Just wondering who will Not be playing Empire vs. Republic 6.0

[MandFlurry]

Depends on the story, and the options I get for 6.0 (faction change option).

 

I've already stayed away from the 4.0 and beyond expansions (and deleted any characters that were part of it), but may take one through when 5.10 drops, so 6.0 will be a 'maybe' for me.

 

I'm planning to go on PTS, to make my final decisions on anything, because really they will have to make something for people of the Alliance or lose some Subs, and have some people just not take part in anymore of this terrible Empire vs. Republic storyline.

[Ylliarus]

I'm planning to go on PTS, to make my final decisions on anything, because really they will have to make something for people of the Alliance or lose some Subs, and have some people just not take part in anymore of this terrible Empire vs. Republic storyline.

 

Based on the results of this poll from the SWTOR Reddit I'd say that's an exaggeration:

 

https://strawpoll.com/8p8bgbfg

 

A vast majority of the players that were polled are happy with the return to the Empire vs Republic narrative. Then there was a portion of players who felt indifferent about it and then a small group of players who were unhappy. I doubt that all of those unhappy people would simultaneously unsub. Sure, a few might, but I also know a lot of people will be returning who previously left the game because the story went away from Empire vs Republic. So to me it would seem Bioware will gain subs instead of lose them, in the end.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Ylliarus

[fishpeople]

I don't think the story will make people unsub. The Tier 5 grind will take care of that.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Based on the results of this poll from the SWTOR Reddit I'd say that's an exaggeration:

 

https://strawpoll.com/8p8bgbfg

 

A vast majority of the players that were polled are happy with the return to the Empire vs Republic narrative. Then there was a portion of players who felt indifferent about it and then a small group of players who were unhappy. I doubt that all of those unhappy people would simultaneously unsub. Sure, a few might, but I also know a lot of people will be returning who previously left the game because the story went away from Empire vs Republic. So to me it would seem Bioware will gain subs instead of lose them, in the end.

 

I'll point out the obvious, which is that strawpoll is not a source with integrity (Ie, someone could vote several times) AND it is a sample size of one particular group of fans. It does not speak for every fan in the game.

 

I do hope you're right that the game will be able to survive the loss of subs over this, as well as the PvPers angry about the new gear tier. I'm putting any funds i would have spent on a subscription toward a different game.

[Ylliarus]

I'll point out the obvious, which is that strawpoll is not a source with integrity (Ie, someone could vote several times) AND it is a sample size of one particular group of fans. It does not speak for every fan in the game.

 

The multiple vote per IP was disabled, so each IP could vote only once also, the poll was put on the SWTOR Reddit which contains the largest and most diverse group of SWTOR players, so you had PvP'ers, PvE'ers and RP'ers all in one spot able to vote there. Currently the SWTOR Reddit has roughly 80.000 members, so I think that's a solid and diverse chunk of the SWTOR playerbase. Plus, the Poll listed #3 place in the list of threads, so it was visible for everyone. It doesn't speak for every single player, but one could take it as a representation for the wider playerbase.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Falensawino]

But seemingly, as can be seen in this poll https://strawpoll.com/8p8bgbfg from the SWTOR Reddit, a vast majority of people are happy with the return to the Empire vs Republic narrative.

I voted for "I feel indifferent towards that." Mainly because my stance is always wait and see.

 

What I am happy about is the family issues Zakuul story finally coming to a close. I didn't like the characters to begin with, except for Valkorion. The only character I liked's story didn't pan out the way I was hoping it would back when I was excited for Knights of the Fallen Empire. So now I'm happy to move away from that noise.

[fishpeople]

675 out of 80,000? That isn't even 1% of the reddit community

[Ardrossan]

I'll point out the obvious, which is that strawpoll is not a source with integrity (Ie, someone could vote several times)

 

It says right on there they check for IP addresses, and you can test it yourself.

 

Whenever someone says 'let me point out the obvious' I always lol because it's a phrase that invites stupidity. If it was obvious to you, it was obvious to the people who made the thing and therefore tried to counteract the problem, not just leave it there for beardos to say 'Ackshully...'

 

It was a poll on r/swtor, which is representative of a sample size of people who play this game. It's not as if the surveys done here are representative of the game's population, but we seem to pretend they are because we're here.

[Ylliarus]

675 out of 80,000? That isn't even 1% of the reddit community

 

Basic knowledge, that's how polls work... when news stations poll people on the street, they don't poll an entire city of 250.000 inhabitans but only one sample group of, for example 1000 people. Surely that's not difficult to understand?

Edited October 18, 2018 by Ylliarus

[IoNonSoEVero]

The multiple vote per IP was disabled, so each IP could vote only once also, the poll was put on the SWTOR Reddit which contains the largest and most diverse group of SWTOR players, so you had PvP'ers, PvE'ers and RP'ers all in one spot able to vote there. Currently the SWTOR Reddit has roughly 80.000 members, so I think that's a solid and diverse chunk of the SWTOR playerbase. Plus, the Poll listed #3 place in the list of threads, so it was visible for everyone. It doesn't speak for every single player, but one could take it as a representation for the wider playerbase.

 

Most people have more than one device (each of which has a unique IP) and a lot of them know how to mask or change IPs via VPNs. Just saying. Unless a poll has something stronger to cross-check participation it's not watertight.

 

And that's your opinion and your opinion alone that it's the "largest and most diverse group" of SWTOR players. You don't know the demographic of every person registered there or what they like to play. Considering the registered game playerbase is in the millions, 80K is a drop in the bucket...and most of them didn't even answer your poll at all.

[Ylliarus]

Most people have more than one device (each of which has a unique IP) and a lot of them know how to mask or change IPs via VPNs. Just saying. Unless a poll has something stronger to cross-check participation it's not watertight.

 

And that's your opinion and your opinion alone that it's the "largest and most diverse group" of SWTOR players. You don't know the demographic of every person registered there or what they like to play. Considering the registered game playerbase is in the millions, 80K is a drop in the bucket...and most of them didn't even answer your poll at all.

 

Ehm... my friend... SWTOR hasn't had a million players for years now... estimates currently put it at 150.000 at most, so the 80.000 isn't that far off...

 

And I doubt someone would go through such elaborate lengths for a simple poll on the internet... so we better apply Ockham's razor here

Edited October 18, 2018 by Ylliarus

[Falensawino]

675 out of 80,000? That isn't even 1% of the reddit community

675 active lurkers of r/swtor out of unknown

 

80,000 subreddit subscribers number isn't a usable figure in this scenario. That subreddit has existed since 2011 or earlier. There aren't 80,000 players actively browsing reddit.com/r/swtor to see the poll. Many of those subscribers have obviously lost interest in the game a long time ago.

 

(reddit.com/r/swtor was created on April 28th, 2009. The oldest moderator has been leading the sub for only 4 years.)

( /u/bstr413 became a moderator on June 17, 2014 )

Edited October 18, 2018 by Falensawino

[Ylliarus]

675 active lurkers of r/swtor out of unknown

 

80,000 subreddit subscribers number isn't a usable figure in this scenario. That subreddit has existed since 2011 or earlier. There aren't 80,000 players actively browsing reddit.com/r/swtor to see the poll. Many of those subscribers have obviously lost interest in the game a long time ago.

 

Right now there is roughly 1.100 people online on that SWTOR Reddit. So, if we got 675 votes and daily there are around 1.100 people online, I'd say that's fairly representative

[IoNonSoEVero]

Basic knowledge, that's how polls work... when news stations poll people on the street, they don't poll an entire city of 250.000 inhabitans but only one sample group of, for example 1000 people. Surely that's not difficult to understand?

 

Except that such a small sample size doesn't mean much if the playerbase is so large. Also, instead of a closed survey where you sampled people on the street, you left the poll open to everyone to read and respond to. Assuming that even 1/4 of the Reddit is active at any one time, that mean that out of 20K people, only a third of them bothered to respond.

[Ylliarus]

Except that such a small sample size doesn't mean much if the playerbase is so large. Also, instead of a closed survey where you sampled people on the street, you left the poll open to everyone to read and respond to. Assuming that even 1/4 of the Reddit is active at any one time, that mean that out of 20K people, only a third of them bothered to respond.

 

Or you could perhaps consider that, while the poll doesn't speak for all the playerbase, it does give a good estimate of how generally people are feeling about the return to Empire vs Republic, ESPECIALLY considering that Bioware found that route to be most profitable.

[TUXs]

Basic knowledge, that's how polls work... when news stations poll people on the street, they don't poll an entire city of 250.000 inhabitans but only one sample group of, for example 1000 people. Surely that's not difficult to understand?

While true, I do have to point out that this poll isn't exactly like that...reddit users are already a different group of players that have a far more vested interest in the game than the average player imo.

 

I don't know how this impacts the poll, or if it even does, but I do think there's a different level of interest among reddit users. It's kinda like asking people shopping at the mall what they think of the mall..they're already there, they don't represent a true random sampling.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Ehm... my friend... SWTOR hasn't had a million players for years now... estimates currently put it at 150.000 at most, so the 80.000 isn't that far off...

 

And I doubt someone would go through such elaborate lengths for a simple poll on the internet... so we better apply Ockham's razor here

 

Registered players? I'm sure it does have over a million. Just as that Reddit probably has a lot of registered users who are not active. You yourself said that at the moment only 1000 of them are active, which is a very small percentage of registered users overall.

 

Occam's Razor doesn't imply to data integrity. But if you think it's a 'simple poll on the internet' that doesn't mean much, I'd agree with you.

Edited October 18, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Ylliarus]

While true, I do have to point out that this poll isn't exactly like that...reddit users are already a different group of players that have a far more vested interest in the game than the average player imo.

 

I don't know how this impacts the poll, or if it even does, but I do think there's a different level of interest among reddit users. It's kinda like asking people shopping at the mall what they think of the mall..they're already there, they don't represent a true random sampling.

 

Well, I posted the poll on the SWTOR forums multiple times as well. So votes from here also must have come in. I don't know if it changes anything, but it should create a more random sample group in my opinion.

[Ylliarus]

Ocam's Razor doesn't imply to data integrity. But if you think it's a 'simple poll on the internet' that doesn't mean much, I'd agree with you.

 

No, but devising conspiracy theories that people used various IP's to vote on that poll is a bit of a stretch if you ask me. Simple doesn't equal meaningless, you know. It can also mean "straightforward" or "clear-cut".

[asiasusanna]

Basic knowledge, that's how polls work... when news stations poll people on the street, they don't poll an entire city of 250.000 inhabitans but only one sample group of, for example 1000 people. Surely that's not difficult to understand?

 

That's the point though- for example I can say that I have 600 members in my guild, out of whom only 250 are active. Out of those, only about 60 like what the new expansion is about to bring. Can I say that 75% of all gamers are unhappy with the direction of the new story? I have a LOT of people ranting about the fact that they don't want their Siths/Mercs/Agents to be tied down to either faction. So who's numbers are more valid?

 

P.S.: A lot of the 250 people are actually alts, but you couldn't know that if you didn't have that information from me, so my "observations" are as valid as the poll is. The only real indication of the success of the expansion will be how many subs remain 3-4 months after the hype is gone. As for my opinion on the actual story... I'm on the fence- some of my toons will be glad to be finally home, and for the rest I'm just gonna have to headcanon it.

Edited October 18, 2018 by asiasusanna

[IoNonSoEVero]

Or you could perhaps consider that, while the poll doesn't speak for all the playerbase, it does give a good estimate of how generally people are feeling about the return to Empire vs Republic, ESPECIALLY considering that Bioware found that route to be most profitable.

 

But it doesn't. It shows how 675 people feel about it on a site with 80,000 registrants, in one particular place.

 

Bioware also decided to make a MM Op simply because one dev who happens to play progression guilds wanted it. I don't necessarily think they're always taking the most profitable route.

[Ylliarus]

That's the point though- for example I can say that I have 600 members in my guild, out of whom only 250 are active. Out of those, only about 60 like what the new expansion is about to bring. Can I say that 75% of all gamers are unhappy with the direction of the new story? I have a LOT of people ranting about the fact that they don't want their Siths/Mercs/Agents to be tied down to either faction. So who's numbers are more valid?

 

P.S.: A lot of the 250 people are actually alts, but you couldn't know that if you didn't have that information from me, so my "observations" are as valid as the poll is. The only real indication of the success of the expansion will be how many subs remain 3-4 months after the hype is gone. As for my opinion on the actual story... I'm on the fence- some of my toons will be glad to be finally home, and for the rest are just gonna have to headcanon it.

 

The wait and see line of thought seems to be most applicable then! If only people could leave the "and preach doom and gloom in the meanwhile" out of the "wait and see" that would be truly wonderful.

[TUXs]

Well, I posted the poll on the SWTOR forums multiple times as well. So votes from here also must have come in. I don't know if it changes anything, but it should create a more random sample group in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's the best way to do it given what we have...I was just pointing out the flaw I see in it vs. an in-game poll...not that that's really possible either, not practically at least.

[IoNonSoEVero]

No, but devising conspiracy theories that people used various IP's to vote on that poll is a bit of a stretch if you ask me. Simple doesn't equal meaningless, you know. It can also mean "straightforward" or "clear-cut".

 

It's not a conspiracy theory. Anyone who actually works with data will tell you that it's a basic assumption online, especially for more heated issues. It's why sites that let you vote for things that are significant (ie, award winners) don't rely on IPs but rely on variables than cannot be tampered with, such as tying votes to phone numbers or user names.

[Ylliarus]

But it doesn't. It shows how 675 people feel about it on a site with 80,000 registrants, in one particular place.

 

Bioware also decided to make a MM Op simply because one dev who happens to play progression guilds wanted it. I don't necessarily think they're always taking the most profitable route.

 

If you have a city of 250.000 inhabitants and you only poll 2.500 people, then you have 247.500 people who have not spoken. And yet, we hear daily about such polls, we daily trust such polls to be an estimate representative of how people generally think and feel about a specific subject. Why then can't it be the same here? Because it doesn't suit your line of thought?

Edited October 18, 2018 by Ylliarus