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Discipline System; I don't suppose there is still time to reconsider?


Icebergy

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Because you haven't even tried it, yet here you are whining about it. You played another game with a similar system and therefore think you know how this one will be.

 

I'm kind of at a loss that you are criticizing me for having a criticism of the game when you are always the one defending people who post far less constructive and far less polite criticisms than this thread.

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I'm kind of at a loss that you are criticizing me for having a criticism of the game when you are always the one defending people who post far less constructive and far less polite criticisms than this thread.

 

You have a criticism of a feature that you haven't tried because another game has something that might be similar but at the same time not really, without having seen the Disciplines system in action.

 

Maybe try being a little more specific than WoW did it; since there seem to be some differences.

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You have a criticism of a feature that you haven't tried because another game has something that might be similar but at the same time not really, without having seen the Disciplines system in action.

 

Maybe try being a little more specific than WoW did it; since there seem to be some differences.

 

Again, you can have an opinion about things you have not tried yet. Papa Johns just came out with a Fritos Pizza, I think it looks disgusting. Its not whining or illegal for me to have that opinion without trying it first.

 

If you disagree with me, all you have to do is say so, maybe give a reason. Calling me a whiner really isn't necessary.

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Again, you can have an opinion about things you have not tried yet. Papa Johns just came out with a Fritos Pizza, I think it looks disgusting. Its not whining or illegal for me to have that opinion without trying it first.

 

If you disagree with me, all you have to do is say so, maybe give a reason. Calling me a whiner really isn't necessary.

 

As I said, you are wrong because they aren't going this route *because* WoW did it, but rather:

The point of this is to remove hybrids from the game outright, to give more control to the formerly shared trees, and promote balance between all specs.
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Deciding you don't like something without trying it is ignorant. My five year old has already figured this out, and my 3 year old is catching on. If a young child has the capacity to acknowledge that judging something without all the facts is stupid, then what's your excuse?

 

Your three year old and five year old haven't been alive long enough to develop the life experience and high end decision making processes necessary to not have to "try everything" but you probably have, what's your excuse?

 

Hopefully their mother is the one in charge of teaching them to be polite as well.

Edited by Icebergy
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Your three year old and five year old haven't been alive long enough to develop the life experience and high end decision making processes necessary to not have to "try everything" but you probably have, what's your excuse?

 

We still don't know whether Disciplines will be a net positive or negative for the game.

 

Most of us are reserving judgement until we have a chance to try it out. There are definitely some positives to the direction it's going though; call it cautious optimism.

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Your three year old and five year old haven't been alive long enough to develop the life experience and high end decision making processes necessary to not have to "try everything" but you probably have, what's your excuse?

 

Beyond self preservation, there is very seldom a reason not to try something. You're making snap judgments about something you don't fully understand. If you see nothing wrong with that, then there's really nothing else to say.

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Beyond self preservation, there is very seldom a reason not to try something. You're making snap judgments about something you don't fully understand. If you see nothing wrong with that, then there's really nothing else to say.

 

I'm making judgements based on reviews, published information about it, and drawing an association from experience with a similar concept in a similar game. If you are unable to comprehend the difference, then there's really nothing else to say.

Edited by Icebergy
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I really don't know what the devs think the point of this is. I've never been on the "WoW clone bandwagon" for this game or any game, but in this case it pretty much seems to me that they are just blatantly copying what WoW did because WoW makes more money.

 

That's kind of been their design philosophy all along with regards to a lot of systems in the game. This shouldn't surprise you.

 

That being said, Disciplines as I've seen it described and demo is not identical to the WOW talent system. It's actually pretty different (allows for more customization).

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It doesn't really look like it's going to make that much of a difference either way for the vast majority of the people. If anything it may be a little better in that you will have a little more leeway picking those optional skills. Honestly in my opinion change it, don't change it, whatever, it won't affect my enjoyment in the slightest. Come 3 December I will be just as happy.
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Not sure why this was necessary, Tux.

 

 

 

Yea OK. McDonalds comes out with a new hamburger, I don't think it sounds good, but I am not allowed to say so because I haven't eaten it.

 

No what he is okay with you saying it sounds good, he's not okay with you saying it actually tastes horrible if you haven't actually eaten it.

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No, there is no time to reconsider.

 

You are talking about a major system in the game that is in the final stages of testing, and slated for rollout in three weeks. The only way they could stop it from rolling out would be to cancel the expansion, which many people have already paid for.

 

So good or bad, it is too late to turn back.

 

That said, I am optimistic about the new system. I don't think it will affect game play in any significant way, and will make game balance easier to achieve. Since I was already figuring I would need to learn new skills and rotations, I don't really see a down side.

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I'm making judgements based on reviews, published information about it, and drawing an association from experience with a similar concept in a similar game. If you are unable to comprehend the difference, then there's really nothing else to say.

 

 

You can base your judgement on anything you wish.

 

The simple truth of it is, you don't matter.

 

BioWare are going to change things whether you like it or not.

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I'm hoping the Discipline System is going to provide us with more options to tune our character's skills in directions that weren't previously available because of which skill tree we happened to choose.

 

I think it should be fairly interesting what new options it opens up for each of our characters in the 8 advanced classes. :)

 

.

Edited by anonnn
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A bit more food for thought.

 

Whats the big gripe against Disciplines? "Oh my God, I cant do a hybrid spec anymore, waaaaaah!"

 

What had bioware been doing for quite some time now? Nerfing, destroying, or making impossible every single decent viable hybrid they came across. One pops up, they knock it down.

 

Lets say they gave you want you wanted and left the skill trees with their now-51 illusions of choice. What could we assume they would keep on doing? Nerfing, destroying, or making impossible hybrids, like they had been already. They could lock you into skill trees. Give things like Chain Lightning and Death Field shared cooldowns. Whatever.

 

And what would the end result be? A system where you put 51 little tick marks on a window and yet, only get to make 1 or two meaningful choices (must of which boil down to Are you pvping? If yes, X, if not, Y.).

 

With Disciplines, you now get to make 7 choices. A few are clearly and obviously absolutely necessary, and there are going to be all new "If you dont have X utility, youre a noob" arguments (most of which will be completely valid) but you still have more flexibility than you do now that wouldnt have been taken away by Bioware eventually anyway.

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A bit more food for thought.

 

Whats the big gripe against Disciplines? "Oh my God, I cant do a hybrid spec anymore, waaaaaah!"

 

What had bioware been doing for quite some time now? Nerfing, destroying, or making impossible every single decent viable hybrid they came across. One pops up, they knock it down.

 

Lets say they gave you want you wanted and left the skill trees with their now-51 illusions of choice. What could we assume they would keep on doing? Nerfing, destroying, or making impossible hybrids, like they had been already. They could lock you into skill trees. Give things like Chain Lightning and Death Field shared cooldowns. Whatever.

 

And what would the end result be? A system where you put 51 little tick marks on a window and yet, only get to make 1 or two meaningful choices (must of which boil down to Are you pvping? If yes, X, if not, Y.).

 

With Disciplines, you now get to make 7 choices. A few are clearly and obviously absolutely necessary, and there are going to be all new "If you dont have X utility, youre a noob" arguments (most of which will be completely valid) but you still have more flexibility than you do now that wouldnt have been taken away by Bioware eventually anyway.

 

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Ok, let's set some things straight here because I don't think some people have a clue how this system works.

 

This is no where like World of Warcraft what they did you choose 1 of 3 and it's mindless and you don't need a brain to do it. Blizzard did not think that through at all and wanted even more people, regardless of who they are, to come play their game and make it easier to do so. They did not think it through.

 

In SWTOR, BioWare has actually introduced this new way to play the classes without dumbing it down. There will be new abilities, new things to choose from and you are going to get new ways to figure out how to play your classes. It's removing useless hybrids and introducing actually more adaptive type of gameplay and tells you what you are getting. You are still going to your trainer to get skills. It's not like they removed all the skills and you are getting to choose from 3 and then you go based off the one you did.

 

So let's get that out of the way. It's actually nowhere near what WoW did. That was dumbing down the game. SWTOR is making it more interesting. There's a difference.

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The utility talents already contain virtually everything you'd go into a hybrid spec for if not more, and frankly it seems even more flexible in that regard.

Having a ton of points to spend does not mean having a ton of variance, 9 times out of 10 you're going to find out what works best, then use the vast majority of points on that.

I've got characters of all advclasses and they all have field respec, and I can tell you that the current talent system is nothing but a hassle with me having to spamclick a bunch of no-brainer talents every time I respec.

 

The discipline system seems like its going to offer more variance, be easier to balance, and just be overall more convenient.

And ON TOP OF THAT, the more boring leveling argument falls completely flat due to the fact that you no longer have to wait till your char is in its bloody 40ies before it gets its spec defining abilities!

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So let's get that out of the way. It's actually nowhere near what WoW did. That was dumbing down the game. SWTOR is making it more interesting. There's a difference.

 

You're wasting your time.

The OP has already decided -based on other games- that he will hate the system no matter what.

There's no point in trying to convince someone who thinks he's giving feedback...based on a different system of a different game.:rolleyes:

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Clearly this thread exists in an alternate universe of some kind. Why? Because I find myself disagreeing with Icebergy and agreeing with TUXs. :p

 

Just because WoW did something similar is completely irrelevant. And, it's absurd to point to WoWs current system and judge a system one has not even played yet in SWTOR. And.. if Icebergy did actually play the new system.. he could not reveal it to us as he would be under NDA... so this thread is indeed a complaint thread.

 

Based on what has been disclosed to us so far, I like the new system. Sure... it means change and some people stress about change. But change is good, particularly in games, where players get bored and players pigeon hole each other into fixed skill spec (under pain of ridicule).

 

Once the player base decides how to cookie cutter the new disciplines (like they did with skill trees), I'm sure we will once again see forced choices under pain of ridicule again...but hopefully it's less notable this time around.

You know how I know I'm wrong on something? Andryah agrees with me ;)

 

However...I'm gonna stick to my guns on this one and say that, prior to trying this new system, I'm absolutely thrilled about it for a number of reasons. It addresses some of my biggest complaints about the current mechanics and seems to give enough in return for the lack of hybriding that most players should be happy. Looking at the Commando Disciplines, I'm already seeing conflicts between my PvP and PvE desires...something I don't currently have because my base skills cover enough of the fluff items that are nice in PvP without sacrificing anything for PvE.

 

Judging SWTOR based on what you tried in W0W is just whining imo because it's apples and oranges.

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So let's get that out of the way. It's actually nowhere near what WoW did. That was dumbing down the game. SWTOR is making it more interesting. There's a difference.

 

True to a point. They arent making it that much more interesting. There is a bit more variability in viability of choice, but not that much more. About all this really accomplishes is forever banishing hybrids so they no longer have to figure those into their balancing calculations.

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I am still a bit concerned...but I would say that it looks like I will have around 90 percent of the abilities I have now, unchanged (or only slightly changed0 under the new system, and perhaps a few new options to boot.

 

Yes, I see I lose one or two things since they have been added to the "options" side or altered to work differently. But they were really supplemental things...I think I can live without them, we will see.

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