Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Zerbruz]

Totally agree, responsiveness has to be fixed! I would rather see this fixed than rushing out more content, make this a priority BioWare, please! Edited December 28, 2011 by Zerbruz

[Isende]

It's not even viable in casual group play. With you and your companion doing your story quest sure, it's doable and even enjoyable. I will just give one example of how prioritizing animations over character control is a bad thing.

We have a group in a flashpoint where the mobs including the bosses do what's called random agro. The tank (me) has some trash mobs and the boss tanked for the moment. The dps are doin what they do best, slaughter things, the healer is healing and all is well in a galaxy far far away. And then....The boss decides it wants to rip the healers face off, why? Who knows, maybe he doesn't like your pretty yellow dress, uhmm robe I meant robe. Remember these mobs do what's called random agro... The tank (me) is still tanking the trash mobs and as luck would have it is in the middle of a parry animation as the boss descends with a wicked gleam in his eye on our beloved robe wearing healer. Now because I'm in the middle of a game induced parry animation,when I taunt the boss calling him names using the most colorful of four letter words, it doesn'tt work. Well why the heck not you ask? Because animations overide character input , that's why. So, my gcd gets used but the taunt doesn't work. Since the gcd is used I now can't even jump to boss to try and save my robe wearing friend. The healer takes a pummeling tries to run off, kite, get away...anything to shake this boss and it aint happeneing. Healer dies.....I am dependant upon my healer to a certain degree as is the healer dependant upon me as is the entire group and vice versa. I failed my healer and my group because the game dictated I can do nothing while in a parry animation, BUT at the same time used the ability and the gcd even though it didn't fire. You see, there are times when you must have absolute control over your toon. Things can go south and that's when you need a responsive combat system. This is only one of the many many many reasons animations over gameplay is a bad idea. Others can cite other examples or ways in which the animations are causing issues. No, this isn't happening to everyone, no this doesn't happen all the time. It is only certain skills at certain times but is detrimental to gameplay and has already caused a group wipe once or twice. Now I love this game. I'm not going to quit. But I along with many others beg bioware to fix this in some manner.

 

THANK you! i posted something VERY similar to this regarding both my healer AND my tank -- but folk don't get it, they think it's just "flame on."

 

THIS is a problem. THIS deserves a response. this thread is an attempt to say, PLEASE RECOGNIZE AND RESPOND TO THE PROBLEM.

[Xzenorath]

Um ok so other than saying "we talked about it internally" I don't know what they're doing, what the REAL problem is and WHEN it is going to get fixed.

 

See when my internet speed is half of what it needs to be, I call up my ISP and ask them whats going on and when its going to be fixed. They tell me there is an outage in my area and they shoul have everything back to normal in 2-3 hours. That is CUSTOMER SERVICE. I don't even understand why I would pay $15/mo and have no clue as to what is going on.

 

Sorry but customer is ALWAYS right. Learn it now.

 

lol...

 

Okay buddy.

[Jeskimo]

I can't believe there are people actually defending this system! Don't get me wrong.. I actually really enjoy the combat.. but the input lag (when more than 4 people are on the screen .. aka pvp) is a huge deal.. like it or not.

 

I should not have to wait 2-3 seconds for a mob to realize I taunted it - that's gamebreaking as a tank. I tried healing in beta for one flashpoint and resepecced immediately because the system was too clunky and there's no way I'd have fun with that. I play to have fun - not be frustrated by the game mechanics just because I love star wars or bioware to the point of insanity like some people.

 

I think I saw someone saying something about interrupting animations being unrealistic?! So I guess if a jedi was about to pull off a spinning jump followed by lightsaber flourish.. but in the middle of that he noticed he needed to pommel strike instead... he'd just say "sorry mr sith lord can you wait to attack me with your next move until i'm done with this one, as I can't stop it once it's started".

 

Yeah...

[Paganini]

Wow, jeez, does that sound exactly like something I posted 20 minutes ago.

 

Let us all be surprised now. rofl

 

Do you not realize it's now at the top of their priority list because the community is making a big deal out of it? You don't think they notice something that shoots to the top of the reddit ama?

[Spetsnazos]

It's quite simply, that the OP is factually correct. WoW's succ

 

Actually Rift has way better responsiveness. EQ2 has better responsiveness than TOR and so does EQ1.

 

There is no excuse for this in 2012.

[Khoranth]

Yeah, actually, that's exactly what you're asking for. You're asking for everything to fire off properly every time you use it.

 

It's been 8 days homie, stop thinking the combat will be just like this in a year from now, it won't be.

 

Warhammer had the worst UI lag ever and buggiest GCD, it's actually really smooth now.

 

and how many people who quit warhammer in the 1st 3 months came back a year or two later?

[sdream]

Do you not realize it's now at the top of their priority list because the community is making a big deal out of it? You don't think they notice something that shoots to the top of the reddit ama?

 

Don't feed him. He's already too fat.

[Dizzyjd]

Um ok so other than saying "we talked about it internally" I don't know what they're doing, what the REAL problem is and WHEN it is going to get fixed.

 

See when my internet speed is half of what it needs to be, I call up my ISP and ask them whats going on and when its going to be fixed. They tell me there is an outage in my area and they shoul have everything back to normal in 2-3 hours. That is CUSTOMER SERVICE. I don't even understand why I would pay $15/mo and have no clue as to what is going on.

 

Sorry but customer is ALWAYS right. Learn it now.

 

I was wrong....it took 3 minutes for someone to complain about a timeline once bw acknowledge they were working on it not an hour....gg

[Yukondoit]

Um ok so other than saying "we talked about it internally" I don't know what they're doing, what the REAL problem is and WHEN it is going to get fixed.

 

See when my internet speed is half of what it needs to be, I call up my ISP and ask them whats going on and when its going to be fixed. They tell me there is an outage in my area and they shoul have everything back to normal in 2-3 hours. That is CUSTOMER SERVICE. I don't even understand why I would pay $15/mo and have no clue as to what is going on.

 

Sorry but customer is ALWAYS right. Learn it now.

 

As a business owner, and as evinced by these forums, the customer is NOT always right. Mr. Reid also said that they will be talking about this publicly very soon. So you'll get your answers if you develop some patience.

 

Your instant gratification/entitlement mindset is humorous.

[Xzenorath]

Do you not realize it's now at the top of their priority list because the community is making a big deal out of it? You don't think they notice something that shoots to the top of the reddit ama?

 

It's not "at the top of their list" because you made a giant thread.

 

He said that they're already discussing it internally. Which is EXACTLY what I've been saying all along, they're not idiots, they realize there's issues and when you complain this much about it, they actually bother to let you know they're working on it.

 

I've been saying that yes, this is a bug, no it doesn't happen all the time constantly. I said that I personally don't experience it that often with my beastly CPU but even when I do, it doesn't bother me to the point of shedding tears and threatening to leave this MMO because the customer is always right! q.Q

 

I said they're obviously aware and will fix it eventually.

 

Now, they've officially told you what I've been telling you.

 

 

You still don't know when or how they'll fix it, we're still with the same system you guys hate so much. All I did was repeatedly tell you what would obviously eventually happen, which it just did.

[Rendekar]

and how many people who quit warhammer in the 1st 3 months came back a year or two later?

 

Almost none. This is a very simple fact many people fail to see. (Including the developers I guess). You have just one shot. If you miss, then it is gg.

[Xzenorath]

and how many people who quit warhammer in the 1st 3 months came back a year or two later?

 

Probably not many because the game blew a lot more than just a clunky UI and combat.

[TripleOG]

Still I would rather have a delay and keep the animations, they really do make combat alot more fun to engage in. In wow I would quickly get bored with farming mobs cuz it didn't look appealing at all when killing them.

 

In TOR you can actually sense that your smashing through stuff with a combination of sound, animation and effects.

 

Sure I would love if there was no delay and no I haven't done more than 2-3 bg's so far, I'm sure it would irritate me more if I had pvped more. But honestly even in pvp everyone is at least in the same boat, it's not like anyone gets an advantage over others.

 

Only way I see a solution is getting used to it or find something magical that could remove the delay WITHOUT removing the animations. Removing the animations will screw the entire combat system up completely tbh.

 

Ye it's a tough issue :S

 

Yes the combat animations look amazing; however, when you cant heal because of the delay then its time to FIX IT. Either fix or lose a majority of your long term subscribers (like me)

[Spetsnazos]

As a business owner, and as evinced by these forums, the customer is NOT always right. Mr. Reid also said that they will be talking about this publicly very soon. So you'll get your answers if you develop some patience.

 

Your instant gratification/entitlement mindset is humorous.

 

You must not be in business very long. Realize that the CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS right, right now. Unless you have something no one else has, you better believe you gotta do all you can for the customers to keep coming back.

 

Sorry but this isn't the only MMO in the market.

[ShaanuJaanu]

Melee delay is ridiculous.

[Khoranth]

It's obvious that there are folks in this thread who simply don't grasp what is going on here. Honestly, that's fine, you don't need to understand.

 

All I want is Bioware to comment on the issue. Either:

 

"We're happy with the current state of gameplay responsiveness."

 

Or

 

"We plan to improve gameplay responsiveness."

 

And that's all I'll need to know to make my decision to renew my subscription.

 

 

agree. I would really like them to address this issue.

[Paganini]

It's not "at the top of their list" because you made a giant thread.

 

He said that they're already discussing it internally. Which is EXACTLY what I've been saying all along, they're not idiots, they realize there's issues and when you complain this much about it, they actually bother to let you know they're working on it.

 

I've been saying that yes, this is a bug, no it doesn't happen all the time constantly. I said that I personally don't experience it that often with my beastly CPU but even when I do, it doesn't bother me to the point of shedding tears and threatening to leave this MMO because the customer is always right! q.Q

 

I said they're obviously aware and will fix it eventually.

 

Now, they've officially told you what I've been telling you.

 

 

You still don't know when or how they'll fix it, we're still with the same system you guys hate so much. All I did was repeatedly tell you what would obviously eventually happen, which it just did.

 

Making a big deal out of it gets a faster response and raises it on their priority list. This is really not a complicated concept.

[fallenvirtues]

Do the same at pvp and then we talk again.And please dont make a replay saying that i won many duels or bg's wen i was facing premades or skill players cause then you will be a bad troll.

 

No i wont lie...In PvP I generally use my keybinds...I wont say I never click and still find success..but it is what it is

[MaceTowani]

THANK you! i posted something VERY similar to this regarding both my healer AND my tank -- but folk don't get it, they think it's just "flame on."

 

THIS is a problem. THIS deserves a response. this thread is an attempt to say, PLEASE RECOGNIZE AND RESPOND TO THE PROBLEM.

 

This actually happened to me more than a couple of times where for one reason or another, I am randomly targeted, amazingly, by a high DPS boss move, and then I have to heal myself instead of an ally who is taking a beating in my line of sight.

 

That's when you make a decision, do I heal myself, or them? Do I buff me or them? What's going to help us in the long run? Etc. Sometimes you have to sacrifice your life for the greater good, sometimes you have to let one of your companions go to ensure your survival and that of the entire team.

 

If you're a Jedi Sage like me, Force Bubble can REALLY save your life, even if you have the TINIEST drop of health left because you are essentially immune to ALL attacks for quite a bit. This gives you plenty of time to heal and give you and your companions a breather from the rage-mongering boss.

[Scaire]

Stephen reid responded to the question on reddit. Check it out. Im hopeful atleast Edited December 28, 2011 by Scaire

[hoilandms]

I don't see why this is still debated. If you can't naturally feel the delay based on the way you play, then do the "mount" test. Doesn't matter what machine you're on, class, or whatever. You can re-create it time after time.

 

Simply hit your mount key then try moving forward the second the bar shows that it's finished. your mount will appear and then disappear. Doesn't matter if you keybind, click, spam keybinds, or spam clicks.

 

That is the delay that is plaguing everything you do. Whether it be animations or capping a node on Alderan warfront, it's there.

 

Sure, you can get around it by waiting an extra second or whatever, but that doesn't mean the issue isn't happening. I doubt that it's intended or has anything thing to do with the way combat is "meant" to be. If players are comfortable with watching animations and timing and what not, that's totally fine. I'm not here to judge or critique. Just have fun. I'd love it if everyone was happy. Understand though, that most players keybind. Most players that keybind also spam to a degree. To ensure they are maximizing efficiency every 1.5 seconds with zero downtime.

 

There's roughly 1.5 million playing. Out of that, i'd bet only 20k post on the forums. I'm the only one in my guild that reads the forums, and i can assure you that they are all complaining about this as well. They just don't care about the life of the game like i do. Most people don't care enough to post, they'll just quit and be done with it. It sucks, cause it makes me look like a total fan boy for defending bioware and this issue. It's like i have to beg people to give it time to hopefully be fixed.

 

Also keep in mind that this issue is all over other gaming forums and spreading. All it takes is a handful of people to tell their friends that the combat isn't responsive and to not buy until it's fixed. Then they tell 2 friends and so on. Add that to how easy it is to find tons of people complaining about it all over the forums.

 

Just try the mount thing for yourself if you can't notice it, and help work towards a better game. Enough with the "adjust" to faulty system. That doesn't fly with everyone.

 

I love you BioWare.

 

This is a great post.

 

Are you listening? Is there an official response yet?

[Rendekar]

StephenReid on Reddit says :

 

Hey! It has been discussed internally, and we'll talk about it publicly soon. It's not a simple issue so we don't want to issue a quick, off-the-cuff response.

[Contumelious]

It's not "at the top of their list" because you made a giant thread.

 

He said that they're already discussing it internally. Which is EXACTLY what I've been saying all along, they're not idiots, they realize there's issues and when you complain this much about it, they actually bother to let you know they're working on it.

 

I've been saying that yes, this is a bug, no it doesn't happen all the time constantly. I said that I personally don't experience it that often with my beastly CPU but even when I do, it doesn't bother me to the point of shedding tears and threatening to leave this MMO because the customer is always right! q.Q

 

I said they're obviously aware and will fix it eventually.

 

Now, they've officially told you what I've been telling you.

 

 

You still don't know when or how they'll fix it, we're still with the same system you guys hate so much. All I did was repeatedly tell you what would obviously eventually happen, which it just did.

 

I'm sorry, but the fact that your ego is inflated to the point of literally you think you are right while everyone else are wrong, and the problem most be connected to lag from bad hardware...

 

You really need to shut up. I'm sorry for saying it like that, and it isn't very nice - but the way you have been conducting yourself in this thread right from the get-go is getting me pissed off.

 

Anyway--

 

I'm very happy at Stephen Reids acknowledgement of the issue, and we can only hope the issue can be fixed sooner rather than later=)

[Lusiferz]

Update: Stephen Reid, the Senior Community Manager has responded to a post on the reddit thread about ability delay.

 

The question: "Ability Delay. This has been brought up all over the forums at swtor.com including http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=95738 . Have you guys discussed this internally, and if so, is there an ETA for a fix on this issue?"

 

His Response: "Hey! It has been discussed internally, and we'll talk about it publicly soon. It's not a simple issue so we don't want to issue a quick, off-the-cuff response."

 

So we can all relax guys! They hurd us! Herp.

 

Now what they will respond with is interesting.

 

So now i don't have to adapt to this perfect and realistic gameplay?What happend???

 

The other guy said that all people are wrong and they wanted a copy of WOW.But he as a pro knows how to adapt to new games and can be good in this game.

 

Don't leave me in the dark.Now i must press buttons fast or one by one???

 

oh God help me