Level synch = death of SWTOR

[Elendor]

If you don't like this change, do this: stay sub to get kotfe, then unsub. When you do this, they will ask you why you unsub, tell them that is because of this downscale and play as pref.

 

I will do this. I will sub when they finish rest of the chapters and unsub again. Then I will play as pref.

 

If you want to let them rethink this decision, you must vote with your money.

 

My 3 cents.

Have a nice day

[Bakakiba]

how about you guy talk about the P2W crew skills crap?!:mad::mad::mad:

 

How about you go back into your own thread on the subject...everyone misses you in there.

[PSVEindhoven]

how about you guy talk about the P2W crew skills crap?!:mad::mad::mad:

 

Because it really really really really isn't P2W?

[MillionsKNives]

I really don't need anyone to agree with me, but the hysterical fanaticism you seem to be condoning is what kills really good improvements to an already watered down game. This level sync will not be a big deal because as has already been demonstrated, players will still be OP enough to do most of the things they want to do. You will be able to solo heroics if you want. Trash will not be a problem. etc.

 

But it also means that things that were not meant to be solo'ed are back in line like WBs. And mentoring new players, the real benefit will actually be a reality. Other games like EQ2 have this in place and it is a great success.

 

No, there is no damage here. I'm not sure why you think this is just another option taken away from players. It really isn't at all. Players can still play the way they want, but they won't be in god mode.

 

BW, don't capitulate to this fear and hand-wringing. Launch it as is, then come back then come back and evaluate things later.

 

My guess is that think\gs will calm down as we head toward the holiday season and this will be only relevant to forum warriors. Everyone else will have moved on.

 

The fact that you're still OP is actually a negative. What's the point of being down leveled for mentoring or for challenge if I'm still overpowered? So I'm still murdering mobs left and right, but yet have all the downsides with being that level, like aggro radius and getting knocked off my speeder. So then what exactly is the point? To make flashpoints and world bosses only kind-of-but-still-not-quite-trivial?

[ZavienUK]

That's it? Over 1200 posts on the subject, and BioWare's "big" move is to combine all the threads? Nothing about, "expect some more information and clarification on this obviously controversial issue on Friday"?

 

While I'm asking, when ARE we going to get some serious information on the game changes? October 19th in the patch notes, AFTER everyone has paid subs for the last 4 months, so if subscribers decide to bail, it'll just be, "Hey, thanks for the cash, suckers!" ?

 

Calm down, a moderator is clearly not the right person to respond, he/she was just cleaning up the forum. Because of the contentious nature of this change, a moderator is not going to provide a rash response. There is no doubt they will be aware of this thread and feedback, and hopefully the right people (community manager) will come forward with a considered response in time.

Edited October 1, 2015 by ZavienUK

[Frenesi]

Please help me understand your mentality...

 

Bioware is forcing a system upon everyone, that you even confess, the vast majority would never toggle on if it were optional. How the **** is that a good thing???

 

It's bad thing for majority becouse majority never wants changes. And majority will always play in the way that takes least effort possible. You guys are actually a shining example of it.

 

Still, majority is often wrong. Becouse instead of exploring the option and making educated statement, majority will go with the way of least effort possible - in this case ***** and complain with no substance to it. And no, I'm not talking about you specifically - you may have actual reason to hate the system in question.

 

Sometimes you need to force something down people's throats for them to think for a moment and say - "you know, it's actually a good thing!" This may be the case here, this may be not. I believe it is.

[TUXs]

I really don't need anyone to agree with me, but the hysterical fanaticism you seem to be condoning is what kills really good improvements to an already watered down game. This level sync will not be a big deal because as has already been demonstrated, players will still be OP enough to do most of the things they want to do. You will be able to solo heroics if you want. Trash will not be a problem. etc.

 

But it also means that things that were not meant to be solo'ed are back in line like WBs. And mentoring new players, the real benefit will actually be a reality. Other games like EQ2 have this in place and it is a great success.

 

No, there is no damage here. I'm not sure why you think this is just another option taken away from players. It really isn't at all. Players can still play the way they want, but they won't be in god mode.

 

BW, don't capitulate to this fear and hand-wringing. Launch it as is, then come back then come back and evaluate things later.

 

My guess is that think\gs will calm down as we head toward the holiday season and this will be only relevant to forum warriors. Everyone else will have moved on.

Hysterical fanaticism wut??? Are you just trying to be insulting?

 

We weren't supposed to solo WB's according to who? You? Bioware has never said that...in fact, it's moronic to assume they weren't intended to be solo'd in time, since ya know, they kinda built this entire game and they were the ones who built it entirely around leveling to begin with.

 

Bioware...don't be ridiculous. You don't drop this on players 3-weeks prior to it happening. This is a monstrous change to how entire segments of players have been playing your game for 4 years now...discuss it with your customers and listen to them. It's a fine idea, but extremely poorly implemented. Make this optional...make it a toggle, just like 12xXP was.

[TUXs]

Sometimes you need to force something down people's throats for them to think for a moment and say - "you know, it's actually a good thing!" This may be the case here, this may be not. I believe it is.

 

Ah...so PvP too right? You should be forced to PvP, since some of us players like it...those who don't like it just haven't been forced to do it enough...right?

[DJZod]

How would players being set at the same maximum level / maximum stats kill OWPVP?

 

Personally, I thought it was already dead.

 

If that's not the case, then I suppose it will mean that you won't be able to find someone 30 levels below you to bully. That's not that big of a deal though since the only thing being lowered is your stats. You still have all of your abilities, all of your passive boosts from your spec tree, etc. High level players will still be able to pound on lower levels player, assuming the high level player isn't completely incompetent. This, of course, isn't entirely out of the question since, if they were competent, they wouldn't need to find someone 30 levels below them to fight.

[Frenesi]

Hysterical fanaticism wut??? Are you just trying to be insulting?

 

We weren't supposed to solo WB's according to who? You? Bioware has never said that...in fact, it's moronic to assume they weren't intended to be solo'd in time, since ya know, they kinda built this entire game and they were the ones who built it entirely around leveling to begin with.

 

Bioware...don't be ridiculous. You don't drop this on players 3-weeks prior to it happening. This is a monstrous change to how entire segments of players have been playing your game for 4 years now...discuss it with your customers and listen to them. It's a fine idea, but extremely poorly implemented. Make this optional...make it a toggle, just like 12xXP was.

 

We aren't supposed to solo WB becouse it's a group content designed as such. You know why? When you solo it overleveled, you get pile of useless junk for your efforts. If it was meant to be overleveled, then you would get matching reward for doing it.

 

Really, are you questioning the nature of group content? Are you implying that entire game should be played with greyed mobs? Becouse you look stupid while doing so.

 

And for the love of god, stop this optional BS. I think i already explained why it shouldn't happen.

[Frenesi]

Ah...so PvP too right? You should be forced to PvP, since some of us players like it...those who don't like it just haven't been forced to do it enough...right?

 

You don's see the difference between game mod (arguably different game) and leveling system? Wow.

 

Also, while we are at it, do you complain about PVP forced on you in Counter-Strike?

[Quraswren]

Ah...so PvP too right? You should be forced to PvP, since some of us players like it...those who don't like it just haven't been forced to do it enough...right?

 

and operations too.

 

Whats that? You don't like to do operations. Well, to "F"ing bad really because we need to force it down your throat so you will know it's good for you. So later you can say, "This is a good thing."

 

However, wouldn't it be better to let gamers decide if they want to be down scaled? Decide how they want to play that old world content at this point? Kinda like how they get to choose PVP or running operations or not.

 

The answer is yes. They should get to decide if they want to be down scaled or not. Just like if they want to step into PVP or not. It's a fairly simply concept in design really. Create something players in an MMO have a choice to do. IF no one wants to do it, well that should tell you something right there. Forcing them isn't helping.

[Corvald]

Looking at this objectively there has been an issue ever since they consolidated planetary comms. To buy endgame level gear (as crap as the comm gear is) used to require running missions close to level to reward comms to buy it. Since the comms consolidation, players can now run through heroics in lower level content much faster than running dailys. This devalues the comms. Level sync would address this.

 

I could see it be made optional if running quests over leveled with scaling off rewarded nothing at all (i.e. no comms, no gear, no credits, no xp). Then lower level content can be run in god mode for no reward or scaled for a reward.

[azudelphi]

However, wouldn't it be better to let gamers decide if they want to be down scaled? Decide how they want to play that old world content at this point? Kinda like how they get to choose PVP or running operations or not.

Until more information is released... who knows? Can't say it would be better or worse.

[SebastiaanZ]

Hi All,

 

Given the similarity between several of the level-sync threads, we've decided to merge them into a single thread here. Please consider that if you want to discuss a topic, and if it's already very similar to another thread, to simply post in the thread that's already active rather than creating a new thread discussing the same topic. Keeping posts in a single thread makes for an easier time of reading for all.

 

And, as always, while we encourage constructive criticism and civil debate, please keep it respectful.

 

Best,

CommunitySupport

 

Instead of an automated response, maybe get some actual input from the Devs that they noticed this thread and that they should seriously consider the request being made? Make it optional, and do it before its to late please.

 

And yes I am not unsubbing after all ... loving this game to much, despite the flawed developer team.

[azudelphi]

Instead of an automated response, maybe get some actual input from the Devs that they noticed this thread and that they should seriously consider the request being made? Make it optional, and do it before its to late please.

 

And yes I am not unsubbing after all ... loving this game to much, despite the flawed developer team.

Forum clean up is handled by forum moderators, not the community managers or devs... come on...

[Frenesi]

You know, nevermind, just ignore me. There are people who like the change and can support it, there are people who don't like change and can support it. And there are you, spitting nonesense like above. Keep going

[ImmortalLowlife]

Ah...so PvP too right? You should be forced to PvP, since some of us players like it...those who don't like it just haven't been forced to do it enough...right?

 

I was just thinking tha same thing cuz.... What if they decided the only way to get folks to PvP is to make it mandatory. Let's make EVERYWHERE PvP areas. The only place you're safe is inside your stronghold & on the character select screen. Starter planets, fleet, everywhere is now a PvP area. How well you think that would go over?

[TUXs]

We aren't supposed to solo WB becouse it's a group content designed as such. You know why? When you solo it overleveled, you get pile of useless junk for your efforts. If it was meant to be overleveled, then you would get matching reward for doing it.

 

Really, are you questioning the nature of group content? Are you implying that entire game should be played with greyed mobs? Becouse you look stupid while doing so.

 

And for the love of god, stop this optional BS. I think i already explained why it shouldn't happen.

 

Ah...insults and calling me stupid...how childish.

 

I think any twit with a speck of common sense would realize that a level 10 WB on the starting planets, might be able to be soloable by the time a player reached level cap at 50...without a group.

 

And what the hell are you talking about? Am I questioning group content?? Of course not...nor have I implied what you are imagining I did.

 

You haven't explained anything lol...you simply state it should be...give REASONS. I give them against this, be mature enough to give them for it.

[Transcendent]

I trusted Bioware to make Dragon Age 2 be something as cool as DA1 was. Trust broken.

 

I trusted Bioware to do a good job with the grand finale of Mass Effect 3. They not only failed to do a good job, they went full frotzing French Arthouse and made it some ultrafail 'interpreted art' ending that couldn't have failed harder if they'd deliberately set out to screw it up. It took a huge global effort to get them to finally, begrudgingly add to it just a tiny bit, though the Bedgrudging was total and they didn't actually make it good. Just less 'What the frotz is this even I don't what?'

 

So, they did a much better job with Dragon Age: Inquisition. Some faith restored for that - evidence that they can both learn and try to up their game. Full honors restored? Nuh uh. Some.

Broken trust is harder to fix than it is to break in the first place like that.

 

 

Mass Effect? I don't even care if they add more to the franchise now. I really just don't. It was good while it was good, but they took the grand finale and made it into something only Van Gogh could've appreciated.

 

Imagine Episode 3 of the original Star Wars trilogy ending with an abstract montage of Luke's companions fleeing the Death Star, some poignant music and absolutely no closure what so ever as to what even happens with Vader or if Luke even lives or dies or what, but there's Han and Leia and C-3P0 standing outside the wreck of the Falcon, looking off at some hope-filled artsy-fartsy sunrise wile an upbeat swell of the music reminiscent of some Lion King Circle of Life BS crescendos and bam, the end, roll credits.

 

The point I'm trying to make here? Bioware can fail, and when they do, they like to fail big.

 

I mean, look at this very game. SWTOR: the most expensive example of folly, hubris and mediocrity in the MMO scene at the time of its launch. You bet its gotten much better since, but we're still mired in an engine of sheer mediocrity with both hands firmly grasping the increasingly distant past of World of Warcraft's Burning Crusade era baseline mechanisms.

 

Bioware almost literally went digging through Blizzard's garbage and put Star Wars skins on it to make this game. If they'd have actually spent the fabulously enormous budget for this game wisely and tried to make a game that wasn't throwing itself into the past for reasons unbeknownst to quite possibly anybody, we could have been playing a much better game.

 

But this is what you get when hundreds of millions of dollars is thrown at mismanagement and some unquantifiable severity of ego and conflicting direction. Here we sit forevermore on a second-rate engine in a game that tanked so hard that it had to go free to play in the first year just to keep the servers on.

 

Here we sit in a game made by people that, for whatever reason, seem very intent on putting the lion's share of everything neat in gambling addicts' CC Market boxes because whatever, need to make money, who the crap even actually cares anymore.

 

And you have the audacity to plug your faith in Bioware as though its even merited, let alone representative of anything other than sheer folly?

 

 

Your faith is misplaced. They don't always have good reasons no matter that they always act like they think they do and when they screw up, they're too proud to apologize or even necessarily try to fix it because, as far as I can tell, that'd be admitting failure, and the first rule of being a giant failure in corporate business is that you never apologize and you never admit failure.

 

You forge ahead. Failure doesn't exist in your vocabulary. You never admit setbacks to the public and you deny through absolute silence every single thing that doesn't fit with your projections' narrative.

 

You have faith in that? You trust that?

 

Because I don't trust that very much at all.

 

I sense some bitterness.

 

Your points are all well made, however sadly BioWare is not the only developer who goes through this process, there seems to be an inherent "this is our game and this is how we want you to play it".

 

All the while, forgetting that they're creating games that are meant to be fun for everyone who plays them.

 

Making it optional, I'm guessing, would affect how the Alliances system is going to work. If that really is the case, then it's been poorly designed from the offset to have to overhaul how the entire game works. I'm thinking Mass Effect "gather your forces to fight the reapers" type of story telling, hence to make the story work, they've had to scale the planets entirely (instead of making things instanced, which they have better experience with in SWTOR).

 

If that really is the case, and we absolutely can't avoid being scaled downwards (we're not taking anything away from the players that has been earned! - devs words), then BioWare will have failed in that story telling. It would be immersion breaking for my characters, that have saved the galaxy from numerous threats, to all of a sudden, being very weak against basic mobs on planets I've done most of the content on.

 

So that would be a story telling failure. From the outset.

 

I hope I'm wrong. I hope that everyone gets to enjoy the story without feeling excluded or having a jarring experience. Considering that's exactly what KotFE is supposed to be, more story telling.

[Raansu]

We aren't supposed to solo WB becouse it's a group content designed as such. You know why? When you solo it overleveled, you get pile of useless junk for your efforts. If it was meant to be overleveled, then you would get matching reward for doing it.

 

Really, are you questioning the nature of group content? Are you implying that entire game should be played with greyed mobs? Becouse you look stupid while doing so.

 

And for the love of god, stop this optional BS. I think i already explained why it shouldn't happen.

 

I like the concept of WB's giving level appropriate drops/commendations so ya I'm not bothered by level sync. Sure I've solo'd WB's to see if I can do it but that was back at level 50 and the end result was it was really pointless lol. I just don't see what the big deal is.

[Quraswren]

Until more information is released... who knows? Can't say it would be better or worse.

 

Sure you can. Have you ever played an MMO before? One that has a leveling system to where you get better as you level.

 

Now, take all that information you know, listen and watch what BW has said and shown. Reach an educated conclusion based on what information you have.

 

If BW is holding back information well screw them really at this point.

 

I can clearly say, that with what I know about mmos games and leveling in those games and what BW is doing. The down scaling of my toons is not interesting to me.

 

Thats not saying the feature isn't interesting or should be removed. It just needs to be optional. I don't need to be down scaled to any particular planet so I can have fun. I have fun now or I wouldn't still be here. Getting down scaled isn't going to make my experience more entertaining. It's actually going to hurt it a little and thats not exciting times.

 

So yea. I can say this is not going to be better for me. Optional however would be perfect. Forced - not so much.

[azudelphi]

, to all of a sudden, being very weak against basic mobs on planets I've done most of the content on.

In watching the stream, Musco was no where near a high-end APM / rotation and was not "weak" against the DK mobs... they went down pretty quick and his health seemed fine. The weakness to lower level mobs is a bit exaggerated it seems. It seriously seems like player strength is based more on ability and abilities than stats when returning to a lower level planet... to that end, the change sets a better groundwork for low-level / veteran grouping as the veteran will be quite strong, but not invincible. In fact, the biggest drawback is that you won't "

" everything meaning some amount of risk; and where there is risk, they can add reward... in that sense, I get the change.

[Tsillah]

Yeh you may have to do two attacks instead of one....the end is near.

[K_osss]

Not everyone will agree but I like level syncing for a few reasons:

• I have non-sub friends who play and I like the freedom to play any of my characters with them.
  
• I actually prefer to play content that doesn't involve me 1 shotting anything - ever. I like more of a challenge than less of one. Not that the footage of Musco on DK doing the heroic looked hard but it was directionally harder than had he been 60.
  
• I think you can reasonably reward completion for a "level 18 (60 synced)" doing a level 18 heroic rather than handing out rewards for 60's doing level 10 content. We can argue about whether the rewards are worth it but that's something different.
  
• I'm not saying this is new content - but for ME it will be more revitalized content because I now have the option to do it in a more enjoyable way - for me, on the character of my choosing.
  
• I believe it streamlines some of the other aspects of the game they are changing as well, such as gathering and crafting. There are now other reasons to be on lower level planets besides your run through on the story.
  

 

Those are some of MY reasons for enjoying it. Feel free to disagree all you want, as I don't expect everyone to share my opinions.