Optimal Stats For All 24 Disciplines, KOTFE Edition

[TACeMossie]

Is there still a way to find Bant's work for 5.0?

 

Someone posted it on reddit.

 

And Bant, if you're still here, you missed 10/11 ticks on scorch/Plastmatize with Pyro/Plasmatech. Might want to fix that up

[Goblin_Lackey]

Someone posted it on reddit.

 

And Bant, if you're still here, you missed 10/11 ticks on scorch/Plastmatize with Pyro/Plasmatech. Might want to fix that up

 

I double checked that after I saw your Reddit comments. It's still there at 11 hits per activation, no change.

[TACeMossie]

I double checked that after I saw your Reddit comments. It's still there at 11 hits per activation, no change.

 

Oh god i missed the "Hits" box, no wonder why I thought it was so far off.

 

Yeah, I screwed up, Pyro's probably gonna suck

[Goblin_Lackey]

Still working on pulling together all of the data from 5.0, I hope to have a full update post up over the weekend. I have the data entered, but I am still in the process of error checking all of the classes.

 

Going forward, after the 5.0 update I won't be updating the optimal stats.

I have played constantly since 2012 with the same operations raid group and we have done all of the available content multiple times. We reached a group decision that there was nothing left for us here, and all of the available 5.0 info continues to point in that direction. We have no desire to try and fight through gear RNG to kill operations that we already killed at level twice. I get a good deal of entertainment out of theorycrafting but at this point the work in theorycrafting is mainly maintenance on my part.

I will be subscribed through the month of December, but will be unsubscribed starting with 2017. That means that there will be no updates for future patches unless someone else is willing to enter the information since the official forums are subscription locked. All of spreadsheets, code base and posts are available for anyone who wishes them (they are all google doc based)

 

 

Inside the update:

There will be optimal stat distributions for a total of 5 tiers of gear: (Galactic Command Tier: Gear type)

• Eternal Commander MK-3 (Tier 1: Artifact, 230)
  
• Eternal Commander MK-13 (Tier 2: Artifact, 234)
  
• Eternal Commander MK-15 (Tier 2: Legendary, 236)
  
• Iokath MK-3 (Tier 3: Artifact, 240)
  
• Iokath MK-5 (Tier 3: Legendary, 242)
  

 

In each Tier of Gear there will be the following lists:

• DPS Ranking
  
• Optimal Stats (no long seperated by stim type)
  
• Tank Information vs Damage Profiles
  
• Healer Information vs Number of Targets
  

 

There will also be updated rotations in the individual class notes section at the end.

 

Here is the link to the active/final spreadsheet for 5.0 which has all of the information:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GtgkOZDgcA3dlBjdoLUzg02zNl9_5fvCU48iY-P0vv0/edit?usp=sharing

 

 

 

Example Statistics (generated on 11/30, before full error check)

 

DPS Rankings for Iokath MK-5 (Tier 3 Legendary, 242) Gear

Rank - DPS+-StdDev - vs Average (9358) DPS --- Imperial - Republic

01 - 9876+-382 - +5.54% --- Mercenary-Innovative Ordinance || Commando-Assault Specialist

02 - 9795+-187 - +4.68% --- Sniper-Virulence || Gunslinger-Dirty Fighting

03 - 9763+-246 - +4.33% --- Sniper-Engineering || Gunslinger-Saboteur

04 - 9731+-250 - +3.98% --- Operative-Lethality || Scoundrel-Ruffian

05 - 9672+-259 - +3.35% --- Marauder-Annihilation || Sentinel-Watchman

06 - 9573+-412 - +2.30% --- Juggernaut-Rage || Guardian-Focus

07 - 9531+-476 - +1.85% --- Mercenary-Arsenal || Commando-Gunnery

08 - 9518+-479 - +1.71% --- Operative-Concealment || Scoundrel-Scrapper

09 - 9487+-271 - +1.38% --- Marauder-Carnage || Sentinel-Combat

10 - 9397+-338 - +0.42% --- Juggernaut-Vengeance || Guardian-Vigilance

11 - 9378+-515 - +0.22% --- Assassin-Deception || Shadow-Infiltration

12 - 9225+-320 - -1.41% --- Marauder-Fury || Sentinel-Concentration

13 - 9065+-459 - -3.13% --- Powertech-Advanced Prototype || Vanguard-Tactics

14 - 9034+-315 - -3.46% --- Assassin-Hatred || Shadow-Serenity

15 - 8915+-346 - -4.73% --- Powertech-Pyrotech || Vanguard-Plasmatech

16 - 8912+-242 - -4.76% --- Sorcerer-Madness || Sage-Balance

17 - 8860+-421 - -5.32% --- Sniper-Marksman || Gunslinger-Sharpshooter

18 - 8708+-276 - -6.94% --- Sorcerer-Lightning || Sage-Telekinetics

 

 

Statistics:

Average DPS: 9358

Max - Min DPS: 1168

DPS Range: 9292 +- 584

 

 

Tanks vs Average Damage Profile: 50% MRKE / 35% FTKE / 15% FTIE @ 10000 DtPS with 50% AOE

Rank - DtPS - vs Average (2399.5) DtPS --- Imperial - Republic

01 - 2065 DtPS - -13.93% --- Assassin-Darkness || Shadow-Kinetic Combat

02 - 2475 DtPS - +3.15% --- Juggernaut-Immortal || Guardian-Defence

03 - 2658 DtPS - +10.78% --- Powertech-Shield Tech || Vanguard-Shield Specialist

 

Healers for 3 Targets

01 - 20277+-750 - +19.38% --- Operative-Medicine || Scoundrel-Sawbones

02 - 16279+-539 - -4.16% --- Sorcerer-Corruption || Sage-Seer

03 - 14401+-694 - -15.22% --- Mercenary-Bodyguard || Commando-Combat Medic

 

 

Other Notes

• All of the DPS numbers above are based on the wording for the abilities, not any bugs that are occurring at the moment, a majority of my info used is not actually from in-game sources. So I'm not sure what is working and what is broken. (for example: I assume that all of the ICDs for Assassins and Shadows both have correctly working ICDs and that stances function as advertised)
  
• Assassin Tanks best Tanks. Who thought giving only one tank a 30% AOE reduction was a good idea. Not to mention a 10% uptime on a 60% damage reduction. Also: Deception having the -30% AOE, TWICE!
  
• It is rather odd to see that the super obvious problems with the class changes that were easy to see from the first PTS datamining back in August made it all the way through to the live server. I'm not sure why the PTS Server even existed this time besides as a way to check the box that said "Had a PTS".
  

[Liquor]

Great work and you will be missed!!

 

Guess I'll keep the operative healer and move from jugg to sin tank.

[phalczen]

In each Tier of Gear there will be the following lists:

• DPS Ranking
  
• Optimal Stats (no long seperated by stim type)
  
• Tank Information vs Damage Profiles
  
• Healer Information vs Number of Targets
  

 

Why? Is that because you figured Accuracy would be "best", given that we'll only have one set of gear for pve/pvp and pvp needs less accuracy making the Accuracy stim more useful?

 

Do you know what the new accuracy goal is for 5.0?

 

So sorry to see you leaving Bant.

[Goblin_Lackey]

Why? Is that because you figured Accuracy would be "best", given that we'll only have one set of gear for pve/pvp and pvp needs less accuracy making the Accuracy stim more useful?

 

Do you know what the new accuracy goal is for 5.0?

 

So sorry to see you leaving Bant.

 

Mainly because whats the point of having both? It made sense when the accuracy stim came out half way through 4.0 when people are already geared, but now there are there from the start and no one has any gear yet.

 

Also as usual: this post applies only to PVE, not PVP.

 

Accuracy goal for level 70 is 737 (actually 736.4)

Easiest way to get near that for all gear levels is to use 5 Augments and and Accuracy Stim (720 total) That way new gear doesn't matter with hitting that goal.

[Britharen]

Mainly because whats the point of having both?

 

I'll give you 2 reasons.

Dual Role classes and PVP. I do not want to have to switch stims(esp. since they last 8 hours) every time I switch activities and/or roles. Acc stims are incompatible with pvp gearing and heal gearing.

[shyroman]

I have a question about the virulence ability usage that's on the test sheet. During the execute phase, the usage of lethal shot and takedown remain the same as pre-execute. I thought that lethal shot did more due to the execute buff to the internal damage portion while under 30% so it would completely replace takedown during execute.

[UberSamoyed]

I'll give you 2 reasons.

Dual Role classes and PVP. I do not want to have to switch stims(esp. since they last 8 hours) every time I switch activities and/or roles. Acc stims are incompatible with pvp gearing and heal gearing.

 

 

Also as usual: this post applies only to PVE, not PVP.

 

 

 

As for frequently switching between roles, which I do(did)...you make the concession that you will have a few wasted points of accuracy (in your dps role) by employing the mastery stim. It's a simple exercise of deciding which stat you want to sacrifice...knowing that we're talking about inconsequential differences in output. Bant's numbers should make that easy. Regardless, Bant's main theme is to provide the "optimized" number and this scenario is obviously not optimal. In fact, if the gearing system wasn't so cumbersome..and one truly cared about having the exact optimized set of gear for both...you really should employ different sets of gear/stims for each role. But, that's not really realistic in this environment so you just run an "un-optimized" set. In the end, we're really talking about fractions of fractions...so it really doesn't matter.

 

RIP Psy-Ops...we fought the good fight, and had a good run.

Edited December 2, 2016 by UberSamoyed

[Qwurdilu]

Still working on pulling together all of the data from 5.0, I hope to have a full update post up over the weekend. I have the data entered, but I am still in the process of error checking all of the classes.

 

Going forward, after the 5.0 update I won't be updating the optimal stats.

I have played constantly since 2012 with the same operations raid group and we have done all of the available content multiple times. We reached a group decision that there was nothing left for us here, and all of the available 5.0 info continues to point in that direction. We have no desire to try and fight through gear RNG to kill operations that we already killed at level twice. I get a good deal of entertainment out of theorycrafting but at this point the work in theorycrafting is mainly maintenance on my part.

I will be subscribed through the month of December, but will be unsubscribed starting with 2017. That means that there will be no updates for future patches unless someone else is willing to enter the information since the official forums are subscription locked. All of spreadsheets, code base and posts are available for anyone who wishes them (they are all google doc based)

 

 

Inside the update:

There will be optimal stat distributions for a total of 5 tiers of gear: (Galactic Command Tier: Gear type)

• Eternal Commander MK-3 (Tier 1: Artifact, 230)
  
• Eternal Commander MK-13 (Tier 2: Artifact, 234)
  
• Eternal Commander MK-15 (Tier 2: Legendary, 236)
  
• Iokath MK-3 (Tier 3: Artifact, 240)
  
• Iokath MK-5 (Tier 3: Legendary, 242)
  

 

In each Tier of Gear there will be the following lists:

• DPS Ranking
  
• Optimal Stats (no long seperated by stim type)
  
• Tank Information vs Damage Profiles
  
• Healer Information vs Number of Targets
  

 

There will also be updated rotations in the individual class notes section at the end.

 

Here is the link to the active/final spreadsheet for 5.0 which has all of the information:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GtgkOZDgcA3dlBjdoLUzg02zNl9_5fvCU48iY-P0vv0/edit?usp=sharing

 

 

 

Example Statistics (generated on 11/30, before full error check)

 

DPS Rankings for Iokath MK-5 (Tier 3 Legendary, 242) Gear

Rank - DPS+-StdDev - vs Average (9358) DPS --- Imperial - Republic

01 - 9876+-382 - +5.54% --- Mercenary-Innovative Ordinance || Commando-Assault Specialist

02 - 9795+-187 - +4.68% --- Sniper-Virulence || Gunslinger-Dirty Fighting

03 - 9763+-246 - +4.33% --- Sniper-Engineering || Gunslinger-Saboteur

04 - 9731+-250 - +3.98% --- Operative-Lethality || Scoundrel-Ruffian

05 - 9672+-259 - +3.35% --- Marauder-Annihilation || Sentinel-Watchman

06 - 9573+-412 - +2.30% --- Juggernaut-Rage || Guardian-Focus

07 - 9531+-476 - +1.85% --- Mercenary-Arsenal || Commando-Gunnery

08 - 9518+-479 - +1.71% --- Operative-Concealment || Scoundrel-Scrapper

09 - 9487+-271 - +1.38% --- Marauder-Carnage || Sentinel-Combat

10 - 9397+-338 - +0.42% --- Juggernaut-Vengeance || Guardian-Vigilance

11 - 9378+-515 - +0.22% --- Assassin-Deception || Shadow-Infiltration

12 - 9225+-320 - -1.41% --- Marauder-Fury || Sentinel-Concentration

13 - 9065+-459 - -3.13% --- Powertech-Advanced Prototype || Vanguard-Tactics

14 - 9034+-315 - -3.46% --- Assassin-Hatred || Shadow-Serenity

15 - 8915+-346 - -4.73% --- Powertech-Pyrotech || Vanguard-Plasmatech

16 - 8912+-242 - -4.76% --- Sorcerer-Madness || Sage-Balance

17 - 8860+-421 - -5.32% --- Sniper-Marksman || Gunslinger-Sharpshooter

18 - 8708+-276 - -6.94% --- Sorcerer-Lightning || Sage-Telekinetics

 

 

Statistics:

Average DPS: 9358

Max - Min DPS: 1168

DPS Range: 9292 +- 584

 

 

Tanks vs Average Damage Profile: 50% MRKE / 35% FTKE / 15% FTIE @ 10000 DtPS with 50% AOE

Rank - DtPS - vs Average (2399.5) DtPS --- Imperial - Republic

01 - 2065 DtPS - -13.93% --- Assassin-Darkness || Shadow-Kinetic Combat

02 - 2475 DtPS - +3.15% --- Juggernaut-Immortal || Guardian-Defence

03 - 2658 DtPS - +10.78% --- Powertech-Shield Tech || Vanguard-Shield Specialist

 

Healers for 3 Targets

01 - 20277+-750 - +19.38% --- Operative-Medicine || Scoundrel-Sawbones

02 - 16279+-539 - -4.16% --- Sorcerer-Corruption || Sage-Seer

03 - 14401+-694 - -15.22% --- Mercenary-Bodyguard || Commando-Combat Medic

 

 

Other Notes

• All of the DPS numbers above are based on the wording for the abilities, not any bugs that are occurring at the moment, a majority of my info used is not actually from in-game sources. So I'm not sure what is working and what is broken. (for example: I assume that all of the ICDs for Assassins and Shadows both have correctly working ICDs and that stances function as advertised)
  
• Assassin Tanks best Tanks. Who thought giving only one tank a 30% AOE reduction was a good idea. Not to mention a 10% uptime on a 60% damage reduction. Also: Deception having the -30% AOE, TWICE!
  
• It is rather odd to see that the super obvious problems with the class changes that were easy to see from the first PTS datamining back in August made it all the way through to the live server. I'm not sure why the PTS Server even existed this time besides as a way to check the box that said "Had a PTS".
  

 

I gotta say i really love your work, its insightfull.

If you ever have sparetime, could you add damage taken numbers for mixed profiles for dps and healers? I feel like there are MAJOR differences that are more important to adress than dps differences.

For example if you take Smash jugg vs vengeance, its kind of a joke how much more durable vengeance is.

Same for AP PT vs Pyro. etc.

For me dps seems quite balanced, its utilities and damge taken that makes certrain speccs really bad or really good imho.

Same for healers, i wonder how much less dmg merc takes now compared to operative or sorc?

Also dps numbers for tanks would be really intresting.

I know its tons of work, so maybe its something for your wall of crazy?

[Goblin_Lackey]

I gotta say i really love your work, its insightfull.

If you ever have sparetime, could you add damage taken numbers for mixed profiles for dps and healers? I feel like there are MAJOR differences that are more important to adress than dps differences.

For example if you take Smash jugg vs vengeance, its kind of a joke how much more durable vengeance is.

Same for AP PT vs Pyro. etc.

For me dps seems quite balanced, its utilities and damge taken that makes certrain speccs really bad or really good imho.

Same for healers, i wonder how much less dmg merc takes now compared to operative or sorc?

Also dps numbers for tanks would be really intresting.

I know its tons of work, so maybe its something for your wall of crazy?

 

Implementing DtPS Ranking for Healers and DPS is pretty easy to do (full disclosure, already had it working, just added a bit of code to make it spit out a ranking) It just runs a simple DtPS calculation on a normal geared DPS/Healer. Normal Rotation is being followed. I did time average in the AOE-defensives (Vengeance AOE Taunt and Sniper Entrench) because those are short DCDs with large uptime and mainly because I felt like it. Defensive Utilities are sometimes used, depends on if they are normal usage for PVE (No consistency on my part). All tanking and Healing Buffs/debuffs are active. Most activated DCDs are not used, nor are self healing/absorb shields included (future update maybe, depends on ambition), so Healers look squishier than they are.

Getting Tank dps numbers is actually trickier because their damage and rotation depends on the boss hitting them so it would take some work to get it right.

 

DPS and Healer Survivability (Estimate)

Average Damage Profile: 50% MRKE / 35% FTKE / 15% FTIE @ 10000 DtPS with 50% AOE

Rank - DtPS (% Total Reduction) - vs Average DtPS (4915) --- Imperial - Republic

01 - 3391 DtPS (66.09% Reduction) - +31.0% --- Assassin-Deception || Shadow-Infiltration

02 - 4587 DtPS (54.13% Reduction) - +6.67% --- Marauder-Carnage || Sentinel-Combat

03 - 4628 DtPS (53.72% Reduction) - +5.83% --- Sorcerer-Lightning || Sage-Telekinetics

04 - 4645 DtPS (53.55% Reduction) - +5.49% --- Mercenary-Bodyguard || Commando-Combat Medic

05 - 4658 DtPS (53.42% Reduction) - +5.23% --- Juggernaut-Vengeance || Guardian-Vigilance

06 - 4701 DtPS (52.99% Reduction) - +4.35% --- Operative-Medicine || Scoundrel-Sawbones

07 - 4735 DtPS (52.65% Reduction) - +3.67% --- Marauder-Fury || Sentinel-Concentration

08 - 4768 DtPS (52.32% Reduction) - +3.00% --- Mercenary-Arsenal || Commando-Gunnery

09 - 4768 DtPS (52.32% Reduction) - +3.00% --- Mercenary-Innovative Ordinance || Commando-Assault Specialist

10 - 4949 DtPS (50.51% Reduction) - -0.68% --- Powertech-Advanced Prototype || Vanguard-Tactics

11 - 4960 DtPS (50.40% Reduction) - -0.91% --- Marauder-Annihilation || Sentinel-Watchman

12 - 5034 DtPS (49.66% Reduction) - -2.43% --- Operative-Concealment || Scoundrel-Scrapper

13 - 5058 DtPS (49.42% Reduction) - -2.92% --- Sorcerer-Corruption || Sage-Seer

14 - 5083 DtPS (49.17% Reduction) - -3.41% --- Sniper-Virulence || Gunslinger-Dirty Fighting

15 - 5083 DtPS (49.17% Reduction) - -3.41% --- Sniper-Marksman || Gunslinger-Sharpshooter

16 - 5083 DtPS (49.17% Reduction) - -3.41% --- Sniper-Engineering || Gunslinger-Saboteur

17 - 5143 DtPS (48.57% Reduction) - -4.64% --- Operative-Lethality || Scoundrel-Ruffian

18 - 5203 DtPS (47.97% Reduction) - -5.87% --- Assassin-Hatred || Shadow-Serenity

19 - 5273 DtPS (47.27% Reduction) - -7.29% --- Sorcerer-Madness || Sage-Balance

20 - 5493 DtPS (45.07% Reduction) - -11.77% --- Juggernaut-Rage || Guardian-Focus

21 - 5971 DtPS (40.29% Reduction) - -21.49% --- Powertech-Pyrotech || Vanguard-Plasmatech

[KShafe]

I noticed that for sentinels you are suggesting to go to acc stims... is there a case for mastery stims? or is acc really the best start?

 

thanks for the awesome work!

[Ryuku-sama]

I noticed that for sentinels you are suggesting to go to acc stims... is there a case for mastery stims? or is acc really the best start?

 

thanks for the awesome work!

 

There is only one case for mastery stim.. PvP. Else, Acc stims are better by a few DPS. And it has been that way since Acc stims came out.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Ryuku-sama

[brazilboy]

How do you see the rotations used on the spreadsheet?

[Goblin_Lackey]

Front Page Updated for 5.0.

[Ardarell_Solo]

Front Page Updated for 5.0.

 

Thank you very much for the effort you put into this once again, even though you're quitting the game. Much appreciated!!

 

I'm curious about the rotation you used to calculate Combat/Carnage DPS, but couldn't find it in your spreadsheet. Could you point me to the location of that info in the spreadsheet or, if rotations are not included there, post it here?

 

Thanks a lot!

Edited December 5, 2016 by Ardarell_Solo

[Ryuku-sama]

I'm currently in the process of double checking Bant's numbers by my own alternate way. When I am done (SoonTM), I'll post them both here and in a new thread. I also plan on doing necessary updates as things will change after January.

[Threjyan]

Front Page Updated for 5.0.

 

oh my..that operative class

 

i guess this was the push i need to start focusing more and more on my operative leaving my mara a bit back

 

that 10k plus..humm..so sexy

 

to the batmobile..dummy parse i mean!

[Threjyan]

Thank you very much for the effort you put into this once again, even though you're quitting the game. Much appreciated!!

 

I'm curious about the rotation you used to calculate Combat/Carnage DPS, but couldn't find it in your spreadsheet. Could you point me to the location of that info in the spreadsheet or, if rotations are not included there, post it here?

 

Thanks a lot!

 

talking about rotations..could it be optimal to start parsing on 2.5M dummy? because looking at some nim bosses...i mean...writhing horror is 12M HP

[kakiaszadba]

01 - 3391 DtPS (66.09% Reduction) - +31.0% --- Assassin-Deception || Shadow-Infiltration

 

I thought they wanted to get rid of hybrids

[Tsetso]

I thought they wanted to get rid of hybrids

 

That's most probably a bug. They have both innate 30% aoe dr and the utility so it's getting absurd.

[cashtwomuchos]

Lackey, you are a hero! Thanks for giving everyone this <3

[FlavivsAetivs]

Great info Bant!

However, the #1 Parsing Spec is Infiltration Shadow at 9840 DPS and I estimate upwards of 10K if not 11K in full 242 gear.

 

We've discussed before that your methodology can't properly account for Infiltration's rotation, granted. But I wanted to mention this anyways.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited December 5, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[Threjyan]

Great info Bant!

However, the #1 Parsing Spec is Infiltration Shadow at 9840 DPS and I estimate upwards of 10K if not 11K in full 242 gear.

 

We've discussed before that your methodology can't properly account for Infiltration's rotation, granted. But I wanted to mention this anyways.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

and i estimate, that a nerf is incoming

 

in any case, why are people still parsing with 1.5M dummy?

 

have they been inside of nim ops lately?