Just wondering who will Not be playing Empire vs. Republic 6.0

[Damask_Rose]

ignoring the fact that KotFE/ET was their attempt and failure at a third-faction focus, what would you realistically have instead of the Empire or Republic? because there's really not a lot of feasible options in the timeframe the game is representing

 

I don't think it was the third-faction focus that made FE/ET unpalatable. It could have worked if it were better done. Better attention to detail, less over the top, more in tune with previous content. Expecting us to swallow a big whopper of a retcon right off the bat didn't do the story any favors.

[JennyFlynn]

KOTFE/ET was my least favorite expansion, not so much due to the 'third faction' stuff (though that's not a direction I would have chosen), but mostly due to varying other issues. The biggest being this whole one-shoe-fits-all stuff. I felt genuine disassociation, especially on classes that were not a Knight or Warrior, based on various factors but I played through the story regardless. Several times over, and still have some characters mid-way into KOTFE/ET. All in all, I don't think a third faction was the biggest issue; there was simply a lot 'wrong' with the expansion. Had the stories been more varied to cater closer to class identities, and had we not been robbed of companions then I believe that alone would have silenced a big chunk of the discontent among players even with the third faction aspect.

 

That said, I am in favor of just two overhead factions; The Empire and The Republic, joined by whichever smaller factions choose to ally themselves with one or the other. There is no knowing how this will play out in 6.0 and how the shift from KOTFE/ET to 6.0 will be handled in terms of dividing our current Alliance forces and choosing a side but I will be playing. I have to, at least once, because I would rather uncover the story and gameplay for myself before passing any sort of judgment. I might be let down in which case I'll do the same as usual and just sub/unsub as I see fit, or I may be surprised and find myself truly, passionately enjoying the game once again. We'll see but I'm not going to slam any of it until I've had a chance to experience the expansion myself.

[McBaal]

I think the big mistake during KOTFE/ET storywise wasn't the Alliance, not even Zakuul. It was making the PC the outlander and leader of this Alliance. There was no need at all to do this. They could have simply used Darth Marr / Satele Shan as leaders of the Alliance (both already teamed up and are the in field faction leaders) and the PC as their advisor / sidekick / ally.

A team of Satele + Marr + PC during the Boss fights against Arcann,Vaylin and Valkorion would have been much less cringeworthy. If they wanted to head - team - up Valkorion and the PC why not clearly force Valkorion to do so or otherwise die permanently. It is implied that he did jump to the nearest host possible, but to me it still remains too speculative. That would explain why Valkorion even bothers with let's say a smuggler: He had no choice if he wanted to survive. And from then on he starts manipulating the PC to do his will while the PC is a field agent / ally (in case of fe the Sith Inquisitor) to Satele / Darth Marr. And at the end of the story, defeating Valkorion means sacrificing the Alliance because the PC could eather permanently destroy him at the cost of a lot of innocent lifes (Marrs way and dark side choice) or bind him in some artifact (Sateles way and light side choice). The Alliance breaks over this choice with eather Marr or Satele pulling off their ressources. The new characters (Senya, Arcann, Koth etc.) remain as additional companions to what remains of this Alliance, now under direct control of the PC and not as a dominant power. The endings would have been similar but still class friendly (only ingame mails and one class specific cinematic required)

 

1) Sith Inquisitor: With the old powerbase destroyed, the Alliance is the new powerbase to regain or defend the seat in the dark council.

2) Sith Warrior: The Alliance are the warriors extended crew to wage war at the Republic and maybe become more than just a killer in the name of the empire (dark council seat someone?)

3) Agent: Ressources, ressources, ressources and secure base of operations eather in service of the empire or as a double agent.

4) Bounty hunter: The Alliance turns into an independent base for all the...independent businessmen seeking to make a fortune during the continous war between the Empire and the Republic.

5) Jedi knight: Due to the more greyish way of the story line the force enclave on Odessen turns into a safe environment for non conventional / light side Sith and Jedi who couldn't resist their very own Kira Carssen as well...The Alliance now is all about protecting Odessen and its force enclave during this era of "Grey Jediism"

6) Jedi consular: The same ending as the knight.

7) Trooper: The Alliance turns into a branch of the Republics military, most likely some type of auxillary troop and garrison within the unknown region.

8) Smuggler: Basically the same as the bounty hunters ending. Smugglers, pirates and cantinas everywhere on Odessen and the Alliance turns into the smugglers new pirate / privateer fleet. Your very own Florrum if you want (just love Hondo!!!) Or Odessen becomes a neutral ground for those who are tired of the continous war.

 

Which leads me to how the story could still be salvaged and the Alliance alive and well, even when the story turns back into Rep vs Emp. There is no way in hell how my Sith Sorceress would become Acinas ***** or my Sith warrior returning to slaughter faceless reps for a new master. Just to pick the most extreme examples.

I believe while the overall story of the game returns to Rep vs Emp, this does not mean that the PC has to become a servant again. All it takes is some class specific world building aka dialogues. The Sith Inquisitor using the Alliance to regain power withing the empire (especially if Acina is dead) is just one way to honor the class story and the efford to build up the Alliance.

What needs to happen is giving the player the chance to customize the character of the Alliance depending on the class (Smuggler/ bounty hunter den, force enclave for grey force users, republic garrison / outpost, new power base to regain influence withing the empire) You might even open it up to all classes to give the players more space for RP. There is no reason why the smuggler wouldn't turn Odessen into a refugee for grey force users if the player wants to do so.

This way, with the Alliance becoming a customizable extended crew for the player, he/she could decide who to support during future expansions. If the player wants to RP as a hardcore empire loyalist he may choose to support the empire during every new content update. If the players Sith Inquisitor for example prefers the empire but doesn't want to become Acinas *****, the player may support the empire most of the time, unless supporting the Republic weakens the political enemies within the empire. All the mid and long term results of the players decisions could be displayed on Odessen. If the settings change during future content there is no need to remember decisions outside of Odessen and write some very unfitting dialogues. The Alliance / crewmembers remain during content updates, but all the other NPCs are new and it doesn't matter if the PC kills them or not. Most likely you won't see them again anyway, no need to write yourself into a corner.

IMO this would create more customization options, more immersion with the characters and more replayability at the cost of a few ingame cinematics, ingame mails from NPCs, dialogues and different layouts for a new 6.0 version of Odessen. Sounds like a special offer to me.

[MandFlurry]

Until I actually see what it is that is released.. it's pretty hard to say, one way or the other. I'll play it if I like it, and I will not if I simply do not like what I see.

 

I will however say that I do not follow some studio directed treadmill (not just this MMO.. but every MMO I have played) ... just because that is what they released. I've only ever Played KoTFE and KoTET through with two characters, one on each server. I thought the story arcs were well done... but I'm simply not going to grind one character after another through the same story.

 

I really don't know why MMO players feel they have to spin on the wheel that is put in the middle of the cage for them. There is plenty to do in this game that does not require following the pre-wired treadmill issued by the studio.

 

Yeah, Nothing is really forced, even if it feels like it. Hell, i just decided not to choose any side and stay with a Faction i like, which was the Alliance, not some stupid Empire vs. Republic storyline, just because crybabies are being overheard more than the Alliance side.

 

Sorry, for anyone that likes just that, but that's what happened. Crying got heard more, but i suspect the Alliance side is going to get heard now to. Star Wars is Not just about Empire vs. Republic, as that is just ignorance and having no real knowledge about the Star Wars Universe.

 

Like i said we can all level by doing Warzones and Fp's and Ops, among other things when it comes down to it.

Edited October 7, 2018 by MandFlurry

[Ardrossan]

Star Wars is Not just about Empire vs. Republic, as that is just ignorance and having no real knowledge about the Star Wars Universe.

 

No, but imo it's more interesting than kotfe/tet, and your opinion isn't worth more because you've read lots of wookieepedia entries bruh.

[IoNonSoEVero]

What's "more interesting" is highly subjective, as this thread shows. I personally found KOTFE/KOTET more interesting than an endless faction war, even with the flaws that have been discussed.

 

Someone posted that whatever the writers do, someone will complain about it, and I think that's true. It's a playerbase where people are interested in different things. I do think they've been making efforts to try to listen to the players recently, but the end result isn't always satisfactory either. Like with the companion returns, they were wanted (justifiably) but the way they were delivered didn't necessarily thrill anyone. To me, it wasn't about the short length (Nico's mission is two minutes long but really fun IMHO) but that some characters and the timeline felt off. People howled for certain companions to die and the devs went along with it, but didn't seem to think much about those who chose to save the companions. There are other examples. They're trying hard and I don't know where the disconnect is; perhaps just that they are trying to do a lot with a very small staff right now and IIRC all the original writers have moved on.

 

So as others have said, even though I personally would prefer to stay with the Alliance, this is going to be about how it's delivered more than the theme. I'd like to hope they've come up with more than HUR HUR SITH BAD!! JEDI GOOD! ALL COMPANIONS MUST DIE! for this, but time will tell, I guess.

[ThrakhathSpawn]

I don't think it was the third-faction focus that made FE/ET unpalatable. It could have worked if it were better done. Better attention to detail, less over the top, more in tune with previous content. Expecting us to swallow a big whopper of a retcon right off the bat didn't do the story any favors.

 

The single biggest flaw with FE/ET was the destruction of our characters.

 

I continually found myself facing 1,2,3's, that did not line up with my character.

 

Eventually I gave in to frustration and deleted all KOTFE characters to start them over and not do KOTFE.

 

I have not done KOTET but I have watched ending on youtube.

 

The second biggest flaw is the writer(s) showed extreme naivety and lack of depth when it comes to humanity. The characters were flat, wishy washy, and boring.

 

If the same style of writing is used for this new content, I will not be interested.

 

If it ties in to the SOR-Present content with default choices if I were to just jump in, I will not be interested.

 

Ultimately, I would like to see this new story line made into a separate game for those that like it. Then continue from Oricon with our characters.

 

There is not enough space to write about what went wrong.

 

No operations support, really fouled over a lot of people.

 

No PVP support.

 

No RP support(Zakuul did not lend itself to RP).

 

The original story line kept hitting high points, you felt you did something. The original story line focused on your character's view point. You did not warp across the galaxy to see bad guys make speeches. The new storyline kept reversing your gains, and dragged on with no resolution.

 

All I really want is some good solid writing, and some group content set with blasters, droids and lightsabers.

 

If this new expansion that returns to empire/republic still has the same kind of washed out writing that hallmarked SOR-Present then it won't interest me.

 

Just do the Tatooine Star Fortress mission and observe how the character that "hates bullies" is working to keep tatooine under the control of slavers, extortionists, and thieves. Bad writing there.

[ThrakhathSpawn]

ignoring the fact that KotFE/ET was their attempt and failure at a third-faction focus, what would you realistically have instead of the Empire or Republic? because there's really not a lot of feasible options in the timeframe the game is representing

 

I'm curious why you think this was their first attempt at a third faction?

 

Hutt cartel?

 

You spend that expansion fighting the megalomaniacal Hutt leader and the mercenary forces.

 

It dropped me into a new world with but the barest of contact of Republic/Sith forces.

 

The Sith could not hold a visible presence, you work for your goals nearly alone.

 

The republic could not spare much more than sending you, you work for your goals against a third faction nearly alone.

 

Hutt Cartel, not KOTFE, introduced an expansion involving a third faction power.

 

KOTFE/KOTET did not make players unhappy soley because it involved a non sith/jedi republic/empire faction. It received poor feedback because it was a frustrating drawn out story with lots of set backs, potential for branches that were dead ends, separation of and from family, it didn't make sense for your characters, etc...

 

I stopped role playing with 3.0.

 

3.0 was poor writing, but was short enough to not bring to give it negative feed back. KOTFE just dragged on endlessly, and was going to take years of going nowhere.

 

Ultimately, there shouldn't be a writer, there should be many writers, with varied experience in life.

 

When writing about the Tatooine underworld you need a writer that understands the horrors the gangs subject others to. Take the heroeic where you rescue the wives and daughters from a gang. The writer of the Star Fortress mission on Tatooine seemed completely ignorant of that. A team could have recognize that flaw and fixed it.

[annabethchase]

After literally years of generic 1 size fits all story, I cannot wait to go back to the actual premise of this franchise. So happy to be out of the Knights of the infinite sidequest storyline.

[annabethchase]

Star Wars is Not just about Empire vs. Republic, as that is just ignorance and having no real knowledge about the Star Wars Universe...QUOTE]

 

Well yes, it is. Empire v Rep or Sith v Jedi or some combination of the two is always what Star Wars is about.

 

As an MMO designer, Bioware has some latitude to try and create common enemies to face off against so that the game design is manageable, but that doesn't change the fundamental storyline of the franchise. It's the exception to the rule that proves the rule.

 

Now if you want to get into an expanded universe debate, the first major example of a non Empire conflict would be Shadows of the Empire. While it focuses in large part on the Republic heroes vs. the criminal underworld, you'll literally see right in the name that this all falls under "the shadow of the empire". It fully acknowledges that you can have other stories that take place in this universe, but the core conflict is the Republic vs. Empire (or similar conflicts at other points in the timeline like Jedi/Sith, Resistance/FO, etc.).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Shadows_of_the_Empire

[ImmortalLowlife]

I was cool with the concept of the alliance. The biggest flaw imo was the "one size fits all" story. KOTFE/KOTET only made sense for force users. Smugglers and BH's shouldn't have taken the same route to power as a Jedi or Sith. Other problems have been mentioned ad-nauseam here already.

 

But overall.... my force users enjoyed the expansions. And of course I'm gonna give 6.0 a shot. As for what I'd like to see.... I'm hoping there will be an option on some of my characters to keep my alliance. My smugglers and BH have no desire to join either faction. I have a Jedi who's always been a loyal member of the Jedi order and defender of the republic, and a couple of Sith who will only return to the Empire with the hope of being the new Sith emperor.

[ZirusZero]

I'm curious why you think this was their first attempt at a third faction?

 

Hutt cartel?

 

You spend that expansion fighting the megalomaniacal Hutt leader and the mercenary forces.

 

It dropped me into a new world with but the barest of contact of Republic/Sith forces.

 

The Sith could not hold a visible presence, you work for your goals nearly alone.

 

The republic could not spare much more than sending you, you work for your goals against a third faction nearly alone.

 

Hutt Cartel, not KOTFE, introduced an expansion involving a third faction power.

 

KOTFE/KOTET did not make players unhappy soley because it involved a non sith/jedi republic/empire faction. It received poor feedback because it was a frustrating drawn out story with lots of set backs, potential for branches that were dead ends, separation of and from family, it didn't make sense for your characters, etc...

 

I stopped role playing with 3.0.

 

3.0 was poor writing, but was short enough to not bring to give it negative feed back. KOTFE just dragged on endlessly, and was going to take years of going nowhere.

 

Ultimately, there shouldn't be a writer, there should be many writers, with varied experience in life.

 

When writing about the Tatooine underworld you need a writer that understands the horrors the gangs subject others to. Take the heroeic where you rescue the wives and daughters from a gang. The writer of the Star Fortress mission on Tatooine seemed completely ignorant of that. A team could have recognize that flaw and fixed it.

A Tatooine star fortress was already a bad call to begin with. It was remote with no genuine strategic value versus somewhere else like Corellia or Balmorra that could have used one instead concerning how important they are within galactic politics.

[IoNonSoEVero]

The irony is that in the films what we have is far closer to the Alliance or the SoR coalition than to Imps vs. Reps as huge factions. People don't like the idea of different characters working together; isn't that exactly what the Rebel ALLIANCE was?

 

Original trilogy: a scrappy resistance group made up of people from across the galaxy going up against an established huge galactic oppressor.

 

Prequels: Established galactic power going up against various factions (Geonosis, separatists, etc.) while a covert group with mystery membership (hmm, kind of like the Revanites?) slithers into power and upends everything. This is the only set of films where there's actually more than one or two Jedi or Sith operating in the story at any one time.

 

New films: Scrappy resistance group made up of people from across the galaxy going up against an established galactic oppressor.

[Kiesu]

The irony is that in the films what we have is far closer to the Alliance or the SoR coalition than to Imps vs. Reps as huge factions. People don't like the idea of different characters working together; isn't that exactly what the Rebel ALLIANCE was?

 

Original trilogy: a scrappy resistance group made up of people from across the galaxy going up against an established huge galactic oppressor.

 

Prequels: Established galactic power going up against various factions (Geonosis, separatists, etc.) while a covert group with mystery membership (hmm, kind of like the Revanites?) slithers into power and upends everything. This is the only set of films where there's actually more than one or two Jedi or Sith operating in the story at any one time.

 

New films: Scrappy resistance group made up of people from across the galaxy going up against an established galactic oppressor.

Depends what you define "different characters working together" as. Both sides have always had mercenary help, which would be "different" from their faction. Both sides have turn-cloaks which can be seen as "different" characters from their current faction. And other-aligned characters or centrists from various backgrounds. Nothing wrong with those, in war scenarios all of these are normal thing to see, while still fighting the same factions.

 

Rebel Alliance was a reactionary force formed against the Galactic Empire. It's founder members were all Republic characters. This is classic rep vs imp scenario.

 

Factions like Genosians were used to by Separatists to build them an army against the Republic. The Separatist Council was led by Dooku, and was slaughtered by Vader at the end of Clone Wars.

 

Resistance is basically Rebel Alliance reformed, this time just under name of New Republic. They hunted down scattered imperials after the fall of Galactic Empire. First Order is was one of several split factions of Imperial Remnants.

 

 

They're all very much Imp vs Rep stories and not at all like ET/EF alliance. Rep and Imp factions have just lost and gained allies, and fractured and reformed many times under different names. But a third non-aligned faction of randoms was never mainline spotlight focus.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Kiesu

[casirabit]

For everyone arguing that they are glad the alliance has been (or will be) destroyed remember the closer we get to the time line then the Empire is going to be destroyed as well and yes then we will have the First Order but the Supreme Leader Snoke has already been killed so even in the new movies it doesn't seem the empire is doing that well.

 

And that time line has not changed. Some of the other things may have changed, some of the books that were written may not be canon but they are still following the movie time line and at the end of Return of the Jedi the empire is basically destroyed since the Emperor is killed and Vader dies. From all I have read and researched the First Order doesn't fully form until 6 (six) years just before the Force Awakens (and no not from Wiki)

 

While I am glad some of you are happy about the return, try to be a little more understanding to those that don't. For me, doesn't really matter as long as my choices I made are respected by the devs.

Edited October 8, 2018 by casirabit

[Rion_Starkiller]

I'm more than happy to return to imp vs rep. I find it baffling that anyone on the dev team thought it was a good idea to wipe out all ongoing plots/NPC's/companions/storylines and putting the PC in carbonite for 20 years, then starting fresh with a terrible new storyline (very) loosely based on Vitiate. I was so excited after Ziost. I wondered what the emperor was up to. I thought he had become like Darth Nihilus, but instead Vitiate was merely one of those traveling husbands with a secret 2nd family. His secret family then conquers the galaxy while the PC is in carbonite. You don't even get to witness or help your faction, you merely wake up seeing how these events unfolded. Edited October 8, 2018 by Rion_Starkiller

[Ardrossan]

What's "more interesting" is highly subjective, as this thread shows. I personally found KOTFE/KOTET more interesting than an endless faction war, even with the flaws that have been discussed.

 

Did you miss the part where I said 'imo'? As in 'In My Opinion'.

[SilverWF]

Everyone would play Rep VS Emp.

We are enemies.

Period.

[Lhancelot]

What was boring and "unintelligent" was condensing 8 unique class stories into a single epic hero journey with the same binary choices and a few class origin recognition moments throughout.

 

This!!!! ^

 

I felt this the whole time I suffered through the last expansion. I also personally hated the constant genuflecting to my character, Commander of the galaxy leader of all king of everything BS. I just got annoyed with it.

 

I wish they made quality companion stories in the same vein as the original chapters. Even if they only could do one chapter of content fine, do it well and do it right.

 

Also the plethora of companions you have raining down on your head is unnecessary. I liked some of my old companions and found many of the new ones fairly empty and unfulfilling.

 

Admittedly I am not a story-buff on swtor, I am a PVPer first and foremost but when I have tried to partake in other facets like the later expansions story I honestly had a lot of trouble not just hitting the spacebar to move it along faster even though it was my first time experiencing it.

 

Everytime I was called Commander of the Free World and all of the Galaxy or whatever it is I get called I cringed and winced. To think you got to conveyor-belt all of your characters through this same funneled story is disheartening.

[McBaal]

For everyone arguing that they are glad the alliance has been (or will be) destroyed remember the closer we get to the time line then the Empire is going to be destroyed as well and yes then we will have the First Order but the Supreme Leader Snoke has already been killed so even in the new movies it doesn't seem the empire is doing that well.

 

And that time line has not changed. Some of the other things may have changed, some of the books that were written may not be canon but they are still following the movie time line and at the end of Return of the Jedi the empire is basically destroyed since the Emperor is killed and Vader dies. From all I have read and researched the First Order doesn't fully form until 6 (six) years just before the Force Awakens (and no not from Wiki)

 

While I am glad some of you are happy about the return, try to be a little more understanding to those that don't. For me, doesn't really matter as long as my choices I made are respected by the devs.

 

Erm...BS. The Sith empire ist not the Galactic empire. It was destroyed thousands of years before the original movies due to infighting and ultimately Darth Bane destroying it to form the new "Rule of 2" Sith. And as far as i know the old republic was destroyed by the Sith empire but managed to rebuild and reform into the Galactic Republic after the Sith were wiped out by the Jedi due to Darth Banes treason, followed by a thousand years of relative peace with just planetary defense forces and Jedi keeping the peace.

 

The Jedi even build their new Jedi temple on the ruins of an ancient Sith temple on Coruscant. But i doubt the game will cover the Sith empire ultimately winning the war against the old republic. This was fought for generations to my knowledge.

[JattaGin]

putting the PC in carbonite for 20 years

 

It was only 5 years, but I get your point.

 

Ontopic, I'm not interested in going back to the old rep vs. imp scenario, but it's what many (?) players loudly requested. I will play it nonetheless. Swtor will be my last MMO. I don't have enough time and motivation to start another one. Maybe when I retire, but that is still a few years ahead (unless I win the lottery).

[Ylliarus]

I think the writers were bullied into doing an imp vs. pub story line after the can't-think-out-of-the-box types that screamed how much they hated KOTFE and KOTET because it wasn't imp versus pub gave them the royal what-for. The writers are just doing what people screamed the loudest about.

 

That is very much untrue and I'd argue that's your own displeasure at the decision made talking instead of objective facts. Bioware has way more numbers and information than we do, they clearly must have seen that there was enough desire amongst the playerbase to make it profitable to return to Empire vs Republic.

 

I for one have seen some old friends return to SWTOR now that the renewed Empire vs Republic narrative has been announced and several more got back into touch and want to first see how they'll handle 5.10 before returning for 6.0. Those people left because SWTOR went away from the Empire vs Republic narrative, a decision that pushed away a lot of people that I knew. So I am very happy to slowly see them trickle back into the game

Edited October 8, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Rion_Starkiller]

It was only 5 years, but I get your point.

 

Oh, sorry. It's been 2 years and I only went through it once.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Did you miss the part where I said 'imo'? As in 'In My Opinion'.

 

Did you miss the part where I didn't quote you so I wasn't just addressing your comment?

[dipstik]

zakuul is basically a 3rd faction... and the alliance is like the fourth (combination of 1 and 2, but w/e) and now we are getting away from the 3rd faction and getting back into 1 and 2 (you know, the wars in star wars). there are a bunch of cool ways to make the transition. like, as the alliance leader you are no longer able to keep imps and pubs getting along, or there being another faction that one side sides with etc.

 

not being open to a story is surest way to hate it before you hear it.