you just suck at PvP. P.S. If from the above you gathered that I endorse buggy, exploitable systems I urge you to pay for some reading comprehension lessons.

Well forgive us for arguing with words maybe you are the kind of guy that likes to be argued at with clubs. Thick skull? Ideas get better through if beaten in? Different sounds for different things is the agreed way of communication for adult **** sapiens. Sorry if we try to get into the depth of things instead of going " Uh Oh me stopped , me couldn't move, me clubbed to death, argh me hates it so much" Mezz =/ Stun. While they're both CC skills they are different enough to require different words to describe them, it is not just an attempt to mesmerize you while we steal your lunch money .