yes but its the cold hard truth. ever since mmos were invented its always been about the grind in some way. and i am one of the ones that enjoy the grind. otherwise i wouldnt be playing an mmo. (not this one anymore).

i remember 1 hit kills from glass cannons. i wouldnt call that "pvp".

and a lvl 10 says that the warzones at 10-49 bracket are not fun because they are not on a level playing field with a lvl 49 because they do not have access to all their classes abilities and training points. that one ability that level 10 has may do as much damage as a lvl 49, but the other abilities are not there. defensive, knockbacks, stuns, etc. expertise is broke now in my opinion but i can see why mmos choose to use that stat. also at max level there needs to be something to grind for because doing the same thing "just for fun" over and over becomes tedious and just, well, unfun. 10 to 49 you have incentive to keep grinding the warzones. for experience, credits, lvl 20 and lvl 40 orange gear. at lvl 50 all we have is credits and gear.

well what this mmo is, is a gear grind in pvp and pve. once you come to acknowledge and accept that fact then you may have fun in doing it. also, i (and many others) would have gotten bored a lot sooner doing the same content over and over for the past few months if there was no carrot on a stick.

i know i did.

nah our money is worth just as much as those that pve. what carrot on the stick would they implement for pvp if they took out the expertise gear and relied on buffs? because there needs to be something there to keep grinding from getting boring. something there to feel like you accomplish something. your response is like pvpers asking for them to remove top tier raid gear so someone in green gear can do raids efficiently. well what would be the purpose of doing a raid more than once (and seeing the content) if you were not trying to get gear?

the main reason for expertise in these mmos is to keep the hard to get pve items out of the pvp side of things and not require those that solely pvp to have to do pve content to be viable in matches. the easiest way to fix the current pvp expertise imbalance is for bioware to implement a pvp que system that checks every persons expertise rating and to match them with others with the same or near the same ratings. its what i used to want in wow, but never happened wows dungeon finder does this somewhat, it locks out those who do not have a high enough ilevel from certain dungeons. it wouldnt be hard to make that lockout a range in numbers. that way all those with 0 to 500 expertise could be teamed up with each other and go against the same bracket. same with 500 to 800 expertise, and 800 to 1100, and then all 1200 and above. it doesnt seem like it would be hard, and it would keep the warzones balanced. all they need is to make brackets of expertise ratings. (edit: of course it would need to be an optional system. because next year there may not be many people with alts looking to pvp and it would be impossible for those players to group/join a wz without the highest rated gear) so make it an option to be able to join groups that are at your level or in a match like they are now). edit 2: some of us only like pve on occasion in mmos. we like mmo pvp. and if they remove the gear system those of us in that boat wouldnt have a "carrot on a stick" to keep paying to play.

i gave the game more than a chance. been subscribed since day 1. i unsubscribed yesterday, but due to the free month i will have an active account until june. i am so disgusted with the pvp changes they did in 1.2 that i will not log in until i see in their patch notes they reverted the changes to expertise to pre 1.2. i know it wont happen, so i will not contribute to the life of their community on the servers i play on and allow them to be the ghost towns they are. heres the thread i made with the comment i left in the comment section of the unsubscribe page. it sums up some of the main reasons why i clicked "unsubscribe". http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=439730 ill either go back to wow or just wait for GW2. i havent decided yet.

my reasons: 1. the developers removed ilum. Ilum was trash in the design, development, and release stages. It was total garbage from the time they started coding it. It never worked. That's why it's gone. It wasn't even an attempt it was so bad. Utter garbage and a waste of development resources. before they took it out we had the weekly and daily quest we could do (i could get the weekily done (kill 150 people or get 150 marks) in one hour or less there. they took our dailys out and left us with 1 daily and 1 weekly that we have to do warzones for. now i get teamed up with people in pugs that have no gear (when i i normally have a chance to play, to attempt my dailiies. it usually takes a week now to get a daily done on my server because everyone has apparently quit or went to fatman. they have over 30 pve dailes and just 2 pvp dailies now. 3. 1.2 expertise changes took the fun out of warzones. now its die before you can get 1 complete ability rotation off and stand behind a door waiting for the "respawn timer door" to open. It's not that bad imo, but it could use some help. Bioware copied WoW's "pvp in a box" model, along with the tiered gear. I was expecting something evolutionary in the least, not a copy/paste job. 4. your game plays horrible even on the most advanced computers. hundreds of threads on your forums and thousands of videos on youtube show how bad the game performs and that is the real reason ilum was took out. What?! The game rendering clientside is not the same as the networking code that optimizes client and server communication. Each has its optimizations and specific code sets. Your hardware, the client side code for game rendering, the number and latency to, servers between you and the host, and the server farm itself hosting your session all play a part in your experience. Good lord you're way out in left field here. 13. did i mention that your game is a directx 9 game and it plays horrible on ALL high end systems???? Again, you're not talking to this clearly at all. Generalizations about systems you don't know. The game itself runs well, albeit not perfect, on most systems, including mine and my friend's. just watch my ilum videos in my signature or the one comparing bf3 to this games performance and you will see what im talking about. if you think that video bf3 comparing the performance of civil war is decent performance then that explains why you said this. 30 frames a second in a pc game is NOT "running well". 30fps is just PLAYABLE. BARELY. (comment i left on the unsubscribe page that will more than likely be ignored)

see my signature videos. (that doesnt look like driving in circles) the reason you have never experienced "lag" issues is because you drove in circles on ilum and never actually expereinced the "pvp" side of things there. again look at my videos of ilum in my signature. forgot to add, your pc is not "high end". its medium/low end now. my rig (when built) was an enthusiast rig, now its more along the lines of mid tier and its got a evga sr2 classified mobo, 2.4 ghz intel xeon OC to 3.4, 12 gigs of corsair xms3 ddr3 1600mhz ram, evga gtx580sc, 1500w silverstone psu, 80gig intel ssd bootdrive (with swtor installed) 2 wd 1 tb 7200 caviar blue hdds.

you dont know what your talking about, my responses are in orange my reasons: 1. the developers removed ilum. Ok, more pvp content is content nonetheless, ilum can not sustain pvp due to game engine i didnt say no content, i said they removed ilum in which they hyped all to hell and never could get right to run in a decent manner (see videos in my sig) 2. there never was any incentive for players to have world pvp and the developers designed every world to where all quests were done in seperate areas for both factions. i leveled from 1 to 50 and only had 5 pvp experiences and those 5 experiences were because i went out and hunted for pvp. You can not force players into a certain content, best they can do is make it possible (pvp servers). i play on a pvp server, and they could have put a set of quests that warned in the questline that the player would be going into the territory of the opposite faction but give better rewards than regular pve quests. that would have been incentive and not forced because people could choose to not do them. 3. 1.2 expertise changes took the fun out of warzones. now its die before you can get 1 complete ability rotation off and stand behind a door waiting for the "respawn timer door" to open. If you are undergeared yep thats how it feels like, however when u get properly geared this problem will disappear. It is not the games fault, it is yours for being undergeared.Same gear progression in PvE, you can not complete harder operation modes without the appropriated gear. wrong. my bounty hunter has 1261 expertise in all augmented warhero gear, if more than one person targets me im down before i can get through 1 rotation. 4. your game plays horrible even on the most advanced computers. hundreds of threads on your forums and thousands of videos on youtube show how bad the game performs and that is the real reason ilum was took out. True, however this is not a "new" thing, been like this since release and not since 1.2 thats been my point, see my videos on youtube in my signature. 5. you nerfed everything about the character i play in pvp and it has become unfun. (bounty hunter) Once again, your problem is GEAR related, not game balance related, every class sucks if it is undergeared, it is not a bounty hounter specific problem, its a gear gap problem. see number 3 response, you have no idea what your talking about 6. legacy gear does not scale in levels with your character and you have to be a lvl 20ish character before you can even use it. useless This comment made no sense, as is a matter of preference... don't like something? don't use it. problem solved it makes sense to people that had legacy gear in wow. the point of legacy gear in wow was to have gear at lvl 1 that had experience bonus up to 40 percent increase and stats that scaled each level so you wouldnt have to worry about gear till 5 levels before max level 7. your legacy system is pretty mediocre at best. What did you expect? as long as their purpose was to not break pvp with it, what else do you think they could have done with it? with as much hype they were throwing out there i was expecting the second coming of darth vader 8. your developers are more worried about PVE content than PVP. (and thats sad, because from what i can understand, theres more PVP enthusiasts that play your mediocre wow clone than there are PVE. Considering that at war hero gear level, pvp has never been more balanced, i have to say it does not matter how many heads are on 1 type of content as long as they do it right. you play a maruader i bet. it is definately not balanced at war hero, thats what i have been talking about the whole time 9. you hyped 1.2 rated warzones and waited to the last minute to inform your playerbase that it would not be included with no statement of an expected release date. Yes, that sucked, while on one side it was a marketing decision, can you even imagine how much worse the game balance qq would have been from undergeared ppl? While i do not like having to wait for rated WZ and would die for ARENA ingame, they did the right decision in waiting. they hyped it to hell and waited to a couple of hours before the patch was implemented before making a statement it wasnt going to be in the game. that was pretty shady. 10 you could have went ahead and implemented 8v8 queing for warzones but did not. I would have liked that, but the majority of players would have not... because they already whine about premades. How do you think they will react to 8 ppl premade who also considerably outgear them. Infinity whines from non premades and free gear for the premades. 11. you listened to your whiners and opened up way to many servers, now all your servers except 1 or 2 are empty 90 percent of the time. They anticipated way more players to stay after the first month, while the server number was ok for launch time, they should have merged servers afterwards . 12. there is no way to server transfer. Server merge would be better. 13. did i mention that your game is a directx 9 game and it plays horrible on ALL high end systems???? Again, this is true, it sucks, i hate it. However it is not a new 1.2 problem, been like this since the start. these are only a few reasons you no longer get my money. everything was fun (or at least tolerable) before patch 1.2 came. If you are talking about pvp, you are wrong; pvp never been better. You are like the guy in full centurion complaining about ppl in full BM beating on him pre 1.2 right? well consider the gear gap (due to expertise) between recruit and war hero is even bigger than it was between centurion and BM. check the videos in my signature and look at the dates they were uploaded. i was never in centurian gear, i skipped it because when i started gearing up it was too easy to get champion gear and not even worry about centurian. again you dont know what you are talking about unless you revert the expertise changes, work on your game engine and focus more on PVP you lose my money. there are better games (wow) already out there for pve. and theres a better game (GW2) coming out for pvp (and its free). hope you guys can get your acts together and stop trying to fix things that arent broken, and ignoring the things that are. thats the real problem and why i unsubscribed. (comment i left on the unsubscribe page that will more than likely be ignored)

my reasons: 1. the developers removed ilum. 2. there never was any incentive for players to have world pvp and the developers designed every world to where all quests were done in seperate areas for both factions. i leveled from 1 to 50 and only had 5 pvp experiences and those 5 experiences were because i went out and hunted for pvp. 3. 1.2 expertise changes took the fun out of warzones. now its die before you can get 1 complete ability rotation off and stand behind a door waiting for the "respawn timer door" to open. 4. your game plays horrible even on the most advanced computers. hundreds of threads on your forums and thousands of videos on youtube show how bad the game performs and that is the real reason ilum was took out. 5. you nerfed everything about the character i play in pvp and it has become unfun. (bounty hunter) 6. legacy gear does not scale in levels with your character and you have to be a lvl 20ish character before you can even use it. useless 7. your legacy system is pretty mediocre at best. 8. your developers are more worried about PVE content than PVP. (and thats sad, because from what i can understand, theres more PVP enthusiasts that play your mediocre wow clone than there are PVE. 9. you hyped 1.2 rated warzones and waited to the last minute to inform your playerbase that it would not be included with no statement of an expected release date. 10 you could have went ahead and implemented 8v8 queing for warzones but did not. 11. you listened to your whiners and opened up way to many servers, now all your servers except 1 or 2 are empty 90 percent of the time. 12. there is no way to server transfer. 13. did i mention that your game is a directx 9 game and it plays horrible on ALL high end systems???? these are only a few reasons you no longer get my money. everything was fun (or at least tolerable) before patch 1.2 came. unless you revert the expertise changes, work on your game engine and focus more on PVP you lose my money. there are better games (wow) already out there for pve. and theres a better game (GW2) coming out for pvp (and its free). hope you guys can get your acts together and stop trying to fix things that arent broken, and ignoring the things that are. thats the real problem and why i unsubscribed. (comment i left on the unsubscribe page that will more than likely be ignored)

my champion gear gave me more hit points than my BM gear did. merc champion gear with the endurance skill points i had over 18k hp, now with my augmented war hero gear i have 17.4k hps.

when 2 people in the lowest tier pvp gear can kill 1 person in the best pvp gear before the person in the best tier gear has a chance to do a single rotation, theres something wrong. i grinded for my gear, suffering through an endless amount of warzones with teams that were horribad. loss after loss. looking forward to bags that had a random droprate of gear/marks of 1 in 30. had a full set of BM gear before 1.2. now my main has a full set of WM critted gear with BM mods and 2 augmented elegant weapons. 1261 expertise and 2 casuals with less than 600 expertise can kill him before he gets through one rotation. ive changed my mind, if they dont revert the change in expertise (at least damage) to pre 1.2 by the next patch day (tomorrow) then i quit, uninstall and i will wait for gw2. im not playing a game that screwed something up so bad that no one was complaining about in the first place. i will not contribute to the life of a community, even for FREE, to a game that completely destroys something that had nothing wrong with it. the healer nerf should have been enough. there was no need to increase damage with expertise.

this. ive already made my decision, the only way they are going to keep me playing this game is a revert to pvp the way it was before 1.2 ( longer TTK) and massive efforts in world pvp. AND MAKE MY ARSENAL MERC ACTUALLY USABLE IN PVP AGAIN! i know its not going to happen. they screwed everything that has to do with pvp up COMPLETELY. so my moneys going to the other game you guys are talking about. ill be canceling my swtor account on the last day of my free time.

i agree and i too will be unsubbing and heading to GW2. since the 1.2 changes and the death of ilum, there is no fun pvp in the game. you dont live long enough to have fun.

wrong, they will spew out whatever data they can while preventing the capper from capping by attacking the capper with anything they can and not worrying about actually killing anyone in an obvious 2 on 1 fight. you are going to die anyway may as well get the info out as soon as possible and not AFTER you die leaving a node completely defenseless.

thats no exaggeration.

your doing it wrong if you cant get 1 medal in five minutes. i can usually get 10 in that time. since 1.2, you go into a warzone and fart you get 3 medals.

i hope you didnt start playing SWTOR solely for the pvp.

in voidstar: 1. when attacking, if your team goes left and you see a couple of your teammates invis/camo going right, unless you yourself can camo/invis stay with your visible team mates unless otherwise told to. 2. fight with your camera facing the door if you are defending. 3. if your team mate is capping, stand under the enemy teams spawn point (middle) and be ready to knockback/stun. 4. in the second room with the bridges, if you die DO NOT run to the edge of chasm (center) people can use you to jump across. 5. meet your enemies on the bridge and knock them off. 6. anyone near the door always try and keep hitting them with something. even if its a regular attack. 7. if you are attacking always try to lure your enemies away from the door to help cappers. Huttball: 1. stay with the ball. 2. if youre not with the ball you should be helping control the middle. 3. dont waste your knockbacks unless you are knocking the ball carrier into the pit, or you catch the whole opposing team next to the edge of the pit. 4. dont stand on the edge at your goal line to be used as a stepping stone by the ball carrier. 5. always pass the ball if you start to get overwhelmed, or throw it away. novare coast: 1. MORE THAN ONE PERSON CAN CAP A POINT AT ONE TIME TO MAKE THE CAP GO FASTER (unlike voidstar and civil war) 2. always have 2 people defending the point not being attacked, to prevent stealth stun and ninja caps. 3. call out incomings and how many. civil war: 1. only one person can cap a node. 2. as soon as your team takes 2 nodes the team needs to move back and forth between the capped nodes constantly to repel the enemy. always good to leave at least 2 people guarding each node.

you should go back to wow, where keyboard turning actually matters.

there is something wrong with the PVP in a game when: on dec 12 i began playing on a HEAVY PVP server. quetimes were over an hour the first couple of weeks. i was lvl 50 on my main by jan 12. throughout my leveling experience, i never saw 1 person of the opposing faction until i hit tatooine. i was ganked a few times by a 50 after successfully killing a republic my level. from that time on i didnt see anybody from the opposing faction until voss. i had 5 TOTAL pvp experiences while leveling to 50 on a PVP server, during the busiest the servers have ever been. since they dont plan on changing the main structure of quests and their locations, they need to add LVL 50 daily areas to ALL planets that BOTH factions have to go to, to complete dailies, and to add incentives for everyone to take part in the dailies.

wows pvp arenas are tuned to 3v3, 2v2 doesnt matter. its only used for points. what everyone is talking about in this thread is the changes to expertise. before 1.2 we all had better survivability with expertise. now with over 1200 expertise my merc doesnt last 5 seconds 1vs1 and if i get focused, its an insta death. this is not fun in a warzone environment. where you do more standing waiting for the door to drop than you do actually pvping..

same. 1.2 has made me want to quit, i havent had fun in pvp since the changes. you dont live long enough to actually have fun the way it is now. so im with you. if nothings changed by the time next month rolls around, im out.