A Tale of Two Games: ToR and WoW - Review!

[yomanaaiton]

no logic? it's my train of thinking on the matter, it doesn't have to make sense to you.

 

I played wow up til about 6 months ago... i quit because i was tired of it, NOT because of this game, or any other. I just feel like Blizz doesn't care about their players enough to make lasting change, they just try to appease the local parts of their player base, to the detriment of the game. Yes, you should listen to your customers, but it's not always wise to take everything screamed about and put it in without more trial and error.

 

Blizz makes a good game, but it is so far past it's prime it's sad. like a 40 year old stripper.

 

and what facts? I said a fpsmmo wouldn't have the mass appeal of "normal" mmos. plus aren't their like 4 fpsmmos coming out? the glut will likely either kill them all or the blizz zombies will support LOLtitanLOL (egotistical name), or the best will rise to the top... time will tell. Blizz doesn't necessarily make the best games, just the easiest to get into therefore more "inflated" numbers than is realistic. They said themselves those numbers include all accounts (excluding non active) so free ones, trials, etc

 

I totally agree with you, it's just that you didn't have any argument in the previous post, lol, it was obvious that you're just bored of WoW (as am I), but that's no reason to say the game is bad! In fact, looking back, I think I enjoyed the game very much, even if it got old (which game doesn't get old anyway?)

 

Anyway, I don't really agree with your FPS comment, I mean, just take a look at the market. Call of Duty sells SIGNIFICANTLY more than Mass Effect or Dragon Age, for instance, and Mass Effect also took a lot more time to produce and such. FPS games are very popular right now.

 

And yes, there might be other first person MMOs around but I've never seen any, other than Darkfall Online, which has too low production values to do anything, that are actually real MMOs and not just shooters with more than standard players. It's just like regular MMOs back in the day. Nobody thought they would have mass appeal, and it was considered the most niche video game market, until Blizzard came and proved everyone wrong.

 

It can and will happen again. Will Blizzard do it? I don't know.

[Striker]

All I'm saying is it's hard to not compare them simply because if SWTOR isn't as good or atleast nearly as good it will fail. This is regardless of the fact that SWTOR is new. People won't wait around 8 years to get a game that is as "polished" as WOW. They'll play WoW, or some other game that they decide is "polished." I'm not flaming SWTOR....thus far I think it is an enjoyable game. Only time will tell if it will last.

 

SWTOR is just as polished as WoW. It is intentionally lacking some of the terrible features WoW has like dungeonfinder and arena, but that is not due to a lack of polish. If people want to play world of dungeongrind then go do it. Don't come over to SWTOR and try to ruin it with demanding that garbage.

[WickedDjinn]

The comparisons do get silly. No game can kill wow, wow can only kill itself.

 

This has little to do with game quality and everything to do with basic human nature. This game could be vastly superior to Warcraft on Every conceivable way and still not make a dent.

 

People will leave wow based on only two things. Do they like Starwars more than the universe created? And are they simply tired of WoW in general. If people are satisfied with WoW nothing will peel them away.

 

Nothing will ever just crush something the size of WoW out of nowhere.

[Mysry]

All I'm saying is it's hard to not compare them simply because if SWTOR isn't as good or atleast nearly as good it will fail. This is regardless of the fact that SWTOR is new. People won't wait around 8 years to get a game that is as "polished" as WOW. They'll play WoW, or some other game that they decide is "polished." I'm not flaming SWTOR....thus far I think it is an enjoyable game. Only time will tell if it will last.

 

Of course you are not flaming SWTOR, and it is enjoyable....but the fact is if we don't give the game the ZOMG it's the best ever WoWkiller, WoW fanboys suck treatment then we get flamed for being objective and realistic.

 

I have had my doubts about SWTOR since I started in beta. The fact that BW really did tell us that as testers not employed by them our opinions and feedback are worth nothing was what made me start to doubt they had a clue what they were doing in the first place.

[kennedybz]

SWTOR is just as polished as WoW. It is intentionally lacking some of the terrible features WoW has like dungeonfinder and arena, but that is not due to a lack of polish. If people want to play world of dungeongrind then go do it. Don't come over to SWTOR and try to ruin it with demanding that garbage.

 

I dunno man...it seems that the main reason people don't want to compare it to WoW is because it's not as polished. Their words, not mine.

[Kestrelco]

Your review doesn't matter. If someone is enjoying the game they don't care, and if they're not - they don't care.

 

I'm having a good time. I do have concerns:

 

1) I think it's too easy to level

2) I think our skills are over-powered.

3) I would like the option of having companions craft - so that I can do some things myself.

4) An appearance tab would be nice

5) the Trade Market needs a simple 'search' feature. It's difficult finding things when you don't know where to search. Simply being able to type in something would be great. Also - gear needs to be sorted out by slot. Having to wade through 24 pages of gear when all you want is gloves is a nuisance.

 

There may be other niggling issues, but frankly - I'm having fun. Flashpoints are terrific and I'm looking forward to some of the harder operations. Rewards are crazy good and common to the point I'd almost say they're *too* common. It wrecks some of the crafting and makes it harder to earn money selling them (for those who like the monetary parts of games).

 

I will subscribe and I anticipate playing the game for some time. I do not expect it to provide me with WoW's 7 years of content on release. I know at some point I will be waiting on new content, but if it lives up to the depth of story etc in the release I will wait patiently. Given the track record of the companies involved, I'm willing to cut them some slack on initial lapses and hold some faith in their ability to tweak the game as needed. I don't want easy button, and I don't want so ridiculously hard you feel like you've been drafted into an unpleasant job. I think they've struck a nice balance that needs some fine tuning. I'm willing to allow them time for that.

[Mysry]

I dunno man...it seems that the main reason people don't want to compare it to WoW is because it's not as polished. Their words, not mine.

 

Exactly, 3+years in development on a 5 year old concept means there is no reason for it to not be more polished than it is.

[Ruwin]

I love how the OP states this as basic fact when it is actually his OPINION. So OP thats fine if you don't like it ...don't play it. I love this game and I see plenty of others that do as well.

 

Be on your way, or make a game yourself seeing as you know exactly what to put in a game. I am just tired of people posting all the doom in these forums. Why on gods green earth if you don't like it would you waste even a second more of your time on it by coming here and posting?

 

Like a game...play it, don't like a game ...don't play it seems pretty simple to me.

 

See you.

 

[Conkerkid]

My WoW review!

 

Graphics!

WoW has BAD graphics! Even when it came out in 2004, its graphics were below average. Now they're way below average!.

 

Story!

 

Some stories are good, some are like OMG! Example are Questionable elements Like The Draeni crash landing a spaceship that blood elves built? If someone can build a spaceship, why are they still fighting with swords and daggers? huh, huh??!? OP? HUH?

 

Class Balance!

 

HAHAHA!! all i have to say is "Flavor of the Month" they nerf or buff whoever they want that month. there is no class balance.

Blizzard changes features based on player demands without no scientific research, they change their own design plans without facts.

 

End Game play

LFR is the worst idea EVER. can you defend LFR?!? OP?! i wanna hear it.

 

I can go on and on....

This is the worst review I've ever read. I completely agree with the op right now, and the only reason I'm not playing TOR right now is because I'm stuck on a loading screen. Now this would be fine if my computer was a piece of crap, but it isn't. I run the game on its highest settings at 60 frames per second, and boast an average of 40ms latency, so there's no reason for this issue. I also find the downtime tonight, really 4:00pm over here, to be the dumbest, hugest lie of all. I pre-ordered so I could play early, not so i could sit through an abnormally long downtime. In reality, my downtime has been all day, as I haven't been able to play for that long. Thanks BioWare! I'll stick with WoW, thank you very much.

 

Graphics!

WoW has BAD graphics! Even when it came out in 2004, its graphics were below average. Now they're way below average!.

The graphics weren't below average in 2004, and they aren't below average now. As I said earlier, I can run TOR at its highest settings at 60fps, while I can run WoW at its highest settings at 120fps. First off, there are loads more settings you can change in WoW than in TOR, plus, view distance is an essential, as is render distance. Neither of which can be edited within TOR's settings. World of Warcraft runs on DX11... What does TOR run on? World of Warcraft's graphics are amazing, optimized well, and have you seen the water!? I notice absolutely no pop-ins while playing WoW, and this is amazing considering 300%+ movements speed on flying mounts.

 

Then there's TOR, where I'm noticing constant pop-ins, frame drops, and glitches during cutscenes (why aren't these skippable!?) that make the game nearly unplayable. I don't care if WoW had 7+ years to improve, it was fantastic for what it was when it was released, where as TOR should be able to surpass it easily. BioWare focused far too much on cutscenes and story to provide us with a playable game. I mean, it's a fantastic movie and all, but where's my $15 a month going towards exactly?

 

Story!

 

Some stories are good, some are like OMG! Example are Questionable elements Like The Draeni crash landing a spaceship that blood elves built? If someone can build a spaceship, why are they still fighting with swords and daggers? huh, huh??!? OP? HUH?

They're not all fighting with swords and daggers? Hunters have guns, and in just about every instance there are robots, rockets, and all sorts of stuff they could be using. But tell me this, why does it seem that no technological advancements have been made in the 3,500 years that have passed between TOR and the Star Wars films? If anything, the films seem to have less technology than in TOR. Blizzard didn't waste all their time on cutscenes and amazing storylines. They focused their time on playability, something BioWare could use in TOR.

 

Class Balance!

 

HAHAHA!! all i have to say is "Flavor of the Month" they nerf or buff whoever they want that month. there is no class balance.

Blizzard changes features based on player demands without no scientific research, they change their own design plans without facts.

WHAT!? ARE YOU SERIOUS!? You're going to be the kid who claims anybody who can kill you is OP, aren't you? Okay then, stick with just four classes in TOR, that's just fantastic. I ran a group mission last night on TOR, and had no idea what stats I needed other than the fact that I could wear medium armor. BioWare hasn't made it apparent what the player needs before they start picking up various pieces of equipment. Talk about dropping players off in the middle of nowhere without a compass.

 

Also, all you're saying basically is that Blizzard maintains their game while BioWare sits aside raking in the dough.

 

End Game play

LFR is the worst idea EVER. can you defend LFR?!? OP?! i wanna hear it.

Really? Blizzard practically spews out brand new end game content every couple months and you're complaining about a hidden feature that nobody uses? TOR doesn't even have a group finder you moron! Who's side are you on!?

[pantalaimona]

This guy is... "note to self: its illegal to kill people"

 

1. story

Ofc there is story! Finnaly! WoW sucks there! On any lvl.

Bonus quests insult you and whole WoW doesnt??

 

2. combat

Lack of auto attack bothers you? And you are in one of the top guilds in WoW? And you dont see why I am laughing at you?

 

3. PVE and lvling

a) you reached lvl 50 in what, 3 days? you cant say a single word about lvling...

b) pve content? how many raids you did up to now in SWTOR?

 

4. PVP

and WoW is master in pvp... really...

 

5. Companions

You really dont know what are you talking about, arent you?

 

DOA

WoW will die. If TOR doesnt kill it, it will comite suicide. And as someone already said, WoW had 7 years to be polished, and they still failed in that. TOR is comming out tomorrow and it smashed WOW in any sence...

[MeliaElentari]

My best mate is a WoW fanboy and has been for 6 years.

 

We convinced him to preorder ToR, he started playing at the weekend and hasn't stopped talking about it since, he loves it, to the point where he's cancelled his WoW sub.

 

I loved WoW, I loved the gameplay, the lore, everything. Then I got bored.

 

The things that make an MMO great are not arenas or LFG tools, it's community and the WoW community is dying.

 

I don't want to spam the same 2/3 heroics all day for points/badgers and gear score points with people I don't know, will never see again and honesty never care about. I want to play with friends, have a laugh and create memories as good as my TBC ones.

 

To the OP: WoW was broken as hell on release and is clearly not "working as intended" right now.

[Conkerkid]

Finally I'm able to play. I'm honestly considering buying the game BioWare, but these constant downtimes and glitches are really directing me back toward other MMOs. Also, I find the lack of a swimming animation disturbing. Was it really that much easier to just make all the water in the game waste deep? Seriously?

[Striker]

I dunno man...it seems that the main reason people don't want to compare it to WoW is because it's not as polished. Their words, not mine.

 

A lot of people are confusing polish with features they think they need because they are lazy or never experienced a MMO before WoW during wotlk. There are some things that need polished for sure as I have seen companions bug out numerous times and just be laying on the ground(although still dealing damage). And I get stuck autorunning at times in class quests.

 

But similar stuff still happens in WoW while being 7 years old. Last 4 raids our DPS was gimped because hunter pets disappear, randomly die, or can't attack raid bosses on certain encounters

 

 

Bugs appear to occur more in SWTOR at this point because people are playing it a lot more versus other MMOs. I put in around 55 hours in SW:TOR since tuesday and only 6 in WoW. But not once has a bug been game breaking for me in SWTOR this week. Whereas in WoW bad pathing with pets has contributed to hours of wipes.

[Tenebruseye]

I played WoW from release, and I am certainly a fanboy (or at least was until midway through wotlk, after which each patch improved the ui and the metagame but damaged, or dumbed down, the gameplay itself).

 

I have two things to say.

 

(1) So far, TOR has some issues to work through and probably should have started with many of WoW's later features (some of which the op mentioned). It is going to have to add them eventually, so they ARE hurting themselves by sending out an embryonic product at release. Provided they get them in soon enough, TOR will be fine and will compete with the top tier mmos. I have enjoyed everything I've done in TOR so far, and the main issues I see will (unless Bioware developers are insane) be fixed soon enough. It is a fantastic game.

 

(2) Those of you that love TOR and hate WoW, have you ever even played WoW? Sure, leveling/questing is quite a bit different, but that is a relatively tiny part of any mmo. Nearly everything else is so close to WoW that any player of both can and does regularly refer to each component of TOR by its WoW name. (Sure, WoW took a lot from the mmos before it...no need to gripe about that now.) My main in WoW was a healing priest; in TOR I am playing a healing sorceror. Holy ****, I've never seen any of these abilities or talents before!!! Get over yourselves.

[Baizak]

Dragon Age 2 suggests otherwise.

 

I enjoyed Dragon age 2.

[Mysry]

This guy is... "note to self: its illegal to kill people"

 

1. story

Ofc there is story! Finnaly! WoW sucks there! On any lvl.

Bonus quests insult you and whole WoW doesnt??

 

2. combat

Lack of auto attack bothers you? And you are in one of the top guilds in WoW? And you dont see why I am laughing at you?

 

3. PVE and lvling

a) you reached lvl 50 in what, 3 days? you cant say a single word about lvling...

b) pve content? how many raids you did up to now in SWTOR?

 

4. PVP

and WoW is master in pvp... really...

 

5. Companions

You really dont know what are you talking about, arent you?

 

DOA

WoW will die. If TOR doesnt kill it, it will comite suicide. And as someone already said, WoW had 7 years to be polished, and they still failed in that. TOR is comming out tomorrow and it smashed WOW in any sence...

 

Of course WoW will die, but not before this game goes F2P.

[Draksen]

WoW = ugly graphics + poor and ugly animations

At least now, go in WoW if you still can and look by yourself, it's horrid!

 

WoW has a few nice features that could be added to Tor, I'm sure they'll have them in soon enough anyway.

Most of what someone above called "systems" in WoW are in fact real content features, added through patches and expansions.

 

But apart from graphics, the whole theme of the game is at least for me much more enjoyable in ToR than WoW.

 

Bored to death of elves and orcs, and kung-fu pandas is the final nail in the coffin.

 

As it is now, 80-90% of the WoW's features are already in ToR. A few patches and it'll be 100%. Patience little padawan.

[Fdzzaigl]

I read your name and knew what your conclusion would be, upon further review of your review, I was proven right.

 

What does that say about you?

[Mysry]

My best mate is a WoW fanboy and has been for 6 years.

 

We convinced him to preorder ToR, he started playing at the weekend and hasn't stopped talking about it since, he loves it, to the point where he's cancelled his WoW sub.

 

I loved WoW, I loved the gameplay, the lore, everything. Then I got bored.

 

The things that make an MMO great are not arenas or LFG tools, it's community and the WoW community is dying.

 

I don't want to spam the same 2/3 heroics all day for points/badgers and gear score points with people I don't know, will never see again and honesty never care about. I want to play with friends, have a laugh and create memories as good as my TBC ones.

 

To the OP: WoW was broken as hell on release and is clearly not "working as intended" right now.

 

Correct community is what makes an MMO, and while WoW's is in decline this community will eat itself alive. And this game is broken on release and probably will not be working as intended 6 years later either.

[Enan]

To long did not read. Let me summarize "Waaaaaaaah I need to go back to Wow"

[Sonata_Xero]

Funny thing, both games are enjoyable and both games are complemented in their design very well by the mechanics that the developers use in their respective games.

 

At the end of the day, both TOR and WoW are fun games and really, shouldn't that be enough? If you like the concept of TOR and the mechanics it uses, then play TOR. If you like WoW's concept and core gameplay, then play WoW.

[NarroSienar]

I started playing MMO's with the public beta of Ultima Online back in September of 1997. As far as I am concerned (and this is ONLY my opinion)... no MMO released in the US since Ultima Online has been better in overall gameplay. Some have introduced new systems and game mechanics that were good and sometimes even revolutionary. Some were grand after just a few months and then tapered off while others were a slow progression of improvement. BUT none have ever captured the total experience to me that the first 3 years of Ultima Online were.

 

DAoC, SWG, WoW all had something to offer that set them apart slightly in ways... yet were weak in other areas. There is no perfect way to do everything that will please everyone with 100% effectiveness. That's not going to happen.

 

SWTOR has enough of a foundation to show lots of promise out of the gate. Is it ground breaking? In some aspects, maybe. BUT with MMOs there is not perfection out of the gate. The best that any MMO can hope for at release is to start with a large base of subscribers and not have any serious hickups that keep the initial subscribers from feeling cheated for the initial investment. After that, it's all up to making sure all the other hickups and expansions do not radically break the game of nerf too many users for more than a few days at most.

 

WoW is certainly the most celebrated MMO having the subscibers it's held for 7+ years. It's an achievement that all MMOs strive for as the upper tier of success. But even an MMO that had half or third of the subscribers as WoW over a 5+ year period would certainly be considered successful.

 

I enjoyed The first three years of Ultima Online and the first two years of SW Galaxies more than any other MMO of the 6 or 7 I've played for longer than 6 months. Mostly because they tried to break the mold of what was out there at the time AND they maintained FUN in the game without completely closing the door on what you could attempt.

 

SWTOR is trying to break the mold too, but it's safe that they would attempt baby steps. You can't totally turn the MMO "standard" upside down. There is a reason to look at the things that have been successful prior. AND no MMO is going to fly out of the box on release day with depth as deep as the most successful MMO of all-time had after even it's first year or two. The first 6 to 12 months of evolution for SWTOR will provide a better picture for the overall "saga" that this game will have.

 

I plan on hanging on and enjoying the ride for at least the first year from what I have seen in just a few short days of early game access. It's obvious that LucasArts really wants to make sure that the parts of SWG that went wrong do not happen again. And they've assembled a great team to do it. I don't claim to know where this game will be in a year, but it shows promise and that's all ANYONE can really expect of any MMO. Because no one really knows. You can't compare apples to apple seeds. AND no one can see into the future far enough to know what might go wrong, what external (or internal) issues might effect development, or how luck or bad timing or "suits" not getting on the same page as coders can sometimes get in the way of a MMO's progression.

 

We can all speculate. BUT they are really just guesses.

Edited December 19, 2011 by NarroSienar

[Heavens_Night]

Seriously, WoW has been out for 7 years. How about people stop comparing them, not a bright idea.

 

I'm sorry but I can't that your review seriously at all (OP), and when you said the game 'doesn't have a chance' I just actually laughed out loud, I mean, are you high or what? You're 'one of those people' that say the same things about mmo's when they launch, I speculate you said the same about Rift too, and that is doing just fine.

 

Personally I haven't stopped playing this game since my entry into early play time and I love it. Sure it has it's problems but christ it's JUST launched. I wanted so much for a AAA+++ mmo that took me away from WoW and now I have it.

 

I hope BioWare don't drop the ball on patches and content and as long as they don't this game really could and will go very far and I hope it does, it's great.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Heavens_Night

[tbullough]

clearly you and I are not playing the same game.

 

Happy christmas

[Morcova]

I have had my doubts about SWTOR since I started in beta. The fact that BW really did tell us that as testers not employed by them our opinions and feedback are worth nothing was what made me start to doubt they had a clue what they were doing in the first place.

 

Hahaha! What? Seriously? Is that a joke? They really said that?

 

That explains why I've seen screencaps of threads where people were asking for pretty basic mmo improvements that never made it into the game.