Laurelinde Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) And yet you yourself are guilty of the exact same thing earlier in this thread when you stated that anyone who has had a bad experience with PUGs (particuarly cross-realm PUGs) are 'jerks' and 'the common denominator' for badness - not to mention extrapolating that said people's friends don't actually want to play with them. And all of this was based on one comment expressing cynicism due to bad experiences. So pot, meet kettle. And before you start on me, I was a regular raider and a popular member of a WoW guild, am a current raider and longstanding member of a LOTRO kin, and have made RL friendships through both games. Nevertheless, I gave up pugging years ago, even before crossrealm LFG, because life is too short to deal with some of the nastiness that can get thrown around by people who think that logging onto the internet means they can log off of human decency or respect for anyone else. So as far as the tool goes, I don't much care one way or the other, because I won't be using it. But you can't assume anything about people who are for or against it based solely on that fact. Edit: Yeesh this thread moves fast - was in response to 'confirmation bias.' Edited February 11, 2012 by Laurelinde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyDale Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) I am disappointed to see the cross realm LFG tool being talked about as a future addition to the game. I was really hoping to keep that out of TOR just because of it's ability to destroy community in a game. I would be all for LFG server wide but cross realm is a no go for me. I am SO sick of this "destroy the community" argument. It makes no sense. Just because it takes away you're right to single out certain players and ostracize them doesn't mean it's going to "ruin the community". Like I told that guy last night, if anything "ruins communities" it's people getting frustrated and bored because they can't find a group and quit the game. Now that is what really "destroys communities". Bottom line is this: If you don't want to use it, then don't. But for those of us who do want to use it, leave us in peace and let us. Advertising yourself like a prostitute in the fleet for hours isn't "socializing", and it's weird how so many people seem to think it is. Getting really sick of this whole "community" thing... Edited February 11, 2012 by JeremyDale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seuria Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Its not a good thing when they have to dumdown the content to accommodate the people useing the tool. Have a look at at patch 4.3 and see what looking for group and looking for raid have done to that game. Right. I've played WoW since long before there was a LFD tool (back to vanilla, in fact), and my experience with using the tool, day in and day out, has been almost universally positive. I've had worse experience in same server raid PuGs then I generally do in LFD or LFR, and those problems in the random tools usually amount to poor dps or my not getting healed, as a dps, from unavoidable damage. Rarely, in several years of using the feature at least five times week, have I run across the supposedly horrid behavior everyone cites, and when I do I find I have zero problem with others agreeing to kick them out. Also its not a fact having LFG/LFR in a mmorpg is a good thing in trying to maintain customers and grow if wow or rift are anything to go by its the opposite. How many subs have both of them lost this year? There is, of course, zero data to back this up. Point in fact, as per the recent investor call the glut of casual features and content WoW added might have cauterized the bleed out of subs over the last year. Imagine that, giving access to your game and allowing people to play rather than beat their head against some bottleneck tends to make a majority happy. Strange concept, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothear Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 There's one simple reason what you wrote is untrue... There's nothing stopping you from making a group with your friends and then queuing into the LFG tool as a group. Best of both worlds. You get to group only with your friends AND you get the rewards for using the queue tool. Except I'm not talking about friends, don't think I ever mentioned friends. What it kills is the random PuG that people put together outside their friends list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Except I'm not talking about friends, don't think I ever mentioned friends. What it kills is the random PuG that people put together outside their friends list. Nothing's stopping you from starting one of those groups with strangers and then queuing into the tool. Again, best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrooperShield Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I see value in both sides and I propose a solution: ---Cross Server Ignore List--- It will enable people to find players to complete Flashpoints which lack player interest while still removing the harrasing players from your Q. So for example if player "X" is a big !@#$% you have the option to add him to your Cross server ignore list removing him from being seeded into your potential group. THe ignore list will then have to be change to include the server name before the player (I.E. "The Constant - HUNGSOLO"). Who know if this will get read...opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Depredator Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 ... life is too short to deal with some of the nastiness that can get thrown around by people who think that logging onto the internet means they can log off of human decency or respect for anyone else. Heh, well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illgot Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) If you want "community" don't use the tools for cross realm grouping. If you want to play the game, use the tools for cross realm grouping. Edited February 11, 2012 by illgot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyBoy Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Except I'm not talking about friends, don't think I ever mentioned friends. What it kills is the random PuG that people put together outside their friends list. You can still advertise in general for a random pug on your server to join a group. Whether or not people will choose to use the LFG tool instead is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I see value in both sides and I propose a solution: ---Cross Server Ignore List--- It will enable people to find players to complete Flashpoints which lack player interest while still removing the harrasing players from your Q. So for example if player "X" is a big !@#$% you have the option to add him to your Cross server ignore list removing him from being seeded into your potential group. THe ignore list will then have to be change to include the server name before the player (I.E. "The Constant - HUNGSOLO"). Who know if this will get read...opinions? I don't see why this feature wouldn't be included, if Bioware is smart. WoW has this already. If you put someone in your ignore list, the LFD tool will not group you with them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyBoy Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I don't see why this feature wouldn't be included, if Bioware is smart. WoW has this already. If you put someone in your ignore list, the LFD tool will not group you with them again. You also have battletags now so you can add people to your friends list (without giving them your email/real name) cross-server if you like them and want to continue running with them. If anything Blizzard is destroying the barrier that servers represent to "communities" and allowing communities to be whoever the player chooses to associate with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorelthesecond Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 WoW didn't dumb down the content. They made a new category of raids designed to be PUGged. Nothing changed on the normal or heroic modes. Hahaha if you really think thats true you have never played the game. The 3 new hot heroics were crap in 4.3 They had to make them short easy and boreing because people were saying heroics were to hard for pugs who use lfg. Also dont even get me started on what a joke of a raid ds was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothear Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Nothing's stopping you from starting one of those groups with strangers and then queuing into the tool. Again, best of both worlds. My experience obviously differs from yours then as what I saw in WoW is 'join LGD - insert random rude word' once this functionality was provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpuax Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Most gamers aren't interested in the community, they aren't on long enough to build relationships and therefore just want to be able to dive in with a quick flashpoint or two before logging off. This pretty much sums up the issue perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seuria Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You also have battletags now so you can add people to your friends list (without giving them your email/real name) cross-server if you like them and want to continue running with them. If anything Blizzard is destroying the barrier that servers represent to "communities" and allowing communities to be whoever the player chooses to associate with. Not to mention there are already websites cropping up that organize cross-server raiding via the RealID system since Blizzard implemented the option in 4.3.2. Bad for the community indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarr Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I am SO sick of this "destroy the community" argument. It makes no sense. Just because it takes away you're right to single out certain players and ostracize them doesn't mean it's going to "ruin the community". Like I told that guy last night, if anything "ruins communities" it's people getting frustrated and bored because they can't find a group and quit the game. Now that is what really "destroys communities". Bottom line is this: If you don't want to use it, then don't. But for those of us who do want to use it, leave us in peace and let us. Advertising yourself like a prostitute in the fleet for hours isn't "socializing", and it's weird how so many people seem to think it is. Getting really sick of this whole "community" thing...aspergers ftw? most normal people attempt to establish relationships with people and attempt to make friends by simple banter in groups with new people so they can find reliable and interesting individuals to play with during dungeons. unlike staying silent the whole time in a LFD group trying to do it as fast as you can so you dont have to talk to these people you are grouped with. MMOS for the most part are a social community. its like one of my friends always use to say- "we are actually playing a chat room with a game in the background". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumperPenn Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) I would argue, for those who say there is no community in TOR, that a server wide LFG would help build relationships with people and build a community beyond the people you already know. For example, you get in a group with a good player you friend that player. Then start grouping with that player more, opening up his friends to you and yours to them. That in turn increases the number of players you can look to for running flashpoints and what not. Things snowball from there. Cross server does not accomplish this. It isn't supposed to that, it is supposed to let people who can't find groups or who have to wait longer than they'd like or can spare find groups to run what is the vast majority of what the 'mmo' activities in this game are. For low population servers or servers with lots of hermits (like myself) this is something some or many might really want. I'm introverted by nature and when I made efforts to 'reach out' on my light(dead) server I found I was wasting more time trying to group up with someone than just playing solo. So I did what I naturally do, solo'd what I could and out leveled heroics then ran them later to 'experience' them. Now I'm on my out and I frankly don't give a **** about grouping up or being in a guild. I did and wanted to experience group play and getting to know some other people, maybe even try pvp even though I generally hate it but since my server is so 'dead' I gave up on that. Being able to get together with others could have fanned that flame and gotten me to try more/again and even join a smaller guild just to have a few people that might be around to do stuff with. Since I never did I don't miss it and don't care about it anymore, I barely care about finishing my main's story. I doubt I am the only one who was put off trying to group/join a guild, by a low population server. QFT. Cross-server tools completely destroyed whatever community WoW had left at the time. It encouraged people to act like douchebags, because there was no way for them to obtain a 'bad rep' on any particular server. Not to mention that making friends through groups became nigh-impossible, due to the fact that they'd simply vanish back to their own server once the instance was over, never to be seen again. I will admit though that WoW's community was/is far more toxic than the one I've seen so far in SWTOR, so maybe if this is implemented, it will work out better here. I hope so. There could be tools in place to have people group with those on their server before they could 'reach out' to other servers. Kind of like a queue if there are less than 5 people flagged to do a FP/whatever on your server than you can 'access' other servers for others flagged for the same FP. There might even be tools to rate group members when a collection of randoms from different servers get together negative flag/rep from a majority of the group counts as a strike x strikes and you have to wait several days to a week before gaining access to other servers for FP/etc. All of that might help but it would actually take BW to make it and implement it. I doubt they would go to the trouble to make it that robust and simply put it in for all to access others trying to enjoy the game and not have to wait around for others on the server they are stuck on. From a business aspect it makes more sense to let your customers enjoy themselves however they can so they keep being customers over making them build a community on a server to force them to work together. Annoyed customers not able to play 'easily' (not wasting time trying to find people) are less likely to keep playing if the majority of what you have for them to do is like that (ie end game content is FP/WZ/OPS). As far as community it is always better to make 'friends' with your local neighbors rather than trying to 'drive' hours to meetup with people elsewhere. If people wanted a community it helps for them to be 'social' with eachother and join guilds. *I* think most people are running around on their own and the low limits on populations/instances plus multiple servers don't really help foster communities. If there are communities they are mostly on heavy servers the rest are somewhere struggling to not be a handful of people or loners. Edited February 11, 2012 by JumperPenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xioix Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 My sig. Check it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You also have battletags now so you can add people to your friends list (without giving them your email/real name) cross-server if you like them and want to continue running with them. If anything Blizzard is destroying the barrier that servers represent to "communities" and allowing communities to be whoever the player chooses to associate with. I'm no fan of WoW, but I'm DEFINITELY a fan of Blizzard. They've done more to advance MMORPGs than anyone, ever. They're always coming up with seriously cool new stuff. Just the idea of being able to invite friends from other servers into your group and do dungeons with them whenever you want is frigging revolutionary, and seriously awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaphik Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Having a cross server queuing system defeats the purpose of having different servers to begin with. If the technology is there to allow us to join flashpoint and warzone instances with anyone, why not make it so we can join any planetary instance anywhere? What we need is some time for the server communities to develop. A global looking for group chat that is on by default is necessary. A LFG tool that puts you in a same server only group and ports you to the entrance of the flashpoint would alleviate a lot of the problems that people seem to have. If BioWare gave us these two tools and then six months I believe grouping would work out much better. Guilds and co-op groups would have an easier time, and it would bring back the social aspect to belonging to a particular server. Of course, the whole problem is deeper; it is the attitudes of the majority of players these days. People only want to group to get the rewards, and they want to spend as little time as possible in group content. Which is mind-boggling, because group content is the whole point of getting and/or needing better gear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leenbh Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Confirmation bias in action. No, just read. I've noticed this to and I'm FOR the tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothear Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I don't see why this feature wouldn't be included, if Bioware is smart. WoW has this already. If you put someone in your ignore list, the LFD tool will not group you with them again. Personally I would rather they build new content instead of spending resources on LFG, then spending more resources on a cross realm ignore list. But that's just me I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halbarz Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 i only have one reply to this: @the OP there is one thing i learned in this game so far and seen this in many games. All what the WoW community is asking they also get, how bad it might be for the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 My sig. Check it. Stop posting that as something real and just tell people straight up it's a photoshop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Personally I would rather they build new content instead of spending resources on LFG, then spending more resources on a cross realm ignore list. But that's just me I guess What good is a load of new content if only a tiny minority plays it because forming groups is still too hard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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