Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[bvalley]

That's your opinion.

 

Here's the opinion of Arenajunkies (The home of PvPers in WoW)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those posts are consecutive. No one is arguing the other side there because there isn't a logical leg to stand on. Now before you go ahead and dismiss these people for either being PvPers or WoW players, realize that this is a key market that Bioware is trying to take from WoW.

 

Maybe I need to stay off these forums and read from the website your referencing... I can't stand another minute reading another post from a biodrone.

[alphalegend]

remember what the dev said on his post, don't disrespect on the thread. Regardless of whatever point you want to make, dont act immature about it.

[oblongship]

Posting in support of OP.

[lenonk]

For the record, as I posted WAY back on page 47, I have one machine on which I experience this issue, and another, which has far more recent hardware, on which I do not.

 

So, yeah, hardware does have something to do with it. As I said previously, it could be a driver incompatibility, or God knows what, but the proof is in the pudding.

 

As myself and other people have stated, it may simply be that any hardware other than the most bleeding edge stuff exacerbates an existing issue.

[Olzmo]

For the record, as I posted WAY back on page 47, I have one machine on which I experience this issue, and another, which has far more recent hardware, on which I do not.

 

So, yeah, hardware does have something to do with it. As I said previously, it could be a driver incompatibility, or God knows what, but the proof is in the pudding.

 

As myself and other people have stated, it may simply be that any hardware other than the most bleeding edge stuff exacerbates an existing issue.

Mind posting the specs of these two comps?

[lenonk]

Mind posting the specs of these two comps?

 

Already did, look back at page 47.

[freakuancy]

 

Do I know you? I'm trying to prevent other people from wasting their time trying to hunt down a problem on their computer when this is a well known issue that comes from the game. Didn't know that was such a horrible offense.

 

 

 

You're accusing someone of spreading misinformation who is simply doing what IT does -- break down the ridiculous, remove each possibility until you're left with only one.

 

The problem is, you guys are the ones spreading misinformation claiming its not a latency issue. Calling me a child when I clearly point out the reasons -why- its a latency issue. I understand that your perception of the problem may differ but it's just a perception, and an incorrect one.

 

I even went so far as to defend the validity of the issue and still got slapped by this absurd horde thats frothing at the mouth here.

 

You guys have no idea what you're talking about, and I don't care if that sounds insulting. I tried to be nice about it and explain, and now I'm done. Nothing will ever be accomplished as long as this community tries to armchair dev and refuses to listen to anyone else who might actually know a bit more than HOW 2 SENDKEYZ WITH VEEBEE.

 

Just cancel your subs already.

[Tinkersw]

You're accusing someone of spreading misinformation who is simply doing what IT does -- break down the ridiculous, remove each possibility until you're left with only one.

 

The problem is, you guys are the ones spreading misinformation claiming its not a latency issue. Calling me a child when I clearly point out the reasons -why- its a latency issue. I understand that your perception of the problem may differ but it's just a perception, and an incorrect one.

 

I even went so far as to defend the validity of the issue and still got slapped by this absurd horde thats frothing at the mouth here.

 

You guys have no idea what you're talking about, and I don't care if that sounds insulting. I tried to be nice about it and explain, and now I'm done. Nothing will ever be accomplished as long as this community tries to armchair dev and refuses to listen to anyone else who might actually know a bit more than HOW 2 SENDKEYZ WITH VEEBEE.

 

Just cancel your subs already.

 

Hey Freak ....I get you!! ...

[Contumelious]

You're accusing someone of spreading misinformation who is simply doing what IT does -- break down the ridiculous, remove each possibility until you're left with only one.

 

The problem is, you guys are the ones spreading misinformation claiming its not a latency issue. Calling me a child when I clearly point out the reasons -why- its a latency issue. I understand that your perception of the problem may differ but it's just a perception, and an incorrect one.

 

I even went so far as to defend the validity of the issue and still got slapped by this absurd horde thats frothing at the mouth here.

 

You guys have no idea what you're talking about, and I don't care if that sounds insulting. I tried to be nice about it and explain, and now I'm done. Nothing will ever be accomplished as long as this community tries to armchair dev and refuses to listen to anyone else who might actually know a bit more than HOW 2 SENDKEYZ WITH VEEBEE.

 

Just cancel your subs already.

 

I don't know what to tell, other than the fact that the issue does not stem from latency.

 

Latency(or "lag") caused by bad computer specs or bad connection may make the problem worse, but it is not the direct cause of the problem.

 

You are talking out of your ***, and you are being very hostile about it. You are clueless and ignorant.

 

You are telling us to go cancel our subs, when the fact of the matter is that most people complaining like this game just as much as you, and do not want to see it fail - that, you know, is why we're posting here.

[Paganini]

You're accusing someone of spreading misinformation who is simply doing what IT does -- break down the ridiculous, remove each possibility until you're left with only one.

 

The problem is, you guys are the ones spreading misinformation claiming its not a latency issue. Calling me a child when I clearly point out the reasons -why- its a latency issue. I understand that your perception of the problem may differ but it's just a perception, and an incorrect one.

 

I even went so far as to defend the validity of the issue and still got slapped by this absurd horde thats frothing at the mouth here.

 

You guys have no idea what you're talking about, and I don't care if that sounds insulting. I tried to be nice about it and explain, and now I'm done. Nothing will ever be accomplished as long as this community tries to armchair dev and refuses to listen to anyone else who might actually know a bit more than HOW 2 SENDKEYZ WITH VEEBEE.

 

Just cancel your subs already.

 

 

This isn't a latency issue. Read the OP. Then go ahead and reread the OP since you clearly lack the reading comprehension of most people.

[Zethix]

I support the OP. In addition I've also noticed parry/block animations seeming to delay the use of abilities.

[Xcore]

Thank you to you and others that have filled in for Xcore!

I sure hope we havent lost him to all these trolls!!

 

Nope, I'm still here and I have read every post I'm this thread as well. I would encourage people to get back to discussing the actual issues as in yhe first thread and stop attacks. Also, I would encourage ignoring the more obvious trolls.

 

I am leaving work in about 30min, in about 1 hour I will post my thoughts spanning the entire subject and a special message to Bioware.

 

Thanks Tinker

[sfryman]

I remember when warhammer came out I noticed a similar issue with ability lag right away. This eventually drove me from the game. Then I tried rift, and the same story played itself out once again. It was eerie.

 

Almost as frustrating was the people who would insist that there wasn't a problem, it was just me or my machine. Of course, it wasn't just me. Eventually the devs acknowledged the problem and they were able to improve it, but never reached the level of swtor currently, let alone wow.

 

I think the reason for a lot of the doomsaying, long posts, videos and sometimes emo threads is from gamers, like me, who have seen this before and are afraid this game will meet the same fate. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Edited December 28, 2011 by sfryman

[lenonk]

This isn't a latency issue. Read the OP. Then go ahead and reread the OP since you clearly lack the reading comprehension of most people.

 

 

I think maybe we're dealing with two different issues here. One that is, in fact, caused by latency, and one that is not. When the animation for Force Lightning doesn't start channeling until the cast bar is halfway finished, that's potentially caused by latency.

 

When the animation for tossing your grenade doesn't start until after the animation for Charged Bolt is finished, that's not. However, it is made far worse if you have the aforementioned issue with latency and the animation for Charged Bolt is late.

 

This could explain why I don't really notice the issue on my new laptop.

[freakuancy]

I don't know what to tell, other than the fact that the issue does not stem from latency.

 

Latency(or "lag") caused by bad computer specs or bad connection may make the problem worse, but it is not the direct cause of the problem.

 

You are talking out of your ***, and you are being very hostile about it. You are clueless and ignorant.

 

You are telling us to go cancel our subs, when the fact of the matter is that most people complaining like this game just as much as you, and do not want to see it fail - that, you know, is why we're posting here.

 

Really? Pull up API spy and watch. There's a call to the network stack every time you trigger an ability, that is returned from the server side before the ability 'fires' on your client. Server response can be seen in netop, etc.

 

If there is a latency, said ability does not 'fire' on the client until the server response is in, resulting in an ability delay.

 

There is always latency, hence there is always a delay. It is bad design, granted, but its an attempt to avoid the "things will lag until the server catches up then everything happens at once" problem.

 

Nice try, you lose.

[Evenios]

i have had little problems with responsiveness so far (other then some times when it was a lag issue due to my connection) the combat feels fact and active and i dont see what the major gripes are.

[Digitalpossum]

Now, that being said, the machine that I experienced these issues on was a laptop running a Core2 Duo T7500, with 6GB of ram, and a Geforce 8800 GTX. It's a bit dated, though in my opinion it should be able to handle SW:TOR easily on the lowest settings. It did run between 30 and 40 FPS in all but the most crowded areas.

 

Still, I decided to give myself a new laptop for Christmas, so I ordered a Sager NP8170 with an i7 2670QM, 8GB of DDR3/1333, and an AMD Radeon HD 6990M. Here's the part you don't want to hear, the problems went away. The UI lag, the looting lag, the animations being out of sync, all of it. I have not yet tried to recreate the video with the smuggler using Charged Burst and throwing the grenade, but I will definitely try it and see what happens.

 

I will be performing a very similar test myself this evening. I've been running on a 4 year old PC with a dual core AMD processor, 4GB of RAM and a 8800GT OC with 512 MB video RAM. It's served me well for years. My new computer arrived this afternoon. It has a 2600K processor, 8 GB of RAM and dual 6850s with a total of 2GB video RAM. So I guess I'll get to see if my experience mirrors yours, or if I still have the problem.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Digitalpossum

[bvalley]

i have had little problems with responsiveness so far (other then some times when it was a lag issue due to my connection) the combat feels fact and active and i dont see what the major gripes are.

 

Its because you were one of the people that did wrath damage in cata end level content. You don't have the ability to see or grasp the issue because you are horrid at video games.

[lenonk]

Really? Pull up API spy and watch. There's a call to the network stack every time you trigger an ability, that is returned from the server side before the ability 'fires' on your client. Server response can be seen in netop, etc.

 

If there is a latency, said ability does not 'fire' on the client until the server response is in, resulting in an ability delay.

 

There is always latency, hence there is always a delay. It is bad design, granted, but its an attempt to avoid the "things will lag until the server catches up then everything happens at once" problem.

 

Nice try, you lose.

 

But dude, this is only PART of the problem people are complaining about, and yes, it's due to latency. The issue pointed out by the OP is that if you character is in the middle of an animation, ANY animation, you literally cannot effect another ability until the animation for the current ability is done. This is NOT latency.

 

As I just said, it's two issues.

[GrandPielord]

If you guys are having abilities jam up when you press the keybindings too fast, go into controls an change ability action Q to 0 or 1 and that will fix that problem

[Contumelious]

But dude, this is only PART of the problem people are complaining about, and yes, it's due to latency. The issue pointed out by the OP is that if you character is in the middle of an animation, ANY animation, you literally cannot effect another ability until the animation for the current ability is done. This is NOT latency.

 

As I just said, it's two issues.

 

I don't know how many times this has been reiterated already.

 

Either stop trolling or learn to read, freakazoid.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Contumelious

[Xenofell]

Really? Pull up API spy and watch. There's a call to the network stack every time you trigger an ability, that is returned from the server side before the ability 'fires' on your client. Server response can be seen in netop, etc.

 

If there is a latency, said ability does not 'fire' on the client until the server response is in, resulting in an ability delay.

 

But this isn't what people are complaining about. A small, insignificant delay is hardly the matter. The issue lies with the animation system -- it won't start one ability until the animation for the previous one has been played in its entirety. You should probably start by reading the OP.

 

 

Translation of the OP:

 

Dear Bioware,

 

Whatever are we supposed to do in that extra 0.5 seconds as the attack animations play out? Are we supposed to think? Or get ready to do something else? We don't understand. We play WoW and in that game you don't have to think. You just mash buttons real fast, which we like. Please remove this "extra time for our brains to do something in" from the game, or we will leave your game and take all our friends with us. Just the other day Billy was telling me how hard pvp in swtor is. He is 4 though, so I didn't understand him (since I'm only 3, but soon will be 4 too) at first. But when I tried to use my Cover move in pvp, it showed my toon rolling for cover. What a waste of time! I actually started thinking of something else during that 0.5 seconds and it threw me off. I have a headache now. Thanks Bioware. Boy will you be mad when we delete our characters!

 

Signed,

 

Legolas Skywalker

and

Arthas Vader

 

A++ troll would read again.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Xenofell

[Sephendrine]

Translation of the OP:

 

Dear Bioware,

 

Whatever are we supposed to do in that extra 0.5 seconds as the attack animations play out? Are we supposed to think? Or get ready to do something else? We don't understand. We play WoW and in that game you don't have to think. You just mash buttons real fast, which we like. Please remove this "extra time for our brains to do something in" from the game, or we will leave your game and take all our friends with us. Just the other day Billy was telling me how hard pvp in swtor is. He is 4 though, so I didn't understand him (since I'm only 3, but soon will be 4 too) at first. But when I tried to use my Cover move in pvp, it showed my toon rolling for cover. What a waste of time! I actually started thinking of something else during that 0.5 seconds and it threw me off. I have a headache now. Thanks Bioware. Boy will you be mad when we delete our characters!

 

Signed,

 

Legolas Skywalker

and

Arthas Vader

[lenonk]

I will be performing a very similar test myself this evening. I've been running on a 4 year old PC with a dual core AMD processor, 4GB of RAM and a 8800GT OC with 512 MB video RAM. It's served me well for years. My new computer arrived this afternoon. It has a 2600K processor, 8 GB of RAM and dual 6850s with a total of 2GB video. So I guess I'll get to see if my experience mirrors yours, or if I still have the problem.

 

Be sure to let us know your results.

[Paganini]

I think maybe we're dealing with two different issues here. One that is, in fact, caused by latency, and one that is not. When the animation for Force Lightning doesn't start channeling until the cast bar is halfway finished, that's potentially caused by latency.

 

When the animation for tossing your grenade doesn't start until after the animation for Charged Bolt is finished, that's not. However, it is made far worse if you have the aforementioned issue with latency and the animation for Charged Bolt is late.

 

This could explain why I don't really notice the issue on my new laptop.

 

 

This is accurate.