Discussion Topic: Game Update 5.4 and the Next Roadmap

[orangenee]

Kiethy poos, could you please do something with Manaan?

 

It's just sad to have this lovely planet being a one and done with nothing else on it.

[Suzsi]

I have to apologize but I still see this as anecdotal evidence. With 5.0 again the biggest problem was for group content with the debacle of Galactic Command which made endgame gearing completely random and unsatisfactory. You speak of a mass exodus but most of the comments I saw about the story was that at least it was better than KotET.

 

Now I'm sure that what you explain is not without merit but I have no reason to believe that this mass exodus you refer to is real. Look at the reality of things. Right after 5.0 hit and people were already massively complaining about GC beforehand, the game took a big negative hit. Also the decision about making endgame sub only probably played a part in that. Now we know BW. They are slow to react let alone do something about it, but this time they came with multiple livestreams and instant promises on coming changes already in January. They then announced a return to group content and this is what's going on. And still there is story content within that. Not the way you want it, but it's there.

 

I know BW can be thickheaded but this new direction surely came for a reason. And so to me that simple reality means that it's not the story that created a mass exodus but the mistake called GC, perhaps the f2p/sub thing and the lack of new group content in this game. I'm sure some people may be disappointed because of the way story is being handled but by the look of things, that is definitely a minor concern as we see by what sort of content we're getting now.

 

So, sorry if I sound a bit direct, but I really am very much in disagreement with you on your assessment on how significant that group of story players is that you refer to and how many actually left or rather stopped paying their sub.

 

I mean do these story people sub? All they have to do is sub for one month and you can repeat the stories ad infinitum. Chances are a lot of you don't stay subbed then anyway. BW is obviously interested in regular income. I really don't see a reason to believe that a mass exodus of your group of people constitutes a mass exodus for the game.

 

Not trying to antagonize you but I just question the "mass" of your exodus.

 

Ive been subbed this whole time. Came back when I was talking to a friend who was playing kotfe and she had mentioned content with the original LIs (Aric's reunion) and started fresh on a new server then. It was so much better playing the stories that in between new chapters thats exactly what I did. I played a trooper through first, adored Arics reunion, then played a JK to give Therons romance a crack.. a BH for Torian and so forth. Played all 8 class stories and have 19 characters all up O.o because when there are things to look forward to, thats what true story players do.. play every different possibility.. look for each scrap of different dialogue and so on.

There's some Kotfe chapters that arent my favs and others I love.

 

To me, our server started dropping in numbers once people got through Kotet. Picked up again with Iokath but dropped fast when that story content was so small. I can't go by every server, only the one I play on. It was an RP server before they changed that, so maybe more likely to house story players than other servers.

 

Im still subbed now but have seriously considered dropping my sub for a while because the story updates are so small right now and fsr between they dont seem worthwhile holding a sub for.

 

[Edit] actually we are quite likely to sub and stay subbed just for the extra character slots, buy extra slots and so on. Also hypercrates when that ine armor set would make our chars look truly awesome in the cut scenes - at least thats what I do as a story player.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Suzsi

[Tsillah]

Ive been subbed this whole time. Came back when I was talking to a friend who was playing kotfe and she had mentioned content with the original LIs (Aric's reunion) and started fresh on a new server then. It was so much better playing the stories that in between new chapters thats exactly what I did. I played a trooper through first, adored Arics reunion, then played a JK to give Therons romance a crack.. a BH for Torian and so forth. Played all 8 class stories and have 19 characters all up O.o because when there are things to look forward to, thats what true story players do.. play every different possibility.. look for each scrap of different dialogue and so on.

There's some Kotfe chapters that arent my favs and others I love.

It's certainly fair enough if you enjoyed KotFE, but I do get a bit allergic when people talk about "true" anything. I've had up to 37 characters but am down to 20 atm. I've played them through the old stories but with the vast majority of them I completely bypass and ignore KotFE and KotET. They are not worth my time because I find the stories themselves to be so poor that I do not wish to put them through that.

 

I'm certainly not interested in joining any elitist group whether they are "true raiders" or "true story players", but KotFE and KotET are an insult to my intelligence. It's truly annoying that I have a couple of characters that did as little as one chapter or a few more and I cannot get them out of my quest log. Even in a fantasy type setting I want stories to make sense within that setting. I didn't get that from this Valkorion soap.

 

But, I am not contesting your right to enjoy it. That is entirely fair enough.

 

To me, our server started dropping in numbers once people got through Kotet. Picked up again with Iokath but dropped fast when that story content was so small. I can't go by every server, only the one I play on. It was an RP server before they changed that, so maybe more likely to house story players than other servers.

RP servers are a bit different but they are also generally low population servers. Progenitor certainly is, but I never considered the RP crowd as any sort of majority. On a server like TRE where the biggest population is, at least in the EU, group content is infinitely more important I guess and interestingly the moments you mention her coincide with group content issues. People left after GC was proven to be crap and people came back when the first ops boss was released and a new daily area. Sure there was some story but the big news was the new ops boss.

 

Im still subbed now but have seriously considered dropping my sub for a while because the story updates are so small right now and fsr between they dont seem worthwhile holding a sub for.

And there you have it. Group content players have more reason to stay subbed and on average I would assume they drop more money into the game. I think BW really did themselves a disfavour with GC. It's better than on release but it's still not great. But if all you care about is story, then yeah, there's no reason to stay subbed. Doesn't mean you have to stop playing. Of course in the end, it's the paying customer that matters most to BW.

[Suzsi]

It's certainly fair enough if you enjoyed KotFE, but I do get a bit allergic when people talk about "true" anything. I've had up to 37 characters but am down to 20 atm. I've played them through the old stories but with the vast majority of them I completely bypass and ignore KotFE and KotET. They are not worth my time because I find the stories themselves to be so poor that I do not wish to put them through that.

 

I'm certainly not interested in joining any elitist group whether they are "true raiders" or "true story players", but KotFE and KotET are an insult to my intelligence. It's truly annoying that I have a couple of characters that did as little as one chapter or a few more and I cannot get them out of my quest log. Even in a fantasy type setting I want stories to make sense within that setting. I didn't get that from this Valkorion soap.

 

But, I am not contesting your right to enjoy it. That is entirely fair enough.

 

 

RP servers are a bit different but they are also generally low population servers. Progenitor certainly is, but I never considered the RP crowd as any sort of majority. On a server like TRE where the biggest population is, at least in the EU, group content is infinitely more important I guess and interestingly the moments you mention her coincide with group content issues. People left after GC was proven to be crap and people came back when the first ops boss was released and a new daily area. Sure there was some story but the big news was the new ops boss.

 

 

And there you have it. Group content players have more reason to stay subbed and on average I would assume they drop more money into the game. I think BW really did themselves a disfavour with GC. It's better than on release but it's still not great. But if all you care about is story, then yeah, there's no reason to stay subbed. Doesn't mean you have to stop playing. Of course in the end, it's the paying customer that matters most to BW.

 

If i dont have a sub I dont play, ii find the limits on creds, char slots etc far too annoying to play without one. I could be wrong but I think the only ones who do that for the most part are people who truly cant afford a sub and wouldnt be playing at all if it wasnt ftp. Or people who are super casual and only jump in once in a while.

 

I try to stick it out when and where I can but when there isn't much of a reason to log in and play, its wasted money for a sub not being used, you know? Like we arent poor people but we cant afford to throw away money on entrainment thats not being used.

 

Group content ppl in thst regards arent much different - no new group content, old stuff getting stale no reason for them to stick around until theres promise of more. Story players do the same just for story not group content. Different crowds but ultimately the same effect.

[Tsillah]

If i dont have a sub I dont play, ii find the limits on creds, char slots etc far too annoying to play without one. I could be wrong but I think the only ones who do that for the most part are people who truly cant afford a sub and wouldnt be playing at all if it wasnt ftp. Or people who are super casual and only jump in once in a while.

 

I try to stick it out when and where I can but when there isn't much of a reason to log in and play, its wasted money for a sub not being used, you know? Like we arent poor people but we cant afford to throw away money on entrainment thats not being used.

 

Group content ppl in thst regards arent much different - no new group content, old stuff getting stale no reason for them to stick around until theres promise of more. Story players do the same just for story not group content. Different crowds but ultimately the same effect.

 

Oh you don't have to convince me that it makes no sense to spend money on something you don't use.

[Suzsi]

Oh you don't have to convince me that it makes no sense to spend money on something you don't use.

 

Well the story players, we will keep coming back because no one else does what bioware does, no where else for us to go but tons of other games out there do group stuff. So when your in an ocean do you swim against the current - trying to compete with the next bigger, stronger wave that comes along as your resources and strength fades- or do you go with the current and use one big, unique wave to carry you to shore.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Suzsi

[DarthSpuds]

Well the story players, we will keep coming back because no one else does what bioware does,.

 

Even Bioware doesn't do it now.

 

KofFE/ET was, story wise, merely a very poor parody of the story writing that went into class stories.

 

All The Best

[Suzsi]

Even Bioware doesn't do it now.

 

KofFE/ET was, story wise, merely a very poor parody of the story writing that went into class stories.

 

All The Best

 

Thats a matter of personal opinion of course.

 

I personally loved Kotfe and Kotet. Ive no problem with the story direction having been consolidated the way it was (and expected it because no way they could run 8 seperate stories in expansions, was never going to happen).

 

Vaylin is one of my favs from there, she was very well done. I also really like Lana and Theron, Empress Acina and others weve met along the way.

 

I liked some chapters more than others. There are some class stories I didn't much care for either. The planet stories were ok, some better than others etc.. its all much the same. Like some, dont like some and thats different for everyones different tastes as well.

 

I love the fact that they had started including class companions again in the story, unlike previous expansions where they had no real role at all. There are others I am hoping will return and so forth - something to look forward to.

 

There was always something I was looking forward to throughout Kotfe and Kotet. Questions I wanted answers for and so on (still is really).

 

But honestly anyone who thought they could keep that many different stories running and think they can go back to doing that now is not considering just how much would be involved in doing that and need to look beyond it to the best of what is possible, not what never will be and was never going to be.

[Transcendent]

Now I'm sure that what you explain is not without merit but I have no reason to believe that this mass exodus you refer to is real. Look at the reality of things. Right after 5.0 hit and people were already massively complaining about GC beforehand, the game took a big negative hit. Also the decision about making endgame sub only probably played a part in that. Now we know BW. They are slow to react let alone do something about it, but this time they came with multiple livestreams and instant promises on coming changes already in January. They then announced a return to group content and this is what's going on. And still there is story content within that. Not the way you want it, but it's there.

 

I highlighted that last part, I'll get to that in one second.

 

All of the above points are valid criticism of where 5.0 has fallen flat, alongside the trickle feed of new group content. The only group content provided on launch of 5.0 was "Uprisings", which in my opinion were poorly done (I've run 4 since 5.0 landed and then only recently).

 

On the story aspect, I find it interesting when people compare it to the original stories and RotHC / SoR. One of the people I work with was going to come back to play the story, however once he found out that the story was instanced and he couldn't group for that content, in the same manner as the original class stories, he simply wasn't interested. How many group story players have BioWare alienated by making the expansion story single player only?

 

Considering this is meant to be an MMORPG there seems to be an issue with BioWare Austin producing content that is inclusive. I said this in another thread, but it seems that the developers have the mindset they are producing a "once and done" game, and not what is meant to be a AAA MMORPG that is meant to last longer and be re-playable within a group.

[Tsillah]

Well the story players, we will keep coming back because no one else does what bioware does, no where else for us to go but tons of other games out there do group stuff. So when your in an ocean do you swim against the current - trying to compete with the next bigger, stronger wave that comes along as your resources and strength fades- or do you go with the current and use one big, unique wave to carry you to shore.

 

Personally I prefer to fight until they offer a better shore to land on. When I create a new character I play them through the vanilla story line and I will still go to Makeb and the SoR story.

 

Even Makeb and SoR at least have decent story lines that I can be ok with, though I do miss the class stories for sure. I really rather skip KotFE and KotET and just enjoy making new characters and doing group content, decorating and some crafting.

 

Also the Iokath story, after doing it once on each side, do not inspire me to play it again. Unless I want one of the two companions, I won't bother.

 

I agree that SWTOR does story a helluva lot better than the other MMOs out there. That doesn't mean for me though that they can get away with anything. They need to do better than they have with the last two expansions. Now, there are a few really good chapters in there, but they are swallowed up in the total. I already feel that the fp's that are linked to SoR were a bit grindy but especially KotFE I just can't bear to repeat. It's too long and uninspiring to just get it done even. There are some chapters I really don't enjoy and just feel like a drag. Just thinking about playing through KotFE comes with feelings of despair and exasperation.

 

The new stories are also fully instanced pretty much so they all kinda feel like flash points. I think that the class stories that happen on planets where there's a lot of other stuff to do actually feel more dynamic and open because of it.

 

The thing is, I really enjoy the mission approach of Mass Effect 1-3 for example, but that's a single player game. In an MMO, I just think that the original set up with stories happening on open planets with just parts instanced just always felt better to me. I just think they should've started with fewer planets with bigger level ranges because I don't think they got the most out of the planets we have and people can zip through there way too quickly. It doesn't build communities like that. That's the only real gripe I had with the old stories is that too many planets were involved. They could've easily taken 4 or 5 planets out and save them for expansion but oh well, water under the bridge.

 

KotFE and KotET have the opposite problem: none of the cool planets we visit were actually explorable. Iokath now is available but I don't think it was particularly well designed. It doesn't invite and the new type of dailies are just weird af. On the upside at least there's a decent gathering zone.

 

But really, they just need to do better again with the stories. They did in the past. I didn't even start operations till the game was live a few months and the mass exodus had already set in. I enjoyed the stories and all that. I haven't really had that feeling much since Makeb hit the servers. The game peaked with story at release and they never were able to maintain that level. We did get a lot of ops but it was too late already.

 

I enjoy both sides of the game but when something just not good enough and feels like a drag I won't do it. Such it is with KotFE and KotET for me. At least the new ops fights are interesting.

[Suzsi]

Personally I prefer to fight until they offer a better shore to land on. When I create a new character I play them through the vanilla story line and I will still go to Makeb and the SoR story.

 

Even Makeb and SoR at least have decent story lines that I can be ok with, though I do miss the class stories for sure. I really rather skip KotFE and KotET and just enjoy making new characters and doing group content, decorating and some crafting.

 

Also the Iokath story, after doing it once on each side, do not inspire me to play it again. Unless I want one of the two companions, I won't bother.

 

I agree that SWTOR does story a helluva lot better than the other MMOs out there. That doesn't mean for me though that they can get away with anything. They need to do better than they have with the last two expansions. Now, there are a few really good chapters in there, but they are swallowed up in the total. I already feel that the fp's that are linked to SoR were a bit grindy but especially KotFE I just can't bear to repeat. It's too long and uninspiring to just get it done even. There are some chapters I really don't enjoy and just feel like a drag. Just thinking about playing through KotFE comes with feelings of despair and exasperation.

 

The new stories are also fully instanced pretty much so they all kinda feel like flash points. I think that the class stories that happen on planets where there's a lot of other stuff to do actually feel more dynamic and open because of it.

 

The thing is, I really enjoy the mission approach of Mass Effect 1-3 for example, but that's a single player game. In an MMO, I just think that the original set up with stories happening on open planets with just parts instanced just always felt better to me. I just think they should've started with fewer planets with bigger level ranges because I don't think they got the most out of the planets we have and people can zip through there way too quickly. It doesn't build communities like that. That's the only real gripe I had with the old stories is that too many planets were involved. They could've easily taken 4 or 5 planets out and save them for expansion but oh well, water under the bridge.

 

KotFE and KotET have the opposite problem: none of the cool planets we visit were actually explorable. Iokath now is available but I don't think it was particularly well designed. It doesn't invite and the new type of dailies are just weird af. On the upside at least there's a decent gathering zone.

 

But really, they just need to do better again with the stories. They did in the past. I didn't even start operations till the game was live a few months and the mass exodus had already set in. I enjoyed the stories and all that. I haven't really had that feeling much since Makeb hit the servers. The game peaked with story at release and they never were able to maintain that level. We did get a lot of ops but it was too late already.

 

I enjoy both sides of the game but when something just not good enough and feels like a drag I won't do it. Such it is with KotFE and KotET for me. At least the new ops fights are interesting.

 

It is interesting to see how different everyone is on their likes and dislikes of stories

I played Makeb through start to finish once and that was enough for me. Ive had to do some of the first qiests on others just to get enough level to move right on past it to SoR which I love doing. When I can skip all of Makeb I do, gladly. I also think Lana and Therons involvement in SoR is why I love it so much. I also always do Ziost and of course done Kotfe/Kotet plenty of times and have other chars in various stages of making their way through it now.

 

I always loved the story mode flashpoints (particularly the ones that have someone talking to you over coms, it feels real) and was always dissapointed operations and uprisings did not have the same solo mode options. Part of what I love about Kotfe and Kotet was the fact that in addition to getting a ton of story there was also solo mode battles that felt flashpoint epic like along the way. I cant say how much I adore Voss in Kotet for its flashpoint/ epic war battle feel, there arent enough words. I loved it. I love when they are done like this because of the party / companion banter along the way that just enhances the story experience for me.

 

Would I have been happy for this next installment of the Kotor era to have been a single player rpg? Hell yes, but it wasn't so this is what we get - in a way thats okay to me too because we've been getting more story then we would have if it was sp with a few dlcs.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Suzsi

[Tsillah]

It is interesting to see how different everyone is on their likes and dislikes of stories

I played Makeb through start to finish once and that was enough for me. Ive had to do some of the first qiests on others just to get enough level to move right on past it to SoR which I love doing. When I can skip all of Makeb I do, gladly.

It is interesting indeed, you are very right in that. Let me explain about about Makeb though. I do like the story as such. What I do not like is that a number of the quests have a lot of mobs to kill and it feels like a drag. So I do not enjoy that either. Let's be clear on that

 

My personal feeling is that the Makeb story line was the planetary story arc and that originally more class stories were planned. When they almost had the game die on them in the first year, they had to bring out the expansion more quickly. So they dropped the class quests. Now they changed it now but at the time the amount of xp for the Makeb story quests was insane and I think they just did that to cover the gap left by not having the class stories and just added a lot of mob killing to the quests as filler to make the story last longer. This is just my view based on how I experienced Makeb. But I did enjoy the story as such. Nowadays I've found ways to cut through the mobs much more efficiently so I can skip a lot of that. And I do agree that it takes that to make the story fun again for me.

 

I also think Lana and Therons involvement in SoR is why I love it so much. I also always do Ziost and of course done Kotfe/Kotet plenty of times and have other chars in various stages of making their way through it now.

Yeah, I don't like either of them. The whole cast of new companions with Lana, Theron, Koth, Senya etc. just don't resonate with me. I just want my old companions back.

 

I always loved the story mode flashpoints (particularly the ones that have someone talking to you over coms, it feels real) and was always dissapointed operations and uprisings did not have the same solo mode options. Part of what I love about Kotfe and Kotet was the fact that in addition to getting a ton of story there was also solo mode battles that felt flashpoint epic like along the way. I cant say how much I adore Voss in Kotet for its flashpoint/ epic war battle feel, there arent enough words. I loved it. I love when they are done like this because of the party / companion banter along the way that just enhances the story experience for me.

I used to like flash points back when they didn't have solo mode a lot better. It was more rewarding back then to do them as well and were part of the natural progression. Solo mode has some advantages but they also are more bland to me because of them. What really turned me off with SoR is that they are forced on you as part of the story and they are simply too long. I don't enjoy being away from the open world that long myself as it's still an MMO for me.

 

I don't care much for some sequences in the Voss mission because I hate how they did the walker controls. They are clunky and I'm not playing my character anymore. What I liked was the chapter on DK with Acina. My biggest gripe of the whole thing is that I couldn't have her as a permanent companion.

 

Would I have been happy for this next installment of the Kotor era to have been a single player rpg? Hell yes, but it wasn't so this is what we get - in a way thats okay to me too because we've been getting more story then we would have if it was sp with a few dlcs.

To be honest, I think that was one of the biggest mistakes at the foundation of this game. It should have never been the continuation of the Kotor stories. Nobody wins like that. But that aside KotFE and KotET do not feel like Star Wars to me and that's the biggest problem that also makes me more unforgiving.

 

I remember when I started playing some of those chapters the first time my wife glanced over and said: huh, are you playing Mass Effect? I thought you were playing SWTOR....

 

I was playing SWTOR.

 

To be honest they've borrowed a lot of Mass Effect but in KotFE and KotET it's gotten much worse. I like both but I want SWTOR to be Star Wars and Mass Effect to be Mass Effect.

 

But ok, I have a question for you if I may. KotET to me was Valkorion basically being more elaborate about pulling the same stunt Zash tried to pull on my inquisitors in chapter I of the original story. Does it not bother you that in the end Valkorion's plan for our character was nothing more than what a Sith Lord already tried so many years ago, except with fewer fireworks and drama?

Edited August 13, 2017 by Tsillah

[Suzsi]

It is interesting indeed, you are very right in that. Let me explain about about Makeb though. I do like the story as such. What I do not like is that a number of the quests have a lot of mobs to kill and it feels like a drag. So I do not enjoy that either. Let's be clear on that

 

My personal feeling is that the Makeb story line was the planetary story arc and that originally more class stories were planned. When they almost had the game die on them in the first year, they had to bring out the expansion more quickly. So they dropped the class quests. Now they changed it now but at the time the amount of xp for the Makeb story quests was insane and I think they just did that to cover the gap left by not having the class stories and just added a lot of mob killing to the quests as filler to make the story last longer. This is just my view based on how I experienced Makeb. But I did enjoy the story as such. Nowadays I've found ways to cut through the mobs much more efficiently so I can skip a lot of that. And I do agree that it takes that to make the story fun again for me.

 

 

Yeah, I don't like either of them. The whole cast of new companions with Lana, Theron, Koth, Senya etc. just don't resonate with me. I just want my old companions back.

 

 

I used to like flash points back when they didn't have solo mode a lot better. It was more rewarding back then to do them as well and were part of the natural progression. Solo mode has some advantages but they also are more bland to me because of them. What really turned me off with SoR is that they are forced on you as part of the story and they are simply too long. I don't enjoy being away from the open world that long myself as it's still an MMO for me.

 

I don't care much for some sequences in the Voss mission because I hate how they did the walker controls. They are clunky and I'm not playing my character anymore. What I liked was the chapter on DK with Acina. My biggest gripe of the whole thing is that I couldn't have her as a permanent companion.

 

 

To be honest, I think that was one of the biggest mistakes at the foundation of this game. It should have never been the continuation of the Kotor stories. Nobody wins like that. But that aside KotFE and KotET do not feel like Star Wars to me and that's the biggest problem that also makes me more unforgiving.

 

I remember when I started playing some of those chapters the first time my wife glanced over and said: huh, are you playing Mass Effect? I thought you were playing SWTOR....

 

I was playing SWTOR.

 

To be honest they've borrowed a lot of Mass Effect but in KotFE and KotET it's gotten much worse. I like both but I want SWTOR to be Star Wars and Mass Effect to be Mass Effect.

 

But ok, I have a question for you if I may. KotET to me was Valkorion basically being more elaborate about pulling the same stunt Zash tried to pull on my inquisitors in chapter I of the original story. Does it not bother you that in the end Valkorion's plan for our character was nothing more than what a Sith Lord already tried so many years ago, except with fewer fireworks and drama?

 

Valkorian was the Sith emporer back in the day. I think I would have been more dissappointed if it wasn't some elaborate plan of his to take over. I like how manipulative he was, I will admit there was a couple of times on my LS JK that I was tempted to accept his power for one reason or another. There was also times when his words were twisted enough that I wasn't sure what the real lightside choice was etc. Same with Mar and Satele, I wasn't sure if I should listen to them or be scared of them!

 

[Edit] just thinking about all of this even further- i cant say ive ever gotten a mass effect feel from swtor at all. What I have gotten is a very SW EU vibe from the SW books. Super weapons, massive godlike machines etc etc.. all of those kinds of stories are things like what you would find in the books. I recall some kind of super weapon that child Ahni was exploring and communing with.. been a long while since i read it but i think ot was on one of the corellia moons. All these ancient machines and tech and stuff was always part of what I loved about the books (I love sci fi worlds with tonnes of ancient history ). The Esk-ra on the prison planet also ine of my fav areas of the original story. Ancient super tech is very SW EU if anything, mass effect stole it from SW.

 

Also the whole Sith lords in your head thing also comes from the books, its all over sw eu, one of the things they do often to try and turn Jedi dark.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Suzsi

[Deewe]

But honestly anyone who thought they could keep that many different stories running and think they can go back to doing that now is not considering just how much would be involved in doing that and need to look beyond it to the best of what is possible, not what never will be and was never going to be.

They could just have focused on like 1 Imp and eventually one 1 Pub class story at a time.

 

While it would have disappointed some players, we would have had much better and fitting class story.

It would also have improved making players switch factions and classes.

[Foambreaker]

We did read the whole thread and remember we didn't offer that as an option as progression is still part of PvP. Moving Bolster to 250 virtually eliminates the need to get gear and reduces the value for those who have earned Tier 4 pieces.

 

The right answer is we need to resolve the PvP gearing issues, so Bolster gets removed as a central issue.

 

Keith---

 

I call horsehockey.

 

You took PvP progression out of the game when you removed expertise gear.

 

You are allowing the people who complete PvE Progression to have an gear advantage over PvPers.

 

Are you an orphan? Didn't your collective parents teach you the first thing about fairplay?

Edited August 13, 2017 by Foambreaker

[ivanhedgehog]

It was a good move because it kept those players around and bought players like me back who quit back then when the story content repeat ability was a massive unwanted grind.

 

Theyve just had another exodus after Kotet was finished with no promises of new story and even more after Quinn'/Elerias return was poorly handled and that whole story piece was 10 mins of story and a ton of useless grinding for side quests. So going back to my original point, turning the focus away from story now, at this point in the game was a mistake. Those players around for Kotfe and Kotet would still be here if they kept working the story but they didn't .. so oops all those guys dissappeared. As you said, the majority of those who were left (and some like me who came back) - story driven. So it makes no sense to shift away from the story now.

 

How many of those who left were because of dps nerfs to enable the recycling once again of old content?

[ivanhedgehog]

I call horsehockey.

 

You took PvP progression out of the game when you removed expertise gear.

 

You are allowing the people who complete PvE Progression to have an gear advantage over PvPers.

 

Are you an orphan? Didn't your collective parents teach you the first thing about fairplay?

 

Is a pvper that goes over to pve ops to get unassembleds and then goes back to pvp to grind uc's to get his 284's really a pve'er? or are they a pvper that used a shortcut? Shouldnt someone that does BOTH endgames, pve and pvp gear faster than someone that does just one? Wouldnt that be fair? It isnt like a pve'er can just do a few warzones to upgrade their equipment. BW wants to keep people busy as much as possible for as long as possible. That would be why they did it this way.

[Toraak]

Even Bioware doesn't do it now.

 

KofFE/ET was, story wise, merely a very poor parody of the story writing that went into class stories.

 

All The Best

 

It is a matter of opinion, but from all those I talk to, both kotfe, and kotet stories were considered far WORSE then the original class stories.

[Icykill_]

It is a matter of opinion, but from all those I talk to, both kotfe, and kotet stories were considered far WORSE then the original class stories.

 

The original class stories are still the best in the game

[Suzsi]

I am not even sure what people expect from stories anymore.. I am sure bioware doesn't either by now.

 

They do one thing, and people whinge its a copy from something else. They do another thing, that was popular back in their previous games and they are just 'rehasing old stuff'.

 

I'd like to see people come up with a story that is nothing like any other story and see how they go, because with so many around I would say its nearly impossible.

 

Sometimes there's a lot to be said for new spins on 'sorta similiar' to something else stories and the like. Especially when it fits the context of whats taking place at the time (like the Vette vrs Torian choice, always hsrd for me as I like both chars but realistic for war as you cant always save 'em all). Killing a char off at all has 'been done before'. Yet no one ever dying negates war being war. The thing with Scorpio, again, betrayals been done 100000 times over and then some in stories, never in the exact same way with the exact same chars etc.

 

The more stories put out there, the more things will overlap. Even SW movies are one big overlaping cycle with the force trying to keep balance and such.

 

Just because one story isnt as good as another, it doesn't make it a 'bad' story, just a different one. I fear peoples expectations are forever increasing and no one can ever hope to keep up with them.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Suzsi

[Eshvara]

Just because one story isnt as good as another, it doesn't make it a 'bad' story, just a different one. I fear peoples expectations are forever increasing and no one can ever hope to keep up with them.

 

I agree with the expectations part. People today are still dense enough to think full class stories as they were need to come back or should.

And typically if it isn't that, it's never good enough!

[Transcendent]

They could just have focused on like 1 Imp and eventually one 1 Pub class story at a time.

 

I'd much rather have seen this over the two year period.

 

Year One

- First 6 months Jedi Knight / Sith Warrior Class story chapters.

- Inclusion of PvE group content (Operation / Flashpoints / Events / Strongholds / Dailies released)

- Second 6 Months Jedi Consular / Sith Inquisitor Class story chapters.

- Class Balance changes.

- Inclusion of PvP group content (PvP maps / GSF maps / New PvP game-modes for both / defined ranked seasons and rewards)

 

Year Two

- First 6 months Imperial Agent / Smuggler Class story chapters.

- Inclusion of PvE group content (Operation / Flashpoints / Events / Strongholds / Dailies released)

- Second 6 months Bounty Hunter / Trooper Class story chapters.

- Class Balance changes.

- Inclusion of PvP group content (PvP maps / GSF maps / New PvP game-modes for both / defined ranked seasons and rewards)

 

I mean, I probably would have stayed subscribed if they had gone down that route, specific class stories in the flavour of the vanilla class stories which doesn't have to even be the same storyline for all the class, just shared for the mirror classes. Proper PvE group content, 6 months later the class balance passes and PvP content alongside some more class story chapters.

 

I'd much rather BioWare worked to something along those lines, instead of what we were given for KotFE / KotET. I think there is a perception that we have to have ALL the class specific stories released all in one hit at BioWare, I'd settle for a two yearly cycle in that regard, it also means the story can branch into different areas more specific to each type of class as well as perhaps being much more Imperial vs Republic.

[Ylliarus]

I'd much rather have seen this over the two year period.

 

Year One

- First 6 months Jedi Knight / Sith Warrior Class story chapters.

- Inclusion of PvE group content (Operation / Flashpoints / Events / Strongholds / Dailies released)

- Second 6 Months Jedi Consular / Sith Inquisitor Class story chapters.

- Class Balance changes.

- Inclusion of PvP group content (PvP maps / GSF maps / New PvP game-modes for both / defined ranked seasons and rewards)

 

Year Two

- First 6 months Imperial Agent / Smuggler Class story chapters.

- Inclusion of PvE group content (Operation / Flashpoints / Events / Strongholds / Dailies released)

- Second 6 months Bounty Hunter / Trooper Class story chapters.

- Class Balance changes.

- Inclusion of PvP group content (PvP maps / GSF maps / New PvP game-modes for both / defined ranked seasons and rewards)

 

I mean, I probably would have stayed subscribed if they had gone down that route, specific class stories in the flavour of the vanilla class stories which doesn't have to even be the same storyline for all the class, just shared for the mirror classes. Proper PvE group content, 6 months later the class balance passes and PvP content alongside some more class story chapters.

 

I'd much rather BioWare worked to something along those lines, instead of what we were given for KotFE / KotET. I think there is a perception that we have to have ALL the class specific stories released all in one hit at BioWare, I'd settle for a two yearly cycle in that regard, it also means the story can branch into different areas more specific to each type of class as well as perhaps being much more Imperial vs Republic.

 

How can we vouch for Bioware to accept you as part of the dev team? How this would have been the perfect approach to the story and new content of this game, oh how I wish the dev team had taken this route when deciding how to move forward...

 

On another note, I would very much suggest for both the dev and story team to continue returning more and more to the Republic vs Empire. That should have always been the conflict that was focused upon as it is simply the very core of this game (and I fear it was forgotten somewhere along the way). I really hope that we'll be able to leave the Eternal Alliance behind and return to our original factions, as in all bland honesty I hate everything about the Alliance. I hate that I have to be at the head of it because I preferred the "being part of the top but not the top of the top"-approach of the ending of the class stories of the original game, I hate I am being referred to as a bland "Commander" on every, single, without exception character despite the fact they're different classes and factions (one is a Darth, the other a Jedi Master, another Bar'senthor but all of it is being ignored, bah!), I hate the complete breach of lore that is the cooperation between Empire and Republic because it ignores all the lore of the Great Hyperspace War, the Sith genocide and Sith Exodus (the only acceptable approach to a Imperial-Republic collaboration was in SoR with the joint coalition on Yavin, temporary and tense, very tense), I hate that the Eternal Alliance has come to rule the galaxy that is the worst place you can be in with a story that is constantly continuing (it's putting yourself in a strangehold narrative wise), I hate the name of it "Eternal Alliance" it sounds so horrendous to me (it could have been more original like "Alliance of the United Stars", "United Star Kingdom", "United Systems of Odessen", "Alliance of Odessen" but now the Commander seems like a copycat) but most of all I hate the overpowered and godmode Eternal Fleet that is at our disposition. End of rant.

 

Don't get me wrong, the main narrative of KotFE and KotET was good, I have loved, love and will forever love Valkorion and his story was very nicely written. But that's the problem, KotFE and KotET were his and his family's stories. They weren't my stories in the sense that they were about my character, which was the case with the original class stories of the game. Don't get me wrong I love it when other protagonists but more importantly antagonists around me get lots or screen time and development, but those are the key words "around me". My character should be at the center of the story not a spectator standing in the center of a narrative, there is a difference between the two.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Ylliarus

[docbenwayddo]

...

Just because one story isnt as good as another, it doesn't make it a 'bad' story, just a different one. I fear peoples expectations are forever increasing and no one can ever hope to keep up with them.

 

In my own personal experience, this has been a multi year exercise in diminished expectations and no how matter how low I set the bar based on past delivery, they manage to be disappoint me anyway.

I will admit to having been surprised and and my expectations surpassed only when it comes to proving my failure of imagination when I try to think of the worst possible way something could be implemented though. They always come up with something even worse than I thought possible. heh.

Edited August 14, 2017 by docbenwayddo

[Ylliarus]

In my own personal experience, this has been a multi year exercise in diminished expectations and no how matter how low I set the bar based on past delivery, they manage to be disappoint me anyway.

I will admit to having been surprised and and my expectations surpassed only when it comes to proving my failure of imagination when I try to think of the worst possible way something could be implemented though. They always come up with something even worse than I thought possible. heh.

 

The issue that Bioware is failing a bit to see is that they try too hard to implement something new, trying to be revolutionary and "never before seen!". The thing is, that's not necessary to be succesful. This is Star Wars, when people come to play this game they want to assume the role of a Jedi or Sith and immerse themselves in the epic battle of Republic vs Empire, Jedi vs Sith, Light vs Dark. What happens however when they start playing the most recent content? That entire feeling which is the core of this game dissipates instantly. Bioware doesn't have to try to do something revolutionarily new, they just have to do what they're good at which is creating captivating Republic vs Empire, Jedi vs Sith narratives and stories. The original game before any expansion hit was what made the game a big success, it was what had attracted so many players and subscribers. Yet ever since they started walking off that path, trying too hard to think of something new and never before seen things have gone awry.

Yes, I am sure that KotFE was the most successful expansion to date and that they base their current path for the game on that. But it's time to acknowledge that maybe indeed that expansion was the most successful to date, but did that success persist? Did it result in a bursting amount of new players and subscribers in the long run? It didn't, because people were promised a return to the game's roots with KotFE and that was sadly a lie. Yes, we returned to more story oriented content which I will never mind, but the story was taken down a path that did not feel Star Wars at all but more like an entirely different sci-fi universe and game. The Eternal Empire and the entire story surrounding Valkorion and his family would have been a perfect narrative in a different universe and game than Star Wars The Old Republic. Perhaps Zakuul wouldn't have felt so out of place in the SWTOR universe if it was a third faction that had risen to challenge the Sith Empire and Republic, but never to completely wreck and dominate it like it had in the story. It would have been the perfect opportunity to add the highly requested new class, namely a Knight of Zakuul with its own story in a third faction we could pick from the start of a new character. Had the narrative been handled in that manner I think the Eternal Empire could have been made to fit the Star Wars universe because our characters would be able to stay with their original factions. Instead we were put in an abominable alliance that to makes no sense and I hate it quite passionately because it completely doesn't fit in the Star Wars universe and lore as well.

 

Like the quoted post, I believe that has dissapointed many people as well, that the story was said to be a return to the roots of SWTOR yet instead we got something completely different, alien and even out of place with what we had before.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Ylliarus