Just wondering who will Not be playing Empire vs. Republic 6.0

[AureliaSulis]

... I am comforted by the thought that I know that for every single player that unsubs because of the return to Empire vs Republic, 2 old players will return

 

Do you possess a time machine and have actual statistics confirming the above claim because to me it reads as hyperbole.

 

In future you might want to add in qualifying language to such sweeping claims - such as "I personally know of x-number of players who will return to SWTOR with the return to Empire vs Republic storylines" because any other claim is simply unsubstantiated nonsense.

[Ylliarus]

Do you possess a time machine and have actual statistics confirming the above claim because to me it reads as hyperbole.

 

In future you might want to add in qualifying language to such sweeping claims - such as "I personally know of x-number of players who will return to SWTOR with the return to Empire vs Republic storylines" because any other claim is simply unsubstantiated nonsense.

 

No I do not, but I wish I did have a time machine. Would be great to have something like that!

 

Perhaps I should have indeed said "From what I have seen and heard from old friends and acquaintances, I know that...", because that conveys my meaning better. But I feel hyperbole is necessary to counter the doom and gloom some people seem to be expressing

[Fallensouls]

Also the Eternal Fleet could easily be replaced by Iokath. Why would you leave the planets you control still and go back to your former faction to be a lap dog for the Sith or Jedi who betrayed you? No one would.

 

The whole Nathema story is a mess and it has too many illogical conclusions just to force your character to go back wards instead of progressing , just so we can do jedi versus sith again,

 

I played this game from day one I dont need more jedi versus sith. Maybe some of you all who complained havent played long, and you desire that. Maybe you should make another character and play that again. For me its old and tired and I was looking forward to new enemies to battle who are more powerful and give us more challenge than the Sith or Jedi conflict does.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Fallensouls

[Fallensouls]

Ossus, a great planet with amazing lore that fans of the Knights of the Old Republic series love and cherish. I am amazingly happy that we're finally going to see that planet ingame. Also, Jedi Under Siege is only a story update, not an expansion. But luckily the expansion will continue with the Empire vs Republic war, which is amazing and wonderful. After all, that's the core theme of SWTOR

 

The Outlander should have never received the opportunity to claim any throne, they never should have been given the option to become Emperor or Empress. From a story writing perspective that is putting yourself into a corner you barely can get out of. So many people criticised this point and therefore I am very happy that Bioware corrected their mistake by destroying the Gravestone (an OP superweapon, blegh), the Eternal Fleet (even worse than the Gravestone) and the throne in the Nathema Conspiracy FP.

 

Yes, the Outlander (what a ridiculous title btw) should go back to the core theme of SWTOR, which is the story of the war between the Jedi and the Sith, the Galactic Republic and the Sith Empire. That is what players fell in love with and with the tons of criticism that KotFE and KotET got, that's what players want to see.

 

I am staying Subbed, because I am excited and happy with where the story is going and I know there are many, many players who feel likewise. I am sorry that you have felt the need to unsub, but at least I am comforted by the thought that I know that for every single player that unsubs because of the return to Empire vs Republic, 2 old players will return

 

Really your fine with the story being screwed up bad? Because Bioware chose to go that route not the players. If they wanted to keep Sith vs Jedi then they should never have made the Eternal throne stuff. Your former faction would not except you because you are a heretic practicing both sides of the force. This is a major cannon infringement. The Jedi would try to separate you from the force , the Sith would try to kill you.

 

So the new story does not make sense unless you ignore star wars lore, which it seems they are. Besides someone who was Emperor would never serve another, not in any culture in any history has that happened. The story will fail and they will lose subs because it doesn't make any sense at all for you to run back to your former faction. Just so a few players can go back wards in the story of their character does not make the rest of us happy at all.

[Ylliarus]

Really your fine with the story being screwed up bad? Because Bioware chose to go that route not the players. If they wanted to keep Sith vs Jedi then they should never have made the Eternal throne stuff. Your former faction would not except you because you are a heretic practicing both sides of the force. This is a major cannon infringement. The Jedi would try to separate you from the force , the Sith would try to kill you. So the new story does not make sense unless you ignore star wars lore, which it seems they are. Besides someone who was Emperor would never serve another, not in any culture in any history has that happened. The story will fail and they will lose subs because it doesn't make any sense at all for you to run back to your former faction. Just so a few players can go back wards in the story of their character does not make the rest of us happy at all.

 

You are extremely incorrect in your assessment. I invite you to take a look at this poll and Reddit thread:

 

As can be seen a majority of the comments expresses positive feelings about the return to an Empire vs Republic narrative. Simultaneously, the poll in the thread itself clearly shows that a vast majority of those polled are also happy with the turn the narrative is taking.

 

The people who are unhappy with the choice to return to the Empire vs Republic narrative are actually the minority in this case. The fact that Bioware, a company who is out to make profit, chose to return to this theme as well reinforces the fact that majority of the players want to return to a Republic vs Empire storyline, as Bioware has the actual numbers about feedback. A return to the Empire vs Republic narrative means that Bioware believes that's where they'll make the most profit because it will please the largest amount of players.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Ylliarus

[AureliaSulis]

In any of your conversations or questions posed to the Developers on Twitter have you ever asked about the possibility of a third-faction comprising the Alliance? A third-faction (allied to either the Empire or Republic) would help prevent loss of subscriptions from those who prefer to remain with the Alliance.

 

I will be reconsidering my subscription too if the Alliance is totally phased out.

[Fallensouls]

 

You are extremely incorrect in your assessment. I invite you to take a look at this poll and Reddit thread:

 

As can be seen a majority of the comments expresses positive feelings about the return to an Empire vs Republic narrative. Simultaneously, the poll in the thread itself clearly shows that a vast majority of those polled are also happy with the turn the narrative is taking.

 

The people who are unhappy with the choice to return to the Empire vs Republic narrative are actually the minority in this case. The fact that Bioware, a company who is out to make profit, chose to return to this theme as well reinforces the fact that majority of the players want to return to a Republic vs Empire storyline.

 

You in fact are incorrect the players of this game rarely get on the forums to whine. They just unsub and go back to WoW or whatever game they were playing before.I didn't see any poll on these forums. My whole guild is about to quit over this garbage. So no just like the Galactic command no one complained, but they sure all quit after it came out tho. This will be like that. You watch.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Fallensouls

[Ylliarus]

In any of your conversations or questions posed to the Developers on Twitter have you ever asked about the possibility of a third-faction comprising the Alliance? A third-faction (allied to either the Empire or Republic) would help prevent loss of subscriptions from those who prefer to remain with the Alliance.

 

I will be reconsidering my subscription too if the Alliance is totally phased out.

 

Not really, usually I asked questions other people sent to me and I never actually got anything in about the Alliance. It was mostly questions about the Sith Empire's lore and sometimes about the Jedi or Underworld. So no, I never mentioned anything about the Alliance being a third-faction thus far.

[Fallensouls]

Really good points here. I'm not ready to unsub yet because of my writing...but just wanted to say you have some great points.

 

Thank you I am glad some one other than me is not happy with the idea of going backwards with my characters story.

[AureliaSulis]

Not really, usually I asked questions other people sent to me and I never actually got anything in about the Alliance. It was mostly questions about the Sith Empire's lore and sometimes about the Jedi or Underworld. So no, I never mentioned anything about the Alliance being a third-faction thus far.

 

You might want to consider mentioning it.

It's too late for 5.10, but something might be salvaged for 6.0.

A third-faction would be the most obvious fix.

That is unless you don't have an issue with lost subscriptions?

[Ylliarus]

@Fallensouls Have to do it this way because the mobile phone page isn't letting me quote your previous post.

 

You haven't even taken a look at what I linked you, haven't you? I am trying to provide reasonable proof that people generally are content about the return to the Empire vs Republic narrative and yet you slap it aside just to be able to shout your stuff.

 

If the Alliance and Zakuul narratives really had been as loved as you claim they were, why then did so many players leave since KotFE and KotET? Why did those two expansions receive the tons of criticism it did if that's supposedly what players wanted?

 

The poll, which has been up on Reddit for several days and stood for a good while on #3 spot so it had a lot of visibility and therefore provided ample opportunity for players of all walks of life to cast their vote, clearly shows that a vast majority of the players polled are happy with the return to the Empire vs Republic narrative. I do feel sorry for those that are unhappy, I really do. But Bioware is a company and is forced to do what is most profitable. They realised that a return to this theme will please the largest amount of players and that is why we are returning to the story of the war between the Galactic Republic and Sith Empire.

 

You might want to consider mentioning it.

It's too late for 5.10, but something might be salvaged for 6.0.

A third-faction would be the most obvious fix.

That is unless you don't have an issue with lost subscriptions?

 

I'll see what I can do, albeit now I ask you the same: do you have a time machine to actually verify whether there will be a loss or gain of subs after 5.10 or 6.0?

Edited October 19, 2018 by Ylliarus

[MandFlurry]

Not really, usually I asked questions other people sent to me and I never actually got anything in about the Alliance. It was mostly questions about the Sith Empire's lore and sometimes about the Jedi or Underworld. So no, I never mentioned anything about the Alliance being a third-faction thus far.

 

So, your Not asking on behalf of the community as a Whole then, because fact is about half of us don't want this stupid unintelligent Empire vs. Republic thing. This war looks very weak.

 

Also, a lot of people like me that are Tech level with computers do not even use Discord. because it just doesn't work the way we want it to, and also don't use Twitter and Facebook because our lives are not dictated by so-called social media.

 

There really is no excuse to not have a 3rd faction now, even if BioWare says different, and they can make it very possible to, i know from beta.

Edited October 19, 2018 by MandFlurry

[AureliaSulis]

I'll see what I can do, albeit now I ask you the same: do you have a time machine to actually verify whether there will be a loss or gain of subs after 5.10 or 6.0?

 

I honestly do not know if there will be net loss or a net gain of subscribers. I am however a pragmatist and given that BioWare's subscriber base is not a particularly large one to begin with, an unnecessary loss of subscriptions is something that should be avoided by the company, especially when a third-faction would be the most obvious fix.

 

It would be so easy to have a win/win scenario, rather than a win/lose one.

[Ylliarus]

So, your Not asking on behalf of the community as a Whole then, because fact is about half of us don't want this stupid unintelligent Empire vs. Republic thing. This war looks very weak.

 

Also, a lot of people like me that are Tech level with computers do not even use Discord. because it just doesn't work the way we want it to, and also don't use Twitter and Facebook because our lives are not dictated by so-called social media.

 

I use those apps for convenience! Because it allows me to stay in touch with people I like I could write letters to them and send them by post but... I wonder whether that is efficient...

 

I mainly ask lore questions on behalf of the Darth Malgus and Star Forge RP communities. The questions usually are very specific as can be seen in the thread, for example "is there a class of Sith arbiters within the Sphere of Laws and Justice". So don't blame me no one wants to know anything about the Alliance from the communities I spoke of.

 

Also, drop the "I am so intelligent so I call other stuff unintelligent" act, it really isn't flattering.

[Fallensouls]

@Fallensouls Have to do it this way because the mobile phone page isn't letting me quote your previous post.

 

You haven't even taken a look at what I linked you, haven't you? I am trying to provide reasonable proof that people generally are content about the return to the Empire vs Republic narrative and yet you slap it aside just to be able to shout your stuff.

 

If the Alliance and Zakuul narratives really had been as loved as you claim they were, why then did so many players leave since KotFE and KotET? Why did those two expansions receive the tons of criticism it did if that's supposedly what players wanted?

 

The poll, which has been up on Reddit for several days and stood for a good while on #3 spot so it had a lot of visibility and therefore provided ample opportunity for players of all walks of life to cast their vote, clearly shows that a vast majority of the players polled are happy with the return to the Empire vs Republic narrative. I do feel sorry for those that are unhappy, I really do. But Bioware is a company and is forced to do what is most profitable. They realised that a return to this theme will please the largest amount of players and that is why we are returning to the story of the war between the Galactic Republic and Sith Empire.

 

 

 

I'll see what I can do, albeit now I ask you the same: do you have a time machine to actually verify whether there will be a loss or gain of subs after 5.10 or 6.0?

 

I really dont care what the poll states since most of us had no idea there was even a poll to begin with so how can it really be a true measurement when most of the game population had no idea about the poll? Secondly I am posting because this story line they are proposing going back to sith vs jedi violates the star wars cannon and should not be allowed.

[Ylliarus]

I really dont care what the poll states since most of us had no idea there was even a poll to begin with so how can it really be a true measurement when most of the game population had no idea about the poll? Secondly I am posting because this story line they are proposing going back to sith vs jedi violates the star wars cannon and should not be allowed.

 

No it does not violate canon. If it violated canon then Lucasfilm wouldn't have approved Bioware's storyline or given green light for it. Everything Bioware does in this game needs to be approved by the story team at Lucasfilm, since this story is being released, the green light has been given.

 

Also, the poll was posted on both SWTOR's official Reddit page and multiple times here on these forums. It had sufficient visibility and while it does not speak for the entirety of the playerbase, it gives a solid estimate representation.

[Fallensouls]

No it does not violate canon. If it violated canon then Lucasfilm wouldn't have approved Bioware's storyline or given green light for it. Everything Bioware does in this game needs to be approved by the story team at Lucasfilm, since this story is being released, the green light has been given.

 

Also, the poll was posted on both SWTOR's official Reddit page and multiple times here on these forums. It had sufficient visibility and while it does not speak for the entirety of the playerbase, it gives a solid estimate representation.

 

Lucasfilm is a joke now. They violate star wars cannon every film, so your argument is laughable.

[Ylliarus]

Lucasfilm is a joke now. They violate star wars cannon every film, so your argument is laughable.

 

That's again your opinion, and the sole fact you disagree with me doesn't disprove my argument. If you think that simply casting subjective opinions is a solid counter argument then frankly that is laughable.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Ylliarus

[MandFlurry]

LucasFilm, is only a name now, and it does Not represnt what George Lucas had for his vision, Kathleen Kennedy saw to that as soon as she got into power. But Lucasfilm is not representative anymore. Half of the Satr Wars community is in a divide now because of the films.

 

Reddit is also a small niche that only has 1 fraction of the community, and most people don't even belong to it because it is toxic. So, i mean 1 part of Role players is stuck in a "has been" of what was Star Wars in the 80's and early 90's, while some of us grew out of the old Republic vs. Empire junk that got old. Even George Lucas, and the other writers knew that had to stop doing that as it had been done to death, and had to give Star Wars more meaning and give the Republic and Empire a reason for life by creating other Factions and other worlds of play.

 

Not attacking you on this, just some peoples way of thinking is out of date.

[MandFlurry]

10 characetrs Edited October 19, 2018 by MandFlurry

[Fallensouls]

That's again your opinion, and the sole fact you disagree with me doesn't disprove my argument. If you think that simply casting subjective opinions is a solid counter argument then frankly that is laughable.

 

oh I have over 50% of the people who saw the last jedi agree with me that Lucas film is a joke. Your whole argument is you want the sith vs jedi, and I am saying since you use both sides of the force you could never go back, just like Reven couldn't return to either faction. That is star wars cannon that people who use opposing sides of the force are heretics and usually terminated.

 

That is not opinion that is part of the star wars cannon, if you played KOTOR 2 or read any of the books you would know this. Obviously you dont know anything about the Star Wars cannon .

 

It is your opinion that your former faction wont think any thing about you using force powers that are against their beliefs. That your former followers who betrayed the former faction they were in could even think about going back to them with being shot in a firing squad.

 

Take off your rosey colored glasses anyone cant do anything and violate the cannon it ruins the lore and good story telling.

 

Well let me tell you Bioware is not giving us good story telling and it will cost them if they continue to go this route. By not giving us what they have always been known for hurts them financially. It has been hurting them and will continue to do so until some one who has some common sense runs that company.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Fallensouls

[MandFlurry]

That's again your opinion, and the sole fact you disagree with me doesn't disprove my argument. If you think that simply casting subjective opinions is a solid counter argument then frankly that is laughable.

 

Don't forget, that what you say is of opinion, and only that as well. We do have people that feel the same way as us, and who also feel almost the same way but differently. It is Subjective.

[IoNonSoEVero]

The light and dark thing isn't quite true. The Empire cares mostly that you get your work done for them. An Inquisitor can be aligned LS or neutral and will still get a Dark Council seat (and recognition of that). Satele will comment several times if a Jedi Knight is dark-sided and won't grant them Master status, but won't drum them out of the order. In fact Satele even has a line after SoR along the lines that even though the JK is dark, they still are effective, and thus get the Battlemaster designation. The JC can also be noted as having some DS but won't be drummed out. The Jedi's usual way is to try to rehab anyone who has gone to the DS; they even try it with Vitiate, which is most amusing.

 

Plus there are characters like Mara Jade and Mace Windu who sort of straddle the line, and those are approved by Lucasfilm. Even with Anakin, they sense the DS so they won't promote him, but it's not as though they stop him from being a Jedi.

 

But anyway, aside from the LS/DS stuff, there are plenty of reasons your old faction wouldn't want to trust or accept you. And they should never have teased the possibility of working with the other faction if it could not happen. What was the point of Lana even asking us who we want to work with at the end of Nathema, if it's going to mean nothing? Just the illusion that our character was in charge of something? I wasn't expecting a full faction switch but I also wasn't expecting my characters to be forced to work within their original factions even if they didn't want to.

 

My Republic characters let the Republic people die in the GEMINI chapter. They allied with the Sith Empire in KOTET and again on Iokath. They rescued Theron, but told him to go away from the Alliance. Plus all of the things they did during the class stories and SoR that either supported the Empire or DS or foiled the Republic's plans.

 

There are zero reasons the Republic would ever trust my Jedi or smugglers again, in other words. They have made it clear over and over again that they want nothing to do with the Republic. It's hilarious at best and completely out of character at worst to have them forced to align with the Republic for 5.10.

 

And it goes back to the hand-waving. We're being told that our character, who supposedly is a galactic hero and still has some control over their destiny, can't even choose which faction to fully ally with. They're back to being a pawn for their original faction whether they like it or not.

[SilverWF]

They failed with this LS/DS choice from the release. There must not be any choices.

Jedis must be only light.

Siths - only dark

Agents, BHs, Troopers and Smugglers - only neutral. They are not force sensitive, nor force users, so they can't follow a path of something, that they didn't even have.

 

Faction change, neither factions alliances must not be possible.

 

That pathos stories need to be removed too. Usual player must be a little bit more than just private, otherwise this is not MMO, but single-player with the coop option.

[FlameYOL]

They failed with this LS/DS choice from the release. There must not be any choices.

 

Why would they remove choices from an MMORPG? It completely kills the RP aspect of it.