ETA on Advanced Class change?

[schmel]

LOL.

The game is far too easy.

Do a couple of flashpoints on a planet and throw in some PvP and you'll be out-levelling the content almost from the second planet onwards.

This means that you only need to complete class quests before you move on.

Even the slowest player couldn't take months to take a character to 55.

It's not the difficulty of the game. It's just that I can't seem to play that fast somehow. Do you have a faster-than-normal mount or something? A treasure trove of quick travel passes? That sort of stuff is what makes it take awhile.

[schmel]

I am waiting for the AC changes to even play my Pub side again.... When I first started this game, I had no idea what classes did why, this is my first MMO. So I rolled a Sentinel, because I loved dual sabers... Well, time has passed, I have 12 toons in total and I have discovered, I love to tank. However, my pub toons were early, before I knew better and my Imp side, is heavy on the tank spec, the way I like it.

 

So, in reality, I would like to have a Guardian, the mirror of my 55, well geared Jugg.... SO, I do NOT want to hear from others, that I need to learn the class, I know it based on my Jugg alone, never mind my other tank toons.

 

I am at a point, I am very burnt out on leveling.. The thought of making a new toon, in a base class I already have, the same base story and after all that effort, I wont even have anymore legacy perks for a duplicate base class... is TOTALLY NOT desirable.

 

However, they could consider having perks in legacy for the AC, that may have some incentive for some of us to maybe roll a new alt and deal with the frustrating and repetitive grind. But I am sure, this is not likely anyway....

 

Ill pay $20 to have my sentinel turned into a guardian, I do not care if its only one time, I will never need to change it back.

 

I am not the only person new to MMO's that started with this game, and over time, after learning classes and their roll in OPS for example, should have the possibility to correct past mistakes. Unlike some of you that say no, and maybe have no job and tons of time to level toons, not all of us do. I work and when I come home, I play. Lets face it, leveling is a boring and frustrating GRIND, some of us, are not excited to repeat or sink all that time into doing, when we would rather enjoy the end game content.

 

YESSSSSSSSSS to AC changes!!!! My wallet is open and waiting.....

+72 Well said, sir!!

[VacoVenator]

I always love these discussions. You have the players that want the feature, the players that don't care one way or the other and then the "Worst idea ever" players. The irony of this is that if Bioware had included the ability to change your advance class in the release version, most of the "Worst idea ever" players would be using it and never even give it a thought.

 

Same thing applies to having a multi-spec feature that allows for quickly changing your abilities and gear. Every time someone mentions that as a desired feature you get 10 guys whining about how we are too lazy already. How much you willing to bet that if that feature had been in release and someone proposed taking it away, the same cry babies would be screaming bloody murder.

 

Bottom line is, if someone proposes a feature that you don't like, think about this: Would you have used the feature if it had been included in release or would you have ignored it out of principle? Well same thing applies in reverse, if Bioware adds a new feature that you disagree with, don't use it and just keep playing the way you want.

[Margoth]

I'm reading this thread and shaking my head at the arguments being presented here. Personally I don't care. I'm pretty much ok with the AC choices I've made on my toons. I might change my Jugg DPS to a marauder if they ever implement but probably not.

 

Some of the more amusing arguments I've seen presented:

1. The Devs have said they will never let this happen.

Well yeah. And "Never" in MMO land means. "Until such time as the creative team changes, economic conditions force a change or the evolving game makes us revisit the decisiion".

 

2. Your Class is your Class and you can't change it.

Your species is your species and you can't change it.... Oh wait. You can now. So we accept a world where you can change your species but not your fighting specialization...

 

3. People won't know how to play their class.

PUGed recently? There are many people that can't play their classes now.

Also you can already respec. So you can go from Healing to DPS, DPS to Healing, Tank to DPS, DPS to tank, depending on your AC. So is it really the end of the world if you can go from Tank to Healing?

 

4. Your armor/equipment won't work because it's medium to Heavy or vice versa.

This affects only a small subset of classes (Warriro/Knight) most classes have the same Armor (but not necessarily weapon) between ACs. Also if you are wearing Adaptive armor (which many people do) then it would simply adapt. Given the introduction of adaptive armor, perhaps the whole Light/medium/heavy is due for re-evaluation along with the small number of class limited armor pieces left floating around out there.

 

Bigger issue is the weapons which do vary. So throw a warning in there before letting a person respec. If they choose to anyway so be it.

 

5. People will change to the FOTM

Like they do now....

 

6. People will quit the game.

Sure. Some might. I could argue that others will flock to the game because of the new flexibility. I can't prove that any more then you can prove people will leave. Anecdotal examples as a % of the population are meaningless.

 

7. You just want it because you are lazy.

It's a game. It's not work. Games are supposed to be fun. I work to make money. I play the game to have fun. It has nothing to do with being lazy.

 

8. It's like going from a rogue to a monk...

Last time I checked this game doesn't have rogues or monks... But if you are thinking of some other universe, I'd ask how it is any different then being able to respec as oh say a Paladin, from heals to DPS to tank?

 

End of the day it will get implemented or not. If it is implemented life will go on. The haters will point to the people that convert and have no clue and cite it as an example of why this was a bad idea. Every fail tank will be pointed to as "they must have just switched ACs"

 

If it doesn't get implemented life will go on. People will continue to whine about it and some will say "I'm quitting because they didn't implement this".

 

Anyone that thinks anything we say in this thread is going to effect the business decision on whether they implement it or not is delusional.

 

So with that being said I'll return you to your regularly scheduled ranting and raving.

[Spatology]

hopefully the ETA is never.

[SavingPrincess]

I always love these discussions. You have the players that want the feature, the players that don't care one way or the other and then the "Worst idea ever" players. The irony of this is that if Bioware had included the ability to change your advance class in the release version, most of the "Worst idea ever" players would be using it and never even give it a thought.

 

Same thing applies to having a multi-spec feature that allows for quickly changing your abilities and gear. Every time someone mentions that as a desired feature you get 10 guys whining about how we are too lazy already. How much you willing to bet that if that feature had been in release and someone proposed taking it away, the same cry babies would be screaming bloody murder.

 

Bottom line is, if someone proposes a feature that you don't like, think about this: Would you have used the feature if it had been included in release or would you have ignored it out of principle? Well same thing applies in reverse, if Bioware adds a new feature that you disagree with, don't use it and just keep playing the way you want.

 

How DARE you bring logic into this!!

[Hizoka]

AC changes is something I could get behind and I can see where people might get into a class and dislike it.

 

• Having an AC change could encourage individuals to play the game more / longer. Keeping subs going.
  
• It could be priced in a way that few would ever be able to abuse it.
  
• It could still have a time limit placed on doing it.
  
• It wouldn't affect AC balance since there is nothing in place now for balancing AC's.
  
• It's also the prefect money maker as there are those that really want this. This is one of the few things I see as: "should belong in the cartel market." (given that so much of the other stuff should not be)
  

 

I think overall it's a win/win for the game and for players.

its a lose/lose. its closer to pay2win then anything else next to selling raid gear in the CM. People will AC swap simply to play the FOTM. On top of that people are terrible at playing a class they leveled for 55 levels how bad do you think they will be when you hand them a 100% new class with improper gear??

 

There is 0 good that comes from it, this is something the lazy QQ brigade wants not the bulk of the playerbase. Its no different then just selling level 55 toons on the CM its a dumb idea and there is nothing good that will come of it.

[Quraswren]

its a lose/lose. its closer to pay2win then anything else next to selling raid gear in the CM.

 

You're reaching for a P2W scenario there. Changing AC with limitations is no where near a pay 2 win game.

 

People will AC swap simply to play the FOTM.

 

I don't care. It's their game time and their dime. If they want to spend some cash and swap AC's, more power to them. The AC swap needs limitations but that would be easy enough to implement to stop a FOTM constant changing. Cost and a time limit being the 2 easily ones to start with.

 

On top of that people are terrible at playing a class they leveled for 55 levels how bad do you think they will be when you hand them a 100% new class with improper gear??

 

Exactly. People are already bad and they leveled from 1-55. Taking your 55 gunslinger and making him a smuggler won't change anything for them. Bads stay bad.

 

The ones that actually put in effort to know their class will have already put in the work to know the alternate AC anyway cause they want to be good at it. Most will already have gear to support it. Goods remain good.

 

But the cool thing that might happen is that bad players might get a new appreciation for the game if they really enjoy the changed AC. They might actually become good players. ( I say might cause you never know but even if they stay bad players your no worse off then you were if they stayed with their first AC.)

 

There is 0 good that comes from it, this is something the lazy QQ brigade wants not the bulk of the playerbase. Its no different then just selling level 55 toons on the CM its a dumb idea and there is nothing good that will come of it.

 

I can see all kinds of good coming from an AC swap with limitations. The only bad thing coming from this is the fear mongering along with the hyperbole you have there near the end of your post.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Quraswren

[Ratajack]

Just one example.....

 

Sorc is incredibly underpowered at level 50.

[/color]

 

DING DING DING

 

Here we have one example of one of the biggest reasons why people want class changes, to be the OP class.

 

Is this really a valid reason for wanting to change class?

[Asavar]

Won't happen.

[Deganji]

It says, when you choose your AC, that it's a permanent choice. The amount of people who pick an AC then cry they can't switch in game every night is just amazing to me. Not being a jerk here, just slow down and read people.

 

That said, I don't really care if we get this one way or the other. If it gets put in, it gets put in. No need for everyone to fight about it, it's not like the devs give a crap what the players say anyway. One thing is for sure, if it does get put in, it'll also cost cartel coins.

 

I'd never pay for it myself, heck I've delete 55s and remade them just to have something to do. Not like it takes long to level or there is anything to do at endgame. I just find leveling fun. I know it takes some people longer to level, I'm not downing you, chill.

 

I just know it's going to suck healing all those 55 tanks that haven't tanked a day in their life. That is, if you can get a heal slot, after all the dps switch to heals to get a fast que.

 

Wait, all the dps switch to tank and heals? I might get to try out my dps spec.. Might not be so bad, haha.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Deganji

[Pingonaut]

I simply do not understand why so many people want this in the game. Seriously, what is so hard about making a new character? Do you not think over your decision before choosing? Are you simply closing your eyes and picking your AC? Seriously, make an informed decision before choosing the class you'll be playing the rest of your game life.

[Sziroten]

If people really want this change, why not.

 

I don't regret a single minute of playtime on any of my characters and you still won't understand how other classes play which makes you per se a worse player in pvp for example.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Sziroten

[CommanderKeeva]

I wouldn't complain if they made the AC change one time only and expensive, so you can't respec every other day and abuse the feature.

 

But even though the AC selection screen says it's permanent, it doesn't address two very real concerns:

 

1. Players have no idea how the classes they pick will perform at endgame. Especially DPS-wise, one AC can out-dps the other by a huge margin. This is especially true for ACs that have viable hybrid trees (such as Gunslinger > Scoundrel and Vanguard > Commando). The difference in performance may not be apparent until you're well-invested into the endgame level and done parses on hard/nightmare bosses. Then you realize there's nothing else you can improve with your DPS, you should have went with the other AC half a year ago -,-

 

2. Rerolling an alt means losing everything your other character had. Every speeder, every pet, every title, every codex entry, everything. An upsetting experience for collectors, to say the least. Rerolling wouldn't be such a huge issue, if our speeder, pet and Codex collections were bound to legacy.

 

So yeah, don't abuse this feature but let players who accidentally chose an AC that performs significantly worse in one area than its counterpart change their ACs without losing everything they've collected.

[Jeweledleah]

 

I just know it's going to suck healing all those 55 tanks that haven't tanked a day in their life. That is, if you can get a heal slot, after all the dps switch to heals to get a fast que.

 

well... it already sucks since when you pick AC, you still have a choice between tanking and dps tree and a lot of people just level as a dps, and then respec when they hit max level.

 

so whether AC change is allowed or not - above is still happening and will continue to happen.

 

I know that for me, even knowing what the class is supposed to be about - it took actually playing to realize that I wasn't enjoying it. some things you just cannot judge until you try.. and then its too late and you have pets and titles and other fun items you sometimes cannot even replace anymore, because it was a one time deal, one time event

[Hakkology]

*Sarcasm on*Just make it 5k CC Bioware, its a good money maker.*Sarcasm off*

[Xeperi]

Gotta chime in.

 

1. Any game is fun because you are earning something, overcoming some challenge. So there is a value to the reward of overcoming a challenge. When a reward is something you can buy (with real money or credits) it loses value. Experience points are currently the only thing (afaik) that cannot be bought or sold for either real money or credits. If you want to say that XP accelerator packs are "bought xp", that is fine. But that is really the only instance.

 

When you make long-term decisions for your character you are basically investing all of the (precious) xp you have earned so far into that decision. The ability to simply switch around these decisions is a bad bad bad idea. Because it lowers the value of xp which in turn lowers the value of the primary reward in overcoming the challenge of the game.

 

In my opinion, you should not even be able to field re-spec without paying for it IN XP. Likewise, if they ever implement the ability to switch up advanced classes, I would hope that it comes with a really steep price in XP. Not cartel coins, because really XP is worth a lot more. Why pay in XP? Because the act of making a major change in your character "for free" means that there is zero risk in the original investment (the long term decisions I mentioned above). That zero risk devalues XP. An XP fee would would re-value the XP by making it more rare.

 

2. All of that being said- I think it would be interesting to be able to multiclass. So when it comes time to pick your Advanced Class, you would have an option to choose another class. For example, A Sith Warrior could choose between Sith Warrior Juggernaut, Sith Warrior Marauder, or Sith Warrior Assassin (or any other imp class). Yes, the story lines would have to be changed and the game tweaked. The spec trees for this would probably have to be unique and I am not honestly sure how it would be implemented. But I think it would be fun.

[Avatarless]

Options are good. Choices are good.

 

Switching AC for someone bored to death with what they are playing has the potential to total revitalize that players experience of the game and keep them subbed and happy.

 

I see nothing wrong with that.

 

The only real reason I see against AC switching, from a Bioware standpoint, is because it may reduce the 'want' for extra character slots. But I'm sure they could make that up with what they charge for AC switching, which won't be cheap.

[LordRahlik]

But... Ok, I absolutely hate the idea of being able to switch AC but let's analyze the responses in this thread:

 

1 - People will play *more* since they can switch from something they feel is underpowered or are bored with.

Yes, possibly, but you will have a HUGE chunk of people quitting outright and I seriously doubt that you will bring in new players.

There is a possibility that you will get back some old players that now can try something new if they didn't have the stamina to level up a second char, but I seriously doubt that you will stay on status quo on the amount of people playing the game. It will take a huge hit in subscriptions and CM purchases.

It's a fact that many will stop playing, but it's not a fact how many they will gain - so bottom line is that it's a gamble. You know, without a doubt, that you will lose players, same as when they started f2p, but the question is how many they will gain and if the gain will make up for the loss.

End result - uncertain, probably a loss of the total money spent on this game.

 

2 - Guilds will be able to accomplish more if guilds can move people around if someone leaves a guild.

Sure, no doubt about it. Tightly knit guilds will be more free to compensate for one person leaving. But they will (due to point 1) probably have a slimmer population to choose from when getting replacements.

 

3 - Loss of competence.

The people that leave will probably be a lot of the elite players. Those who know how to defeat bosses, those who pull raids and those who engage in the game.

These people lose most on the possibility of switching AC. This might leave guilds without leaders and PUG raids without anyone knowing how to progress through ops and flashpoints.

You cannot compensate everything with more gear.

 

Bottom line is that we know, without a doubt, that it will affect the player base negatively. The question is if the positive influx of players will compensate or not.

 

Do you want to take that chance when it's so super mega easy to just play and alt and the problem is solved?

[Tfranco]

they said they planned to move to Avenger style storytelling. Which last I knew, meant fraction based, not class based.

 

I also recall them saying the hard part was the class stories, because they then had to cover all the bases when it came to your choices, and it made the idea of more class stories pretty much impossible, and the focus on fraction based stories as the wave of the future.

 

I am ok with faction based class stories on one condition: have companions play a god damn role at some point.

 

As for the original debate. Honesty idc about adv class changes, I would make only 1 change my self scoundrel to gunslinger. But if they were to implement it they should make it a "buff" when you hit a certain level. For example: you buy the privilege on that SINGLE character for idk 2000ccs (maybe more). When you hit lvl 10 you gain a 2 or 3 hour buff called "are you sure" while this buff is active you can go back and change your advanced class. Ones it runs out your stuck. Once you hit idk, 35 maybe 40 the buff comes back for maybe 1hr 30mins this time, this would give you enough time to see the other class at your lvl. And finally one last time for 30mins or an hour upon hitting 55 you can change.

 

What if I buy this at 55? You simply get the final leg of the buff, 30mins - 1hr to make your final choice. This would give people the option to change back if they dont like what they see.

[branmakmuffin]

As for the original debate. Honesty idc about adv class changes, I would make only 1 change my self scoundrel to gunslinger. But if they were to implement it they should make it a "buff" when you hit a certain level. For example: you buy the privilege on that SINGLE character for idk 2000ccs (maybe more). When you hit lvl 10 you gain a 2 or 3 hour buff called "are you sure" while this buff is active you can go back and change your advanced class. Ones it runs out your stuck. Once you hit idk, 35 maybe 40 the buff comes back for maybe 1hr 30mins this time, this would give you enough time to see the other class at your lvl. And finally one last time for 30mins or an hour upon hitting 55 you can change.

Specific time limits and CC costs discussion aside, this is the best practical suggestion I've seen in the thread. This is similar to the refund period when you but stuff from the planetary barter folks.

 

Thumbs up.

[Tfranco]

Specific time limits and CC costs discussion aside, this is the best practical suggestion I've seen in the thread. This is similar to the refund period when you but stuff from the planetary barter folks.

 

Thumbs up.

 

Well I do not think the changes should be "free" or too easy to buy. Though I just spat times out of the top of my head.

[Mekkanon]

Again, so what? It's not like you would be able to change your class to an entirely new never-before-played class.

 

And it does not impact your game play.

 

Im so done with this, it does not impact YOUR gameplay nonsense.

 

Letting people change from a sage to a Jedi guardian doesnt impact my gamplay as well.

If someone would instantly become level 55 because he bought it, while id have to level an alt all the way there it wouldnt influence my gameplay as well.

If that person gets all his gear/unlocks on multiple characters it wouldnt influence my gameplay as well.

 

Playing an RPG means developing your character along certain lines.

Picking a class, look and playstyle.

While in a single player game changing these base rules affects nothing but your own gameplay experience Changing these in an MMORPG you do influence the gameplay experience of others. THis is part of the rules of the game.

Then there is the point of the feeling of accomplishment. While some will always take the easy root, others dont. The second group is emotionally influenced by less effort but same result> lowering their Gameplay Experience.

 

A note here is that in MMORPG's Gameplay is far superior with regard to experience than Cosmetics are. Thats why cosmetic changes do not influence me in any way.

 

Im a Jedi Shadow Tank, my guild is lacking healers however and has suffiecient tanks

I decide to switch to sage.

You could say this only benefitted the people from my guild. However, this also means one other player wont be able to play with our guild, even though he invested all this time in becomming a healer for a raiding guild!

Someones gameplay experience is now changed.

While this is a weak example, changing AC influences others,while not directly. they do so indirectly.

 

Trooper, Smuggler, Consular and Knight are not classes. They are storylines.

Go finish your storyline as a trooper/consular/knight or smuggler it becomes pretty darn difficult if not impossible.

 

It would stimulate people chosing the easy leveling AC then switch at max level. Again Breaking the rules of the MMORPG genre.

 

Some people would hate that they leveled an alt for the exact reason as people that are buying AC changes

Changing AC class means your buying something that would cost a large amount of time to obtain without these recourses.

this = the definition of pay2win

Bioware already did this with level 31 armor and space stuff.

The final arguement against this is i think what is said in the game, not by developers.

This decision is permanent, so choose wisely.

[MadHobbit]

I would be happy with a way to change skill trees, have a DPS build for my BH merc and have a healer build. City of heroes had that in fact you could have 3 different ones. you could go to a trainer and swap, then you had a 15 min cooldown before you could do it again. Yes I know you can go to fleet and change, but to have a "hot swappable"

skill trees, you can setup once or switch to before a skills reset would be nice

Edited May 29, 2013 by MadHobbit
misspell

[Themanthatisi]

I dont have to wah wah. I chose a class that I knew was going to be good. I tank. I enjoy Tanking so I made a tank, then I have alts for other stuff. People made their toons with the knowledge that when the game first came out there would be no AC changing yet they are whining for it still over a year later.

 

Many of us came over because we may have been huge KOTOR fans or just happen to love Star Wars and had NO IDEA how classes worked, because we never played a MMO....

 

12 toons later, I do and I also love to tank, but early on I made a bunch of non tanks on the Pub side, MANY made mistakes not knowing any better... Just because you know the classes heading in, does not mean we all did or should have known.

 

This game brought in MANY people that never played a MMO, and them changing their AC will have ZERO affect on your game play, but will greatly enhance theirs.

 

I want my sentinel to be a guardian, whats the big deal??? Stop trying to ruin the fun others may have.... Im not making toon 13, so until AC changes happen, I wont even touch the Pub side, all DPS toons and I am only asking for 1 to be changed.....

 

so again, how does this affect you?