Discussion Topic: Game Update 5.4 and the Next Roadmap

[dontbeswg]

Well done.

 

You've now just forced EA/Bioware to spend $Millions on Forum Irony Overload Protection.

 

Money that should be spent on content - like Story.

 

All The Best

 

Oh no, criticism can't be allowed... personal attacks of diet coke level that aren't happening at my place of employment!?!? This aggression will not stand... man.

[dontbeswg]

So at the moment I'm more interested in the other SW games that are being developed at the moment.

 

yub yub

[dontbeswg]

Because in Single Player content we don't have to deal with you?

 

Just a guess.

 

 

All The Best

 

So your comfort and convenience is worth tanking a game that took half a billion dollar to make... and i'm the selfish A hole right?

Edited August 6, 2017 by dontbeswg

[dontbeswg]

The fact that you spent the first half of this thread bragging how great you must be because other people pay your Sub for you.

 

All The Best

 

I don't believe I ever said I was great... In fact I think I vigorously explained that I'm competent and that you can be too but destructively decide not to be in this bad is cool devil may care... something.

 

Enjoy your game, i don't anymore.

[dontbeswg]

You'd be surprised what % of the total play time of a character is spent alone in MMO. When games where harder people used to group way more. In 2006 a study showed that in WoW players where grouped 30%40% of their time.

Since the MMO started targeting the more casual gamer, the majority of play time is spent... alone. Can't find the source but think it's north of 70% now.

 

You're 100% correct here and this is a problem!

 

I think this mind set has backfired on them now, as most mmos feel empty and hollow. The allure for all players on an online game is ultimately to interact. I think what game developers misunderstood is that most players HATE grinding and questing, and they responded by making these sections of the game easier and free.

 

The disconnect is that new players (not casual) really want to get involved with the veteran players (usually their friends who have brought them to the game) as quickly as possible and the impediment of that is this long level cap at the entry of most mmos.

 

I think a brief base level cap with a very fun and informative tutorial on how to play that is properly progressive in challenge would be perfect, allowing players to quickly get involved with end game players. In a sense, the end of the game needs more refinement than the beginning, and that hasn't happened in an mmo in over a decade.

 

Regarding SWTOR story wise in SWTOR it's the minority that do the content grouped.

 

Regarding the heroic, with the current power of the companions, even with the bonus of playing grouped, most players do them alone.

 

The only part players do group is indeed PvP, FP, and OPs. OPs counts for like 5% of the player base. Leaves us with PvP and FPs that's at best 25% of the play time.

 

All in all MMO players want to be able to interact with others and group from time to time although the majority of the time is spend alone. Hence why you need both single player content and multiplayer.

 

.

 

Again, this is where the developers are not seeing the problem with these games. In elder MMOs RP was essential because there wasn't themed story or instanced combat for the most part, so the player base found an inventive way to make the game interesting by employing D&D.

 

Those days are not coming back because most of those players aren't either alive (sadly) or playing anymore not to mention that it is taxing and a lot of work to create that degree of role play (its not organic its work). The next challenge for these games is to find a way to integrate organic Role play into the game through it's features.

 

For a star wars game it should be really easy, for example design an involved smuggling game play for a smuggler class. In GTA they have a feature where you essentially need to resupply your stronghold (bunker) with supplies and it requires a small group to come with you to complete it. You can create a more involved situation and the better a player gets at it the more renowned he can be to the community, hell maybe even having a little fun with it by doing it in character (silly or serious)... maybe guilds could sprout around this type of game type (ie smuggler guilds).

 

More over how easy would it be to create a bounty hunter guild... don't we already have that?! But instead of this non-interactive bounty hunter system we have not what if they really hunted players?! Yes we did this in SWG... yes it was highly popular, challenging, and fun! In this new age of mmos we have eliminated the risk factor of dying, and while I don't advocate we bring back death penalty, I would like to see a death reward for killing a player. I think it would be fun, to track a player through safe zones and wait till he is in a player non-neutral zone where you can execute them.

 

I think the thing that is missing in story content is not just difficulty, or multiplayer community, but FUN and interesting content. Stories really are not that enriching to the character, we all share the same line, find out the same things, and are barely challenged along the way... that's not fun. However built in game play that allows you to build your own story is what games like SWG did, and unlike this game it will be remembered... Obviously that game failed however, but like all things it has come around full circle to the time where people want sandbox content...

 

hopefully a developer can capitalize on that and convince a company with cash to develop it.

Edited August 6, 2017 by dontbeswg

[Tsillah]

I'm going to guess, that they saw the increase in subscribers and saw GC as a way to retain those subscribers. All of the 5.0 changes essentially locked GC behind a paywall, they removed set bonus gearing from other methods and locked f2p and pref. out of content by removing passes.

 

I don't even need to be cynical to see the reasoning behind it, I'm also glad it backfired on BioWare and EA.

 

When they realise that inclusive methods work better than using sticks, they may actually start getting somewhere with improving the health of the population. BioWare are simply viewing players as revenue, which completely contradicts the EA philosophy of;

 

Locking GC behind a paywall was another thing that backfired, but I was talking more about how GC actually worked and that it replaced other gearing methods entirely. Then they spend 6+ months "fixing" it.

 

End result: a more complicated mess than we ever had before.

 

And we all saw it coming.

 

Now I get that you want to try some things out as a company. And some of the things you want to try can fail. I'm not talking about that. Some doomsayers will be right eventually by being persistent. That's not the sort of evidence I'm talking here. I'm talking about there being clear and evident reasons not to do something and then doing it anyway, because you think you pull one over on everybody else.

 

To think that raiders and pvp'ers were going to enjoy random gearboxes as sole source of gear, especially since it had already failed for pvp before in this very game is just pure madness. That's what happened here though.

 

Making endgame subs only. That was the part of the gamble that could go either way. It might've worked. In fact I think it backfired on them mostly because they chased people away from subs with GC. I do believe there is actually a good or at least a fair chance that making endgame sub only would've worked if they hadn't botched up endgame gearing with GC. It's like they took a business risk that could work out and then dug a hole under it themselves to make it fail just the same.

 

Oh well. Let's see how the rest of this year pans out. Anybody believe we will get a new expansion this year again? Personally, I'd be very surprised. One part of me wants to think they are being slow with the ops because they are working on the next expansion to get it out before x-mas, but the bigger part of me thinks they will use the new ops as the reason for a delay till spring.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Tsillah

[dontbeswg]

People tell you it's a bad idea, but you do it anyway. That's how I see GC.

 

Why do you think they got rid of Ben quick, fast, and in a hurry?

 

EA is all about making these kinds of moves (releasing the much anticipated battlefront without a campaign that was asked for ) but they just don't want you to know they do these sort of things... hence why you guys still refer to bioware as a living entity even though it's long gone with the doctors.

[kodrac]

Ok right there, take GCW if you didn't pvp you missed out on a huge part of the game. Again I ask why? Why actively avoid a highly entertaining segment of the game. If you never fought over a city in SWG.. you missed out. You're right though, you could have sat in a cantina socializing as a dancer or made weapons and items to be sold, but again you missed out, more over i did both of those things and pvped... I didn't shun one because it wasn't "my thing"

 

SWG was my first MMO and I was put off by PvP by getting ganked a few times. But, that game being what it was - a sandbox - I eventually had to reach out to the rest of the community and become a part of it. After some time I had become a pretty hard core PvP regular. Our small guild created a large city with a massive base complex. We became the raid scene. An SWG raid had a different meaning than an EQ raid. It was only possible because the entire game was community driven.

 

But time has passed and I've adapted to what MMOs have changed into. Sandboxes are too much "work" for a community and theme parks carry you. They don't allow for you to get out of your shell and take on new challenges that you might not know you'll enjoy. For whatever reason, be it the questing or the scripted AI, a large portion of the MMO community has become shallow and selfish. And the games cater to it for sales and shareholders. When the devs do try to nudge you into different areas (like PvPing for a companion) there's major pushback because up to then they had allowed you to stay in your comfort zone and never have to leave it. MMOs of old didn't used to be that way.

 

Basically, or TL;DR, everyone's railing against you because you're telling them to get out of their comfort zone and they're pushing back. But you're also right.

[dontbeswg]

I'm also glad it backfired on BioWare (?) and EA.

 

contradicts the EA philosophy of; .

 

Rob the customer blind, take a legendary title and gradually make it mediocre, and treat our staff and grunt laborers like trash...

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/10/electronic-arts-worst-company-consumerist_n_3052000.html

 

https://www.cnet.com/news/how-electronic-arts-stopped-being-the-worst-company-in-america/

 

I remember reading back in 2000 the first type of article...

 

Bioware is gone by the way, they are now EA. Keep in mind Bioware was flawed too, they made buggy games and the end result of this very flawed game is very much their fault, but Bioware no longer makes games EA does.

[Jdast]

I have been polite and respectful up until now. That response was meant for Jdast for his comment he made about my signature. There was no reason for you to be rude and hateful about something I call my boyfriend. That was uncalled for.

 

There was no reason at all for you to even respond except that you think you are some person that we all need to listen to. You are not. You are no more important than anyone else in the game but you keep pushing the fact that you think everyone that doesn't play like you is not playing right.

 

I frankly could care less what you think. I am normally very patient and respectful but you crossed a line so if you can't adjust that other people like to play differently, tough luck.

 

Since this thread has already been derailed, I would just like to say: Thanks Casira, now my boyfriend wants me to call him "hero". But more importantly:

 

This is your impolite and disrespectful mean girl post?!?!?!??!?!

 

Girrrllllllll, we need to have a tete a tete (sorry, don't know how to add the funky french accent marks). I mean this in the nicest way possible: YOU SUCK AT BEING MEAN.

 

Let me put it this way: Florida, Ibiza and Majorca on their brightest days at their respective high-noons throw more shade on hunky guys in way too small speedos than your post.

 

Let me put it this way: Your post makes Mary Friggin Poppins look mean.

 

Do you say "H, E Double Hockey Sticks" instead of Hell? I could go on.

 

In any case, I think it is quite clear that there are many ways to enjoy MMOs (Deewe had a good post too).

 

Dasty the Tiara and Speedo - wearing Hutt (try to get that image out of your heads)

Edited August 6, 2017 by Jdast

[dontbeswg]

SWG was my first MMO and I was put off by PvP by getting ganked a few times. But, that game being what it was - a sandbox - I eventually had to reach out to the rest of the community and become a part of it. After some time I had become a pretty hard core PvP regular. Our small guild created a large city with a massive base complex. We became the raid scene. An SWG raid had a different meaning than an EQ raid. It was only possible because the entire game was community driven.

 

That's the magic of those games friend, and there is demand for it again, but...

 

But time has passed and I've adapted to what MMOs have changed into. Sandboxes are too much "work" for a community and theme parks carry you. They don't allow for you to get out of your shell and take on new challenges that you might not know you'll enjoy. For whatever reason, be it the questing or the scripted AI, a large portion of the MMO community has become shallow and selfish. And the games cater to it for sales and shareholders. When the devs do try to nudge you into different areas (like PvPing for a companion) there's major pushback because up to then they had allowed you to stay in your comfort zone and never have to leave it. MMOs of old didn't used to be that way.

 

...A smart group of devs is going to need to find a way to make these elements organic, but if you think about it it's not that much player work. For a city battle, we have tonnnnnnnnnnns of people who love to decorate and organize strongholds and guildships, why not have those same enthusiastic people designing defenses to a city or ship?

 

A guild always has this group of players; the battle guy, the planner, the mouth, the horder, and the accountant, all a developer has to do is make the game play to the strengths of these people rather than exclude them. I would love to see guilds go back to the days where the crafter is just as important as the uber warrior. I think you saw that desire reflected in the community when we got the Conquest system in this game... it just needed more game play elements to make it interesting and I believe it can be done with creativity and effort (something mmos haven't had in a decade).

 

Basically, or TL;DR, everyone's railing against you because you're telling them to get out of their comfort zone and they're pushing back. But you're also right.

 

Well I would hope my perspective is accurate, I've been playing these games for over a decade and I'm in the same wheel house you are where you and I have seen the last decade of the theme park MMO that has taken a game type designed around community and turned it into an antisocial (when the world is becoming more social) medium!?

Edited August 6, 2017 by dontbeswg

[dontbeswg]

Since this thread has already been derailed

 

More than happy to discuss the game with you...

[dontbeswg]

Oh well. Let's see how the rest of this year pans out. Anybody believe we will get a new expansion this year again? Personally, I'd be very surprised. One part of me wants to think they are being slow with the ops because they are working on the next expansion to get it out before x-mas, but the bigger part of me thinks they will use the new ops as the reason for a delay till spring.

 

Here is the next paradigm shift in this game, this will be the first time we don't get an annual expansion. It will be interesting to see the reaction of the community when this happens.

[Jdast]

More than happy to discuss the game with you...

 

Okay, you busted me: I actually didn't put you on ignore, I only have Menace on ignore.

 

Bud, I actually agree with a lot of what you say -- you need to have group-oriented incentives. I think Deewe summed it up really well, though: You need both. Obviously, one can disagree on the exact balance , but understand that for at least a segment of us, I don't mind doing 8-10 man grouping, but I find more than that impersonal. I can't tell you how bored I was shooting frostbolts in Molten Core in WoW.

 

While we may disagree on specifics: It is because of Keith's statement that MMO (meaning group activities) will be encouraged in the future that I am now bringing 3 new subcribers on board. With that said, for storyline progression, I think it is great that the new FP has a story mode.

 

I hesitate to say this, but I've kicked back a cocktail so I'll say it. At first I really despised ZionHal as a poster, but now I've grown to love him: because of him, I pay more attention to the story. I stopped and thought about issues and choices. Bottom line: I get that this MMO needs both. Hopefully, they are not mutually exclusive.

 

With that said, you still seem to have a bias to raids and ranked pvp. That's cool, but I don't understand why you can't have both.

 

Dasty

Edited August 6, 2017 by Jdast

[JattaGin]

Why do you think they got rid of Ben quick, fast, and in a hurry?

 

You tell us. You, and your crystal ball. Or inside knowledge.

[ivanhedgehog]

You tell us. You, and your crystal ball. Or inside knowledge.

 

It was that thing at the company picknik..You know the one...all of those pictures.....

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I deem it nonsensical because when you review your posts you are all over the show, you actually fail to make sense.

 

That and you seem to be blatantly trolling so there is that too.

 

So you believe EA thinks this game has a future? You think this game is being developed in a manner that isn't below functional?

 

We all should be mad that this game is still a sub2play at all.

 

Proof positive there ... your response had nothing to do with what you are replying to.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Making endgame subs only. That was the part of the gamble that could go either way. It might've worked. In fact I think it backfired on them mostly because they chased people away from subs with GC. I do believe there is actually a good or at least a fair chance that making endgame sub only would've worked if they hadn't botched up endgame gearing with GC. It's like they took a business risk that could work out and then dug a hole under it themselves to make it fail just the same.

.

 

Removing passes was the single most stupidest business decision this game has made in the past 12 months imo.

 

I get they wanted to try gate people into subbing but they basically put up a "my way or the highway" sign and people chose the highway.

I also get they may not have been making much money from the passes due to referrals but the simple solution there is either removing referral CC entirely or making things like passes (maybe even add a sub token) cash only - not CC.

 

Of course compound the fact we now have less people to participate in end game MP with which devalues our sub, the gear grind is utterly horrible (it seems so many people around here have finally had the wool pulled over their eyes in regards to BWA "improving" GC people now think it's good enough - no it's utterly horrible still) and a massive reduction in content released this year and you can see why the population has hit rock bottom for the life time of this game.

Unfortunately it can still go lower which is why when I read "nerfing daily UC for PVP" I almost literally get desk meet face. I mean are they actively trying to kill the game now hoping they'll get moved to work on Anthem or something?

[dontbeswg]

Okay, you busted me: I actually didn't put you on ignore, I only have Menace on ignore.

 

Well it would be a waste of time to ignore someone just because they disagree with you, but I get needing a break it's why I take long periods (when I'm unsubbed usually now I know why lol) between saying things on the forums. Right now I'm in the mood to vent and yes I am angry at the community.

 

I don't mind doing 8-10 man grouping, but I find more than that impersonal. I can't tell you how bored I was shooting frostbolts in Molten Core in WoW.

 

That's a great point, a lot of people have rose colored memories of 40 man raids, but for the most part the mechanics did not challenge 40 people. This is a hell of a challenge for devs, but I think world bosses with timers and legitimate mechanics that really put the screws to 50 or 60 man collective for 10-15 minutes would be wonderful.

 

Again this is really why these games need open world pvp around well designed set pieces, I would love to see star wars keeps where a pve boss is the objective to defend, with an attacking pve boss that the opposition has to clear a path for. Epic events that organically form and occur often but not so often they lose their special feel.

 

While we may disagree on specifics: It is because of Keith's statement that MMO (meaning group activities) will be encouraged in the future that I am now bringing 3 new subcribers on board. With that said, for storyline progression, I think it is great that the new FP has a story mode.

 

I hesitate to say this, but I've kicked back a cocktail so I'll say it. At first I really despised ZionHal as a poster, but now I've grown to love him: because of him, I pay more attention to the story. I stopped and thought about issues and choices. Bottom line: I get that this MMO needs both. Hopefully, they are not mutually exclusive.

 

With that said, you still seem to have a bias to raids and ranked pvp. That's cool, but I don't understand why you can't have both.

 

Dasty

 

To the last segment, I'm not saying you can't have both but under the current game template if raids and quality pvp are not put first, considering the established player base is well footed in the game, you're not going to retain the knowledgeable and important members of the game.

 

People like dulfy, bant, and other established theory craft players and think hubs are vital to the game. They don't just provide guides and improvement strats but they also kick up excitement for the game. They champion it in a very professional way that brings in people just as much as a trailer for the game.

 

To be honest, i want a different star wars mmo at this point... I feel the theme park days are done, and hopefully there is a smart dev group out there working EA that will convince them to give this property another go.

Edited August 6, 2017 by dontbeswg

[dontbeswg]

Proof positive there ... your response had nothing to do with what you are replying to.

 

You're not reading your own responses, I directly replied to the point that you continually make that I'm trolling when I'm legitimately upset about people like you who ruin the game and EA's neglect of this game that still requires people to pay a monthly sub to enjoy it.

[Transcendent]

Oh well. Let's see how the rest of this year pans out. Anybody believe we will get a new expansion this year again? Personally, I'd be very surprised.

 

I'm not expecting to see one, I'm not even sure I want to see one.

[dontbeswg]

Removing passes was the single most stupidest business decision this game has made in the past 12 months imo.

 

 

They wanted to lock in those players from 4.0 who figured out that you could pay as you play, they just overestimated the enjoyment value the new player base had in the game. It's why they changed course quickly.

 

I'm kind of surprised EA hasn't put more money into the game development, but people will soon realize they are funneling funds from this game into the development of Anthem.

[dontbeswg]

I'm not expecting to see one, I'm not even sure I want to see one.

 

You won't, they've committed to Anthem and this game will be closed once Anthem launches.

[dontbeswg]

You tell us. You, and your crystal ball. Or inside knowledge.

 

Because EA likes a fall guy, why do you think they keep the bioware title on the games when the division doesn't truly exist.

[dontbeswg]

It's a shame that EA didn't take more care in valuing the Bioware name, with the production capital EA always brings to the table you would think the creative developers Bioware had would have done a lot but EA didn't allow the group to maintain executive control when they brought them on.

 

I will blame Bioware for one thing, they didn't listen to the established MMO design/developer crews they brought in from SOE when they constructed this game. If they did this game would have been stronger at launch and it wouldn't be suffering from the internal pull to try and make this mmo into a mutant of a game.

 

Overwatch is a perfect example of how you make a hybrid game. It's a unique take on an FPS, it has interesting characters that don't all play the same way but they didn't take out the FPS in the game. Bioware (when it existed) decided that they wanted to take the Massive Multiplayer out of MMO and it backfired terribly at launch, and somehow those same "thinkers" that remained got into the ear of the executive branch of EA and said, "Remember when we nearly killed the game with a horrible idea, we'd like to try that again!"

Edited August 6, 2017 by dontbeswg