The zombie event in WoW before Wrath was just a good old-fashioned time. They intentionally slowed zombified players down and didn't give them any sort ranged attack so even low levels could outrun them on foot. On a RP server it was amazing. Ghouls would randomly run out of the catacombs below the Cathedral, plagued rats spewed out of the Stockades, and player made quarantines and skirmish lines isolated entire districts in Stormwind. The only inconvenience I experienced was having to move my bank alt because the AHs in SW and Ironforge were frequently overrun.

Because forced grouping isn't the only aspect of community and being social. I recognize your name well enough from Thorium Brotherhood, which was a RP server. You should know by now just from that experience that there are a bunch of things to do -- with your server community -- besides instance.

Actually, it isn't much of a "NO U." It would seem Bioware wants a higher participation rate -- likely because at level cap it's an important part of the game and will increase retention. You guys are essentially arguing in favor of a niche crowd while Bioware is targeting a considerably larger and more diverse group of people.

But there's zero evidence that it would be the same percentage of participation, and the fact remains that Blizzard has stated time and time again that, yes, LFD has brought in a much larger percentage of the playerbase then was previously active in instances. It's particularly enormous in leveling instances. Why is restriction suddenly a good thing again?

Your last line, in and of itself is faulty in that you're making assumption that just as many people would have put PuGs together to run the content as those who queue for half of it and let it go afterwards. I know I probably wouldn't bother PuGGing it at this point, but it's a good, free 250 vp for someone like me. Likewise, you completely ignored the fact that participation is way up across the board.

The problem with this sort of reasoning is that, historically, LFG tools have brought more people into dungeons then they have chased away. The best data we have is from WoW, and MMO-C points out that 34% of the active lvl 85 population has completed Dragon Soul on LFR while only 18% of the active population completed regular Firelands throughout the entire tier's life as current content. Blizzard has stated over and over that LFG has brought far, far more people into instances then anything else they've tried.

You do realize that the North American playerbase 5 to 6 times higher then the number of annual passes, correct? Either way, we're not talking about WoW so much as your ancedotal evidence -- which is precisely what it is.

Not to mention there are already websites cropping up that organize cross-server raiding via the RealID system since Blizzard implemented the option in 4.3.2. Bad for the community indeed.

Right. I've played WoW since long before there was a LFD tool (back to vanilla, in fact), and my experience with using the tool, day in and day out, has been almost universally positive. I've had worse experience in same server raid PuGs then I generally do in LFD or LFR, and those problems in the random tools usually amount to poor dps or my not getting healed, as a dps, from unavoidable damage. Rarely, in several years of using the feature at least five times week, have I run across the supposedly horrid behavior everyone cites, and when I do I find I have zero problem with others agreeing to kick them out. There is, of course, zero data to back this up. Point in fact, as per the recent investor call the glut of casual features and content WoW added might have cauterized the bleed out of subs over the last year. Imagine that, giving access to your game and allowing people to play rather than beat their head against some bottleneck tends to make a majority happy. Strange concept, huh?

Basic fact in all of this. Bioware -- as does Blizzard -- knows exactly who is participating in group work, how often, and how much of the level cap population is actually participating in instanced content. Blizzard played with LFG tools for years before settling on one that upped participation significantly. Bioware most likely looked at that participation percentage and moved right towards cross server LFG tools. Why? Not enough people are participating. Anyone with a brain could have predicted this, and it's very, very likely that introducing such a tool will up participation and increase high level player retention. In short, the anti-LFG folks were wrong. Again.

I'll answer in the name of being productive, but only in that sense. I'm not really the fangirl type. Please take it is that. :-) What WoW has going on right now. Right now, this moment. You have all the aforementioned things, but also three concurrent events are active (Lunar Festival, Love Is In the Air, and Darkmoon Faire). The Faire was totally redone with 4.3, and the other two added at least one new item for players to work towards. It's actually something of an insanely busy week, particularly if you ignored the first two weeks of the Lunar Festival or are trying to do it on an alt still. Noblegarden (Easter) is around the corner as well! On top of that I'm still gearing up. Since I don't really raid anymore, I'm taking the alternative path offered by Blizzard. Every week I acquire and reach the valor point cap, and these points are awarded for doing random dungeons, looking for raid, and defeating regular or hardmode raid bosses. I've been capping every week since 4.3 came out (usually doing five hardmode 5 mans and a the front 4 bosses in LFR) and I'm still two weeks away from finishing up with the VP vendor. That essentially has made this a three month process. Blizzard is also promising further alternatives in the next expansion. They'll be adding VP as a reward for dailies and for completing the new 2 or 3 man PvE scenarios. They're also adding in the much maligned pet battles, but as someone who chases achievements and collects such things (I have 135 or so pets, currently) I'm excited for it. Fear my Alliance Balloon, folks! Anyway, for me, I prefer WoW at this point, but your mileage may very. My opinion certainly doesn't dictate anyone else's or present anything but, well, my opinion.

I can understand why anyone would be reluctant to help out if you have to level 50 and Bioware has little history of actually listening to their external testers. In my experience, the best and most polished games are those that have a vigorous testing period filled with those who actually want to improve the game through PTS testing. It just blows my mind they don't have a player copy service or allow access to lvl 50 premades. I should think these features would have appeared at the end of the beta testing to properly test endgame material. Pushing out changes and then gauging how the community at large deals with them seems a disaster in the making. 1.1 Ilum was bad, but without load testing on the PTS something much worse is likely to come along sooner or later.

This is a fundamental flaw. It pre-assumes that everyone is chasing the same things in a given game, and that's just not true. I don't aspire to raid. I could do that in either game I play, and I'm perfectly content to piddle around doing my own thing, grouping when I want, raiding when I feel like it, and soloing when the mood strikes me.

It doesn't need to change so much as each game needs to find a proper balance for its playerbase. Some hardcore raiders will ALWAYS complain, they'll always harken back to a golden age or raid, and they'll always want more content aimed for them. A game needs to grow out as much as up, though. Blizzard learned that the hard way, and hopefully Bioware will realize this fundamental fact.

Today, in WoW, I was out in Icecrown one shotting mobs for charms so I can buy a pink flamingo. Why? A holiday began ingame today. I also chain ran regular BRC for the roses that grant an achievement for guildies. Hunter tanking, ftw. I killed the holiday boss, too, and I plan to do that every day. I even went out to Darkmoon Faire and played all the games, picked up all the profession quests, and am in the process of finishing those off right now. Last night I ran a friend (who just started playing after Christmas) through BWL with a good friend, and while she died we all had a good time, laughed, and spent a few hours running around the place. Today, I'm going to take her through Blood Furnace. Plus, I still have two heroics and LFR to run before the Tuesday reset, and I am in no way limited to running just three. Since I've mined those three new ones for all the gear I can acquire from them I'm free up to queue for any of the heroics since they all award the same VP. That's, what, 14 or 15, on random, and I only need to do 5 a week with the front half of LFR to VP cap? Hands down, the old ones are actually better to run. Older enchanting mats sell far better than the stuff you can DE from the new ones given how common maelstrom crystals have become. I'm making oodles of cash selling that stuff every week. Note I didn't say a word about SWTOR. One thing I've noticed that WoW and SWTOR have in common is that the people who ***** about them concentrate all their efforts into one area and then complain when development can't keep up with them. Different game, same type of people everyone wishes would just quit.

Yup, but they're being rather quiet about the whole affair. I'm not even sure I'm interested if any of the rumors are true. My point really, is that those proclaiming SWTOR as the future are really missing the bus. That's no reason not to enjoy the game if you do, or to continue with it if it, at some point, does actually slip and begins to lose subs. I am canceling SWTOR myself, but I'm not resentful or angry about it. I gave Bioware my reasons, but it all really comes back to the fact that I like WoW better, particularly the future plans laid out. I could care less of who wins the sub battle so much as I care that both games remain functional and fun for those playing them.

It's becoming obvious that neither WoW nor SWTOR are the future of much of anything. The next generation of MMOs aren't going to share the same model as the current giants. But, even if they do, then Bioware is going to have actual competition from Blizzard, and it won't be in the form of an aging WoW, but rather a game that is coming from a studio filled to the brim with experienced MMO developers. More than likely, though, WoW, SWTOR, and Rift will all fade as whatever is coming next finally arrives within the next couple of years. They'll continue on, but it's very unlikely any game currently out will ever reach the heights WoW did.

Right, and if you look at my posting history I'm actually a Jedi Sentinel with lots of info on trying to help others. Is the class "difficult?" Yes and no. It breaks the rule of being easy to pick up and hard to master, which is my point. But, then, is also plays like a LOT like a BC era fury warrior before WoW decided built in healing was a good idea for the spec. I'm not saying whether this is a good or bad thing, but honestly, it's just... familiar.

Right, but that's sort of the intention in WoW. Game is older, everyone is at cap. hell, it's even at the end of an expansion. From what I've heard raiding isn't particularly difficult in SWTOR, though.

"Easy to pick up, hard to master." There's a reason only 12% of the active level cap population killed the top boss on regular last tier, hon.

Who? Is that the name of that homeless guy who jumped aboard my ship on Hoth and just stands in the corner? Oh, dunno about customizations.

Yeah, this. I had been collecting blue and orange gear for T7 for a few days as I finished up my class quest, I made a glut of medpacs and stims through my biochem, forwent my speeder training in case I needed the cash for repair money, and.... .... One shot him. He's actually easier then Valis and Angral now, and those two seem to be the most complained about. Oh well, at least I had the cash on hand for my speeder.

Hit 50 yesterday, and never even so much as brought Doc out of the medbay downstairs. I went with Kira until forced to take T7 out for the final quests (and I had the gear ready for him despite what seemed to be a considerable nerf to the whole area). I was a Watchman specced Sentinel. The only place I ever had any trouble while using Kira was in the early quests of the Corellia story sections. I left, bought her a new hilt and new armor mods for her orange gear, and we came back and worked the place. Honestly, if you work out a solid way of taking mob packs using Kira is not only viable, but can work quite well. If I took damage it was generally during the course of those regular mob packs until I figured out that sending Kira in first to the tightest cluster (so her AoE would grab them up) and then jumping in myself. Apply liberal amounts of Master Strike, Bladestorm, and Camo when you grab unwanted aggro and and you'll emerge with nearly full health everytime. if Kira takes a substantial amount of damage (rare for me), dismiss and resummon or mount and dismount. She's back to full. I really got her to shine on elites, though, and this is easy enough if you aggro trade. Send her in, jump in yourself, hit overload, zealous, cauterize, and then grab them with stasis. By the time stasis falls off you'll have aggro so pacify them, wait for that to expire while dpsing, pop saber ward, wait for that to fall off, and then camo. Bam, Kira has aggro again, and if you've had Zen rolling across the fight she'll have a mountain of health. Haven't had that many elites really have time to beat on Kira when she has aggro the second time. They're usually dead before they do much more damage. I did notice I'm in the minority, though. I'm pretty heavy into extreme soloing with my WoW hunter so rolling with a pet and no healer (except chimera shot these days) is sort of second nature. So is understanding mitigation and aggro dancing, when necessary. Part of the fun of it for me.

I actually sat around waiting for rest bonus to accrue and I hit 50 yesterday. I'd hardly call THAT rushing. That argument doesn't work anymore, I agree. The simple fact is that dictating to your playerbase how they should play is the one certain way to destroy that playerbase. The fact that I just watched one game try to do that and fail makes me faceplam that another is doing the same thing. I'll make this simple. Being able to alt is good, being able to have a sustainable endgame is good. Being able to do both is pure win.

Except that what you're essentially saying is the same thing. It is the "correct" way to play this game to roll alts. It is incorrect to seek sustainability in endgame. There's really a simple problem here. The design of this game essentially tries to invert the equation, and the cracks are pretty evident to anyone who knows what to look for. Look at it this way. On November 29th, patch 4.3 dropped in World of Warcraft. In a much shorter time frame this game has launched, and I've consumed enough content to level to 50 once, level to 28, and roll a few mixed alts. In the same timeframe ( I picked up SWTOR after Christmas, and she picked up WoW at roughly the same time) a friend who is brand new to WoW has gotten one character to level 55. Obviously, there's a level of familiarity and efficiency involved on my part, but that's not the kicker. In a longer timeframe (since 4.3) my level capped hunter has been valor point capping every week, and I'm still 4 to 5 weeks from obtaining my personal gear goal. And we're just comparing an endgame patch to a full game. Like I said: Sustainability. Now and forever solo content will always be the most rapidly consumed, and banking on that not to happen is a recipe for disaster.