Optimal Stats For All 24 Disciplines, KOTFE Edition

[Suplax]

Is this guide correct ?

I've followed and I can't hardly pull 5.4k at my Sin Deception.

[Steefr]

It's not really a guide. Just a suggestion for optimal stats for max dps, based on a certain rotation in an endless simulation. It's also restricted by a few assumptions. That said, in most cases the stats are indeed the best or a great place to start from. Best look elsewhere if you want a "true" guide.

[LudhaninRolgge]

Is this guide correct ?

I've followed and I can't hardly pull 5.4k at my Sin Deception.

 

Without your actual gear and stat distribution and an example of parse, nobody can help. But if you want help, I'd strongly advise you to head to the sin subforum.

[Goblin_Lackey]

Update: 6/1/2016

• Updated to include the changes to Corruption || Seer from patch 4.5 (Rotation and Coefficients)
  
• All Disciplines have been recalculated for 4.5
  

 

 

Non-Game Patch Related Changes and bug fixes 6/1/2016:

• Marauder - Annihilation: Fixed issues with Swift Demise, redistributed Berserk,and 2 set bonus. (thanks Ryuku-sama)
  
• Marauder - Fury: Fixed APM count, fixed error on Raging Burst critical multiplier, fixed execute issue , redistributed 2 set bonus. (thanks Ryuku-sama)
  
• Juggernaut - Vengeance: Modified Rotation. (thanks GrandlordMenace)
  
• Juggernaut - Rage: Fixed issues with Retaliation ability type, redistributed Heightened Power and 2 set bonus. (thanks Ryuku-sama)
  
• Sorcerer - Madness: Fixed error made with Disintegration. (thanks Ryuku-sama)
  
• Tanks: Fixed error in DtPS calculation that applied the Internal/Elemental damage reduction buff from healers twice.
  
• Tanks: Fixed pointer error that may have imported some incorrect defensive stats.
  

 

 

Quick comment on Corruption || Seer change::

To get to a resource neutral healing rotation with the new Force costs, it will now require 25% more Consuming Darkness || Vindicates than before (now requiring an average of 5 per every 4 Innervate, up from 1 to 1). This will come at the expense of using Revivification as often as before.

 

The increases in healing amounts are approximately balanced out by the reduction in bonus bonus healing.

 

By my estimates, it is a 6%-7% loss in overall HPS for the healing output for the Sorcerer || Sage.

[serban_zaha]

I think you should compare your numbers to these.

http://parsely.io/parser/leaderboard/all/engineering/1500000/all/live/0/

http://parsely.io/parser/operations/corruptor-zero/8/HM/dps/all/engineering/all/live/0/

http://parsely.io/parser/operations/grobthok/8/HM/dps/all/engineering/all/live/0/

http://parsely.io/parser/operations/torque/8/HM/dps/all/engineering/all/live/0/

http://parsely.io/parser/operations/the-underlurker/8/HM/dps/all/engineering/all/live/0/

 

Hmm. There are a lot of adds in a lot of those fights. Those underlurker numbers made a lot more sense, for full 224 gear especially with some very heavy crit focus. But the rest there are a lot of adds. Plasma Probe, orbital strike and Supressive fire, with crits, on a large group, can really, really pad your DPS. I'd like to see these same fights, but on a single target from a single source, as DPS. That's my problem with a lot of these parsers. They factor in all the outgoing damage and DPS and not just the damage going on a single target (the boss). So while I love seeing these high numbers, I can't help but feel their padded.

Edited June 2, 2016 by serban_zaha

[serban_zaha]

Well if this is you maining an engineering sniper, i'm sorry to say but you're not exactly doing it right. Snipe is just absolutely useless for engineering, costs way too much energy for what it does and should never be used. Also no mention of orbital strike which is your hardest hitting filler, even on single target. I mean, research your own damn spec first. Also with full 220 gear i'm pretty sure you can get 6,4+ with engi so yeah.

 

The biggest problem with Orbital Strike is that it's 20 energy with a 1 second induction (not factoring for alacrity). With my current gear, it's 6k damage over 9 seconds. Snipe is 15 energy, 1.5 second induction (not factoring for my alacrity) and in my current gear is 5k damage, excluding crit. From a Damage per Energy standpoint, Snipe is much better, coming in at 333.3 per point of energy, versus OS's 300. Yes, I know that Plasma Probe debuffs enemies in it to take more AoE damage, but it's not by enough to make it worth it, from my perspective and experience. Then the second issue is that with a one second induction on Orbital Strike, you use 20 energy much sooner than you would use the 15 from snipe. Meaning that it impacts your energy pool much more than snipe. As is, once I start seeing my pool drop to 60-70%, I switch to rifle shot until Target Aquired is back up (on set bonus) for the 15 energy back. And when I say parse 5.9k, I mean parse that on just the boss. Not DPS output but DPS on the boss specifically. Large groups pad AoE statistics because that's DPS output on that many targets. I will use Orbital strike if there are adds around the boss. But otherwise, I will go the Snipe/Rifle Shot route to conserve energy. I like keeping Adrenaline Probe up in case I need to AoE adds down quickly, and the AoEs add up quickly, energy cost wise.

[WiththeForc]

Hmm. There are a lot of adds in a lot of those fights. Those underlurker numbers made a lot more sense, for full 224 gear especially with some very heavy crit focus. But the rest there are a lot of adds. Plasma Probe, orbital strike and Supressive fire, with crits, on a large group, can really, really pad your DPS. I'd like to see these same fights, but on a single target from a single source, as DPS. That's my problem with a lot of these parsers. They factor in all the outgoing damage and DPS and not just the damage going on a single target (the boss). So while I love seeing these high numbers, I can't help but feel their padded.

 

Psst, click on one of the snipers parses, go to damage done, look at the damage for each individual target, gg

[serban_zaha]

Psst, click on one of the snipers parses, go to damage done, look at the damage for each individual target, gg

 

I mean take an absolute single target fight, like Annihilator Droid from EV

http://parsely.io/parser/operations/annihilation-droid/8/HM/dps/all/engineering/all/live/0/

Karragga. There are a few adds, but nothing amazing

http://parsely.io/parser/operations/karagga-the-unyielding/8/HM/dps/all/engineering/all/live/0/

The Dread Guards for TFB

http://parsely.io/parser/operations/dread-guards/8/HM/dps/all/engineering/all/live/0/

Nefra DF

http://parsely.io/parser/operations/nefra/8/HM/dps/all/engineering/all/live/0/

These are fights with no or next to no adds. And those numbers make much much more sense. Anything over 6.6k really isn't a realistic number.

[WiththeForc]

I mean take an absolute single target fight, like Annihilator Droid from EV

http://parsely.io/parser/operations/annihilation-droid/8/HM/dps/all/engineering/all/live/0/

Karragga. There are a few adds, but nothing amazing

http://parsely.io/parser/operations/karagga-the-unyielding/8/HM/dps/all/engineering/all/live/0/

The Dread Guards for TFB

http://parsely.io/parser/operations/dread-guards/8/HM/dps/all/engineering/all/live/0/

Nefra DF

http://parsely.io/parser/operations/nefra/8/HM/dps/all/engineering/all/live/0/

These are fights with no or next to no adds. And those numbers make much much more sense. Anything over 6.6k really isn't a realistic number.

 

And in all those fights the top parses still use either 0 or 1 snipe.

 

Also, seven wants to ask "why you aren't using frag grenade over snipe because by your reasoning frag grenade should be like every gcd possible"

Edited June 2, 2016 by WiththeForc

[dipstik]

awesome work as always. is this the modeled sorc heal rotation?

 

Rotation:

Innervate > Innervate* > Consuming Darkness > Filler > Resurgence > Roaming Mend

Innervate > Innervate* > Consuming Darkness > Filler > Resurgence > Static Barrier

Filler = Consuming Darkness > Revivification > Static Barrier > Dark Infusion > Dark Heal

[Goblin_Lackey]

awesome work as always. is this the modeled sorc heal rotation?

 

Rotation:

Innervate > Innervate* > Consuming Darkness > Filler > Resurgence > Roaming Mend

Innervate > Innervate* > Consuming Darkness > Filler > Resurgence > Static Barrier

Filler = Consuming Darkness > Revivification > Static Barrier > Dark Infusion > Dark Heal

 

That is the rotation I used as the concept for calculation.

For actual ability activation, I based every thing off of Innervate activation:

Innervate usage = 8.48s = 2.4s + 4*1.5s + 0.5s/6 (the 6 is from the ratio of Dark Infustions)

Dark Infusion = 50.9s = 6*Innervate (expensive heal)

Consuming Darkness = 6.79s = 1.25 * Innervate (determined by balancing the force usage)

Resurgence = 8.48s = Innervate

Roaming Mend = 16.97s = Innervate * 2

Dark Heal = 33.93s = Innervate * 4

Revivification = 25.45s = Innervate * 3

Static Barrier = 16.97s = Innervate * 2

*Bonus Heal: Unnatural Preservation = 30s

 

I know first hand that this is not a realistic depiction of what a healer has to do in a raid, but it is a best estimation of maximizing the HPS potential while maintaining a force neutral rotation. Feel free to shoot holes in it.

[Steefr]

The biggest problem with Orbital Strike is that it's 20 energy with a 1 second induction (not factoring for alacrity). With my current gear, it's 6k damage over 9 seconds. Snipe is 15 energy, 1.5 second induction (not factoring for my alacrity) and in my current gear is 5k damage, excluding crit. From a Damage per Energy standpoint, Snipe is much better, coming in at 333.3 per point of energy, versus OS's 300. Yes, I know that Plasma Probe debuffs enemies in it to take more AoE damage, but it's not by enough to make it worth it, from my perspective and experience. Then the second issue is that with a one second induction on Orbital Strike, you use 20 energy much sooner than you would use the 15 from snipe. Meaning that it impacts your energy pool much more than snipe. As is, once I start seeing my pool drop to 60-70%, I switch to rifle shot until Target Aquired is back up (on set bonus) for the 15 energy back. And when I say parse 5.9k, I mean parse that on just the boss. Not DPS output but DPS on the boss specifically. Large groups pad AoE statistics because that's DPS output on that many targets. I will use Orbital strike if there are adds around the boss. But otherwise, I will go the Snipe/Rifle Shot route to conserve energy. I like keeping Adrenaline Probe up in case I need to AoE adds down quickly, and the AoEs add up quickly, energy cost wise.

 

Whut ? i mean, i really dont wanna be mean here but just nonsense mate. Idk what kind of weird gear level you have but what you said is just not true. Just tested it real quick on a dummy for you: did 20 snipers and 5 orbital strikes: both had 50% crit. Dmg Orbital on average: 12,444k. Snipe on average: 5,467. Do you see the difference ?

 

I mean even the tooltip gives more dmg to orbital (7k vs 5,3k). Gear level is irrelevant as on whatever gear level you have orbital will still do a lot more dmg. It's your single best filler in terms of dmg per activation. Yes it cost more energy, it also has a longer cd so you only use it once every 2 blocks. Fillers in terms of damage: Orbital, Corrosive Dart, frag grenade. I guess you're trusting on your tooltip for damage values for your abilities. Please don't do that, they are notoriously inaccurate. Aka it's bs. Dont use snipe, i'm begging you man.

[Memo-]

That's my problem with a lot of these parsers. They factor in all the outgoing damage and DPS and not just the damage going on a single target (the boss). So while I love seeing these high numbers, I can't help but feel their padded.

 

Dealing additional damage to targets that need to die is not padding. If you can incorporate that into your single target rotation without actually purposefully doing anything for extra aoe (so Engineering, Virulence, Lethality, Vengeance, Annihilation (DST), Pyrotech, Lightning, Madness, Hatred), that's all effective dps, not padded dps. Can you compare it to a pure single target parse? Maybe not, but it still doesn't mean that it's falsified data. It's accurate for that encounter. Fights where you actually need to use an AoE rotation are of course a different matter entirely.

 

The only fights where you can actually unnecessarily pad your dps are Soa, Heavy Fabricator, Stormcaller & Firebrand (shields), Writhing Horror (burn phase adds), Dread Guard (any damage done to secondary targets is wasted in 1st and 2nd phase), Thrasher (Firebug), Cartel Warlords (unless you can manage not taking under the rebuff limit), Nefra (droids), Brontes (lightning tentacles), Calphayus (excessive destroying of crystals in 2nd phase, or last phase which is pure padding), Bulo and Revan. Also, on Torque, Ruugar and Sword Squadron there are targets you can hit for extra dps which doesn't amount to anything. So, at most 15 encounters out of 48.

[LudhaninRolgge]

Please don't do that, they are notoriously inaccurate. Aka it's bs. Dont use snipe, i'm begging you man.

 

Tooltips are accurate ! I trust it when it says my Psychokinetic Blast hits for 3 whole damage !

[Goblin_Lackey]

Just from a theoretical point of view; using Orbital strike for Engineering as your filler on a single target will do more damage per point of energy spent than Snipe.

 

With the following gear:

6375 Endurance | 5394 Mastery (3xA) | 2850 Power

1275 Critical (3xE, 7xA, 2xC) | 986 Alacrity (5xE, 2xA) | 700 Accuracy (2xE, 2xA, Stim)

 

Orbital Strike:

Cost: 20

Average total Damage per use: 11791.8 dmg

Damage per Energy: 589.6 dmg/Energy

 

Snipe:

Cost: 15

Average total Damage per use: 4920.6 dmg

Damage per Energy: 328 dmg/Energy

 

Proof:

 

 

FR uptime = 31.57%; DA uptime = 28.79%

Avg Bonus Damage = 1955.4 = 1.05*(.2*[5394 + 1.05*966*.3157 Mastery] + .23*[2850 + 966*.2879 Power])

Avg Bonus Tech Damage = 2735.9 = 1.05*(.2*[5394 + 1.05*966*.3157 Mastery] + .23*[2850 + 1616 + 1616 + 966*.2879 Power])

StdHealth = 4465

Average Weapon Damage = 1211.5=(1090+1333)/2

All relevant debuffs active: Armor, Tech, Ranged, AOE

Critical Chance: 39.12% = 0.3*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^(([1275 Critical]/65)/0.8))+0.2*(1-(1-(0.01/0.2))^(([5394 + 1.05*966*.3157 Mastery]/65)/5.5))+0.10 +.01

Critical Bonus: 67.93% = 0.3*(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^(([1275 Critical]/65)/0.8))+0.50 +.01

Boss Armor: 10874

Avg Armor Penetration: 1.43% = 15% * 10s/105s

->Boss Damage reduction = 34.33% =1/(1+(800+240*65)/((10874)*(1-.2)*(1-0.0143)))

 

 

Orbital Strike:

Ability Type: Tech

Damage Type: Elemental (ignores Armor)

Bonus Coeffiecient: 0.7

StdHealthmin: 0.07

StdHealthmax: 0.07

Hits: 3

Cost:20

Critical Chance bonus: +10% (Field Command)

Critical Damage Bonus: +10% (Experimental Explosives)

Damage Bonus: +10% (Explosive Engineering)

Avg Set Damage Bonus: 1% = 2% * 15s/30s

Debuffs: Tech, Armor, AOE

 

Average Hit = 2842.5 = (.7*2735.9 + .07*4465)*(1 + .1 + .01 +.05)*(1 + .1)

Average Crit = 5057.7 = 1866.7 * (1+.6793+.1)

Critical Chance = 49.12%

Average Damage Per use = 11791.8 = 3*(2842.5*(1-.4912)+5057.7*.4912)

Damage per energy spent: 589.6 = 11791.8/20

 

 

Snipe:

Ability Type: Ranged

Damage Type: Weapon (Energy)

Weapon Coeffiecent: 1.16

Bonus Coeffiecient: 1.74

StdHealthmin: .174

StdHealthmax: .174

Hits: 1

Cost:15

Avg Set Damage Bonus: 1% = 2% * 15s/30s

Debuffs: Ranged, Armor

 

Average Hit = 3887.48 = (.7*2735.9 + .07*4465)*(1 + .01 +.05)*(1-.3433)

Average Crit = 6528.3 = 3887.48 * (1+.6793)

Critical Chance = 39.12%

Average Damage Per use = 4920.6 = 3887.5*(1-.3912)+6528.3*.3912

Damage per energy spent: 328.0 = 4920.6/15

 

 

 

 

Conclusion: In Engineering, never ever use Snipe.

 

Virulence will never either; but that's for a different reason. (Lethal Shot)

Edited June 3, 2016 by Goblin_Lackey

[LudhaninRolgge]

That is the rotation I used as the concept for calculation.

For actual ability activation, I based every thing off of Innervate activation:

Innervate usage = 8.48s = 2.4s + 4*1.5s + 0.5s/6 (the 6 is from the ratio of Dark Infustions)

Dark Infusion = 50.9s = 6*Innervate (expensive heal)

Consuming Darkness = 6.79s = 1.25 * Innervate (determined by balancing the force usage)

Resurgence = 8.48s = Innervate

Roaming Mend = 16.97s = Innervate * 2

Dark Heal = 33.93s = Innervate * 4

Revivification = 25.45s = Innervate * 3

Static Barrier = 16.97s = Innervate * 2

*Bonus Heal: Unnatural Preservation = 30s

 

I know first hand that this is not a realistic depiction of what a healer has to do in a raid, but it is a best estimation of maximizing the HPS potential while maintaining a force neutral rotation. Feel free to shoot holes in it.

 

I assume you ran all your magic based on patch notes adjusted costs, but in-game costs are not the same. For example Dark Infusion costs 41 force instead of 45 and it's not the only one.

[Goblin_Lackey]

I assume you ran all your magic based on patch notes adjusted costs, but in-game costs are not the same. For example Dark Infusion costs 41 force instead of 45 and it's not the only one.

 

That is because all Sorcerers have a -10% force cost to all force abilities. (Electric Induction)

[LudhaninRolgge]

That is because all Sorcerers have a -10% force cost to all force abilities. (Electric Induction)

 

I'm confused now because Innervate is 60 force as stated in the patch notes. Shouldn't it be 54 then ?

 

Edit : I just double checked. Static Barrier costs 26 force where it should cost 40, Dark heal costs 58 force instead of 63, and Roaming Mend 49 instead of 58. Everything costs less than what it's supposed to except Innervate, Dark Infusion and Revivification.

Edited June 4, 2016 by LudhaninRolgge

[Suplax]

I would REALLY like to see a parse of Sin Deception hitting for almost 6,3k DPS in 220 gear like it says in this guide

I call bullsh**

Edited June 5, 2016 by Suplax

[Steefr]

Again: simulation and gear advice, not a guide. Read the thing, read what assumptions he makes. Understand it or ask questions, dont just say it's ******** cause you didn't take the time to actually read it completely.

 

Secondly if we assume that the difference between full 224 gear and full 220 gear is about 250 dps, which i think would be fair, then there are quite a few people who can manage what you claim to be bull ****. Check deception on parsely, about 10 parses that range from 6,7 to slightly under 6,6. Let's assume those are all 224 gear, so subtract 250 dps= 6,3 or higher. And again: it's simulated dps, it's not a parse. It's apm is quite literally superhuman and there are a number of assumptions that dont hold true when compared to dummy parsing.

 

Also just to be sure: full 220 gear means full 220 gear from ops, not comms cause those are bad. Also apply armor reduction module before parsing. And let's try to ask more questions next time shall we ? Mindlessly calling bs on stuff you cant do, doesn't exactly achieve miracles now does it ?

[Suplax]

Again: simulation and gear advice, not a guide. Read the thing, read what assumptions he makes. Understand it or ask questions, dont just say it's ******** cause you didn't take the time to actually read it completely.

 

Secondly if we assume that the difference between full 224 gear and full 220 gear is about 250 dps, which i think would be fair, then there are quite a few people who can manage what you claim to be bull ****. Check deception on parsely, about 10 parses that range from 6,7 to slightly under 6,6. Let's assume those are all 224 gear, so subtract 250 dps= 6,3 or higher. And again: it's simulated dps, it's not a parse. It's apm is quite literally superhuman and there are a number of assumptions that dont hold true when compared to dummy parsing.

 

Also just to be sure: full 220 gear means full 220 gear from ops, not comms cause those are bad. Also apply armor reduction module before parsing. And let's try to ask more questions next time shall we ? Mindlessly calling bs on stuff you cant do, doesn't exactly achieve miracles now does it ?

 

Well , I stand corrected sir.

I checked parsely and actually there is deception with 6.7k dps

But comparing mine log (5.9k dps) with another person who hit 6.7k dps I can only assume they are not using the stats recommended at this guide.

Check mine

http://parsely.io/parser/view/179497

And then check his

http://parsely.io/parser/view/164280/0

 

We have almost the same number in hits in each ability , and there is not much difference in the rotation.

[Greezt]

Deception parses are notorious for being extremely dependent on RNG. He had more crits than you, doesn't mean that his gearing was any different. You really can't draw any conclusions from one parse

 

 

Also, compare APMs... He probably has one more alacrity augment in place of a crit one, and got lucky.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Greezt

[T_T_P]

Deception parses are notorious for being extremely dependent on RNG. He had more crits than you, doesn't mean that his gearing was any different. You really can't draw any conclusions from one parse

 

 

Also, compare APMs... He probably has one more alacrity augment in place of a crit one, and got lucky.

 

All the parses on Parsely are lucky ones and also my stat distribution is different compared to Bant's calculations, it's not just one augment swapped to another.

[Suplax]

All the parses on Parsely are lucky ones and also my stat distribution is different compared to Bant's calculations, it's not just one augment swapped to another.

 

Ohhh it's you man xD

I've created a char in Red Eclipse just to talk with you, and sent you and mail earlier.

So please , share your stats with me , I love my sin deception but can't go NiM like this ><"

 

Because even IF it's luck , from my 5,9k dps to yours 6,7k dps... that would be A LOT of luck.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Suplax

[T_T_P]

Ohhh it's you man xD

I've created a char in Red Eclipse just to talk with you, and sent you and mail earlier.

So please , share your stats with me , I love my sin deception but can't go NiM like this ><"

 

Because even IF it's luck , from my 5,9k dps to yours 6,7k dps... that would be A LOT of luck.

 

I hope you understand but sharing my stats would not help you much and if you are already using Bants stat distribution then the difference would be minimal at best. There are good guides out there like those on Dulfy. Take your time reading through them, unless you already have, and then stop to think if you're really doing what they suggests you to do. Study other peoples parses and see what they are doing and try to pick up things you could improve yourself on because stats alone won't get you where you'd want to be.