Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Nightrode]

I really hope BW will make an announcement about this. If they got plans to fix it, this game will be amazing for years to come.

 

Unfortunately, if they don't fix this within a couple of months I think they will cut they're subscribers in half, Including me.

 

Great game, I love it.. This is not a short-term issue for anyone I think, but it needs to be fixed.

 

They are going to make an announcement for those who missed it:

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/nty9d/im_stephen_reid_senior_community_manager_for_star/

 

We'll have to see what happens.

[Xcore]

I think everyone is anxiously awaiting the Bioware response...

[Halacs]

I think everyone is anxiously awaiting the Bioware response...

 

Apparently its being discussed internally.

[Arkimor]

They are going to make an announcement for those who missed it:

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/nty9d/im_stephen_reid_senior_community_manager_for_star/

 

We'll have to see what happens.

 

Thanks for the link.

 

If it can be believed it means that Bioware is aware of the problem, that's good. Now let's see if they actually follow up and do something about it. Looking forward to hearing more from Bioware.

[Angrec]

Yeah this issue being fixed promptly decides if I will stay or not. I play for pvp above all else and this issue kills pvp for me by making it feel sluggish and unresponsive.

[ArchAngelAlien]

Fix this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ***

[Brothertom]

they better fix it and fix it fast. A lot of people dont understand the issue, I've been playing mmos for 7 years and I didnt understand it until i read this thread. A lot of the people complaining about FPS are actually complaining about this issue

 

Regardless its poor performance and we will not tolerate it, at least I certainly won't.

[Bob-ombaFett]

After reading hundreds of responses about this topic, I am fairly confident that the responsiveness issue will not be rectified in a timely manner. I will be very impressed if we see a solution that we all agree on within the next 2-3 months, but I honestly believe that if BioWare does not put this as their #1 Most Wanted Fix, all of us will have to endure it for well into Q3-Q4 of 2012.

 

I am not by any means a programmer and I do not want to give the impression that I know exactly what is involved when it comes to game development, but I am a problem-solver at heart and would like to put my two cents into all of this.

 

It is obvious that BioWare boasts its IP with many features, one being its choreographed fighting, and because of it I feel safe to say that BioWare will not forgo that feature (I personally love the feature and can't peel my eyes from the action unfolding as it does with this in-game). Of course all the bells and whistles aren't worth a damn if they get in the way of the mechanics of gameplay, which seems to be what is happening within the game today. The only solution is to find a happy medium that will bring a truce between what the developers want out of SWTOR and what the players feel it should evolve into. That is clear enough, but the tricky part is figuring out what that solution exactly means.

 

 

My first thought to the "lack of response" time was, "But isn't that how one would do it IRL?"

 

 

Let me explain myself:

 

Given the example video by Samdbtto (TOR Target Switch Responsiveness

), if I were considering to do the same action in real life, my aiming would be horribly decreased if I were to blast 4-5 pistol shots toward one target while attempting to throw a grenade at another completely different target at the same time, and vice versa. Hell, I would be surprised to hit either target if I were personally doing those two maneuvers at the same time! So, in real life, to help myself in getting my aim down on both targets, I would naturally do one ability, and then switch to the other soon after, all the while considering that I am human and am unable to twitch-shoot in mere nano-seconds with pinpoint accuracy.

 

My logical mind preceded in my understanding of this gameplay design and I began accepting it as the reason why my character is acting as I would in real life.

 

 

...but we are not playing this game to mimic reality, so why the hell should I conform to such limitations when I can wield a lightsaber and be a Force user?

 

Having played World of Warcraft for a couple of years, I can vouch that its user-to-avatar responsiveness is much more advanced in comparison to SWTOR. Still, I feel if BioWare completely caters to the players and follows the same path as WoW with their solution to responsiveness, I will be disappointed in the results. I do not wish to be in lightsaber duels that are kin to tweenies in a pool hitting each other with neon-colored pool noodles...

 

 

The only solution that I can foresee happening with this battle between Presentation and Gameplay Mechanics is somewhat simple: to create a "penalty" system to be implemented within the combat itself.

 

Simply put, give the player the choice to continue with the full-on hit capability of whatever ability they initiate, or allow them to "interrupt" that ability for another in exchange for the increased chance of the opponent dodging/parrying/blocking it; or a decrease in the amount of damage given to the opponent depending how far along the first ability was in before "interrupting" it with the second; or opening the player to an increased chance of being critted by the opponent, a la "mini-debuff"; or whatever else the developers can decide on what is appropriate given the class/spec the player has rolled (tank/DPS/heal).

 

Still, it is not a simple solution to execute, as there is much to consider the ramifications of such a decision; the most obvious ones being to reconfigure the RNG of combat mechanics, as well as making an adaptable animation solution for the characters on-screen so that we still stay true to the nature of choreographed fighting as the developers intended.

 

Let's just hope BioWare resolves it with a grand solution and within an acceptable timeframe, not only for us players, but for their investors as well.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Bob-ombaFett

[Halacs]

they better fix it and fix it fast. A lot of people dont understand the issue, I've been playing mmos for 7 years and I didnt understand it until i read this thread. A lot of the people complaining about FPS are actually complaining about this issue

 

Regardless its poor performance and we will not tolerate it, at least I certainly won't.

 

Just have a bit of patience. MMO`s change and evolve. If you enjoy the game just try to give it some time. Atleast they are looking at it now.

[hulduet]

I'm a little confused about this issue as it appears to be one that has a few different levels. People seem to encounter various problems that someone else might not notice/or even get themselves.

 

Made a video last night, sorry for the poor edit, that shows how the game is for me:

 

 

Is anyone having a problem like that? Yeah, the fps is worse than it should be due to fraps. Generally i have around 15-20 fps. I have this "problem" all the time, tho at some points it's less noticeable. I was a little surprised at the 0.8 second delay in action that i encountered. Basically from that i press a key on the keyboard it takes 0.8 seconds before it takes effect in the game. This is the first mmo or rather *game* that i've seen this problem in. Now *if* i were to have had a latency of at least 500-700+ this would occur in any mmo/online game. But my latency is 50!

 

Anyway that is how it is for me.

 

<edit> I just wanted to add that the game runs pretty smooth at 15 fps, especially if you're used to it. It's not like it stutters or anything like that.

Edited December 29, 2011 by hulduet

[JudiahSWTOR]

The original post, you have made a valid point. I also noticed that there seems to be a delay when using attacks, cc, blah blah. Hopefully they can fix this and other issues in the next few months. As for me and many players by the time they fix everything, it will be summer, which means uninstall MMOs. It makes me wonder though, is the lack of responsiveness the reason why we have no Macros?

[Nightrode]

For any bounty hunter -- try using Vent Heat and then unload immediately after and you'll understand what's wrong.

 

It takes me 2-3 attempts to use unload and it doesnt work, it bugs out the first time every time.

[Xcore]

I'm a little confused about this issue as it appears to be one that has a few different levels. People seem to encounter various problems that someone else might not notice/or even get themselves.

 

Made a video last night, sorry for the poor edit, that shows how the game is for me:

 

 

Is anyone having a problem like that? Yeah, the fps is worse than it should be due to fraps. Generally i have around 15-20 fps. I have this "problem" all the time, tho at some points it's less noticeable. I was a little surprised at the 0.8 second delay in action that i encountered. Basically from that i press a key on the keyboard it takes 0.8 seconds before it takes effect in the game. This is the first mmo or rather *game* that i've seen this problem in. Now *if* i were to have had a latency of at least 500-700+ this would occur in any mmo/online game. But my latency is 50!

 

Anyway that is how it is for me.

 

<edit> I just wanted to add that the game runs pretty smooth at 15 fps, especially if you're used to it. It's not like it stutters or anything like that.

 

I know you posted this video before, I added it to the OP now. I think it showcases a valid different issue that is separate from ability linking (aka rotations etc.).

 

Thank You, I love the timer as well... nice touch.

[Halacs]

I set my cast Q up to 1s and that made the problem less noticable. You can still see the delay due to animation and that equals a longer cast time then what is stated in tool tips, but less evident now.

[Cassatella]

this delay in a cast bar completing and the spell actually going off is my biggest complaint with this game. it's frustrating as hell when you see a cast bar complete, but still have to wait another half a second for the ability to actually cast.

 

in dpsing it's annoying because mobs don't die as fast as they should, or cc doesn't go off like it supposed to and you end up having to press / click an ability two or three times extra than what you should.

 

in healing, it's just hard to keep people up because my only two heals so far have cast times, and i'm having to wait up to a whole second for spells to actually finish before i can start casting another or on someone else. this might not be so bad for small skirmishes and such, but for longer boss type fights, the half second here / whole second there adds up over the course of a fight and ends up being 15-20 seconds total of you just standing there doing nothing useful at all.

 

there's some other things i could complain about as well, but i'll stick with the topic of the thread for this post.

 

please bioware, fix this, as this is the most crucial aspect of an mmo in my opinion, and defines whether or not the game is truly playable. yes, you have voice acting, yada yada yada, but if you can't fix the core gameplay mechanic, then i won't be staying past the first month.

[Tenserr]

I have to voice my support for the OP and his mission. The disconnect from my character is blatant (as a healing Operative) and ruining my experience. Admittedly, I'm already a space-bar/read subtitle player through dialogue, and having a clunk combat system to fall back to is painful. I sincerely hope this can be fixed and I can really submerge into a long stint of playing this game. As of now, it looks like that will be difficult to do.

[Froth]

I have to voice my support for the OP and his mission. The disconnect from my character is blatant (as a healing Operative) and ruining my experience. Admittedly, I'm already a space-bar/read subtitle player through dialogue, and having a clunk combat system to fall back to is painful. I sincerely hope this can be fixed and I can really submerge into a long stint of playing this game. As of now, it looks like that will be difficult to do.

 

yessir, I play operative as well. I'm sure it affects other classes just as much but from day 1 in beta I noticed the OP's issues. I understand that it was intentional to create the current game mechanics for "fluid gameplay" but I hope they change it so it doesn't suck so bad.

[Xund]

Just got my wife to start playing, chief complaint: Ability delay for animations, clunky feeling. The camera is a little annoying too, but I'll pick my battles.

[Kirkkh]

Just got my wife to start playing, chief complaint: Ability delay for animations, clunky feeling. The camera is a little annoying too, but I'll pick my battles.

 

Good idea. Wise with the relationships you are.

[Xund]

lol @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DVAsmrwdtQ

[Brodsk]

Stephen Reid answer on Reddit, some ours ago:

 

Q: Ability Delay. Have you guys discussed this internally, and if so, is there an ETA for a fix on this issue?

 

A: Hey! It has been discussed internally, and we'll talk about it publicly soon. It's not a simple issue so we don't want to issue a quick, off-the-cuff response.

 

"It's not a simple issue"

 

Well, well, well, I guess it's not really a problem with hardware-lag-fps-mashing-buttons-etc-herp-derp-etc, isn't it fellas? LOL.

 

feelsgoodman.jpg

[hulduet]

^ I guess that is good news. One can hope at least...

[dajinn-]

lol? why the **** does he talk about it on reddit...that is so dumb.

[Putok]

Stephen Reid answer on Reddit, some ours ago:

 

Q: Ability Delay. Have you guys discussed this internally, and if so, is there an ETA for a fix on this issue?

 

A: Hey! It has been discussed internally, and we'll talk about it publicly soon. It's not a simple issue so we don't want to issue a quick, off-the-cuff response.

 

"It's not a simple issue"

 

Well, well, well, I guess it's not really a problem with hardware-lag-fps-mashing-buttons-etc-herp-derp-etc, isn't it fellas? LOL.

 

feelsgoodman.jpg

 

I'm glad they'll be addressing it, even if it isn't a simple issue. Honesty is appreciated. It seems they tightened things up a bit with the patch on Tuesday, at least for my Assassin. I no longer have any issues using interrupts or tanking CDs mid animation/GCD. There is still sometimes some SLIGHT lag when using them (under .2s), but they always fire, and are usually instant. I still sometimes experience some rotational issues, but those seem slightly better too.

 

That gives me some hope. I look forward to hearing what they have to say.

[Cfine]

Isnt it so funny how BW keeps posting up how amazing their game is and how its breaking all these records and ****? Kinda makes me think that they are trying to sidestep the problems and be like LOOK HOW GOOD OUR GAME IS. You have a problem with the game? Oh its ok because 50 million hours have been played yata yata yata, come on....Every company coming out with a new mmo always promises **** and says they are going to be different, yeah ok. Hate them, love them, Blizzard is the only company in my opinion who has shown they have what it takes to make a good mmo, not in terms of the content of wow or anything, but the GAME itself.