Optimal Stats For All 24 Disciplines, KOTFE Edition

[teclado]

Are Op / Scoundrel healers really that much better than Sorc / Sage and especially Merc / Mando? According to the numbers, an Op healer will put out more HPS on 3 targets than a Merc will on 8 targets. Really?!?!? I've read some speculation about a possible Op / Scoundrel healing bug that would benefit their numbers, but I'm not sure it would benefit to the extent shown below:

 

Healers vs Number of Targets:

 

 

Note: this is all estimation based on a preset rotation / priority list. Stats shown reflects 3 Target Optimal Stats.

 

 

Healers in Iokath MK-5, Tier 3: Legendary (242 ilvl)

 

 

Sorcerer - Corruption || Sage - Seer

43 APM | 8205 Endurance | 6745 Mastery (Stim) | 3793 Power

1876 Critical (6xE, 4xA, 2xC) | 1820 Alacrity (4xE, 10xA) | 0 Accuracy

1 Target: 11592+-384 HPS

2 Targets: 14575+-466 HPS

3 Targets: 16279+-539 HPS

4 Targets: 17202+-468 HPS

8 Targets: 21346+-572 HPS

 

 

Mercenary - Bodyguard || Commando - Combat Medic

44.5 APM | 8439 Endurance | 6745 Mastery (Stim) | 3793 Power

1999 Critical (3xE, 12xA, 2xC) | 1697 Alacrity (7xE, 2xA) | 0 Accuracy

1 Target: 10948+-717 HPS

2 Targets: 12960+-701 HPS

3 Targets: 14401+-694 HPS

4 Targets: 15546+-722 HPS

8 Targets: 17479+-764 HPS

 

 

Operative - Medicine || Scoundrel - Sawbones

41.4 APM | 8205 Endurance | 6745 Mastery (Stim) | 3793 Power

1949 Critical (5xE, 7xA, 2xC) | 1747 Alacrity (5xE, 7xA) | 0 Accuracy

1 Target: 12584+-715 HPS

2 Targets: 15553+-790 HPS

3 Targets: 20277+-750 HPS

4 Targets: 24969+-829 HPS

8 Targets: 31144+-596 HPS

 

 

[SchnellesWiesel]

All tanks have less defense with 234 than 230.

I believe, in your spreadsheet you have incorrect defense values for "mod" and "implant".

[Goblin_Lackey]

All tanks have less defense with 234 than 230.

I believe, in your spreadsheet you have incorrect defense values for "mod" and "implant".

 

Fixed. 234 Mods now have the correct (145) value associated with them (Implants are armoring+mod+enhancement). Since this also affected the power from Mods I redid and reposted the entire 234 ilvl. (spoiler: not much changed)

[SchnellesWiesel]

Thank you for your very fast response/fix.

[Goblin_Lackey]

Are Op / Scoundrel healers really that much better than Sorc / Sage and especially Merc / Mando? According to the numbers, an Op healer will put out more HPS on 3 targets than a Merc will on 8 targets. Really?!?!? I've read some speculation about a possible Op / Scoundrel healing bug that would benefit their numbers, but I'm not sure it would benefit to the extent shown below:

 

Healers vs Number of Targets:

 

 

Note: this is all estimation based on a preset rotation / priority list. Stats shown reflects 3 Target Optimal Stats.

 

 

Healers in Iokath MK-5, Tier 3: Legendary (242 ilvl)

 

 

Sorcerer - Corruption || Sage - Seer

43 APM | 8205 Endurance | 6745 Mastery (Stim) | 3793 Power

1876 Critical (6xE, 4xA, 2xC) | 1820 Alacrity (4xE, 10xA) | 0 Accuracy

1 Target: 11592+-384 HPS

2 Targets: 14575+-466 HPS

3 Targets: 16279+-539 HPS

4 Targets: 17202+-468 HPS

8 Targets: 21346+-572 HPS

 

 

Mercenary - Bodyguard || Commando - Combat Medic

44.5 APM | 8439 Endurance | 6745 Mastery (Stim) | 3793 Power

1999 Critical (3xE, 12xA, 2xC) | 1697 Alacrity (7xE, 2xA) | 0 Accuracy

1 Target: 10948+-717 HPS

2 Targets: 12960+-701 HPS

3 Targets: 14401+-694 HPS

4 Targets: 15546+-722 HPS

8 Targets: 17479+-764 HPS

 

 

Operative - Medicine || Scoundrel - Sawbones

41.4 APM | 8205 Endurance | 6745 Mastery (Stim) | 3793 Power

1949 Critical (5xE, 7xA, 2xC) | 1747 Alacrity (5xE, 7xA) | 0 Accuracy

1 Target: 12584+-715 HPS

2 Targets: 15553+-790 HPS

3 Targets: 20277+-750 HPS

4 Targets: 24969+-829 HPS

8 Targets: 31144+-596 HPS

 

 

It is because most of the Operative's heals are HoT based and AOE friendly. They can easily maintain two stacks of Kolto Probes on many targets (especially with Surgical Probe serving as a refresh). In addition to the probes they also have the AOE from Recuperative Nanotech as a high use ability And If that isn't enough, they have Kolto Waves available as well. All of the Heals are prefect for keeping a large number of people at an average level of health. Operatives are really good Raid healers for that reason while paired with a more Bursty second Healer. The model I put together really benefits this type of healing because I assume that the targets are all taking identical damage and have infinite life so there is no overhealing (so hps = ehps) and no one needs to quickly brought back to life. Mercs on the other hand are the opposite in someways, they really shine in Large Bursty Heals (think multiple Healing Scans during Supercharge). They also suffer from an overabundance of Single Target power which is great on Tanks, but not as useful when the group is taking equal amounts of damage. For AOE the have Progressive Scan (used on Cooldown even with a single target), Kolto Shells (for the purposes of my model it is assumed that the maximum number of shells out at once is the number of targets and each stack is used up at the maximum rate) and Kolto Missile which is relatively expensive and negatively impact energy if used too much.

 

So that was the comments on the limits of my model, the rest of the matter is that Operatives (and Sorcs) both got new discipline abilities that increased their healing output. Sorcerers got their coefficients nerfed which kept their total level of healing somewhat similar to how they were before (I think Bioware hates sorcerers, they also kneecapped the DPS specs for no reason). Operatives on the other hand did not get any nerfs. Mercenaries get nothing, removing their stance was considered by Bioware to be equal to the other healers getting new toys.

 

I also did not include the bugged Kolto Infusion. I looked at the text of it and checked the coefficients and decided against it. What that part of the Utility should be doing is removing the HoT portion of Kolto Infusion and replacing the entire ability with a single Heal that is equivalent to the original heal plus 7 of the 9 total ticks (a loss of HPS for a gain of an immediate heal the same size as Kolto Injection). That was before I knew about the bugged interaction with Kolto Probes, though to maintain maximum HPS, the probes should never fall off anyway. I try not to include Major Bugs like that though.

[teclado]

Thanks, Bant! That's very helpful.

[NeverLoseFaith]

Is 5.0 SWTOR Test Sheet accurate and updated?

 

About Sith Marauder Disciplines Enhancements / Augments / Crystals all that are suggestions or MUST for the char to roll? I mean I know that you need 110% accuracy etc.

 

And why Accuracy stim and not Mastery? Both have been tested and Accuracy is better?

Edited December 7, 2016 by NeverLoseFaith

[teclado]

And why Accuracy stim and not Mastery? Both have been tested and Accuracy is better?

Yes, acc is slightly better. See post #757, here:

Mainly because whats the point of having both? It made sense when the accuracy stim came out half way through 4.0 when people are already geared, but now there are there from the start and no one has any gear yet.

 

Also as usual: this post applies only to PVE, not PVP.

 

Accuracy goal for level 70 is 737 (actually 736.4)

Easiest way to get near that for all gear levels is to use 5 Augments and and Accuracy Stim (720 total) That way new gear doesn't matter with hitting that goal.

[Tythos]

And why Accuracy stim and not Mastery? Both have been tested and Accuracy is better?

 

Accuracy stim is better because it also grants a boost in Crit which is considered better than Mastery or Power. So if you gear yourself to the point that the Accuracy stim gives you just the right amount of Accuracy that you need, you'll see better results than if you used the Mastery stim.

 

Mastery stim could be better for PvP but this guide is strictly intended for PvE.

[Qwurdilu]

Question on game mechanics: if you choose to abandon alacrity, would you go for more crit, power or mainstat?

[DarthCognusSion]

Question on game mechanics: if you choose to abandon alacrity, would you go for more crit, power or mainstat?

 

i guess you would get crit til you hit the diminishing returns, then go for mastery. but really, you dont want to abandon alacrity ever

[teclado]

I'm pretty sure that Qwurdilu is thinking from a pvp perspective. I ran a zero alacrity and zero accuracy Fury Mara in early 4.0 with good success in pvp. I went for the diminishing returns cap on Crit and then went power beyond that. Of course this setup is horrible for sustained dps, but in pvp it's all about making the hits that you do get on the target do as much damage as possible.

 

So, moving this into some PVE line of thinking, suppose that you want to farm mobs to maximum effect in PVE (in other words, kill them as fast as possible), and you are willing to make a gear set that is aimed at only that goal (let's ignore level sync in this hypothetical). Let's also suppose that these mobs have an annoyingly large number of effects - stuns, knockbacks, roots, damage reduction buffs and debuffs. So, there's going to be a lot of target swapping, downtime, and disruptions to your rotation. For this scenario, would you not dial back the alacrity somewhat and put it into Crit instead? Especially for a melee class?

[Sphillipe]

Always loved this thread and have used it so many times, but I am wondering how accurate your 5.0a figures are. Seems they are mathematically based off PTS changes. Problem is, it seems like most of the PTS nerfs didn't make it to the live server. I've noted a few of my tooltip figures in 4.7 and rechecked them when 5.0 went live and no changes were reported. Like with my Madness Sorc which was supposed to get a 10% nerf to Death Field, yet my DF tooltip was reading the exact same figures I wrote down in 4.7. My Madness Sorc was also well ahead of the Arsenal Merc on my team in DPS, whom was better geared and had a solid rotation.

 

Also when I looked through the official 5.0 patch notes I didn't see many (if any) nerfs? Not saying you're wrong, just curious if maybe I am missing something here?

Edited December 12, 2016 by Sphillipe

[PiiTarr]

Just wanted to say thank you for all the work you've put into this thread. Sorry to see you go!

[Alec_Fortescue]

what's the story with pvp

[-TheDelta-]

what's the story with pvp

 

I think you have to ask someplace else around that, this thread has always been about PvE stats.

[Qwurdilu]

I'm pretty sure that Qwurdilu is thinking from a pvp perspective.

 

Actually i do play with tons of alacrity in pvp (because i abandon accuracy there) so its just some food for thoughts

Edited December 14, 2016 by Qwurdilu

[Wolandus]

It is said that in 240 gear optimal ACC is from 1 Enh (205) 3 augments (288) and stim (218). This only gives 711 acc and table says it should give 733. What am I missing?

[Threjyan]

It is said that in 240 gear optimal ACC is from 1 Enh (205) 3 augments (288) and stim (218). This only gives 711 acc and table says it should give 733. What am I missing?

 

i think stim is 240..at least thats my reading from the table

[Wolandus]

What is the name? I will double check when I get back home.

[JourrnoRush]

If we are doing pvp, would it be best to go for the max for our spec based on rating and then just throw it all into power since we don't need accuracy?

[brazilboy]

Can someone please explain why the spreasheet linked in the 1st post of this thread, which supposedly has updated 5.0 values, shows different DPS rankings than the 1st post itself?

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GtgkOZDgcA3dlBjdoLUzg02zNl9_5fvCU48iY-P0vv0/edit?usp=sharing

 

For example: Bant's first post was updated on 12/2/2016 and shows Rage Jugg significantly ahead of Vengeance in the dps rankings. But then if you click the link to the spreadsheet, the spreadsheet seems to show the opposite (for DPS) -- that is, it shows Vengenace materially ahead of Rage dps.

 

Any help on this?

Edited December 18, 2016 by brazilboy

[Sovelis]

So what are the go to enhancements for tanks to achieve these stats? Is everyone still using Bastion/Bulwark or the low endurance ones now?

[Goblin_Lackey]

Is 5.0 SWTOR Test Sheet accurate and updated?

 

About Sith Marauder Disciplines Enhancements / Augments / Crystals all that are suggestions or MUST for the char to roll? I mean I know that you need 110% accuracy etc.

 

And why Accuracy stim and not Mastery? Both have been tested and Accuracy is better?

 

 

The "5.0 SWTOR Test Sheet" will always be more accurate than the post on the forums. That is because that google doc is the method used to generate all of the data and any recent changes are reflected there first and only later updated to the SWTOR.com post.

 

Every combination of gear on the front page is a suggestion. There is no actual way to be able to tell the difference between gear setups in game. There is too much RNG in how damage calculated to be able to compare the dps outputs to a sub-1 dps level.

It is pretty much impossible to tell the difference when the stat totals are all within 200 or so points of the optimal levels.

 

As for the Accuracy Stim, I ran my tests (which cycles through all possible stat combinations and returns the combination that gives the highest average DPS) with both stims and accuracy returned DPS totals that were higher.

[Goblin_Lackey]

Can someone please explain why the spreasheet linked in the 1st post of this thread, which supposedly has updated 5.0 values, shows different DPS rankings than the 1st post itself?

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GtgkOZDgcA3dlBjdoLUzg02zNl9_5fvCU48iY-P0vv0/edit?usp=sharing

 

For example: Bant's first post was updated on 12/2/2016 and shows Rage Jugg significantly ahead of Vengeance in the dps rankings. But then if you click the link to the spreadsheet, the spreadsheet seems to show the opposite (for DPS) -- that is, it shows Vengenace materially ahead of Rage dps.

 

Any help on this?

 

 

Its because I was doing some double checks on the rotations and found that the Chilling Scream Rotation for Rage was not actually playable. That is because I forgot to check to see if the rotation still works without the cooldown reduction from Overpower. It had worked previously when I had Retaliation in that slot.

 

So on the spreadsheet, the rotation is now shown without chilling scream.

 

I haven't gotten around to doing a full update on the post, will likely do one last one at the end of the month with all of the updates..