Discussion Topic: Game Update 5.4 and the Next Roadmap

[MeNaCe-NZ]

You're not reading your own responses, I directly replied to the point that you continually make that I'm trolling when I'm legitimately upset about people like you who ruin the game and EA's neglect of this game that still requires people to pay a monthly sub to enjoy it.

 

I accuse you of not making sense in your posts and your defense of that is to rant about EA ...

 

Maybe I'm wrong about the troll part, maybe you suffer some disorder than makes it hard for you to keep track of exactly what you are discussing/debating but be that as it may your posts are all over the show and as I said - add up to being nonsensical.

 

Note that nonsensical != nonsense as you tried to imply earlier. Maybe you've got a point in there somewhere but stuffed if I can figure out what it is.

[Deewe]

The key lies in offering various game play variants. Different types of people flock to MMOs for different reasons. Not having enough variation will cost you players. Focusing on story meant losing a lot of people over time because there was no new group content coming out. The reverse would also be true.

 

What really caused problems for the game, I think, is the combination of a 2 year drought and then the implementation of GC on top of that..

Indeed, a MMO needs to provide all type of content: Single & Multiplayer, PvE & PvP, RP & min/maxers. There's even a need to be able to play virtual barbie dolls.

 

However built in game play that allows you to build your own story is what games like SWG did, and unlike this game it will be remembered... Obviously that game failed however, but like all things it has come around full circle to the time where people want sandbox content...

Here's some food for thoughts I wrote long time ago. Brace for impact: wall of text.

 

TLDnR: jump to highlighted part.

 

Beware wall of text

 

As a long time SW fan, I can say I was kinda disappointed by SWG when I logged in at launch.

 

It was far from a Star Wars experience. I used to call the game CaveMan Galaxies. You know, Jantas owning a laser armed character with a stone knife and "dungeons" being caves.

 

The combat was slooow paced, such as you could macro it and take the time to make a snack. Although compared to "modern" MMO you could combat and chat at the same time, this without voice chat.

 

Waiting times were too long: 10 min shuttles for a hop, at least the same to get healed/buffed. It could took up to 30 min to meet someone at the opposite of the galaxy. We had to be nearby to be able to invite someone to a group.

 

Did I mention bugs? The first few days you would have you whole inventory deleted upon dying. We could get stuck in the main cities buildings calling for help so others players would kill us, freeing our character upon cloning.

 

The bosses where mostly mobs with insane resists and HP, such as you needed to be buffed to be able to survive.

 

It took a looong time to level, much more than the actual pace of modern MMO. Yes levels! OK not the regular stuff 1-XX but skill boxes that needed insane amounts of experience, and apprentice experience *cough* hologrind...

 

There were no directions at all. A newcomer was totally lost upon spawning in the game.

 

 

 

In the end one could wonder why some people have good memories of the game.

 

I'd say the first pillar of SW was not crafting, not even socialization and even less combat (player bounties) it was choice.

 

There was something to do for all kind of players from PvPers to Socializers through Crafters. You could create the character you wanted to play. Although the game wasn't really kind for PvErs due to the lack of content.

 

The time sinks, the usefulness of cantinas and med centers helped socialization. In that regard player cities traded a bit of the former for a feeling of ownership. I always felt players cities and housing should have been replaced by appartments in NPC cities. Both to keep socialization at peak and to avoid the mess around the planets.

 

Nobody can't deny Pre-CU crafting is still one of the best system ever made. Did you know players asked for a miner, a farmer and a herder profession? Although, surveying, managing harvesters, sorting and organizing the resources was sometimes more like a second RL job than anything else.

 

For the customer visiting empty vendors was a pain and a waste of time. Also in a galaxy far far away in the future no postman would care delivering bought items to your house. And the open market was plagued with a price cap on advertised goods. Soon the trade would move to the forums.

 

Still the lack of levels added to the size of the groups made it so anybody would be welcome to join. From the L33t maxed PvPer to the strange Cook / Fencer through the nobb that installed the game 10min ago. Only entertainers were left in the cantinas.

 

The planets were bigs, our legs smalls. Some of us, explorers, would take others players on tours to show them a crashed X-Wing, Ben's home, the Sarlaac pit, an oasis...

 

As a doc I sometimes got tells from rangers that I never heard of proposing to gather rare meat for me. And when I asked, they explained seeing my name written on top end meds. Guess they were smarter than others

 

When we were bored of crafting or killing we would simply furnish our beloved homes. And we wish we had a /roll item left|right command! Not to say option to paint walls, open windows, move walls stairs and doors...

 

PvP, well that was something! I'm not very fond of PvP nor ganking others but when you have over a hundred players shooting at each others you can't deny it's something. What was fun is afterwards we would talk to each others and sometimes we made very good friends in the opposite faction, such as some would switch sides over time.

 

JTL was a good addition to the game but for many of us it tasted sour. The UI, flight dynamics and content was far inferior than Tie-Fighter and X-Wing Alliance. And for some others it was too complex. Still it was the first game to have both space and ground combat. Though some still look for the link between the 2.

 

 

The NGE hit the game like a Tsunami. The officials didn't announce it to prevent riots. Riots indeed happened. There were many casualities, on both sides. And I still have in mind the view of Creature Handlers with their pets out for the last time. We were all very sad and they renamed their pets in ways it made us even more sad. I'd just say RIP Jeff.

 

Funny though NGE is a bit like I envisioned a SW game the first time I heard about SWG, way before the beta. A mix of Dark Forces I and Tie Fighter with many many people around. I'm pretty sure it would have been a good game: without player jedi, with a real FPS combat system and SW content. We all know how it turned out and the disaster it became TGC *cough*.

 

 

 

Now comes TOR and many many question are still left in the void, as we mostly know nothing about the core mechanics but a few hyped words like 4th pillar=story, heroic, companions, Jedi and Sith...

 

 

I don't know for you but Kotor, along with X-Wing series and Dark Forces, was one of the closest to SW lore, experience I had.

 

As such I'm pretty sure TOR will be a SW experience true to the lore and so the fans.

 

Now as a player even if I enjoy story based game play I'm a bit worried for now. MMO are fast paced games and there is no such time to read or listen to dialogues in multiplayers games. Unless you are playing alone. No wonder a huge majority of players never read quest logs but the: what, were, how many lines, even if in some games the quest are nicely written.

 

We have quite no infos on the companions so far. In a single player game they represent the friends you would group with but in a MMO? They'll be used to open quests but I already know Kotor players that got rid of companions because they don't like pets. How about MMOs?

 

The big question is space combat. There are so many possibilities that it's better to wait and see. But one thing is certain most if not all players are expecting Bioware on this. Some because they want it some because they don't want to be forced to do space content to advance on their journey.

 

It has been stated there won't be moisture farmers and crafting will be heroic. I guess BioWare found something new and exiting because you can't really say crafting will be heroic to Pre-CU SWG players without having non combat professions and not being flamed to death. So far I foresee an enhanced version of Kotor II crafting system. But that leaves all my former SWG crafter friends out of the loop.

 

Along with the latter I'm also worried for all nice entertainers I met in SWG, the image designers, the dancers and musicians that gave life to the cantinas. It seems they were eaten by a famished Rancor.

 

Character customization is a must to have in MMO but many took the way of tiers to manage equipment and it seems TOR is looking that way. That means stats matters and your character look will be based not on the gear that looks cool for you but the gear you can put your hands on (level/grind/loot) and the stats.

I do see an issue here and I'm worried in that way TOR will be another WoW/WAR clone.

 

Finally comes the socialization. Faction aren't a so bad way to enhance war but will we be locked in our own faction. Meaning we really play with half of the players on a server? The others being mobs with a better AI.

 

 

There are so many unanswered questions about TOR yet that it's difficult to answer but it seems non combat oriented players will be left at the door of the party.

 

Honestly I never would have imagined TOR to fail on mostly every single aspect:

Not that great V.O story

Boring crafting

Dull space sim

Really bad gear artistic direction

Total miss in gear customization

Really poor character body customization

No pet classes for multiplayer game play and mandatory pet classes for solo play

Total lack of any sandbox element

Dead world

No world PvP

Stupid gank the boss mechanisms

Loading screens...

 

Only the combat is fair.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Deewe

[dontbeswg]

Nice find there Deewe, and I agree the core problem with the mmo market is they haven't evolved instance content, sandbox content, and found a way to encourage community building through the contents.

 

People really like the feeling of freedom in these games, but they also want structure. I think minimizing the amount of instance content and making the sandbox content contain more structured elements would really solve that.

 

The tragic thing is people have been asking for immersive worlds since launch, and I think bioware was the wrong group to expect freedom/sandbox from.

[Deewe]

Nice find there Deewe, and I agree the core problem with the mmo market is they haven't evolved instance content, sandbox content, and found a way to encourage community building through the contents.

 

People really like the feeling of freedom in these games, but they also want structure. I think minimizing the amount of instance content and making the sandbox content contain more structured elements would really solve that.

 

The tragic thing is people have been asking for immersive worlds since launch, and I think bioware was the wrong group to expect freedom/sandbox from.

The true next iteration for MMO is themed sandbox.

 

As you say, players need specific tailor made content by skilled developer and... sandbox content to let them go further.

 

With theme park only people loose their interest as studios can't provide content fast enough.

With sandbox only player get lost and don't know where to start or can't relate to the game.

[Icykill_]

The true next iteration for MMO is themed sandbox.

 

As you say, players need specific tailor made content by skilled developer and... sandbox content to let them go further.

 

With theme park only people loose their interest as studios can't provide content fast enough.

With sandbox only player get lost and don't know where to start or can't relate to the game.

 

A mix of both is what's needed

[dontbeswg]

The true next iteration for MMO is themed sandbox.

 

As you say, players need specific tailor made content by skilled developer and... sandbox content to let them go further.

 

With theme park only people loose their interest as studios can't provide content fast enough.

With sandbox only player get lost and don't know where to start or can't relate to the game.

 

What's good now is the demand for open world with the popularity of PUBG and GTA Online is back, so hopefully a dev will employ a bit of vision.

[Eanelinea]

I didn't see this addressed anywhere recently, but if it has, forgive me, but when are the remaining original companions coming back? I still have characters waiting for their spouses to come back. I know it takes time and such, but as much as the MMO bits are awesome, I want my story content to continue so I can at least get my companions back. Theron, Lana, Koth, Senya, etc are great, but I still have approximately 20 or so original companions I'm still waiting on. Any news on if/when??

[Asmodesu]

I didn't see this addressed anywhere recently, but if it has, forgive me, but when are the remaining original companions coming back? I still have characters waiting for their spouses to come back. I know it takes time and such, but as much as the MMO bits are awesome, I want my story content to continue so I can at least get my companions back. Theron, Lana, Koth, Senya, etc are great, but I still have approximately 20 or so original companions I'm still waiting on. Any news on if/when??

 

No information. All we know is the KotEt stuff got cut back drastically to take a new shift in focus, away from depth in story so it's going to take longer. I am just hoping they learn from the mistakes with Malavai's and Elara's returns being lackluster in comparison to the rest so far returned.

 

There should be a roadmap coming out within a few weeks, story continues this month but no companions returning then.. that they've mentioned anyway.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Asmodesu

[Der_Falke]

Hi,

 

I have also some suggestions for the new content to be released with 5.4 and later:

 

1. Definable gear requirements for Flashpoints

What gear is required for a certain flashpoint is determined by different factors. The gear is one important factor but there are also others like the difficulty of boss mechanics and how skilled the players are. So it can be that a skilled group can easily clear some content while being undergeared while others can struggle even if they are overgeared. So it would be good if it would be selectable on the group finder which gear level to expect for a certain flashpoint. So for example if you have a premade group it might be possible to carry one not so good geared player. Therefore it would be good if is possible to override the gear limit and lower it from its starting default.

 

2. Reasonable loot drops for FPs

The drops should always be in line with the difficulty of the content. So on FPs with a high difficulty valuable gear should drop and not for example some old 216 pieces.

 

3. Subscriber rewards should be reintroduced

Last year subscribers got monthly some reward. Although the value of some of the rewards were debatable it showed that Bioware take care of the subscribers. Things like the story chapters or the companion were well received. Though this year there was nothing. Not even some small things like for example a vehicle, a weapon or a color crystal. This should be changed again as the subscribers are the most loyal customers.

 

4. Remove the artificial restrictions in decorating the strongholds

There are people who like to decorate their strongholds that they are nice and shiny. For these people there are some nasty limits. The first is that the number of hooks is tightly coupled with the conquest. This is a problem because it forces you to fill up the stronghold with a lot of crap to get to the 100% and limits the number of available hooks because otherwise you would have to squeeze even more decoration into it. So I suggest to modify this dependency. Lower the limit required for the 100% conquest bonus so it is possible to reasonable decorate the strongholds.

 

5. Provide decoration that fits to strongholds

If a new stronghold is introduced there should be decoration available that fits its look and feel. There should be a vendor to buy some basics like chairs and desks. In addition there should also be a reputation vendor for cartel certificates to be able to earn a decoration 100 times instead of only one time in the cartel market. In general the limit for some decoration should be increased. There are some things like the “Felusia Stato” basic decorations vendor that you can only have 4 pieces of it. This was ok when there were only 4 strongholds but now this is just stupid. I suggest to increase the limits of decorations to a reasonable number.

 

6. Make PvP not the only source of Unassembled components

Unassembled components is a nice idea. Though the problem is that PvP is the only source for it. So it forces a lot of players into PvP that actually do not want to grind it just to get these components. I would suggest to get unassembled components also for "group" content in a reasonable number. E.g. drop something like 1-2 pieces for HM Flashpoints or for killing the endboss of an SM OP drop 4 pieces.

 

7. Provide some new events

Events are a nice but for a long time the same events are repeated over and over again. It is time to introduce something new. One thing would that you reactivate the Chevin Grand Acquisitions Race event, because it is the only one that is not repeated regularly. If this is too difficult there could also be some new events, event if they are based a bit on rehashed content that already exists. For example you could make some kind of treasure hunting on Rishi, or rehash some parts of the HK-51 story. There is for example this part where you have to jump from one flying car to the other. Make there for example some race. So one finishes the path from the start to the beginning the bigger the reward.

[omaan]

Keith, i recommend you to buff UC rewards for unranked warzones missions and/or add more missions for running unranked warzones with UC rewards so that players may do warzones during the whole week, not only run 20 games during one day and forget about warzones for the whole week. or you can reduce the cost of BiS gear. Just read comments in this thread - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=929225 many players are dissatisfied with buff to ranked and ignore of unranked missions. Many are planning to unsub if nothing changes in close times. People are mad and going to leave.

[SentinelThain]

Get rid of the whole GC crap.

Stop with the whole Zakuul nonsense.

Bring back Comms

Then I'll resub.

Simples.

[TUXs]

Keith, i recommend you to buff UC rewards for unranked warzones missions and/or add more missions for running unranked warzones with UC rewards so that players may do warzones during the whole week, not only run 20 games during one day and forget about warzones for the whole week. or you can reduce the cost of BiS gear. Just read comments in this thread - http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=929225 many players are dissatisfied with buff to ranked and ignore of unranked missions. Many are planning to unsub if nothing changes in close times. People are mad and going to leave.

HAHAHAHAHA!!! They actually NERFED UC rewards from regs. They NERFED it!!!!!! Our feedback wasn't heard, our opinions didn't matter - they NERFED UCs...they clearly have a different path than their players do.

[Transcendent]

HAHAHAHAHA!!! They actually NERFED UC rewards from regs. They NERFED it!!!!!! Our feedback wasn't heard, our opinions didn't matter - they NERFED UCs...they clearly have a different path than their players do.

 

Odd, I thought it went from ~124 UC to being ~124 UC, the daily went down by 2 and the weekly increased by 14, which makes the end result the same over the course of the week. I mean when they lauded their design goal and then completely failed to meet it for regs?

 

Clearly something is going on, but either way without lowering the cost of gear requiring UC, both regs and ranked will remain the cluster**** that they currently are.

 

[TUXs]

Odd, I thought it went from ~124 UC to being ~124 UC, the daily went down by 2 and the weekly increased by 14, which makes the end result the same over the course of the week. I mean when they lauded their design goal and then completely failed to meet it for regs?

 

Clearly something is going on, but either way without lowering the cost of gear requiring UC, both regs and ranked will remain the cluster**** that they currently are.

 

If you play every day of the week it's the same...I don't.

[Transcendent]

If you play every day of the week it's the same...I don't.

 

Then it should be an increase if you complete the weekly.... ?

[Suzsi]

Some are forgetting that people left in droves right after launch because of lack of elder game content -- such as Operations, for example.

 

Story players left because it was too slow and too much of a grind to play all of the stories. Thats why I left back then and have come back since it was fixed, stayed for Kotfe and Kotet, subbed for them btw and paid for several hypercrates etc.. now im just meh because of how somethings are going to be handled coming up and becaise theyve gone back to not letting you repeat story content on chars easily.

 

That early exodus as many story players if not more left for the same reasons I did. The raiders/mmo'ers didnt leave becaise one of the first things they worked in next was not quality of life for story it was group content. How quickly people forget...

Edited August 11, 2017 by Suzsi

[Icykill_]

HAHAHAHAHA!!! They actually NERFED UC rewards from regs. They NERFED it!!!!!! Our feedback wasn't heard, our opinions didn't matter - they NERFED UCs...they clearly have a different path than their players do.

 

Pretty much this ^^^

 

I think they must be trying to sink the game... it's the only reason they are making one bad decision after another

[Tsillah]

Story players left because it was too slow and too much of a grind to play all of the stories. Thats why I left back then and have come back since it was fixed, stayed for Kotfe and Kotet, subbed for them btw and paid for several hypercrates etc.. now im just meh because of how somethings are going to be handled coming up and becaise theyve gone back to not letting you repeat story content on chars easily.

 

That early exodus as many story players if not more left for the same reasons I did. The raiders/mmo'ers didnt leave becaise one of the first things they worked in next was not quality of life for story it was group content. How quickly people forget...

 

Personally, I enjoy both the raiding and the stories and KotFE and KotET are the worst stories they ever wrote in this game pretty much. That's my view. You may understand now that not all people who enjoy the stories are the same. I'd rather roll a new character to go through the vanilla stories than play anymore KotFE/KotET chapters.

 

And what you shouldn't forget is that raiders already started leaving massively in the first month of release. The damage was already done before they had a chance to bring anything out. And besides, there were 8 full stories and planetary arcs. Story had a lot going for it but the game release with one operation. Just EV and it was buggy as hell. How quickly people forget...

[Suzsi]

Personally, I enjoy both the raiding and the stories and KotFE and KotET are the worst stories they ever wrote in this game pretty much. That's my view. You may understand now that not all people who enjoy the stories are the same. I'd rather roll a new character to go through the vanilla stories than play anymore KotFE/KotET chapters.

 

And what you shouldn't forget is that raiders already started leaving massively in the first month of release. The damage was already done before they had a chance to bring anything out. And besides, there were 8 full stories and planetary arcs. Story had a lot going for it but the game release with one operation. Just EV and it was buggy as hell. How quickly people forget...

 

8 full stories yes, but by the time you did one of those - having to do every tiny fetch quest on every planet just to be able to advance to the next planet - made it too daunting a prospect to roll another character for a new class story just to have to do all the fetch quests again. This did not get changed for a very long time, by then many story players had quit after just one or two of the class stories.

 

A lot came back for Kotfe and kotet, have since left again because 15 mins of story in the last update wasnt enough to hold story interest for long. You cant even repeat it easily like you can other chapters. Theres only a few of us story players around again atm holding out hope for more better, improved story updates.

 

Like and dislike for the actual story seems to be about half / half. Which is true of most stories. When / if the next new story comes along some of those who liked this one may not like it as much while others who didnt like the last one love it, fairly normal trend as each has different tastes.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Suzsi

[vadess]

HAHAHAHAHA!!! They actually NERFED UC rewards from regs. They NERFED it!!!!!! Our feedback wasn't heard, our opinions didn't matter - they NERFED UCs...they clearly have a different path than their players do.

 

If they really wanted a new incentive to get people to play ranked... Should be doing anything else BUT nerfing UC drops in regs. . Maybe teach some of the ranked players some manners? I dunno...

Edited August 12, 2017 by vadess
forgot a word

[Tsillah]

8 full stories yes, but by the time you did one of those - having to do every tiny fetch quest on every planet just to be able to advance to the next planet - made it too daunting a prospect to roll another character for a new class story just to have to do all the fetch quests again. This did not get changed for a very long time, by then many story players had quit after just one or two of the class stories.

 

A lot came back for Kotfe and kotet, have since left again because 15 mins of story in the last update wasnt enough to hold story interest for long. You cant even repeat it easily like you can other chapters. Theres only a few of us story players around again atm holding out hope for more better, improved story updates.

 

Like and dislike for the actual story seems to be about half / half. Which is true of most stories. When / if the next new story comes along some of those who liked this one may not like it as much while others who didnt like the last one love it, fairly normal trend as each has different tastes.

 

You keep refering to these "story players". Could you define that and how do you know so many of them since you seem to know what happened to most of them?

 

And you're right about tastes but I have to draw the line and just poor story writing. Meeting up with Satele and Marr to learn about going beyond light and dark and crafting a new weapon to be able to defeat Arcann is the prime example. In that chapter we didn't actually learn anything that explained what going beyond light and dark actually was. And you didn't actually need the weapon to defear Arcan.

 

Also Vaylin was immensely powerful we were told and how easily she met her demise was just poor. And the whole alliance commander thing was never going to fit with many classes. The irony is that it fits best for a trooper whereas the whole story with a family full of twisted force users is more of a jedi knight story.

 

And then in the end Valkorion is just Zash II. I admit, I do not understand how other people can forgive such things, but for me this sort of thing stands out like beacons in the night distracting me from the story because it just doesn't make sense. It ruins things for me. Valkorion is just pure Dark side as he showed in KotET and this whole going beyond light and dark was just bull, meaning that the whole progression in KotFE was meaningless.

 

But ok, people can like what they want to like. I do not contest that, but I really don't get it. Plot holes ok, plot mistakes? Not ok for me.

[Suzsi]

You keep refering to these "story players". Could you define that and how do you know so many of them since you seem to know what happened to most of them?

 

And you're right about tastes but I have to draw the line and just poor story writing. Meeting up with Satele and Marr to learn about going beyond light and dark and crafting a new weapon to be able to defeat Arcann is the prime example. In that chapter we didn't actually learn anything that explained what going beyond light and dark actually was. And you didn't actually need the weapon to defear Arcan.

 

Also Vaylin was immensely powerful we were told and how easily she met her demise was just poor. And the whole alliance commander thing was never going to fit with many classes. The irony is that it fits best for a trooper whereas the whole story with a family full of twisted force users is more of a jedi knight story.

 

And then in the end Valkorion is just Zash II. I admit, I do not understand how other people can forgive such things, but for me this sort of thing stands out like beacons in the night distracting me from the story because it just doesn't make sense. It ruins things for me. Valkorion is just pure Dark side as he showed in KotET and this whole going beyond light and dark was just bull, meaning that the whole progression in KotFE was meaningless.

 

But ok, people can like what they want to like. I do not contest that, but I really don't get it. Plot holes ok, plot mistakes? Not ok for me.

 

I hang on places like tumblr and facebook with rpers and fanfic writers and others in the fandoms who mostly play the bioware games ( swtor included ) for the stories. I also started in swtor with a full guild, who all lept on it because they were looking for essentially a kotor 3 and all left after playing for a few mnths because the class stories to play through at the time was too much of a grind to make it enjoyable.

 

I have been playing games online with people for years, everquest, swg, secret world, others. I know a lot of people and a lot of gamers, as with most communities like minded people tend to all congregate together and talk to each other and what not. In short a years long gamer with a lot of gamer friends.

 

[Edit] I also play other games like Galaxy of Heros, Force Arena and Rivals and chat with those people on discord. Youd be surprised how many ex players of games like this one you find in other games when you chat and find common interests . esp given they are all sw games.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Suzsi

[BJWyler]

I hang on places like tumblr and facebook with rpers and fanfic writers and others in the fandoms who mostly play the bioware games ( swtor included ) for the stories. I also started in swtor with a full guild, who all lept on it because they were looking for essentially a kotor 3 and all left after playing for a few mnths because the class stories to play through at the time was too much of a grind to make it enjoyable.

 

I have been playing games online with people for years, everquest, swg, secret world, others. I know a lot of people and a lot of gamers, as with most communities like minded people tend to all congregate together and talk to each other and what not. In short a years long gamer with a lot of gamer friends.

 

[Edit] I also play other games like Galaxy of Heros, Force Arena and Rivals and chat with those people on discord. Youd be surprised how many ex players of games like this one you find in other games when you chat and find common interests . esp given they are all sw games.

 

While what you have said in this and your previous posts is not entirely incorrect, it does not speak to the whole picture of what happened in the first year of the game's life, as Tsillah has said.

 

The lack of end game is main reason for what caused the first exodus of players within the first few months of the game's life. The content locusts who generally rush to max level to raid found that there was not much in the way of raiding content and what was there was buggy and broken. BioWare even stated after the fact that they did not expect people to burn through the leveling content as fast as they did and hence why there was no real improvement to end game content until 2.0 (which was a well received expansion and brought the game to a state that much of the playerbase believed the game should have launched in in the first place).

 

I have no doubt that many people that you know left the game for the reasons you state, hence why we get the double XP weekends which have grown into the "Enhanced" speedleveling curve we have forced on us today. But the majority of the players who came here for story were the ones that stuck it out with the game through the dark times of the Summer of Dead servers until the game went free to play. It wasn't until after that and 3.0 that the majority of the story players began to leave because, as usual, BioWare kept dragging their feet about admitting there would be no continuation of the individual class stories and companion stories, and future raiding content and stringing those players along month after month. By then as well, much of the PvP playerbase became alienated by BioWare's lack of action on that front and began to leave the game too.

 

But at the end of the day, it was the fact that most of the story players who play group content casually stuck around through thick and thin that kept the game going for as long as it did. Even though raids came with RotHC and SoR, the drought that occurred afterwards caused much of the raiding community to leave, the final straw being 4.0 and 5.0 and the fact that it marked about two years without a new raid by that point. The reason why BioWare went with story in 4.0 was because the bulk of the remaining playerbase were story driven players.

Edited August 12, 2017 by BJWyler

[Suzsi]

While what you have said in this and your previous posts is not entirely incorrect, it does not speak to the whole picture of what happened in the first year of the game's life, as Tsillah has said.

 

The lack of end game is main reason for what caused the first exodus of players within the first few months of the game's life. The content locusts who generally rush to max level to raid found that there was not much in the way of raiding content and what was there was buggy and broken. BioWare even stated after the fact that they did not expect people to burn through the leveling content as fast as they did and hence why there was no real improvement to end game content until 2.0 (which was a well received expansion and brought the game to a state that much of the playerbase believed the game should have launched in in the first place).

 

I have no doubt that many people that you know left the game for the reasons you state, hence why we get the double XP weekends which have grown into the "Enhanced" speedleveling curve we have forced on us today. But the majority of the players who came here for story were the ones that stuck it out with the game through the dark times of the Summer of Dead servers until the game went free to play. It wasn't until after that and 3.0 that the majority of the story players began to leave because, as usual, BioWare kept dragging their feet about admitting there would be no continuation of the individual class stories and companion stories, and future raiding content and stringing those players along month after month. By then as well, much of the PvP playerbase became alienated by BioWare's lack of action on that front and began to leave the game too.

 

But at the end of the day, it was the fact that most of the story players who play group content casually stuck around through thick and thin that kept the game going for as long as it did. Even though raids came with RotHC and SoR, the drought that occurred afterwards caused much of the raiding community to leave, the final straw being 4.0 and 5.0 and the fact that it marked about two years without a new raid by that point. The reason why BioWare went with story in 4.0 was because the bulk of the remaining playerbase were story driven players.

 

It was a good move because it kept those players around and bought players like me back who quit back then when the story content repeat ability was a massive unwanted grind.

 

Theyve just had another exodus after Kotet was finished with no promises of new story and even more after Quinn'/Elerias return was poorly handled and that whole story piece was 10 mins of story and a ton of useless grinding for side quests. So going back to my original point, turning the focus away from story now, at this point in the game was a mistake. Those players around for Kotfe and Kotet would still be here if they kept working the story but they didn't .. so oops all those guys dissappeared. As you said, the majority of those who were left (and some like me who came back) - story driven. So it makes no sense to shift away from the story now.

[Tsillah]

It was a good move because it kept those players around and bought players like me back who quit back then when the story content repeat ability was a massive unwanted grind.

 

Theyve just had another exodus after Kotet was finished with no promises of new story and even more after Quinn'/Elerias return was poorly handled and that whole story piece was 10 mins of story and a ton of useless grinding for side quests. So going back to my original point, turning the focus away from story now, at this point in the game was a mistake. Those players around for Kotfe and Kotet would still be here if they kept working the story but they didn't .. so oops all those guys dissappeared. As you said, the majority of those who were left (and some like me who came back) - story driven. So it makes no sense to shift away from the story now.

 

I have to apologize but I still see this as anecdotal evidence. With 5.0 again the biggest problem was for group content with the debacle of Galactic Command which made endgame gearing completely random and unsatisfactory. You speak of a mass exodus but most of the comments I saw about the story was that at least it was better than KotET.

 

Now I'm sure that what you explain is not without merit but I have no reason to believe that this mass exodus you refer to is real. Look at the reality of things. Right after 5.0 hit and people were already massively complaining about GC beforehand, the game took a big negative hit. Also the decision about making endgame sub only probably played a part in that. Now we know BW. They are slow to react let alone do something about it, but this time they came with multiple livestreams and instant promises on coming changes already in January. They then announced a return to group content and this is what's going on. And still there is story content within that. Not the way you want it, but it's there.

 

I know BW can be thickheaded but this new direction surely came for a reason. And so to me that simple reality means that it's not the story that created a mass exodus but the mistake called GC, perhaps the f2p/sub thing and the lack of new group content in this game. I'm sure some people may be disappointed because of the way story is being handled but by the look of things, that is definitely a minor concern as we see by what sort of content we're getting now.

 

So, sorry if I sound a bit direct, but I really am very much in disagreement with you on your assessment on how significant that group of story players is that you refer to and how many actually left or rather stopped paying their sub.

 

I mean do these story people sub? All they have to do is sub for one month and you can repeat the stories ad infinitum. Chances are a lot of you don't stay subbed then anyway. BW is obviously interested in regular income. I really don't see a reason to believe that a mass exodus of your group of people constitutes a mass exodus for the game.

 

Not trying to antagonize you but I just question the "mass" of your exodus.