A Tale of Two Games: ToR and WoW - Review!

[drhay]

Say whatever you want, but I haven't played WoW for longer than it takes to raid since a week after cataclysm came out. I log in 2 days a week to raid, and usually my food and flask buffs are still up from the week before. The game is boring, uninteresting in every single way, and can barely hold my attention anymore.

 

When comparing WoW and ToR you're comparing 7 years of feedback and iteration to release day. Of course those 2 things are not comparable. If ToR was as polished as WoW we'd be talking about the people in ToR being the best programmers and developers in the history of gaming. It's unrealistic.

 

The thing we can do as gamers is continue to give constructive feedback and see how the game evolves. It should be clear fairly quickly how receptive BW is to our needs as the people who actually play the game. As it stand, on launch day, the game seems quite good to me compared to many competitors. Let's see if they dump the resources we've all given them into improving the game. If they don't, well, I guess I'll choke down a panda expansion from 'the game that's not to be named'. Probably not, actually.

[wheeloftimefan]

I read through the review. I have a few things to say. I have been playing MMORPGS a long long time. I started with the mmo D&d on AOL, Meridian 59 and UO. My favorite MMORPGs are Eq1, and UO. Old republic reminds me of WOW in Wows early days. When it used to have depth, and challenge. I don't want to trash wow, but I do want to make comparisons. Wow literally lifted a lot of ideas from a lot of MMORPGs. They did lift the UI from EQ1, and many other things from other mmos.

 

I remember Eq1 felt like a huge grind because you would camp kill stuff for such and such levels, then you move to another camp rinse and repeat. Wow introduced a really cool quest system. I remember how awesome it was to be rewarded for everything I Was doing, and it really helped out with the lvl grind. Now it has grown old and tired, and most of the quests are the same crap.

 

When I started up OLd republic it has lifted a lot from wow, much like wow has lifted from every other mmo on the market and made it better. I feel Old republic is revolutionary. The MMO has a good story. The story does change, and it does have an impact. The rewards are great, and I feel like I can participate in shaping the universe. I hit lvl 17 and I got my freaking starship. THAT IS AWESOME.

 

The crafting in old republic is fantastic. I like how it doesn't detract from what I am doing. PVP IS Fun. WOW pvp sucked when it first hit, and it took a couple years until it started to click. I expect Old republic to take some time to publish.

 

I think People compare old republic to WOW because maybe they are insecure and they feel one or the other is a threat, and they feel they have a need to defend their product. I don't know, I don't care. Wow is great for what iti s, and old republic is as well. Both products have a lot of polish. Both products have a lot of content, and I hope both do well. Competition is what drives the market forward.

[csward]

Actually, it's an objective review. I back everything up with in-game data. What part, in particular, did you have an issue with? For example, if I said Gigli is a terrible movie, that would also be an undeniable fact.

 

While I don't disagree with you about Gigle, your review is an opinion even if you back some things up with facts. Your review comes across as condescending, as does your attitude in your posts. The bottom line is all MMOs have issues and it will take TOR a couple years to catch up.

 

I'll tell you this, I like this games better than EQ2, Vanguard, Warhammer, FF14, LotR Online, AoC, Tabula Rasa, ect. at launch. It feels really good and while you views are valid, the aren't game-breaking, yet. It all depends how quickly Bioware can improve the game (which seems rather slowly from beta).

[Reddum]

............................

 

The only reason ToR won't die in 6 months is "Bioware" and "Star Wars." Will these two names carry the burden for a year? Two? I doubt it. But then again, I could be wrong. http://warhammeronline.com/ is still going. Don't fool yourself though. It's dead.

 

You may berate me now, but don't forget this review 1 year down the line. ToR is dead. Long live Titan?

 

Story - I think the Side Quests are the most amazing thing ever. WoW bored me so much that after the stupid amount of stupid quests I did in that stupid game I couldn't be bothered to read a single quest description in any other game. But now in TOR I actually want to do them all and feel BAD when I outlevel content! But anyway, the quests themselves, for me, are just the thing between the conversations, which are what I really want to get to

 

...

 

I was going to look at each of your points, but perhaps it's best to just say your review is worthless because it isn't your type of game from the start. You're looking at it from the perspective of someone who hates all the good stuff it has and wants it to focus on the boring stuff. (Yes, this means that I am exactly the kind of person this game was made for and I love just about EVERYTHING about it)

What I want to say is... You don't like the game because it seems it wasn't marketed for you. It's like you love Cars and hate everything else, but still, here you are: Bike Reviewer.

 

And what is wrong with you, bad mouthing companions!? They make you able to level Healers and be very, very strong while doing it. Nothing WoW... after leveling a priest you'd acquire Inner Peace because you suffered a thousand lifetimes of hell and lived.

[EkonBor]

TLDR **** wow

[dvvx]

You made the claim. Burden of proof is on you. And your opinion does not equal fact. So, basically, outside of your opinion, it cannot be proven.

 

Prove me wrong, hotshot.

 

I know the burden of proof is on me, that's why I already presented my evidence. But here we go again.

 

• There are no low level BGs (if you go in as a lvl 10 a lvl 50 demolishes you with his/her buffed abilities).
  
• World PvP is nonexistent.
  
• There is no form of competitive PvP.
  
• There are no arenas.
  
• There are no rated BGs.
  
• The resolve bar (which was supposed to prevent chain-CCing) can be exploited.
  
• CCs in general last far too long and there are too many of them.
  
• Some classes, like the IA, have no place in PvP since almost all classes can close distance and the IA cannot break it.
  

 

I can go on.

Edited December 19, 2011 by dvvx

[Tallur]

b) Bioware/EA explicitly asserted that they are going after the prime competitor (WoW).

 

Could you show me proof to this claim. I know MANY game reviewers and sites have stated this, but I can not recall one instance where Bioware came out and said they were targeting WoW.

[dvvx]

Could you show me proof to this claim. I know MANY game reviewers and sites have stated this, but I can not recall one instance where Bioware came out and said they were targeting WoW.

 

There was a quote several years back made by someone from EA afaik. I've been trying to find it to no avail, but I'm sure it will surface sooner or later. It wasn't as argumentative as I may make it out to be, but it was something to the lines of "we'll give Blizzard a run for it's money."

Edited December 19, 2011 by dvvx

[Neeseek]

I know the burden of proof is on me, that's why I already presented my evidence. But here we go again.

 

• There are no low level BGs (if you go in as a lvl 10 a lvl 50 demolishes you with his/her buffed abilities).
  
• World PvP is nonexistent.
  
• There is no form of competitive PvP.
  
• There are no arenas.
  
• There are no rated BGs.
  
• The resolve bar (which was supposed to prevent chain-CCing) can be exploited.
  
• CCs in general last far too long and there are too many of them.
  
• Some classes, like the IA, have no place in PvP since almost all classes can close distance and the IA cannot break it.
  

 

I can go on.

 

Half of the things you mentioned will be added in the future.

 

When WoW launched, it didn't have rated bgs, arenas, or even regular BGs.

 

And many classes were unbalanced at launch too, feral druids had no place in PVP, I can go on.

 

No point, you're clearly trolling anyways

[Galentor]

@OP: Have fun with your pandas and pokemon combat in the next expansion. SW TOR will be a much better game without the likes of you.

 

Bye

 

Btw, when WoW launched it didn't have any BG's at all...

Edited December 19, 2011 by Galentor

[Beleal]

OP, you're the kind of guy that gets ice cream and is pissed because it doesn't have chocolate chips aren't you?

 

Sounds like you just love you some WoW, and possibly playing it for so long has made you jaded?

[BloatedGuppy]

I know the burden of proof is on me, that's why I already presented my evidence. But here we go again.

 

• There are no low level BGs (if you go in as a lvl 10 a lvl 50 demolishes you with his/her buffed abilities).
  
• World PvP is nonexistent.
  
• There is no form of competitive PvP.
  
• There are no arenas.
  
• There are no rated BGs.
  
• The resolve bar (which was supposed to prevent chain-CCing) can be exploited.
  
• CCs in general last far too long and there are too many of them.
  
• Some classes, like the IA, have no place in PvP since almost all classes can close distance and the IA cannot break it.
  

 

I can go on.

 

Arenas and ranked BG's are competitive PvP. You're bloating your list.

 

PvP was not in WoW at release in any form save for world PvP on PvP servers, which basically amounting to "ganking".

 

Bioware is targeting WoW's player base, as is almost every MMO released in the last 5-7 years, they are not necessarily trying to "remake WoW". The number of PvE players dwarfs the number of PvP players. It is hardly surprising that they would focus on their PvE model first, and worry about the PvP model later, especially after EA's last tango with a PvP heavy MMO went the way it did.

Edited December 19, 2011 by BloatedGuppy

[Tallur]

There was a quote several years back made by someone from EA afaik. I've been trying to find it to no avail, but I'm sure it will surface sooner or later.

 

Uh-huh...

[dvvx]

Half of the things you mentioned will be added in the future.

 

When WoW launched, it didn't have rated bgs, arenas, or even regular BGs.

 

And many classes were unbalanced at launch too, feral druids had no place in PVP, I can go on.

 

No point, you're clearly trolling anyways

 

You're comparing the release of an MMO in 2004 with the release of an MMO in 2012. See a problem with that?

 

If you started a car company today, would you want your bar to be the Ford Model-T?

Edited December 19, 2011 by dvvx

[BloatedGuppy]

You're comparing the release of an MMO in 2004 with the release of an MMO in 2012. See a problem with that?

 

This is a fallacious argument. You're talking about content density. Newer products can be expected to have better graphics, more polished launches etc. They are not necessarily going to include the entire feature sets of older MMOs at launch. People have been clamoring for this since the genre first appeared, and they've been let down every single time. You'd think they'd learn.

[Beatmiser]

I know the burden of proof is on me, that's why I already presented my evidence. But here we go again.

 

• 
   
  
• Some classes, like the IA, have no place in PvP since almost all classes can close distance and the IA cannot break it.
  

 

I can go on.

 

Or you can stop there. My IA is a PvP beast.

 

Honestly, your review, your list, and your thoughts are anecdotal and based on your interest in WoW. An interest which you think many share, but is greatly conflated in your mind.

[PjPablo]

What I find interesting is the reviewer does have some positive things to say about TOR, but that isn't enough for the fanbois.

 

You guys have to realize that EVERY MMO is going to be compared to WoW as it is the most successful and has set the standard for the rest of them.

[ProphetX]

You're comparing the release of an MMO in 2004 with the release of an MMO in 2012. See a problem with that?

 

If you started a car company today, would you want your bar to be the Ford Model-T?

 

Your a pvp'er that played a story based mmo , skipped all the dialogue per your own admission and you don't like the game . I'm sorry but if your looking for WOW or Rift where you can skip the questing experience altogether and just mindlessly pvp or Run Dungeons all the way to max level without ever completing a quest why aren't you there .

 

This is not the game you are looking for , the fault is when you think your opinion is the only one that matters .

 

There is alot more to this game than your holy grail PVP which is an over rated past time . So much more to do in mmo's than pvp . But thanks for speaking for everyone .

[Cryptoling]

I regret reading this garbage. I should have stopped when I saw the words "WoW" and "Arena" at the top. I guess I only have myself to blame.

[Drallbait]

You're comparing the release of an MMO in 2004 with the release of an MMO in 2012. See a problem with that?

 

If you started a car company today, would you want your bar to be the Ford Model-T?

 

Thus why SWTOR actually has PvP, which is more than WoW had.

 

But that doesn't mean it can catch up to 8 additional years of development at release. Everyone knows that SWTOR can't have all the features that WoW does today on release. That is just a fact.

 

I realize this doesn't matter much to you, since you seem to have made it you occupation to complain about this game you have had the most insane expectations for since day 1.

[MeliaElentari]

I regret reading this garbage. I should have stopped when I saw the words "WoW" and "Arena" at the top. I guess I only have myself to blame.

 

QFT

 

and yet for some reason I'm still here.....

[Ralei]

much how Vincent Chase is Queens Boulevard, .

 

 

 

[Beatmiser]

What I find interesting is the reviewer does have some positive things to say about TOR, but that isn't enough for the fanbois.

 

I find it sad how many people equate disagreement with a flawed argument to being a Fanboy.

 

"You don't agree with me? You must be a fanboy! Derp!"

 

Most people will say the game has room for improvement. That does not mean that we have to agree with the powerfully flawed opinion on the OP (Note I am saying opinion, not review. What he did was not a review.)

[dvvx]

This is a fallacious argument. You're talking about content density. Newer products can be expected to have better graphics, more polished launches etc. They are not necessarily going to include the entire feature sets of older MMOs at launch. People have been clamoring for this since the genre first appeared, and they've been let down every single time. You'd think they'd learn.

 

I'm not sure how my argument is fallacious. I'd argue that you're being disingenuous and that you're just cherry-picking features: new MMOs SHOULD have better graphics but SHOULDN'T have rated BGs. If you're going to continue your argument, my question is why graphics over rated BGs? Where's the distinction apart from your own arbitrary judgment?

[Merex]

The game is great, but it needs a ton of work. There are some glaring feature omissions that make me feel like I'm playing WoW from 2004 with a story.